Diddy Kong's Barrel of Matchups Character # 12 Snake

[Gnes]

I was exaggerating obviously...but in all seriousness.
Snake can grab after glide toss into his shield....d-throw>f-tilt is 31% by itself...what happens if he gets another d-throw...

naner>grab=15%. The point is the damage output of the characters is completely stacked....not to mention Snake lives twice at long. Who cares if ur taking 40% when ur living to 200%. However taking 20-30% when u only live to 110% is a different story.

 

[Attila_]

it never finishes with a nana to grab. and once snakes in the air, even if he manages to get back down, he shouldn't be able to camp for the rest of the stock. if diddy has two bananas, he can pressure snake well enough to disallow any setups, at which point, snake needs to get rid of those bananas. and given snake's atrocious item grab range, speed of jump (needed to instathrow off the ground, snake's jump is the slowest in the game) and dash attack/dacus lag after picking up an item, this really isn't easy to do.

if diddy can successfully pull two bananas and approach, that snake is gonna be in for a world of pain. if snake can keep diddy from setting up, however, he rules the mu. the mu can be defined this way, and as such, is dictated by the smallest of errors by each player. and in that sense, its even.

 

[tibs7]

Gnes don't bother with him...I've been telling him the exact same thing you just said and he will never listen.

Always saying snake should never get back after he's been knocked off which is really stupid, he thinks it's diddy adv too *sigh*...anyway don't bother he won't listen.

 

[Gnes]

it never finishes with a nana to grab. and once snakes in the air, even if he manages to get back down, he shouldn't be able to camp for the rest of the stock. if diddy has two bananas, he can pressure snake well enough to disallow any setups, at which point, snake needs to get rid of those bananas. and given snake's atrocious item grab range, speed of jump (needed to instathrow off the ground, snake's jump is the slowest in the game) and dash attack/dacus lag after picking up an item, this really isn't easy to do.

if diddy can successfully pull two bananas and approach, that snake is gonna be in for a world of pain. if snake can keep diddy from setting up, however, he rules the mu. the mu can be defined this way, and as such, is dictated by the smallest of errors by each player. and in that sense, its even.

So much wrong info. Go watch some ultimaterazer videos lol. I'm not about to theorycraft cuz that battle never ends, but i can safely after practicing with possibly the best snake in the world for more than year a now, your thinking in regards to the matchup is all wrong.

 

[TheLastCacely]

Gnes giving the business.


But someone tell me how to deal with snake nade camping lol

 

[Attila_]

care to comment on my incorrect info? its funny, as most of the info i gathered was from watching you two play. just for example, this match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa8D7fvGQyU&feature=related

i know its from july, but i havent been able to find anything more recent. 1st stock is exactly what im talking about. razer got knocked offstage relatively early, and wasn't able to recent his zone, meaning he was hit back and forth, never able to take control of the nanas or start to camp. i mean, it took a while to kill him, but it happened eventually, and without him being able to do much damage. the start of his next stock was much the same, although he got a lucky bair that ruined the momentum and allowed him to regain his zone. regardless of what you think the matchup is, you have to admit, this is much of how the match above played out.

 

[TheLastCacely]

rimshot,

chill, you're wrong.

That is all.

 

[Gnes]

care to comment on my incorrect info?

I dont even get what ur arguing anymore. First u say snake isn't good with naners, yet i can link(but choose not to)countless videos of razer using naners amazingly against top diddy's. Now your arguing that snake can't get back to the stage i guess once he's thrown off. Thats not a element of the matchup with diddy kong, thats a element of snake. EVERY character if their doing job should be comboing snake at low percents, BECAUSE he's heavy.

and i just realized, even with me completely outplaying razer that whole match...he still wins...I'm really not understanding why you linked that video. Its essentially saying even when diddy outplays snake, gets him lucky situations, and snake dies early, it'll still be a close fight lmao.

Ktm i gotta work out some stuff in that department, i think I'm gonna try something new against that. U can spot dodge them so they go behind u, or I try to jump over them and hit snake as he's throwing. Just find something that works for u.

