Diddy's 3rd CG (Kinda)

[Player-1]

Not really a CG, just tech chasing. Credit to Pastaboy, who is the 1st person I've seen do it in his combo video(watch it). Works at any percent damage if your opponent is stupid but best at low %s.

Anyway, it works like my bthrow to gtoss to b throw CG. What you do is bthrow, and if they get stage smacked, predict the roll and repeat. Works best on heavy, fast falling characters. I've put this into my game, and after using it in real matches, I've came to the conclusion that 70% of the time, they will in the opposite direction you threw them in(torwards you). The best position to put yourself in to grab them is about one roll backwards and 70% of the time they will roll in front of you. Works really well and you can finish it out with numerous attacks.

 

[Player-1]

Bumped

10Bumps

 

[chimpact]

Im pretty sure this is the first CG for diddy. Haven't you seen the NL Vs random pika vid?

 

[Player-1]

Im pretty sure this is the first CG for diddy. Haven't you seen the NL Vs random pika vid?

NL never discovered a CG unless it was the BCC, I forgot who made BCC, I made the 2nd one, Pasta made this one, I'm just trying to aware everyone of how good this is.

 

[JPOBS]

what happens if they just jump or air dodge or do nothing after hitting te ground? or getup attack or spot dodge or anything BUT roll?

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

I was thinking about something like this for a while. I just never got into testing it or trying it. After you hit somebody with a banana is there not any frames where you can hit them with another banana, no matter what action they do? Whether it be get up, roll, or attack? If so, then all you have to do is wait till those frames are available and punish them with good timing and practice. Sounds like an infinite to me, but that needs to be tested.

 

[Player-1]

I was thinking about something like this for a while. I just never got into testing it or trying it. After you hit somebody with a banana is there not any frames where you can hit them with another banana, no matter what action they do? Whether it be get up, roll, or attack? If so, then all you have to do is wait till those frames are available and punish them with good timing and practice. Sounds like an infinite to me, but that needs to be tested.

This has nothing to do with bananas, what your thinking of is diddy's second CG discovered by me, that involves this.

JPOBS: That's why I said it's KINDA a CG, also I said if they get stage smacked, so they can't side step or roll dodge, they either can roll to the right, the left, attack to get up, or a normal get up. But like I said 70% they roll towards you where you just grab them again.

 

[Player-1]

It might have been in Advent lee's combo video...I tried watching pasta's combo video and I didn't see it, but I was fast forwarding through it so I might have missed it

 

[AlphaZealot]

Umm...how is this any different then what we've been doing for awhile?

What do you mean by stage smacked I guess.

 

[Player-1]

Umm...how is this any different then what we've been doing for awhile?

What do you mean by stage smacked I guess.

Basically, you bthrow, they land on the ground, not teching and get the 'stage smacked' effect(not sure what you call it), so they either have a choice of rolling towards you, away from you, attacking to get up, or a normal get up (like if someone trips), 70% of the time they will roll towards you and you can just repeat it

 

[AlphaZealot]

How is this any different from the Bthrow-Gtoss CG? It sounds like the same exact thing...

 

[Vyse]

How is this any different from the Bthrow-Gtoss CG? It sounds like the same exact thing...

What AZ said.
There's a difference between chain grabbing and prediction.

Sounds like it works just like the B-throw => GT chain grab, only this is less guaranteed and less safe

It's like you said, it would only work if your opponent is stupid. Like a lot of pseudo-chains in Brawl.

 

[DUB]

I'm sure every Diddy has done this at some point in time. It's actually pretty common.

 

[pastaboy]

this is awsome, thnx for the credit, i didnt do anything lol.

 

[Player-1]

How is this any different from the Bthrow-Gtoss CG? It sounds like the same exact thing...

Just because no bananas are needed. If you dont have any bananas out or they're too far then this a great substitute.

Vice:This is why I said kind of and in the first post i said it wasn't really a CG but just predicting the roll.

DUB:No...not really

Pasta:I thought it was your combo vid I saw this on but I wasn't sure.


Anyway this has worked great for me, really good on LC, I've performed this with a mix of the GT CG and other things like dash attack to a spike. Next your playing a fastfaller try it out.

 

[AlphaZealot]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!

I just assumed I read "and glide toss regrab". So this is just tech chasing with no banana, got it.

 

[xoxokev]

i can't really picture this... when you say bthrow to gtoss... that means back throw to glide toss, right? but then you mention you dont need a banana... what do you throw when you glide toss? please clarify... a vid would help, or a link to the combo vid you mention along with what time to watch. i'm really interested in see this thanks

 

[Vyse]

See, we've been talking about 2 different chain throws.

1. Back Throw to Glide Toss
This involves grabbing the opponent, throwing them back, picking up a banana, Gtossing it, and regrabbing them. This works because the banana should wind up somewhere close to you when you re-grab

2. Backthrow Chase
The 'chain throw' described in this thread is one that only uses Diddy's back throw to throw and predict and regrab.

