Social Disciples of Dark Samus

[Reila]

It is the final boss of the most popular Metroid Prime game. Yeah, it is not as iconic as Ridley or Samus herself, but it is iconic.

 

[Octavium]

I found this beauty today:

Spoiler

To be completely honest, even though she's going to play very similar to Samus, I'm excited for Dark Samus, animations look great and I'm hoping she'll be a little bit faster than regular Samus.

Also yes, we have more villains!

 

[DarkFalcon]

Her movement being as it should despite her being an echo is what made me ok with it. I didn't expect her despite what other's have said so the fact I got her even as an echo made me happy. I've argued why she wouldn't work as an echo before. While I still think she deserves to be unique, they did a fantastic job changing some of her animations to reflect her character.

 

[WertQuadNine]

I found this beauty today:

Spoiler

View attachment 156671

I'd love a taunt that completely deforms like that

 

[Metallinatus]

I agree that Metroid Prime is only iconic as a series, not as a character. For instance, as someone who played the series very late, I knew of Dark Samus years before I knew Metroid Prime's final boss was.... Metroid Prime.

Btw, I am pulling out this old Miiverse screenshot to say that I totally predicted Smash Ultimate:

I must say that irks me, though, to have Dark Samus but also have Other M Samus instead of MP Samus....

 

[Garo]

I found this beauty today:

Spoiler

View attachment 156671

Wow, why haven't I seen that concept in fan art before? The visor just morphing into a mouth is super creepy. I feel that's a concept they could've actually used if DS had absorbed life force like Metroids instead of radiation.

 

[UltimateWario]

I’ve come to terms with Dark Samus being an Echo, I guess. The full animation overhaul is nice, even if it feels a bit weird on her. I have two niggles that my crusty black heart won’t let go of because no fun allowed.

1. Up B should’ve had a different animation. It can have the exact same frame data but Dark Sammy never uses the Screw Attack and it looks fantastically weird on her, especially the helpless animation. This one is less egregious but I don’t think it looks too great.

2. Morph Ball Bombs. Why are her Missiles organic but her Morph Ball Bombs are just regular bombs? This one’s the worse of the two, not even counting that Dark never uses them, but because it seems inconsistent with other effects on the character. Just having it be a throbbing Phazon pustule would’ve double-fold eliminated both the inconsistency and the fact that she never uses them.

But alas, we have what we have. I’d complain about Chrom getting to borrow a move and her not but I think I’ve whined enough on the subject. At the very least she looks great, the only thing I’d change is bringing back the skeleton toes and the Morph Ball eye.

 

[Diem]

I agree that Metroid Prime is only iconic as a series, not as a character. For instance, as someone who played the series very late, I knew of Dark Samus years before I knew Metroid Prime's final boss was.... Metroid Prime.

Btw, I am pulling out this old Miiverse screenshot to say that I totally predicted Smash Ultimate:
View attachment 156679

I must say that irks me, though, to have Dark Samus but also have Other M Samus instead of MP Samus....

I owned and played Metroid Prime since 2003, but I never went and finished it until 2014 or 2015. I mean, I was only 6-7 years old when I played it the first time. I never made it to Flaahgra until the playthrough where I finished the game. But I still got Metroid Prime 2 right around when it released, and I at least made it to Torvus Bog there. Which means I got to Dark Samus's first battle, and that alone was enough to get me super hyped for the character. Though at the time I had no idea what she was. I thought she was a dark version of Samus created when she arrived on Dark Aether, because of her name. Retro kind of dropped the ball on her name; they could've gotten more creative.

We should've at least gotten the suit from Samus Returns. If Link can get his Champion's Tunic, and Mario can get his wedding outfit, Samus should get her new look as well.

 

[meleebrawler]

I owned and played Metroid Prime since 2003, but I never went and finished it until 2014 or 2015. I mean, I was only 6-7 years old when I played it the first time. I never made it to Flaahgra until the playthrough where I finished the game. But I still got Metroid Prime 2 right around when it released, and I at least made it to Torvus Bog there. Which means I got to Dark Samus's first battle, and that alone was enough to get me super hyped for the character. Though at the time I had no idea what she was. I thought she was a dark version of Samus created when she arrived on Dark Aether, because of her name. Retro kind of dropped the ball on her name; they could've gotten more creative.

We should've at least gotten the suit from Samus Returns. If Link can get his Champion's Tunic, and Mario can get his wedding outfit, Samus should get her new look as well.

