Difficult matchups for Puff?

[Typhoon]

Currently, as a Sheik main, I'm having a fairly hard time with Jigglypuff. I'm still contemplating a secondary to work with so I figured that an answer to one of my hardest match-ups was a good place to start. What do you guys find to be the best "counter" to Jiggs atm? Yes, I'm aware that the game is still fresh, the meta will change, ect. I'm just looking to further my knowledge on her weaknesses wherever I can.

 

[Jiggly F. Baby]

Sheik is very effective using his speed against Jigs and his bomb attack. That always gives me a hard time. Zero Suit Samus seems to be my worst matchup.

 

[kunimitsu877]

Sheik is very effective using his speed against Jigs and his bomb attack. That always gives me a hard time. Zero Suit Samus seems to be my worst matchup.

thats good to know but sheik is a girl and has been confirmed a girl by nintendo already she shouldn't have to have been confirmed though since like nintendo shes just zelda dressed like a ninja

 

[♫ Zura ♫]

I had a lot of trouble with a ZSS today. For some reason I couldn't get in Those Ray guns get annoying lol
Can someone tell me the matchup?

 

[OddCrow]

The ONLY character I see and go "oh great ):" is shulk. His nair simply outspaces any aerial attack, his counter means you cannot approach easily, and his arts mean you cannot flee.

 

[sunshinesan]

I main Jiggs, and a good Sheik gives me a lot problems. Spacing with fairs and bairs is not enough because Sheik is so fast that she can just run up fair me on reaction to my bairs, which is a huge problem.

 

[OddCrow]

I main Jiggs, and a good Sheik gives me a lot problems. Spacing with fairs and bairs is not enough because Sheik is so fast that she can just run up fair me on reaction to my bairs, which is a huge problem.

Yes, that and upair covers our descent and kills at like 90%

 

[pinkdeaf1]

I main Jiggs, and a good Sheik gives me a lot problems. Spacing with fairs and bairs is not enough because Sheik is so fast that she can just run up fair me on reaction to my bairs, which is a huge problem.

Space nairs, not fairs or bairs.

Descend into the ledge if you can't get down onstage.

 

[OddCrow]

Jigglypuffs hardest match up is actually lag. Lag kills her, as all your jumps that you try to time end up with you getting smashed

 

[Coonce]

So far ROB, Link, Toon Link, Sonic, and Lucario have given me the most problems. ROB has some nasty aerials and gyro setups. The Links have a good projectile game. Sonic, I feel all I can do is throw out a nair and hope he runs into it. And Lucario gets really dangerous and impossible to gimp at high percents.

I haven't had too much of a problem with ZSS. I typically stay in the air and get in with fast fall nairs. If I'm on the ground, I'm crouching so she can't zap me. I also haven't had much of a problem with Sheik. She not too hard to gimp. Just keep in mind if she's within up B distance of the ledge, otherwise she may not only recover, but also kill you if you get hit by that disappearing hitbox.

And as a general piece of advice...nair is pretty good. Space with it, gimp with it, cover tech options with it, fast fall approach with it, etc.

 

[sunshinesan]

Space nairs, not fairs or bairs.

Descend into the ledge if you can't get down onstage.

I do. Sometimes fairs are needed because of the bigger hitbox and her nairs still come out slower than sheik's aerials even if it is faster than the fair. Bairs are for emergencies, if I happen to face the other way. I usually use them for kills and don't want it to get stale.

 

[Rayopuff]

Am I the only who has had trouble with the Pits?

I freaking hate their uair and their arrow spamming is so annoying

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Am I the only who has had trouble with the Pits?

I freaking hate their uair and their arrow spamming is so annoying

Pit and dark pit can somewhat cover above themselves effectively, so as jigglypuff, I never go straight down onto them. I only approach from the side.

As for arrows, you can avoid them pretty easily with a mix of ducking, jumping, shielding, etc. I don't find arrow spamming too difficult to overcome. Cant you also use nair to cancel the arrows?

 

[Coonce]

So I just found out Luigi can down throw into an up B. It looks like a true combo and it looks like he can do it for a large range of percents. And if it works on Puff, it'll probably work on a lot of the cast. So look out for that. At least Luigi is easy to gimp.

 

[Hitzel]

I've been having most trouble with Villager and Shiek so far. Kirby's been giving me more luck against Villager, but sheik just feels too fast for Jigglypuff and Kirby.

ZSS I actually don't have a lot of trouble with. I just approach from the side, a certain height above the ground where ZSS can't really cover. She's fast, but her moves have a hard time hitting me, unlike Shiek who seems to have hitboxes in all the right places.

I've also heard that some heavy hitting characters like Bowser are supposed to give Jiggs a hard time but I haven't had t worry about it much yet. It's only been a week since launch lol.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Bowser does kill Puff pretty easy but he's still pretty punishable and a big target so it depends how good you are at baiting and evading. ZSS also isn't much of a problem if you know where to position yourself.

