Dining Philosophers Mafia! Game Over - Who Won???

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm a census taker. There were two scum on the wagon. Objections?

 

[Dabuz]

I'm a census taker. There were two scum on the wagon. Objections?

@TBG: Can you claim to have not been able to use a power last Night?
@Known mafia: Can you claim to have not tried to use a power last night?

@Soup: How do I know that this isn't a gambit? =_=

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Good question. Whether you believe me or not doesn't matter, care to tell me who you think the two scum are?

 

[Dabuz]

Any crumbs?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't crumb.

 

[Dabuz]

If I had to guess. Scum would be RR for sure, then Potassium when considering the amount of resistance he's put towards you.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Potassium and RR? What gives you that feeling? I have my own thoughts about this.

 

[Dabuz]

I'm lazy and don't feel like quote boxing, these are things I didn't get back in time to say before Day 1 ended.

Ryu's 200 bothers me because he votes Potassium without providing a reason, and this late in the deadline, it looks like he isn't trying with the vote. He's been super jumpy with his votes, trying to force a TBG lynch before the deadline was moved yet his justification was inactivity, which could be applied to other players for more easily. Masqeruin comes to mind. The reasoning for Potassium in his 202 looks reasonable to me, but I find it ironic because RR himself has been asking safe questions and not committing. However, RR's analysis tells me he's been reading the game and I suspect he's trying to lurk. Too much passiveness.

This summarizes why I think RR could be scum. Along with his 270 not helping at all.

Regarding Potassium, I need to re-read and pull out some quotes with this knowledge in mind but I got the feeling throughout the game that he does not like you alive. Also looking at interactions between RR and Potassium now.

 

[Dabuz]

With that, I got to go to class. Hoping to see more content from anyone who sees this thread when i'm back tonight.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Your first line in your reasoning intrigues me. What do you think of their interaction here?

Spoiler

Ruy can duy

Mmm, that solidifies it.

Vote: Red Ryu

Policy lynches can wait, this guy is scum. (BTW RR this is a serious accusation in case you missed that lol)

You really thought I was joking?

Who do you want to lynch right now, assume we don't get more time to figure stuff out.
What do you think of Acro right now? How about soup? Me?
Would you lynch TBG or Tac based off what we know about them right now?

Thought you were making a pun.

Right now I have no strong scum reads. If deadlined, I'd be fine with Tac, not so much Known Mafia, based on the votes I'm seeing.

Acro is leaning town, soup null, you null.

TBG is fine candidate for a lynch right now based on activity and for Tac's case I can't read him on what he posted so far and if he doesn't give me past game reference I don't think I can. Tac isn't really useful, but if I can get some info on past games, it can at least help my read on him.

And then later about 20 posts, RR comes back to vote Potassium.

I'm not a fan of lynching Tac right now. He is at least showing effort while being honest, new scum don't do that. Town does. Before not enough info, now reading his more recent posts give me that impression. His posts aren't great mind you but the effort seems legit.

vote: Potassium

 

[Known Mafia]

@Known Mafia: Do you think Red Ryu is scum? Do you think he is scum with TBG and distancing by spouting about how TBG is the better lynch without having pushed for it?

It's a possibility, and one I'm looking at more then others. TBG is a member of two of my theoretical scumteams I get from my 248's logic, and RR is one of the possibilities for his scummates. Soup of higher priority atm, though him replacing out would be argh for reads. reading page 8 in a sec

 

[Known Mafia]

Let's play along with soup and look at the wagon.

Tac [5] - soup, dabuz, Potassium, Red Ryu, Known Mafia

I'm town. Kantrip is a townread of mine. dabuz, soup, and RR are left. dabuz isn't scum imo. Soup/RR is the theoretical team from that.
Except I used my NA, so soup can't have gotten a census off. Gambit reasoning soup?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Except I used my NA, so soup can't have gotten a census off. Gambit reasoning soup?

• There is a fork situated between each two players
• In order to perform an action, you need to be able to pick up 2 forks
• At the night phase, if someone makes an action they pick up the fork to the right of them first (All forks are grabbed simultaneously)
• Players then try and pick up the fork to their left, if they are able to, they perform their action, if not, their action fails

 

[Known Mafia]

I'm to your left soup you derp. you would need my fork to get anything off.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Thanks for confirming something.

Red Ryu fork You fork Me fork TBG

You use an action and grab the fork next to me. I grab the right fork first so your action succeeds, thus mine fails. The point I'm making? Red Ryu made no action.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Actually, If I think of it like that: It could be possible that RR's action was blocked, but then of course that would mean Masquerain tried to use one.

Tell me what you think happened, and why your action was successful.

 

[Known Mafia]

How do you know RR actions was blocked?
I never said if my action was successful or not, only that it was attempted. Hence, the only way for you to get an action off would have to be you are scum. Census taker is something a scummer could safely safeclaim because they would objecttively know how many scum were on a wagon.
I'm also going to a friends now so I'll get at this tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You're admitting that you attempted to take an action. Was it successful or not?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Everyone should out if they attempted to take an action, and whether it was successful or not.

 

[Known Mafia]

what's the protown benefit of knowing if it was successful or not? The only thing that matters in this case is that it was attemempted, and that means I had a fork you needed.

 

[Known Mafia]

also canceled plans. grr.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

It implies you have an incentive to use an action, which therefore determines a reason. I think you know what else it means too, so I'm not going to pretend you're stupid.

Talk to me about the Night Kill.