 

[Attila_]

i linked the video because it illustrates my point; you knocked razer off the ledge early, set up, and disallowed him to resume his zone for the first full stock. a similar thing happened for most of the second stock.

and im not talking about combos, because they really don't exist in this game nor this mu. im talking about the act of breaking down his zone, and disallowing him to rebuild it.

more importantly, snake being able to rebuild a zone is particularly difficult in this mu, namely because diddy transverses the stage much quicker than most characters, and has a projectile that causes snake to be tech chased if he doesn't shield in time (or is landing). at which point, snake is left with no time or space to set up his defence. in fact, i'd say diddy punishes snake for going offstage the 3rd best in the game (mk and marth are worse).

people get caught in percents and damage, which are obviously important, but represent a small part of a much larger picture; zoning is often neglected. zoning, or the destruction of one's zone, will generally lead to a succession of hits that all combine to form a ko, and will do so much faster than individual punishing hits. how it seems to me, at least, is that snake's zone is very difficult to rebuild once its destroyed, while diddy can retreat and rebuild his without an overly large amount of difficulty.

dont get me wrong, i by no means am saying youre a bad player, cause you're considerably better than me, but i do think you're being a little simplistic about the mu. 'snake is heavy so he wins' is rather misleading and a definite over simplification.

 

[Player-1]

i'm saying he's bad player

 

[Gnes]

Lol p1 acting like he wins tourneys or something.
Im not being simplistic, ur just thinking too hard. It's alot more simple than u think.

And in regards to snakes zone, its not its hard for it to be created after its broken, its that in the instant its broken snake has the potential to get alot of damage. Once again, this is not exclusive diddy kong, but to snake as a whole. Yes diddy kong is fast, but if he doesn't have a naner u no way of being in danger considering snake outranges him in every single way. If he does, he literally has 4 options while 3 of them are all blocked by shield(4th being side B which can be jabbed/uptilted/grabbed). Not to mention naners can be uptilted through.

Breaking of a "zone" rarely leads to ko combo string, but obviously it could consequently lead to damage. And diddy by no means is able to handle snake off stage as well as chrs. like D3 Pikachu, ROB, among others...If snake is getting spiked by diddy u made a horrible mistake, everything else is like take one hit then recover.

But i sense theorycraft coming so this will be my last post regarding this. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but ur the first to ever have the audacity to say this matchup is even despite the common consensus.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I found something that might be helpful in the MU. Monkey flip kick doesn't blow up Snake's grenades. I don't know if this has to do with the way the snake throws them but when I kicked them, they did not blow up.

 

[TheLastCacely]

yea, u can kick through a mortar as well. it's weird lol

 

[Kaptain Kong]

i think it also depends on when you activate the kick/how decayed it is

 

[Sails]

My main training partners are Snakes, I can say I've kicked them and blown up before plenty of times

 

[Toneh]

I think weak attacks (not mk) dont set off the nades. Like when diddy or snake jabs them.

So if you hit with the weak part of flip kick then maybe they wont be set off? Mortars you just need high priority or a disjoint (not mk) to break em

 

[Player-1]

whenever i don't set off nades it's always when i hit with the very tip of my attack

 

[Toneh]

Like the ending of flip kick? Sounds like the weaker part

 

[Player-1]

no....the tip...

 

[Toneh]

If you try to f-smash a nade at the tip im pretty sure you'll explode lol. Maybe it also has to do with the beginning of snakes nade toss where it kinda clanks

 

[Player-1]

I never said that it was true, I'm just saying that anytime that I've ever hit a nade with a move and it not explode that it was at the tip of the move.

And for all you know it might only work with certain moves...

plus i'm pretty sure bananas are weak and they still blow up nades 100% of the time

 

[Toneh]

Dont nanas have transcendent priority like MK's sword. Then yeah it'll blow em up. Thats why i always said except mk.

 

[Attila_]

i think its attack specific. bananas will always blow them up, but other things, like the first hit of snake's nair or his jab1 will never blow them up. i've never noticed any real consistency, except that you can't explode nades in your control (this goes for diddy if he's picked up then thrown a nade also).