Diddy will be the TOP 4 chars in brawl at high levels

[Kaptain Kong]

i actually dont see diddy getting that popular if he makes it into the top 4

 

[Le_THieN]

I cordially disagree with everyone for the most part.

There won't be any drastic shifts for any of Diddy Kong's established "match-up ratios" in either direction over the lifespan of Brawl, but I can easily see many of them tightening up and becoming much more difficult down the road as more and more people pick up Diddy for the sake of learning how to play with and against items. To me, it seems inevitable that more and more top-level players will soon discover the ultimate game-breaking value of small things like Z-grabbing and -catching, as well as instant-throwing (we really need to come up with a better name for this). I've already had some of my Texas brothers implement this into their anti-Diddy game, and it's quite a headache.

It's possible for Diddy Kong mains to ultimately always stay ahead of the curve through prudent item micromanagement, but that will hardly deter others from at least attempting to utilize items as effectively as we do over the course of the next couple of years. I imagine Melee didn't really see the rise of truly effective or universal anti-item strategies because characters like Link or even Peach didn't produce items that could potentially make or break entire sets. Diddy Kong's banana peels are different and more lethal beast entirely, and I think it would be silly to assume that nobody but Diddy Kong mains will ever try to at least simulate our unique rush-down game by turning the tables on us.

This is, of course, an alternate prediction rooted in opinion.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

I cordially disagree with everyone for the most part.

There won't be any drastic shifts for any of Diddy Kong's established "match-up ratios" in either direction over the lifespan of Brawl, but I can easily see many of them tightening up and becoming much more difficult down the road as more and more people pick up Diddy for the sake of learning how to play with and against items. To me, it seems inevitable that more and more top-level players will soon discover the ultimate game-breaking value of small things like Z-grabbing and -catching, as well as instant-throwing (we really need to come up with a better name for this). I've already had some of my Texas brothers implement this into their anti-Diddy game, and it's quite a headache.

It's possible for Diddy Kong mains to ultimately always stay ahead of the curve through prudent item micromanagement, but that will hardly deter others from at least attempting to utilize items as effectively as we do over the course of the next couple of years. I imagine Melee didn't really see the rise of truly effective or universal anti-item strategies because characters like Link or even Peach didn't produce items that could potentially make or break entire sets. Diddy Kong's banana peels are different and more lethal beast entirely, and I think it would be silly to assume that nobody but Diddy Kong mains will ever try to at least simulate our unique rush-down game by turning the tables on us.

This is, of course, an alternate prediction rooted in opinion.

Sounds like Starcraft ;P

The thing with Diddy is he can really change it up and he has a much larger variety of mind games than others. He is only going to get better. As for the other characters...the players can only play smarter unless some crazy glitches are discovered or we move on to Brawl+

 

[PhantomX]

I'll never understand people attributing "mindgames" to a given character. Mindgames are purely dependent on the player, hence why they're mindgames.

 

[DMG]

Mindgames do not exist.

Except for DMG mindgames, like choosing to run away instead of approaching. lol.

 

[BentoBox]

runaway guy has spoken

 

[ADHD]

If Diddy truly is top tier, and ends up becoming super popular, us Lucarios will start having field days at tourneys. :D

Yeah! Go top 4! Make it easier for the Lucarios!

Lol what are you talking about you're gonna get *****.

 

[thumbswayup]

lol seriously. I love fighting Lucarios with Diddy :D

 

[GDX]

lol seriously. I love fighting Lucarios with Diddy :D

yea im not sure what this lucarios being happy about fighting diddys thing is either

now if it were luigis saying that, THEN i could understand

and thumbs, you and me were challenged by ADHD to a 4-way diddy ditto on RC at apex. be ready

 

[Diddyknight]

LOL GDX

thats sounds very fun =3

 

[thumbswayup]

Luigi is the bane of my existence.

And ROFL who's the fourth Diddy? LMAO that sounds hilariously awesome, can't wait :D

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Diddy top 4? I doubt it.
He's really good and does deserve a spot in top tier but top 4? I agree with the Wario mains when they say that Wario should be up there though. Wario is the 4th best character imo with either Diddy, Olimar or D3 being 5th (MK, Snake, Falco are top3 in no particular order). I was under the impression that Wario has the advantage against Diddy but I doubt it after watching Ninja Link vs Reflex (though I know that one set doesn't mean much). Either way, I agree that Diddy has no unwinnable match-up or one that's worse than 4/6 but neither does Wario (Marth is his worst match-up afaik and it's 4/6 at worst).
Falco actually doesn't either (personally I think 45/55 is his worst match-up) and he's not overrated...he's the 3rd best character and I'd gladly MM any Ice Climber vs my scrubby Falco to show you how Falco ***** them.
Another character who's often overlooked (while we're on the subject) is Kirby. I'm starting to think that he'll be top tier for similar reasons as ADHD stated in the OP (no match-up that's worse than 4/6, no unwinnable ones, very good vs MK). He has lots of great attributes and almost no weaknesses (except his weight). I'm not sure where exactly he should be but I think he may even be better than D3...