The name felt like a deliberate false lead. The first encounter makes you believe Dark Samus might be in league with the Ing of Dark Aether since they seem to ignore her, even if there's "something" different about her compared to them (namely her ability to travel freely in the light). A bit later you find that she has been raiding the pirate's Phazon for quite some time, putting her in clear opposition with them. Later still you see what appears to be another of her raids on them, except closer inspection reveals they're Dark pirates, proving she isn't affiliated with the Ing after all. This all makes you question just what she really wants other than Phazon in the short-term and adds to her mystery. Only those who 100% Prime 1 have a clue to her origins, and even that connection isn't really obvious until the very end (incidentally the big lasers she fires in that fight are the closest thing to a Zero Laser we've ever seen).

I've noticed her usmash does electric damage while her fair does blue flame (aura?) damage instead, despite both ostensibly being Phazon energy. Guess it's to show Phazon's chaotic, volatile nature.

 

[Metallinatus]

They should have named her Shadow, Shadow the Aranhog.

 

[MysticKnives]

I found this beauty today:

Spoiler

View attachment 156671

To be completely honest, even though she's going to play very similar to Samus, I'm excited for Dark Samus, animations look great and I'm hoping she'll be a little bit faster than regular Samus.

Also yes, we have more villains!

DS here gives me a very Venom feel to it. Sakurai sold me on Dark Samus. I'll be playing DS myself.

 

[BlazGreen]

Some good news, guys. ESAM discovered that Dark Samus has a regular roll animation instead of Samus' craptastic roll. It also appears that her dash attack launches at a more favourable angle for combos and her down throw seems to combo into her up smash.

 

[Diem]

Some good news, guys. ESAM discovered that Dark Samus has a regular roll animation instead of Samus' craptastic roll. It also appears that her dash attack launches at a more favourable angle for combos and her down throw seems to combo into her up smash.

Yeah, she has a dodge instead of a roll. And the animation is awesome for it, too. It's a very lackadaisical float in a direction, kind of like her dash attack.

It fits better for Dark Samus, given how evasive she is in combat. She floats and dodges all around the arena instead of rolling. She only ever goes into morph ball form for her boost attack. It makes sense that she'd have a faster, better dodge.

 

[meleebrawler]

Did anyone even count the freaking frames of that roll? It could be just as slow as Samus's (which itself is faster now, to be fair), I'm tired of people assuming Samus's is slow because she morph balls, it makes no sense!!!

 

[NocturnalQuill]

It appears to be much faster, although we don't have detailed frame data yet. It could very well be as slow as Samus' but what we've seen looks promising

 

[Diem]

Samus's roll is the longest of all the fighters because of the Morph Ball transformation. The fact that Dark Samus doesn't go into Morph Ball mode means that her roll might not be as long, and thus faster. I looked closely, and the one bit we have of Dark Samus dodging is against a ledge, so the full length is cut shorter. It's possible that their roles are the same distance and duration. It'd be odd if that was the case, given the animation difference.

Also, some of the criteria for Echo Fighters we had before from Bill Trinen were broken with Chrom and Dark Samus. So while they won't be drastically different, they can be more different than we were led to believe by their statements and Dark Pit/Lucina. Dark Samus especially has all unique animations, so it could be possible that her dodge is different to match.

 

[meleebrawler]

Samus's roll is the longest of all the fighters because of the Morph Ball transformation. The fact that Dark Samus doesn't go into Morph Ball mode means that her roll might not be as long, and thus faster. I looked closely, and the one bit we have of Dark Samus dodging is against a ledge, so the full length is cut shorter. It's possible that their roles are the same distance and duration. It'd be odd if that was the case, given the animation difference.

Also, some of the criteria for Echo Fighters we had before from Bill Trinen were broken with Chrom and Dark Samus. So while they won't be drastically different, they can be more different than we were led to believe by their statements and Dark Pit/Lucina. Dark Samus especially has all unique animations, so it could be possible that her dodge is different to match.

If Dark Samus has the exact same fall speed as Samus, I don't see why they would arbitrarily give her a better roll. One echo rule that has yet to be broken is that their non-attack attributes are indeed almost exactly the same as their counterparts (only Lucina has a very minute height difference).

 

[NocturnalQuill]

If Dark Samus has the exact same fall speed as Samus, I don't see why they would arbitrarily give her a better roll. One echo rule that has yet to be broken is that their non-attack attributes are indeed almost exactly the same as their counterparts (only Lucina has a very minute height difference).

