Social Disciples of Dark Samus

[GunBlaze]

Seeing her as Echo breaks my heart...

But regardless, I welcome our Phazon overlord.

 

[Diem]

Her weight/air physics has been a question of mine for a while, too. On the one hand, she does float around and generally seems lighter. On the other, she crashes through walls and generators like they're cardboard.

In the end, making her lighter/floatier makes more sense. Her ability to plow through things is probably more to do with channeling Phazon energy than her actual physical weight. She's got to be lighter than Samus to float casually and store so much Phazon.

 

[BlazGreen]

I'm loving the unique animations like the spot dodge and idle pose. I rarely played Samus in the past but Dark Samus actually looks pretty cool

 

[GunBlaze]

There was one part in the presentation where they showed what seemed to be Dark Samus' helpless falling animation after a Screw Attack, with Kirby falling next to her. Now this might be nothing, but I thought maybe that could hint at her being a tad floatier than Samus. With Chrom blurring the line of how echos can differ and the only official statement being "They're each slightly different than the fighters they're based on", do you think this could be possible?

Her weight/air physics has been a question of mine for a while, too. On the one hand, she does float around and generally seems lighter. On the other, she crashes through walls and generators like they're cardboard.

In the end, making her lighter/floatier makes more sense. Her ability to plow through things is probably more to do with channeling Phazon energy than her actual physical weight. She's got to be lighter than Samus to float casually and store so much Phazon.

Wasn't Samus reported to feel less floaty overall?

inb4 Dark Samus in an EX version of Samus...

 

[Diem]

I just noticed this brief moment from the Direct. Samus and Dark Samus fall the stage at the same time. I wouldn't say that definitely means they're the same weight, but it's evidence for it. It's possible that shot was set up specially just for that image, and it's not reflective of real gameplay.

Edit: THAT LANDING ANIMATION IS SO SMOOTH

 

[meleebrawler]

Her combos out of dash attack* were like 50% of all Samus could do in Smash 4, though. I'm not even kidding.

Does this game look like 4 to you?

Certain characters DI better out of Samus' d-throw, whereas having a dash attack places Samus within that range, allowing for her to follow up with combos. This hurts Samus. I heard M2K say something about u-air not being the same, either. And with jab 1 having a fixed knock-back, that hurts her neutral game. Samus might drop.

And air charging, more reliable bombs, lower landing lag and super missiles stalling do nothing to enhance it? Ultimate Samus looks like someone who zones first to get reactions before moving in to strike, rather than struggling with the question of rushing in or zoning when both options are shaky.

Wasn't Samus reported to feel less floaty overall?

inb4 Dark Samus in an EX version of Samus...

She might be better at combos than Samus since her trailers have a noticeable focus on them as opposed to the former (who would have more knockback & kill power in exchange), but it's just a theory.

 

[CardiganBoy]

There were two camps of people concerning Echo Fighters....

Totally agree

I am replaying Dark Samus’ footage and just watching how stylized her animations are, i though they were just going to reuse Samus’ animations, but they actually make them unique, it’s amazing the love they put on Dark Samus.

Just an FYI, Dark Samus is the first American created fighter in Smash.

As well as the first female villain.

Thinking about it she’s also the second character in Smash made outside Japan, Diddy Kong the first and King K Rool the third.

 

[Aetheri]

I just noticed this brief moment from the Direct. Samus and Dark Samus fall the stage at the same time. I wouldn't say that definitely means they're the same weight, but it's evidence for it. It's possible that shot was set up specially just for that image, and it's not reflective of real gameplay.

Edit: THAT LANDING ANIMATION IS SO SMOOTH

It is already confirmed that echo fighters stats such as weight and fall speed are more or less the same, which is why characters like Young Link and Pichu are not echo fighters...

 

[meleebrawler]

I just noticed this brief moment from the Direct. Samus and Dark Samus fall the stage at the same time. I wouldn't say that definitely means they're the same weight, but it's evidence for it. It's possible that shot was set up specially just for that image, and it's not reflective of real gameplay.

Edit: THAT LANDING ANIMATION IS SO SMOOTH

IKR, every other fighter that moves by floating around still touch the ground when they land from a jump, but not this gal. Wouldn't it be hilarious if this let her dodge low attacks on landing?

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Dark Samus looks amazing - Probably might end up playing her over regular Samus since her animations look so good. I was kinda hoping Dark Samus would make it in as an Echo Fighter, so I'm not too disappointed by it at all, plus we get to round off the Metroid Prime representation in some fashion. Congratulations, everyone!