 

[Known Mafia]

Acro was obvtown. His main pushes were for Tac and me, neither of which are/were mafia, so i think it was to get rid of a clear.
I'll trade you if i was successful or not for your opinion on my big mechanics post.
also missed 295 the first go around.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

ok so hando never got back o me on this so i'm gonna post it and you guys can stew on it.
The mafia kill follows the same rules, but those sneaking bad guys are known for trading forks under the table! if two of them are alive you won't be able to stop them making a kill this way. (The passing of forks happens before any Night actions (i.e Roleblocking) occurs
now then, this rule basically confirms in my opinion that Mafia are not seated next to each other. If they were, they would not need to be able to slide forks because they could know when one was picking up a fork or not.
Now that said, this means a scum flip clears the two players seated next to each other. This means that my slot being scum(it isn't) would clear tac and soup since they are next to me.

I think the table seating is completely random and not determinable of where scum would sit. It's implied that they trade forks under the table. Your turn to answer me?

 

[Known Mafia]

Didn't work, but X1 told us that it was indeed attempted. Now I can ask how you got Rr no action out of me saying we attempted an action?

 

[Known Mafia]

also it's the sheer fact that mafia have to trade them under the table that means they aren't next to each other, because if they were seated together they would not have to trade in the first place.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

No, because scum doesn't want people to know they're trading forks. The fork is much more telling than that.

 

[Known Mafia]

obviously they don't want people to know. But if/when we claim our fork usage and ability use, there's a solid chance for them to get caught in a lie. Mechanics favor town imo.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Which is why I want it in the first place. You agree with my #299?

 

[Known Mafia]

I'm fine with it.

 

[Known Mafia]

other people should speak up.

 

[Kantrip]

soup rolefishing?

Why should everyone out if they used an action or not? You realize you can only take forks situated directly beside you right? If the fork directly to your left is taken, there are no other forks for you to grab.

Exception? You are scum and got a fork passed to you.

Scum census taker who finds out how many scum were on the wagon is redundant, however, because there are only 2 scum in this game. Soup is lying about his role if Known Mafia is telling the truth.

However, soup would only do this gambit knowing his scum partner was also on the wagon, because a scumflip from his partner would then legitimize his result and give him super townpoints.

Known Mafia claims to have used an action, which means unless soup is scum, soup can't have. Known Mafia could be lying about this claim, but the risk/reward is very skewed out of his favour (we have a ML so lying here would just be trading 1 for 1 [soup for Known Mafia]).

What does all this mean? It means the liar between the two of them is likely soup. As soon as he gets called out for lying, he does two things:

1. Try to come up with a way that neither of them are lying (he took a different fork). This is impossible though.
2. Try to get everyone to out if they used an action. Rolefishing.

In conclusion, soup is scum and his partner is one of RR/dabuz.

Vote: soup

 

[Kantrip]

I realize my thoughts aren't very organized in that post but I implore you to stop and think about it for a moment.

Also RR and dabuz both started this game almost completely across from soup so by the mechanics Known Mafia is pushing for those sumteams also work.

 

[Kantrip]

dabuz I see you viewing. Weigh in on this please.

 

[Dabuz]

Your first line in your reasoning intrigues me. What do you think of their interaction here?

Spoiler

And then later about 20 posts, RR comes back to vote Potassium.

Yeah, RR's voting pattern here is super fishy.



Now Soup, tell me, what could the pro town benefit of that gambit been? I'm truthfully unable to figure it out, while the pro-scum reason for the gambit is painfully obvious because you "clear" yourself and set up mislynches.

Looking at page 4 (40 PP) made me see something very interesting.

Vote:TGB [\b]

I suggest you all do the same since the deadline is tonight.

Vote: TGB

Vote: TBG

...Why?

Why?

Why?

Please don't tell me you're reaction testing.

It was 24 til deadline if not less.

Inactive fallback lynch

The conversation here just...ends, it's a bit fishy since it looked like Soup was going to push RR here for that vote. This could be ignored as a null by itself, but on the same page, Soup PUSHES (note, not scumreads, pushes) Potassium for the same reason RR made his vote on TBG, inactivity.

Potassium votes TBG for inactivity? Get's pushed.
RR votes TBG for inactivity at the same time? Ignored.

This is hugely inconsistent.

Combined with the terrible gambit from Soup, I think he's scum and has responses with RR that make the RR/ Soup scumteam plausible.

Also, looks like I need to turn back "hidden mode", guessing board update turned that off.

 

[Dabuz]

However, soup would only do this gambit knowing his scum partner was also on the wagon, because a scumflip from his partner would then legitimize his result and give him super townpoints.

I disagree with this because if we do get scum, mafia needs to force a 2 player game (himself and a townie) to win assuming players are smart enough to pick up forks at night preventing a NK. With this in mind, we have 2 players not on the ~Tac~ lynch + scum. Once it's down to Soup + these two players, it becomes obvious Soup was lying and he dies.

 

[Dabuz]

EBWOP: ~Tac~ lynch + 1 scum player.

 

[Kantrip]

Going to attempt to lay this out in a more organized way.

• soup claims he used an action and it was succesful
• Known Mafia claims he used an action and it failed

soup cannot have had an action be succesful if Known Mafia attempted to use an action, unless he had a fork passed to him. Known Mafia's action failed which means Red Ryu attempted to use an action.

This means, without a doubt, that there is a liar between Known Mafia and soup. Numerically speaking, Known Mafia calling soup out like he did, resulting in a 1 for 1 trade, would be a disadvantage for Known Mafia. From probability alone it is much more likely that soup is the liar between them.

 

[Kantrip]

dabuz, that's assuming soup would let it get to him + 2 players not on the Tac lynch. You have to realize that scum picks who they Night Kill and would obviously avoid doing that..

 

[Dabuz]

I didn't see Soup claim success with his action outside of claiming to have taken a census.