Prior to the direct, it was a rule that they had to have identical or at least extremely similar specials. Chrom shattered that rule. "Echo fighter" seems to be a flexible label applied to any clone from Smash 4 or later.

 

[Metallinatus]

Since we're talking about Samus' clonises, a little known fact is that Falcon was a semi-clone at first. He used her base model and even had some of her moves in Smash 64 (he still has her Jab 1, Dash Attack and Tilts to this day), he was one of the last minute additions that wouldn't have made it in if he couldn't be based on another character to cut time. That also means Ganondorf was a clone of a clone before Chrom. Anyway, back to Dark Samus.

 

[Diem]

Prior to the direct, it was a rule that they had to have identical or at least extremely similar specials. Chrom shattered that rule. "Echo fighter" seems to be a flexible label applied to any clone from Smash 4 or later.

Not only that, but it was a rule that they had to have the same animations. That's why some people were thinking that Dark Samus would either be wrong or impossible, because Samus's animations on her wouldn't make sense for Dark Samus. However, Daisy has some new animations, so that point wasn't completely true. And now Dark Samus is animated almost completely differently, so that means that the only real rule we know of for sure is that Echo Fighters can't have unique attacks.

The thing is, Dark Pit and Lucina were characters that started out as alternate costumes for Pit and Marth, but were quickly made into different fighters instead. It happened in the same way that clones were made in the past. However, Daisy, Richter, Chrom, and Dark Samus were all planned as Echo Fighters from the beginning, so that means that more effort is going into them than Lucina and Dark Pit. Hell, Dark Samus might've gotten the most effort out of all of them, given how drastically different her model and animations are. It's shocking.

100th post in the thread! Here's to many more.

To celebrate, here's something I found:

The Dark Samus fanart is going to be glorious. Not a whole lot of good fanart of her exists. A lot of it is just weird unarmored versions of her, despite the fact that her armor is her body. I'm sure we'll get more stupid "Zero Suit Dark Samus" art now that she's in Smash, but at least we'll get the good stuff, too.

Edit: Here we go.

 

[meleebrawler]

How exactly does the Morph Ball relate to the speed of a roll? Could it not be as quick as a normal one if animated quicker? Look at dodge staling. Even though their animations don't change they become slower anyway. I certainly don't see anyone else turning into balls to explain their rolls getting slower.

 

[Crystanium]

Some good news, guys. ESAM discovered that Dark Samus has a regular roll animation instead of Samus' craptastic roll. It also appears that her dash attack launches at a more favourable angle for combos and her down throw seems to combo into her up smash.

ESAM wasn't the only one, and I was talking about Dark Samus' dash attack being more like Samus' dash attack from SSB4 before ESAM made that video. Check some of my posts around the room.

Did anyone even count the freaking frames of that roll? It could be just as slow as Samus's (which itself is faster now, to be fair), I'm tired of people assuming Samus's is slow because she morph balls, it makes no sense!!!

I ended up with 42 frames for Dark Samus' roll. Samus' roll in SSBU from the Samus versus Ridley battle from the 2018 invitational is 38 frames. It appears to have a 10.53% increase in frames on the second roll, however, making Samus' second roll 42 frames. Now, consider in the video that Dark Samus air-dodged first before rolling. It would appear then that the dodging mechanic includes dodge, air-dodge, and rolling as all one and the same, as ZeRo has suspected. This means Dark Samus' roll may just be the same as Samus' roll in terms of frames. It just looks different.

 

[meleebrawler]

Dark Super Missile:

I don't know whether to laugh or be freaked out by that firing pose.

 

[Crystanium]

Dark Super Missile:

I don't know whether to laugh or be freaked out by that firing pose.

It's confirmed. Dark Samus shoots the wooden rocket ship from the comic book series, Saga. (I love that comic book series.) I wonder what Dark Samus looks like if we saw her at a normal angle.

 

[Shog]

Tentacle Cannon? Am I missing something?

 

[meleebrawler]

Tentacle Cannon? Am I missing something?

Phazon "tendrils" are a common occurence in areas of high Phazon activity. Nice little detail.

 

[Crystanium]

 

[Pkjoan]

Don't know if you guys noticed but Dark Samus' Morph Ball Bombs send her sideways while Samus' send her upwards. Check DS character video on the website.