 

[CardiganBoy]

A gif to appreciate one of her amazing victory animations:

What a nice Corruption reference.

 

[Garo]

Speaking of references (kinda), I really hope she has her iconic laugh as a taunt.

One really cool detail I noticed is that her arm cannon actually deconstructs during her Final Smash and reconstructs after, as if she has to partially break her physical form to unleash the full power of Phazon. I dunno if it's actually a specific reference, but it reminded me of this piece of official art.

 

[Seanp12]

As well as the first female villain.

Are we sure the Metroid Prime even has a sex? I thought it just stole the Phazon Suit, and therefore happens to look like Samus.

 

[Space Detective]

Are we sure the Metroid Prime even has a sex? I thought it just stole the Phazon Suit, and therefore happens to look like Samus.

Dark Samus is consistently referred to as female throughout the Prime games, even though you wouldn't expect her to have a sex.
Metroid Prime specifically I don't think was referred to with a gender. I guess it's just a matter of it looking like Samus after it steals the suit.

 

[Aetheri]

Are we sure the Metroid Prime even has a sex? I thought it just stole the Phazon Suit, and therefore happens to look like Samus.

She also merged with Samus's DNA when she stole her Phazon suit. Which would indeed make her genetically female.

Plus she is very often referred to with female pronouns in the Prime games.

 

[Diem]

Dark Samus looks amazing - Probably might end up playing her over regular Samus since her animations look so good. I was kinda hoping Dark Samus would make it in as an Echo Fighter, so I'm not too disappointed by it at all, plus we get to round off the Metroid Prime representation in some fashion. Congratulations, everyone!

And it's about damn time we got some more Metroid Prime representation. I'll admit; I haven't beaten Super Metroid or Metroid Fusion yet. I played a ways into both, but I never finished them. Haven't beaten Federation Force yet, either (yes I bought it). I've beaten both the original NES Metroid, Metroid Prime Hunters, and Samus Returns once (though I'm gonna replay Samus Returns soon). Haven't touched Zero Mission yet, and will never touch Other M. However, I've played through the whole Metroid Prime Trilogy like 3 or 4 times. So when they add all this content from Zebes and stuff, I don't really know what's going on.

The only Metroid Prime stuff we've gotten across the past two games, besides trophies:

A) Frigate Orpheon stage (Brawl)
B) Meta Ridley in SSE (Brawl)
C) Metroid Prime title theme, Vs. Meta Ridley theme, Vs. Parasite Queen theme, and Metroid Prime 2 multiplayer theme (Brawl)
D) Dark Samus Assist Trophy (4)
E) Psycho Bits track (from Metroid Prime Hunters)
F) Some of Samus's alt colors here and there

That's not a lot for 3-4 games that were all major commercial and critical successes. We didn't even get Samus's Prime design ever. Meanwhile the much less so Metroid: Other M as much if not more in just one game. It's clear that Sakurai, and, well most of Japan, have a bit of a bias against the Prime series. After all, they were made in America, for a franchise that's already not very appealing in Japan.

Hence why I never considered Dark Samus to be too likely. If we couldn't get Samus's Prime suit in any of the games, why would we ever get Dark Samus?

I don't like the Other M design, so I'm even more glad that Dark Samus is here. If Samus had her Prime suit, I'd probably play as her more. Instead I'll go with the version with a cooler design and sick animations.

Speaking of references (kinda), I really hope she has her iconic laugh as a taunt.

One really cool detail I noticed is that her arm cannon actually deconstructs during her Final Smash and reconstructs after, as if she has to partially break her physical form to unleash the full power of Phazon. I dunno if it's actually a specific reference, but it reminded me of this piece of official art.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Samus's arm canon transforms a bit during her Final Smash, so I guess that's Dark Samus's. Again, a lot of attention to detail for this character. Probably more than any other Echo Character. It's amazing.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Really couldn't care less for this, but congrats you guys.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

I've been wanting Dark Samus in Smash for a while, so finally having her as a playable character is a good feeling. Not too long ago, I did a whole video on why I thought that she was practically guaranteed, and one of the most likely newcomers for Ultimate, and now here she is. Today is a day of celebration indeed!

