• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Diddy Kong's Barrel of Matchups Character # 12 Snake

chimpact

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,300
Location
South Jersey
3DS FC
0361-7166-1377

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:​
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Grab release to usmash

Grab release to dair

Grab release to fair



Pay attention to the fart timer (1:55 and it's fully charged, which has less kill potential than half charged, but does 42% damage).


Popgun him off of his bike whenever possible, he'll probably recover high so this opportunity won't present itself often.

Be unpredictable when he dthrows you! He can regrab, gatling combo, or merely bite you if he predicts your reaction.


Someone else can organize this info if they wish, I'm a bit strained for time so that's my "important info summary" for this match-up ;P




No editing, this is all guaranteed on Snake, I swear!!! XD
 

fource

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
1,476
Location
KCMO
NNID
LeThienWasMyHero
Haven't we done Wario? I remember writing a review for him.
 

Coyn3Masta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
355
Location
NJ
I guess its fine, just dekar and felix can edit their posts to prevent confusion. XD
 

Meta_Sonic64

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
3,239
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
Seeing as how we can throw a banana after 1 f-tilt hit, I say that would be useful. To me, you should avoid being too close to Snake and to avoid rolling around him. Avoid shielding Snake much, and try to prevent him from using his explosives by adding pressure with your banana game. I find that most Snakes like to shield glide tossed naners and I'm guessing that's a great way to utilise glide toss to grab. But honestly, I don't know what I'm talking about, I just play without thinking.
 

win_ftw

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
44
Location
the beach
LOL.

uhmmmm ive noticed standing throws are good, and if you can get the facial haired ******* into the air, thats a plus too.
 

white peachy

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
788
Location
Connecticut, USA
Little things. Everybody knows the big ideas of this matchup.

Careful when you grab pummel, if there's a nade, it negates your grab if you pummel.
Monkey humping is more useful in this matchup than some others. don't abuse it but, when snake is standing still that's a good time to use it. I also think it will go through utilt if spaced right, though I'm not positive.
Careful when you glide toss into his sheild, there will be a nade.
Grab to ground release at the edge.
There's no easy way to kill him, hopefully you get a gimp. Conversely, snake has about 20 different ways he can kill you.
Snakes tend to spot dodge a lot, pivot grabs can help sometimes.
 

andilex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
247
Location
(RGV)
3DS FC
0232-8508-7675
omg. i hate this matchup,
wat do u do to get through the camping,

and the boost smash he has is annoying,
 

ChocoNaner

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
469
Location
SoCal :I
Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other: Diddy wins here, somehow. Only problem you'll have here is the hurtbox from Snake's Bair lasts for some time and if they FF it'll get ya, maybe not hard but it'll hit. Nair is dangerous if Snake uses it from under you, and as an edgeguard. Diddy's Fair beats Bair from the front, beats Nair/trades hits(depends on how fast u can make Fair come out). Bair is outranged by Snake's Nair and Bair, and I think Fair but comes out faster than all of them. Uair is awesome in this MU.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other: Here it's even. Whichever character can get stage control and the other into the air will dominate the time the other is airborne. Approaching through ground with naners if the Snake likes to use nades is not something I'd recommend. Grabbing ***** nade-lovers. If they play defensively, nades camp+Ftilt/grabs when u approach, 2 naners aggro+patient strat should work. Mortar sliding is shieldgrab-able, if not OoS Bair works, or hyphen smash too iirc. U need to know what strats to use against their strats, that's what's keeping this ground game battle even.

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Utilt: Perfect shielding, and unless u have a naner at hand that u can throw OoS, gtfo out of there. The hitbox is rtarded, remember that, be careful when ur around 100-110%, that's when it starts KOing.

Ftilt: Shielding, same with Ftilt, though I think u can punish it with a dash attack+/or hyphen smash if you're fast enough. Dtilt cancels out Ftilt but SNake gets an assured Ftilt or Utilt on u if u do, I think.

Nair: DON'T AIRDODGE THIS IF THE ATTACK IS BARELY COMING OUT(1st or 2nd kick). When Snake is coming out with an Nair from under u, shield it, don't try shieldgrabbing, Dtilting, anything at all. Being on the same ground level as Snake will keep u safe for the most part against Nair, if u don't **** up.

Bair: Shield on the ground. Airdodge towards him in the air, take the weak hit instead of the strong hit if anything. Umm, when grounded u can OoS Bair to hit him, but grabbing is probably a better option.

Nades: Halt any attacks, sub grabs for everything when ur close. When ur at a somewhat close distance(enough to stay out of range of a nade's explosion) throw naners like there's no tomorrow.

Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Dtilt
Bair
Fair
Fsmash at low %s for damage building
Dsmash for KOing
Usmash
Utilt
Uair at high %s, don't decay it for damage at low %s

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Grabs vs. nade lovers
Aggro aerial naner barrage for nade camper that abuse Ftilt/grabs
Aerial+ grabs and minimum naner use vs. mad campy Snakes, mortar slides used rarely, and grabbers

Overall Character Ratio:
50-50 Snake's favor

Roight? D:
 

Sinz

The only true DR vet.
Premium
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
8,189
Alright what Snake has on Diddy
+Better Killing Power
+Nades
+Tilts
+Range
+Recovery

What Snake has a disadvantage with.
-Recovery(gimpable.)
-tripping
-Juggling
-Speed
-and Diddy's recovery.

Stages to bring Snake:
FD
Smashville
Delphino Plaza

Tidbits from Sinz's mind
Your bananas are your saving grace in this match up. They punish everything Snake does. However, Snake has his grenades. Which he will be using more in this match up than you think. His grenades mess with your spacing, nanas, and all of your ground moves. All of your ground attacks blows them up.
However, don't be scared of the nades. You can snipe them, instant throw them back(if you instant throw them back, make sure to check that he isn't grenade stripping).