Yoshi actually gives me a lot of trouble. Projectiles, double-jump armor, quick attacks, range, everything Puff can't handle well (I'm probably just bad though).

 

[Thinkaman]

Circle Pad is a 10-0 matchup against Pound.

 

[Krynxe]

A good falcon is a nightmare. Raptor boost can kill at like 90% and he can run circles around you. That being said, puff destroys any mediocre/bad falcon players, so a lot of people might not know what I mean. Since I played a high level Brawl player's Falcon who has been playing since the Japense release, I'm pretty confident that the matchup will be rough due to Falcon's speed and kill power. (His aerials as well)

Besides him, a good and patient Little Mac is probably the hardest matchup for Puff. I explained why in another thread already:

little mac beats jigglypuff. Any smart little mac wouldn't go near the edge and get backthrown. They'll keep control of center stage and make you fight them there from the start. You'll almost immediately lose percent lead against him do to moves like dash attack, ftilt, jab, etc. dealing a lot of damage and having massive priority. You'll almost always be playing from behind since he gets % much easier than you, and his ground attacks have more priority than Jigglypuff's aerials. Playing from behind against little mac is awful, because all he has to do it wait center stage and beat practically all your approaches.

@ OddCrow I went to a regional tournament where several of the higher level players from Oregon and Washington played. Gimpyfish, who you probably know since you're an older member of smashboards, won that tournament using Little Mac. I played at least 30-40 matches against him during the day, and I had only won about one match where I was puff and he was mac out of like 8. I won more than I lost using Ness, and even ROB, due to their disjointed hitboxes and access to ranged attacks which forces mac to approach no matter what. That's the main weakness of puff in the matchup, Little Mac has no reason to approach you when he's ahead, and it's so easy for him to get ahead as long as he doesn't let himself get gimped.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Marth and Shulk outrange Jiggs, so they're hell to face. I've also had a bit of trouble with Peach here and there.

I personally don't find Little Mac to be that tough, while he's obviously not going to go towards the ledges it's easy for Jiggs to force him there as soon as she gets one attack off. I haven't had any trouble with Little Mac yet.

 

[Droogaon]

I've been playing for a while and I've only found Yoshi to be a problem. I still need to play a bit more.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

Got destroyed by a yoshi. Even though I'm sure I'm in general weaker than that player(no doubt there), I couldn't figure out a way to approach.

Yoshi has plenty of movement options, with his eggs he can cover himself(sometimes literally), back off falling Nair(? its the one kick), then auto canceled neutral b. In the air his eggs take enough time to dodge he is already starting a mix up on you.
dash ins can be punished by that neutral b, SH punished by the falling Nair. Tis only jiggs had a proj...

granted only fought em two times and the only other yoshi i fought previously wasn't as quick.

 

[Jynxed]

My fiance is terrible at smash, yet one of the few times he beat me he was Yoshi and I was Jigglypuff. Just that is enough to make me think Yoshi has a huge advantage against Jigglypuff. My dude barely knows how to use smash attacks and he was keepin me on the edge of my seat. Also he's pretty good at Captain Falcon--he's not great but it can still give Jigglypuff a hard time. Anything that can hit hard and hit before Jiggs is a problem.

 

[Sparkbeat]

Jigglypuffs hardest match up is actually lag. Lag kills her, as all your jumps that you try to time end up with you getting smashed

So much this.

I've really only been playing 1v1 For Glory's so far since I haven't been able to meet with anyone near me who has the game, so just gonna spitball on what I've seen from there. Most characters are just really annoying to try to get in on, but once you're in you have to stay in. Rosalina + Luma's annoying because of the Luma shield, and Luma always pressuring you while Rosalina sits on the other side. Marth/Lucina played well are annoying because swords, but when you get in I find you can usually stay in, putting them in a bad position. A good and fast Sheik is a nightmare because you can get outspaced with Bair and Nair, and Fair is still really annoying. I haven't really faced a good DHD yet, but he's probably in the category of "annoying to get in on, but once in easy to grab momentum and a stock." Little Mac is either really good or really bad. I usually just camp the stage edges and make him approach me, but if they don't fall for it or catch you sleeping it gets bad quick. Lucario and Rob can camp you hard so that's never fun. Robin is annoying to approach and his smashes have annoying hitboxes too, but if you get in, you're in. Villager is hell because if he can get a sapling planted, you have no way to approach. Ground you get hit by tree sprouting, go in the air you can still get hit by tree, go to high and he can literally just run to the other side of the sapling/tree. Also has gyroid. Samus has projectiles and a really troublesome roll for puff. Sonic is just really really fast and I honestly had no clue what to do. A fast Link that applies constant pressure is hell as well. Campy Shulk sucks, but usually if you can get in you're good. DK is someone I've found to have lots of trouble with due to having no stun at low percents and being able to outspace you with jabs and up tilts. Pretty easy to carry off stage though. Surprisingly Ike has been frustrating too if he spaces well with his Fairs and other moves (not to familiar with Ike x_x) Anyways, that's just what I've seen so far, so some of this could just be me.