 

[godogod]

How Dark Samus and Chrom are being treated gives me hope that Dark Pit and Lucina get more variation. It's very easy to change their attributes(dash speed, jump height, aerial speed, weight) and damage and knockback, despite similar moves.

 

[Boartobewild]

How Dark Samus and Chrom are being treated gives me hope that Dark Pit and Lucina get more variation. It's very easy to change their attributes(dash speed, jump height, aerial speed, weight) and damage and knockback, despite similar moves.

Yeah with Echo fighters as an official term, but still having some pretty cool differences/attributes, I hope the days of argueing of who happens to be just a clone or semi-*-, are finally behind us.

Also have to mention I would never have guessed, how much more appealing echos like Dark Samus, Richter, Daisy look like to play than their respective counterparts.
All that's missing is Echos like Akuma and either Dark M.K. or Galcacta/Morpho knight and I could die happy ^^

 

[Gameguy1996]

Congrats to the Dark Samus fans. It's great to see Metroid double when it comes to fighters.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I can't say I've ever been a fan of Dark Samus, but since the possibility of echoes I haven't been against the character.

Since Samus is one of the characters over the years I used the most it might be fun to try out Dark Samus in her stead from time to time

 

[Reila]

I wish her final smash was Dark Samus transforming into her Metroid Prime form instead of a cloned Samus final smash. Oh well.

 

[Crystanium]

And air charging, more reliable bombs, lower landing lag and super missiles stalling do nothing to enhance it? Ultimate Samus looks like someone who zones first to get reactions before moving in to strike, rather than struggling with the question of rushing in or zoning when both options are shaky.

Those are buffs, but I think by this point, a lot of Samus mains want to be able to fight close-up. When a faster opponent gets close to Samus, she struggles a lot.

I wish her final smash was Dark Samus transforming into her Metroid Prime form instead of a cloned Samus final smash. Oh well.

It would make more sense for Dark Samus to transform into AU 313. However, Dark Samus has shown the ability to shoot a large beam, whereas Samus has never demonstrated this ability. Still, since both Dark Samus and Gandrayda are capable of doing it, it must mean Samus is capable, too. She just never does it for some reason.

 

[Seanp12]

Perhaps Samus doesn't because Adam hasn't auth-- Nevermind. That horse is dead enough.

 

[Reila]

AU 313

But she is the Metroid Prime and a lot of people don't know or tend to forget that. I know that it doesn't make sense within the Metroid universe for Dark Samus to revert back into Metroid Prime, but in Smash Bros. that doesn't matter.

The Aurora Unit 313 is a bit random and yeah, I know she fuses with it in Prime 3 (if I recall correctly, it is a fusion; or assimilation?).

 

[Boartobewild]

I wish her final smash was Dark Samus transforming into her Metroid Prime form instead of a cloned Samus final smash. Oh well.

Well you are aware, that transformations (except for Ganon and Sonic, which just involve assuming their most powerful state to unleash their most powerful attack) were cut, not only to keep the pace up/not hinder and prolong game time (much like assist trophies, which can all be knocked out now), but also for the sake of fairly balancing them for the new option of the final Smash charge/meter?

 

[Reila]

except for Ganon and Sonic, which just involve assuming their most powerful state to unleash their most powerful attack)

That is exactly what I wanted. Dark Samus transforms into Metroid Prime, unleashes a move, transforms back. I never said anything about controlling the Metroid Prime transformation.

My point is that her Metroid Prime form is iconic enough, after all, it is the name of the very trilogy. Metroid Prime. It wouldn't have hurt to put it as her final smash. Since it would be just an animation like the other final smashes, they could reuse the models from Metroid Prime (1) with better textures.

I have no idea why people are antagonizing the idea.

 

[Boartobewild]

That is exactly what I wanted. Dark Samus transforms into Metroid Prime, unleashes a move, transforms back. I never said anything about controlling the Metroid Prime transformation.

And do what? Grabbing everyone in the near vicinty with it's tentacles or something, similair to Rosa's Final smash or perhabs
Mr. G.W. 's Kraken? Sounds not nearly as badass as a mighty/explosive dark Phazon beam/barrage if you ask me.

 

[Crystanium]

But she is the Metroid Prime and a lot of people don't know or tend to forget that. I know that it doesn't make sense within the Metroid universe for Dark Samus to revert back into Metroid Prime, but in Smash Bros. that doesn't matter.

The Aurora Unit 313 is a bit random and yeah, I know she fuses with it in Prime 3 (if I recall correctly, it is a fusion; or assimilation?).