Considering that Snake does better than MK against Diddy, Falco, Kirby and G&W (some may even argue vs Olimar as well) I think that Snake will turn out to be the number 1 sooner or later...so I'd say the tier list should look sth like that:

MK/Snake
Falco
Wario
Diddy/Olimar/Kirby/D3

This should be top tier ... high tier would be G&W, Marth, ROB, Luc, Zamus and others.

 

[Roxas215]

I was also thinking kirby is going to pull a oli jump in the next tier list. A good kirby is deadly and his worst matchup is only 40:60

But kirby being better d3? Never going to happen.

 

[GDX]

i think the 4th diddy is NL. if not im sure we can find another diddy to replace him

 

[thumbswayup]

LMFAO me, you, NL, and ADHD all on Rainbow Cruise. Too funny, and you all better **** be pulling out both your naners at the start of the match

I did the four way Diddy thing on FD once in a teams tourny match against Azen. It was me and Esoj against Azen and Dk Smash and I demanded a four way Diddy naner fest on FD for at least one of the matches. It was so much fun we ended up doing it for both rounds LOL. Naner locks left and right, way too crazy.

 

[Bellioes]

LOL It sounds crazy ^_^
I think Im gonna try that

 

[Turbo Ether]

Imo, Diddy is potentially second best, being just under MK. Wario? Like 4th or 5th.

MK
-
Diddy/Snake
Falco/Wario
DDD/Marth
-
Olimar
G&W

 

[The Sauce Boss]

i'll Never Understand People Attributing "mindgames" To A Given Character. Mindgames Are Purely Dependent On The Player, Hence Why They're Mindgames.

Omg Thank You.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Every character has a bad point.

MK? none really, when played effectively. yes he's light, but his defensive play can be awesome.
Snake? reflectors or people that know the matchup really well.
Falco? his recovery, hes easily gimpable
Marth? A bit recovery, but not as bad as falco.
GW? light, but again his defensive play is easy to master

but looking at diddy, diddys disadvantages are
Killing ability
His strongest weapon can be used against him
Light weight

As you can see, he doesnt quite fit in. =/

 

[Bellioes]

I'll never understand people attributing "mindgames" to a given character. Mindgames are purely dependent on the player, hence why they're mindgames.

That is so true. Very intelligent stuff there
Definitely sig-worthy

EDIT: 100th Post!!!!

 

[Player-1]

Every character has a bad point.

MK? none really, when played effectively. yes he's light, but his defensive play can be awesome.
Snake? reflectors or people that know the matchup really well.
Falco? his recovery, hes easily gimpable
Marth? A bit recovery, but not as bad as falco.
GW? light, but again his defensive play is easy to master

but looking at diddy, diddys disadvantages are
Killing ability
His strongest weapon can be used against him
Light weight

As you can see, he doesnt quite fit in. =/

Lol, all of those characters have more than 1 bad point, and you're not even making a valid argument, you didn't mention stage choice, matchups, scenarios, etc.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Lol, all of those characters have more than 1 bad point, and you're not even making a valid argument, you didn't mention stage choice, matchups, scenarios, etc.

sigh, ofc they have more then 1 bad point, but those are the points that are most exploitable.

stage choice - what do you mean with this? that you can counterpick a stage to disadvantage an opponent? everyone can do that, it works all ways.
matchups - all of the top tiers have about the same matchups (as in most of the time not worse then 60/40), but diddy's matchups are all dependant on playstyle, if diddy faces a falco who knows that nair can catch bananas easily and exploits that weakness he will probably lose, but if falco is just focusing on chaingrabs he will probably lose.

 

[ADHD]

Matchups? Not having much to do with characters being better. Metaknight IS the best, maybe snake has a slight advantage in that matchup but metaknight is still better over all. Metaknight isn't light, that stupid uair magnifies his weight and lets him live much longer. And gheb any good ice climber player will **** any falco.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And gheb any good ice climber player will **** any falco.

Nope. Not mine.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

what can you do against ice climbers as falco? all falcos normal advantages are diminished.

phantasm and laser spam, skills bro?

 

[Player-1]

sigh, ofc they have more then 1 bad point, but those are the points that are most exploitable.

stage choice - what do you mean with this? that you can counterpick a stage to disadvantage an opponent? everyone can do that, it works all ways.
matchups - all of the top tiers have about the same matchups (as in most of the time not worse then 60/40), but diddy's matchups are all dependant on playstyle, if diddy faces a falco who knows that nair can catch bananas easily and exploits that weakness he will probably lose, but if falco is just focusing on chaingrabs he will probably lose.

Snake and Falco being heavy characters is just as exploitable, if not more so than that. G&W's weight is more exploitable. Diddy counters or goes even with all top the top/top of the high tiers. He gets beaten by some of the lower tiers, those are even his 2 worst matchups (Luigi & Peach), but A LOT more people play the top tier characters than them so we don't have to worry about that as much as opposed to it being the other way around (Beats the lower tiers, but has a hard time with the higher characters). Snake, for example, has 2 bad matchups with Falco and D3 both top tier characters, but generally ***** Mid tier and down, having slight advantages/neutral on some high tier characters. Diddy also doesn't have any notably bad stages, anyone who says RC/Norfair is bad for him are just ignorant, obviously they're not good for him, but he can play better there than Falco or Snake.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

being heavy is exploitable how? GW weight is exploitable how? i dont know much about diddy's matchup, so i must remain neutral with the rest of your post. bad stages for diddy are small stages because bananas are easily thrown off and diddy doesnt have much room to pull nanas out unpunished.