 

[Zigoon95]

Heavy characters that work well both on the ground and in the air.
Wario is VERY annoying, and Donkey Kong and King Dedede are next to him. Mostly because Jigglypuff is forced to hit them with Pound/aerials at very low heights and all of them manage to hurt Jigglypuff with strong ground moves and fast and strong aerials as combo... All of this, obviously, because of their huge range. -_-
Yoshi, Rosalina and Captain Falcon are also bad matchups for Jigglypuff, but they are hard for all so it's "okay".


I don't think Sheik and Zero Suit Samus are too difficult to it, because they are tall and light, so most of the time an aerial Pound works, and using fsmash to eventually finish them could be satisfying. But maybe it is because all the Sheik/ZSS I met are simply guys who use them because someone told them they are the strongest characters in SSB4. =P

 

[Spinosaurus]

Gonna echo Wario, actually. I use both, and I also have a friend who uses Puff (who is also a lot better than me to be fair lol). Against her I just have no problem keeping her at bay. Wario is really good against other aerial characters. I can only manage to beat my friend if she uses Puff and it's just an easy match up generally in my experience.

Basically any character that I can't approach is just hard. Marth is still an annoyance, and I had lots of trouble against Toon Link campers. I'm not a good Puff by any means, though.

 

[ROOOOY!]

So far ROB, Link, Toon Link, Sonic, and Lucario have given me the most problems. ROB has some nasty aerials and gyro setups. The Links have a good projectile game. Sonic, I feel all I can do is throw out a nair and hope he runs into it. And Lucario gets really dangerous and impossible to gimp at high percents.

Just dtilt against sonic, there's literally nothing he can do to any character spamming dtilt.



I play both sonic and jiggz equally, just space retreating aerials. Also don't waste your time juggling, you'll just eat a spring to the face. Time it right, and you can shieldgrab him out of spins, although a good Sonic won't approach with rolls as theyre used for baiting.

 

[mini paincakes]

Bowser is a bit annoying to deal with. He has the advantage in most areas, but he's a bit easier to rest on because of his huge size and his offstage game is bested by Puff.

Marth has always been a difficult matchup for Jiggs, but I've played that matchup so often that I don't have any problems fighting Marths.

Shiek is another matchup that can be hard for puff, but puff can win if she spaces correctly. I've heard Shiek players say that Puff is a hard matchup for Shiek, so I guess it really depends on the player.

Rosalina is pretty hard because of disjointed aerial hitboxes and luma shield. I need to practice this one more becuase I haven't played many Roasalumas with Puff. I usually go Wario for that matchup.

Shulk has the same problem that Marth has: a sword that can completely out range Jigglypuff. You have to play smart and get close to win this matchup.

DK has the same issues as bowser, but has better air game. I haven't played many good DK players with Puff yet, but I can see this matchup being difficult.

Robin has disjointed sword hitboxes at close range and good projectiles to space with. He's good at not letting puff get close.

Out of the characters listed, the only character that I feel are truly difficult are Rosalina and Luma and Robin. The rest require Jigglypuff to change her playstyle, but can be beaten without too much trouble. Rosalina and Robin are just pretty hard for me to beat as Jigglypuff, no matter what.

 

[Spirst]

As a Greninja main who uses Jigglypuff as a secondary in Sm4sh and Brawl, but a main in Melee, how do you guys feel about the Greninja matchup? I've played a number of Jigglypuffs and didn't feel as if I had much reason to think that matchup was particularly hard for Greninja. Jigglypuff has some issues getting in, staying in, and can't really gimp Greninja so easily. Also, Greninja's sweetspotted usmash is a huge pain in the ass when trying to remain in the air at high percents. Greninja seems a bit similar to Shiek in terms of mobility and aggressive style play.

One of Jigglypuff's main KO moves, her bair, isn't very easy to land on a competent Greninja. Rest can be pretty dangerous too as Greninja has a lot of fake-outs to bait it.

 

[BlueBirdE]

So I just found out Luigi can down throw into an up B. It looks like a true combo and it looks like he can do it for a large range of percents. And if it works on Puff, it'll probably work on a lot of the cast. So look out for that. At least Luigi is easy to gimp.

I think I got matched up with you the other day on for glory @ Coonce , some solid matches the d-throw to up-b seems to be a true combo so far but were still picking at it on the luigi boards. If you want to get some matches in sometime and see how this MU goes i'm down anytime.