She was Metroid Prime. If no one wants AU 313, then the final smash she has now will do. I still want Samus' final smash to be Hyper Beam. It'd be cool to see her visor and those lights on her suit to become rainbowic. I wish I could find that fan art again.

 

[Porygon2]

And do what? Grabbing everyone in the near vicinty with it's tentacles or something, similair to Rosa's Final smash or perhabs
Mr. G.W. 's Kraken? Sounds not nearly as badass as a mighty/explosive dark Phazon beam/barrage if you ask me.

Become Metroid Prime essence, rear up and shoot the same beam while spinning around with tentacles outstretched, reform suit and "suck" the essence back into it. Would be neat.

 

[Aetheri]

I've played with the idea of "Dark Samus 4" as her Final Smash before. Essentially her strongest form from Prime 2 where she floats within a shield of Phazon glowing a bright white and unleashes powerful bladts.

 

[Primid]

Since they decided to give Dark Samus basically the same Final Smash as her good-natured counterpart, I think it would've been a nice touch if Dark Samus split into multiple echoes of herself, each of which combines a smaller beam into one larger beam that decimates an opponent (similar to Mega Man's FS I suppose). I think it would've been more visually interesting, but alas, it cannot be.

 

[Diem]

I think what we have for Dark Samus's Final Smash is really all we can get. Not because she's an Echo Fighter, but because of how Final Smashes are being handled this game.

Something related to Phazon corruption could've been cool. Like some kind of area-of-effect, like Luigi's Negative Zone in Brawl, that affects players in different negative ways. But again, those kind of Final Smashes are out the door this game. It needs to be something fast and immediately damaging, so copying Samus's beam is pretty much all I can think of.

People have bandied about the idea of a Metroid Prime transformation elsewhere, and while I think it would be cool to send home the "Metroid Prime" aspect of the character for the sake of the series, I don't think it would make sense for the character. Dark Samus is an incarnation of Metroid Prime, but not Metroid Prime itself. It's a unique being born from Metroid Prime, Phazon, Samus's DNA, and the Phazon Suit. Metroid Prime isn't her original form, it's just one of the elements that birthed her.

 

[Shog]

I would have also loved a Metroid Prime (OG) reference due to people most likely thinking that Dark Samus is supposed to be a doppelgänger, but to be honest SA-X fills that role, not Dark Samus. Honestly Prime "Chozo Armor" would have been a really dumb but fitting name which would describe the situation better at hand.
Btw hand, sadly this Dark Samus doesn't have the eye ball hand

Also I really hope Dark Samus references Red Phazon which even Metroid Prime itself neglected as a concept. Would be pretty cool and could look like the avatar I just made.

 

[Reila]

The song that plays during Dark Samus trailer is just too good.

 

[Crystanium]

The song that plays during Dark Samus trailer is just too good.

I prefer SSBM's version. The second part to it has some really nice drums and it sounds mighty, if might could have a sound. Maybe I'm just a drum kind of guy. Although, I wonder what Steamage's take would be on Brinstar Depth's from SSBU.

 

[meleebrawler]

I don't think Dark Samus could change back to her Metroid form even if she wanted to. That form literally imploded with Phazon and she had to use the Phazon suit to hold herself together.

 

[Reila]

I prefer SSBM's version. The second part to it has some really nice drums and it sounds mighty, if might could have a sound. Maybe I'm just a drum kind of guy. Although, I wonder what Steamage's take would be on Brinstar Depth's from SSBU.

Fair enough. I do like drums a lot myself, but I am also a sucker for classical instruments (mostly piano and violin, though the western concert flute has a gorgeous sound as well).

I don't think Dark Samus could change back to her Metroid form even if she wanted to. That form literally imploded with Phazon and she had to use the Phazon suit to hold herself together.

You are right, but in Smash that doesn't matter. A lot of things in Smash are wrong in the actual canon of the main universes.

 

[Seanp12]

I don't really see her Metroid Prime form as iconic anyway. Sure, the name is iconic, but there's nothing iconic about the form itself, except perhaps the tentacled true form after Samus breaks the crablike form. But I'm not sure if that's what you had in mind.

If I were hoping for any other final smash, it probably would have been some attack based on the echoes or a cinematic of Phazon corrupting all her enemies. Or better yet, a corrupted hunter version of Mega Man's final smash (which I still say should have been named "Rock Band.").