 

[Crystanium]

Don't know if you guys noticed but Dark Samus' Morph Ball Bombs send her sideways while Samus' send her upwards. Check DS character video on the website.

I'm kind of iffy on that. Dark Samus moves over a bit before the bomb explodes. You can do this with Samus.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm kind of iffy on that. Dark Samus moves over a bit before the bomb explodes. You can do this with Samus.

Yes you can get horizontal momentum with Samus's bombs, but not to this degree. On the other hand Dark Samus doesn't seem to go as high. If only we knew if Dark Samus could do a straight bomb jump to compare...

 

[Diem]

So, preliminary reports indicate that Dark Samus and Samus have functionally the same roll.

They appear to be the same length. Though we need better footage, or maybe a direct comparison, before we can say for sure.

I think it's cool either way. If Dark Samus has a really long roll with that animation, it'd still be really unique for her character.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I wish her final smash was Dark Samus transforming into her Metroid Prime form instead of a cloned Samus final smash. Oh well.

That or summoning a Leviathan meteor to crash on the stage, but gotta take what you can get.

Do love how a lot of the fan art for her now has been pretty Venom inspired, even if SA-X's monster form kinda had it first.

 

[Aetheri]

Been going over some of the footage of Dark Samus (because I'm obsessive like that) and was looking at her taunts.

Taunt 1-seen when Dark Samus and Meta Ridley are playing monkey in the middle with Samus. She takes an upright stance holding her arm cannon while glowing with Phazon.

Taunt 2-When Dark Samus and Samus are comparing Super Missles. She crouches while holding her arm cannon.

Taunt 3-During the 30 sec character trailer on the website. Glows phazon while twirling on the spot.

For Taunt 2, I find it a little curious that she turns around while doing the taunt. Now I'm not sure if it's part of the taunt to turn around or perhaps it could be possible that like Captain Falcon's "Show Me Your Moves" taunt she could adopt a different pose while using the taunt. I think Pichu had something similar back in melee.
For Taunt 1, she's facing right but for Taunt 2, she turns to the left first before taunting, even though she was facing Samus to the right beforehand. Both taunts she grabs her arm cannon so they are similar in a sense.
So Taunt 1 and 2 could be the same taunt just with different poses depending on which way she faces.

Which means we could still have yet to see her third taunt. You know what that means!

Very likely it could be used in a victory screen as well.

 

[PlasmaSnow12]

Having obsessively watched the trailers for her over and over again, I've noticed that her back is facing the camera when she looks left, so thats probably why the taunt is in a different direction.
You can see that at 18 seconds in the lil character vid she has on the website.
I really hope we get the laugh.

 

[DarkFalcon]

It'd definitely be a shame if we didn't get the laugh. Doesn't look like she has it as a taunt, so maybe a victory screen? Would be a bit disappointed if not, but still a bit shocked she's even in the game.

 

[Varia31]

Something I've noticed about the mini-trailers for the characters on the website is that you never hear any of the character's voices. Only sound effects. So maybe the "spinning and glowing" taunt will have the laugh? And if not... well... yeah, it needs to at least be part of a victory pose.

 

[Aetheri]

Found this...

Use at your own risk.

 

[smashingDoug]

Probably alone on this but I wanted the prime 2 look. Hope it’s an alt

 

[Diem]

Something I've noticed about the mini-trailers for the characters on the website is that you never hear any of the character's voices. Only sound effects. So maybe the "spinning and glowing" taunt will have the laugh? And if not... well... yeah, it needs to at least be part of a victory pose.

Probably alone on this but I wanted the prime 2 look. Hope it’s an alt

I'm hopeful the laugh will be in the game, but I'm doubtful about a Prime 2 costume. If Samus can't even get one, no way Dark Samus is.

Thankfully, the laugh and costume are two things that mod support could easily remedy. And with how much more popular this game is going to be, I'm sure the modding scene will be much more active than on the Wii U.

What mod support can't quite remedy is whether or not the character herself is in the game. The model, slot, balancing, and animations are all much harder to work on. So regardless of the extra frills, we got all the most important stuff.

 

[smashingDoug]

I'm hopeful the laugh will be in the game, but I'm doubtful about a Prime 2 costume. If Samus can't even get one, no way Dark Samus is.

Thankfully, the laugh and costume are two things that mod support could easily remedy. And with how much more popular this game is going to be, I'm sure the modding scene will be much more active than on the Wii U.

How’s the switch modding scene like? Any progress