 

[T3h Albino]

being heavy is exploitable how? GW weight is exploitable how? i dont know much about diddy's matchup, so i must remain neutral with the rest of your post. bad stages for diddy are small stages because bananas are easily thrown off and diddy doesnt have much room to pull nanas out unpunished.

i dont die until around 100+ with snake while i die early with gw
exploitable?
exploting gw's lightweight would be...using kill moves that wouldn't kill other characters as early as it would kill him?
and actually small stages can be good because you can gain better stage control over less agressive/ characters with bad defensive games ;3

 

[ADHD]

G&W has no approaches on diddy its rather sad

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

G&W has no approaches on diddy its rather sad

i can believe that, still GW should be able to cancel out most approaches by shielding and/or nair-ing

i dont die until around 100+ with snake while i die early with gw
exploitable?
exploting gw's lightweight would be...using kill moves that wouldn't kill other characters as early as it would kill him?
and actually small stages can be good because you can gain better stage control over less agressive/ characters with bad defensive games ;3

problem is that characters with bad defensive games dont exist in top tiers, if you cant beat top tiers you cant be a top tier.

exploiting GW light weight is hard as, like i said, his defensive game is good because of multihit moves and high priority.

 

[T3h Albino]

i can believe that, still GW should be able to cancel out most approaches by shielding and/or nair-ing


problem is that characters with bad defensive games dont exist in top tiers, if you cant beat top tiers you cant be a top tier.

exploiting GW light weight is hard as, like i said, his defensive game is good because of multihit moves and high priority.

how about this
diddy outcamps gnw and since this is brawl
end/
diddy is top tier now isnt he?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

yes, yes he is.

(you dont seriously want me to reply to that do you?)

 

[T3h Albino]

well i do agree with the argument chrome stated at the beginning of this thread and i guess what this threads about so ill leave it at that. Diddy has the potential to be so devistating and the ability to really overcome any matchup with an item that causes auto tripping. he's too ****ing good ;3

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

meh, many characters have the potential to be devistating when played right, and the item that causes auto tripping can be used against him when the opponent has a quick long or lasting move (snakes fair, MKs fair/nair, marths fair/nair, falcos nair) to name a few

in either way, ima sleep.

 

[Bellioes]

Yeah but I dont think there are any characters that can use the bananas like diddy can
Its like he was made to abuse them. The perfect glidetoss length, awesome dash attack, and great combos all allow him to abuse the banana
Even if other characters learn to catch/use our bananas, noone can do it as efficiently as diddy

 

[AvaricePanda]

If someone uses the argument that other people can catch our bananas, can't we say that Diddy can catch the bananas back too?

Plus, other characters won't know the extensive things their character can do with bananas because the only way for one of them to get bananas is:

1) They face a Diddy.
2) The Diddy slips up and lets you catch his naner.

So obviously, Diddy knows how to use naners better than anyone else. Granted, you may use naners less against people who can reflect/catch them easily (or you just use them more erratically and less obviously).

 

[PhantomX]

It's not hard to get accustomed to Bananas. If you really want to just practice with your character and naners you can go to training mode and sit there and do it. Or just play with a Diddy friend. You're going to grab the nanas sooner or later if that's what you go for, plus landing on a banana that's stationary and pressing Z as you do so is easy enough, lol.

I mean... I'm just saying. I managed to banana lock Fliphop into a fsmash this weekend with Wario >_>

 

[DMG]

But you didn't banana lock me :0

Where as I would grab you out of chomp, Fair you out of Chomp, grab you before you could grab me, SDI the tires HARD lol, and all sorts of stupid stuff. I remember after we played you probably felt almost like I was hacking Diddy lol. Some of that stuff was ridiculous though.

Oh and Diddy does have the potential to rise to #4 or higher. You just gotta play him differently.

 

[PhantomX]

But you didn't banana lock me :0

Where as I would grab you out of chomp, Fair you out of Chomp, grab you before you could grab me, SDI the tires HARD lol, and all sorts of stupid stuff. I remember after we played you probably felt almost like I was hacking Diddy lol. Some of that stuff was ridiculous though.

Oh and Diddy does have the potential to rise to #4 or higher. You just gotta play him differently.

Yeah, but that's you, not the character, and I still got a combo off on you as well, cuz you were like "****, that is NOT happening again!"

I'm just saying that other characters CAN use bananas just as well, this isn't factoring players being better than others.

 

[Player-1]

Yeah, but that's you, not the character, and I still got a combo off on you as well, cuz you were like "****, that is NOT happening again!"

I'm just saying that other characters CAN use bananas just as well, this isn't factoring players being better than others.

There isn't a single character that can use bananas as well as Diddy can, not even close, but I'm not saying that other characters can't use them and use them well, just not as well as Diddy can