 

[Coonce]

I think I got matched up with you the other day on for glory @ Coonce , some solid matches the d-throw to up-b seems to be a true combo so far but were still picking at it on the luigi boards. If you want to get some matches in sometime and see how this MU goes i'm down anytime.

Hah, yeah, I remember Blue-something being the Luigi player. They were some good games. I do wish I could have taken more than one game off you. The main problem I could tell I was having against you were the shield grabs and shield and run up grabs (which then led into the grab combos). I was trying to space fairs as a safe poke, but couldn't seem to do it well enough. Without a c stick it's nearly impossible to do a true retreating directional aerial.

But yeah, I'd up for playing again sometime. I'll message you my friend code.

 

[Zigoon95]

Hmm, today I was playing with Ness against a Dark Pit. Usually I use him as a counterpick after some matches, while my first choices are usually Jigglypuff or Pikachu, but since I was trying to perform that PKFire-dthrow-u/fair combo, I picked him for these matches. I won all of them as Ness, but I felt that Dark Pit was good enough to eventually detect my strategy and win, so I said "Okay, enough, let's switch to Jigglypuff".

I shouldn't have done that. It seems that Dark Pit (and so Pit, probably) has all the cards to counter Jigglypuff. You can't Pound/nair him well because he is low, Rollout is nullified by the arrows and, overall, (Dark) Pit has a good range with all of his smashes and aerials. I lost all the matches, so I switched back to Ness (never happened O_O), but then that player crashed.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

I lost all the matches, so I switched back to Ness (never happened O_O), but then that player crashed.

hmm didn't know Ness was so strong vs dark pit that the MU crashes.

In seriousness though, I find Pit(too) to be an even MU. You can duck fully charged arrows, they are tall enough to hit with fair and dair consistently, they can't use their side b as its a free punish, their shield is good at pushing us away during a jump in but you can bait it then jump it.. this is the ground game though. in the air I feel pit(too) can out poke us, and given our lightweight we can't take that much dmg before we're face to death wall next to a blastzone. Pit(too) also has better recovery options, so gimping is a challenge.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

I don't believe that dark pit or pit can counter jigglypuff. I think that even if they have all the tools necessary, we as jigglypuff players ought not to fall so easily to them. Heck, almost all characters have the tools to overcome other characters. Jigglypuff just has to bait and punish if that dark pit counters us simply running in. Pittoo might have a decent air game, but all sword ranges has been nerfed terribly, and jigglypuff's limbs stretch out pretty far for fair. Hell, that fair goes as far as Samus' f-smash. Shout out to @Pékaßlu. This guy has a great jigglypuff.

Anyway, as far as range goes, darkpit shouldn't have much of any advantage in terms of range. He only has disjoints, I think, but even then, we have the aerial mobility to weave in and out. Besides, dark pit's aerials, except for bair, have a decent amount of lag to them. I should know. I use dark pit as well. And I know that only with the best spacing imaginable can dark pit beat jigglypuff.

 

[mini paincakes]

I'd like to take back my statement about Rosalina and Robin being tough matchups for Puff. They're hard to approach, but you can beat them once Puff gets close. I actually think Puff is one of the stronger Rosalina MUs since she can actually avoid luma by jumping over and can beat rosalina in the air. Robin just isn't as hard to approach as I initially thought.

Sonic, DK, Bowser, Captain Falcon, Shiek and Shulk are probably the hardest Jigglypuff MUs right now.

 

[Krynxe]

Sonic, DK, Bowser, Captain Falcon, Shiek and Shulk are probably the hardest Jigglypuff MUs right now.

I disagree with most of these. I'll make a writeup of every character matchup in the future but I need to gather more information before I'm confident in my assessments

 

[pinkdeaf1]

I disagree with most of these. I'll make a writeup of every character matchup in the future but I need to gather more information before I'm confident in my assessments

I can see issues with bowser, but I agree that the others aren't too hard. Nair really is just that broken in these matchups. It stumps approaches and helps edgeguarding immensely.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I disagree with most of these. I'll make a writeup of every character matchup in the future but I need to gather more information before I'm confident in my assessments

Alright. That will be fun to read.

 

[mini paincakes]

I disagree with most of these. I'll make a writeup of every character matchup in the future but I need to gather more information before I'm confident in my assessments

I look forward to reading it. I'm still not sure of most of the Puff matchups since I haven't played many good players who use certain characters that aren't Zero Suit, Robin, Yoshi, Sheik, Rosalina and Mac.

 

[CosmicFuzz]

I have to agree that Nair just stumps a lot of the characters you mentioned. The only truly annoying match up I've played in For Glory or amongst other Smashers was Yoshi and that's because he's impossible to Gimp early on.

 

[RedLithium]

i really have a lot of trouble against sonic i get combo-ed and i cant gimp him like other character because his up b goes to high but maybe im just bad