 

[Le_THieN]

i can't really picture this... when you say bthrow to gtoss... that means back throw to glide toss, right? but then you mention you dont need a banana... what do you throw when you glide toss? please clarify... a vid would help, or a link to the combo vid you mention along with what time to watch. i'm really interested in see this thanks

*deep breath* Okay.

This is what Player-1 means:

You grab an opponent. After doing so, you B-throw (possibly after pummeling), and depending on a couple of factors, your opponent will occasionally suffer from aerial hit-stun long enough for them to collide directly into the ground. Assuming that they are too caught off guard by the speed and low trajectory of the B-throw to respond quick enough with a tech, your opponent will simply smack the ground once and fall back to the surface; from here your opponent will remain in a prostrate position until they take action.

From here, you have now set yourself up in a similar position to commence with tech-chasing and -baiting that is similar to Snake's D-throw (choke-hold). Your opponent only has four conceivable options, all of which are greatly influenced by how far away you are positioned from them. They can either:

• roll backward
• roll forward
• execute a get-up attack
• stand straight up

Rolling in either direction will naturally be most people's immediate option as they will seek to achieve better positioning by re-spacing themselves. Both of these are easily tech-chase-able. Most (but I would be willing to wager that all) get-up attacks have a bit of start-up time to them, and most Snake players who exercise this tactic have grown pretty accustomed to recognizing the animations of get-up attacks within the first handful of frames. If you've ever taken the time to just step back and look at what the get-up attacks look like (both from the ground and from opponents hanging on a ledge), they are all really quite telegraphed and easy to intercept.

Fear players who decide to stand straight up - that means they are onto your game. =)

The two things you need to consider in order for this tactic to be effective are:

• your opponent's weight class
• your opponent's percentage

This knowledge is important in order for this to work, because even if your opponent is necessarily a heavyweight, their character might be a low enough percentage (barring featherweight characters, of course) in order for hit-stun to last long enough for them to smack the ground. Similarly, percentages also determine the frequency at which you can do this.

Thanks for shedding some light on this, P1. It's something I occasionally noticed I did subconsciously, but nothing I would ever think about putting into text.

 

[Player-1]

Thien, I <3 how you can explain everything so clearly.

READ THIEN'S POST

 

[Le_THieN]

Thien, I <3 how you can explain everything so clearly.

READ THIEN'S POST

LOL, I think you were just confusing everyone (including myself) by proxy of the fact that you even mentioned chain-grabbing and glide-tossing. =) Once I got to the "stage-smacking" part, however, I knew exactly what you were talking about.

Anyway, this is a fun little tactic to tack on some extra damage. It's also worth noting that this brand of tech-chasing and -baiting isn't limited to forcing missed techs with B-throw, though - try paying attention to what your opponent does every time you pop them into the air with an attack. They will either air-dodge immediately; wiggle their directional stick to exit their freefalling state; wait to hit the ground and tech; or stay in the freefalling state and hit the ground or platform and completely missing the tech. You would be very surprised at how often people miss techs, and what you can do to take advantage of that fact.

Keep in mind that tech-chasing and -baiting once your opponents are forced into this compromising position also works with moves that will occasionally force trips (banana peels, Diddy Kick, B-air). The cool thing about the banana peels is that you can force them into this corner 100% of the time; most people, however, are more content with launching an all-out offensive salvo, even if they themselves are not in position to capitalized on opponents' tripped states. Try tripping your opponents with banana peels and just intercepting their rolls if they are too far away to be grabbed or smashed, kids.

The last thing I want to mention is that this tactic isn't really anything particularly new - not even to a game like Brawl. People have been deploying these mind-game tactics since at least Melee. As a Melee Marth main, some of they mid- to heavyweight characters that I would occasionally force into an U-throw chain-throw would get stuck on platforms; most people were so surprised, that they would never tech off this platform at all. Their options as they are lying on the platform are exactly the same, and all I would usually have to do in order to score a free F-smash tipper for certain death was to, um, wait for my opponent to do something. It was shocking how many people chose to roll, even though they had absolutely nowhere to go on a platform.

The above is equally as true in Brawl. Try U-throwing your opponents on one of the platforms with Diddy on Battlefield sometime (even on the top platform), and reap the benefits of free damage.

 

[ADHD]

I'm gonna try this, what are diddy's other chaingrabs? Either the banana choke chaingrab doesn't work, or it's just waaaay to precise to time to get it perfect.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

This has nothing to do with bananas, what your thinking of is diddy's second CG discovered by me, that involves this.

JPOBS: That's why I said it's KINDA a CG, also I said if they get stage smacked, so they can't side step or roll dodge, they either can roll to the right, the left, attack to get up, or a normal get up. But like I said 70% they roll towards you where you just grab them again.

I'm not talking about a chain grab. I was talking about an infinite with bananas only.

 

[ADHD]

I'm not talking about a chain grab. I was talking about an infinite with bananas only.

there is no infinite only a wall infinite

 

[DUB]

Something that helps with the tech-chase I've found and I'm sure others have stumbled across. After you dash attack or w/e you do to pick the naner up while they are laying on the ground you can go into a Dash Dance to wait for their tech and possibly throw them off. You can GT out of the DD so it's an effective little stall.