The sooner you can get Snake off of the stage the better, he is a coward in the air. He doesn't prefer it, he fears it.

In the lower percentages you want to get a nana into two dtilts into a throw. This is an easy 30 percent. It sets you up into a good position.
In the mid percents, you need to get your nana to fsmash, fthrow, and bthrow. Just build up the damage. Combo him with nanas if you can. At the higher percents(but not high enough to kill him yet.) Do up throws, you can keep him in the air, but watch out for C4 drops. Once Snake is in the higher percentages you can throw him off the stage and just keep him out. Fair ***** the Cypher, as does the Dair. Every bit of damage counts in this match up.

When Snake is in the air, he will try to mix it up with grenade reversals, c4 reversals, Nairs(usually, occasionally the others.) and air dodges. You can snipe the nades, and you can punish his C4 usage just by hitting him. Predict his recovery patterns and you can overtake him. Most Snakes tend to Nade reverse right before they land. It is fairly obvious if they are going to do an attack.

Snake's Moveset
Ftilt the two hit combo, you can punish with a nana as has been stated by ADHD.

Jab, SDI away and shield the third hit.

Uptilt, Dekar has the specific DI on this.

Dtilt, don't worry about it.

Dash Attack- this is the main problem guy. He can pick up a banana, and he can get a mortar out of it. This is Snakes main approach, if he approaches. If he mortar slides, hit him with the other banana. Mortar Slide is not a safe option in this match up. A smarter Snake just does the Dash attack unless he is certain he will be out of Diddy's range.

Nair, You can sdi out of this, just learn the SDI for it. Occasionally you can even uair or barrel roll out of it.

Uair. This move sometimes comes out of nowhere, but use your common sense, the Snake is jumping up and I am above him. He is gonna Uair.

Bair. This move has enough lag for you to punish it and have a good day. It can get surprise kills though.

Dair. This is one of the most commonly used moves from the ledge. They will Jump from the ledge and use this. It is midly safe, just read the Snake and limit his options.

Nades- Snipe em, throw em back, and don't fear them. However, still be careful. If you are going to pummel, make sure there isn't a nade there. If you aren't sure, just throw the guy.

C4- Keep track of these and watch the timer. They detonate after about 25 seconds or something like that.

Mine- Nana blows it up, but you can nana lock Snake into these for a little bit of extra damage.

Nikita- if they use it, be happy.

Diddy's Gimps
Nana locking to Spike. Get a good double lock and grab him a bit before the ledge and just pummel. Just pummel til he grab releases. He will fall, and you will spike him, and fair him. Either way he is in a bad position. Most of all make sure to not let him grab that ledge.

Diddy Hump. If you grab onto Snake during his up b do not attack. He will break out and be unable to use his Cypher again.

Grab Release to Spike- Pummel him along the ledge and have him drop, and you spike him.

Cypher Grabbing- Do it.

Getting around his camping
his primary camping is going to be done with Nades. If he is smart he is going to try to cook them. Get up in his face with both nana's. You can bait him out by placing a nana closer to him(but with a little bit of distance still.) so that he will dash attack and hopefully mortar slide. Which gives you a free trip and (insert move here.). Instant throw his nades back at him. If the Snake is planning on stripping them. Just avoid them. Just jump past them and trip him up. Diddy hump is also pretty good vs Snake's camping. Most of the time he will try to Nade> Spotdodge. Which is fast enough for you to still hit him with your side b.

I am going tot leave this post here. I don't think I am done yet.
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
Diddy's recovery is stupid, you can gimp it with grenades, bair, or anything if you just force him to up-B.

If you aren't gimping the Diddy at least 1/2 of the amount he is gimping you, you are doing it wrong.
 

Sinz

The only true DR vet.
Premium
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
8,189
Or he is doing something right.
 

ChocoNaner

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
469
Location
SoCal :I
Monkey hump is undefeatable. It's the reason only the characters with the best air game dare to go out to try and gimp Didds. Barrels are the opposite. It's why the MU vs. MK, Kirby, and even Jiggz doesn't go 60-40, monkey hump makes up for the barrel's vulnerability. Something like that.
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
Wait for monkey hump.....profit?

I face a Diddy I'd like to think of as good (he just beat MikeHaze last Saturday...) and I still gimp him.

Monkey hump has a certain range, and a certain amount of grab frames. Learn the spacing on it. They can only use it once til you hit them.
 

tibs7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
2,886
so susa does the whole gimping thing make it snakes advantage?
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
As has been told to me both through PM and on Youtube, I just lacked a proper gameplan when I went up against Mike. He's way too good to sit there and autopilot, and that's exactly what I did, I mindlessly approached hoping to outtechnical him as opposed to outplaying him. Mike really doesn't know the match-up as well as he knows the Snake/MK match-ups, let me know if your buddy does half as well against him when he DOES learn the match-up ;P

On topic: Sinz hit it on the head. Another thing that Diddys MUST learn to do: SNL > spike. Snake IS one of the more difficult characters to perform single naner locking on, BUT, against him it is quite a bit more rewarding than against other characters, due to his linear recovery (and funnily enough, due to his heavy weight).

At low percents the naner lock leads into a footstool, meaning 0-death boy! At higher percents, you don't NEED to footstool, as it kills him anyway! XD SNL = too good.
 

andilex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
247
Location
(RGV)
3DS FC
0232-8508-7675
i hate it wen snake holds the nade and u get punished, cuz it hits both of you,

and also wen u go after snakes, some pull out their spike,
and that get diddy,

i love u dekar,
teach me this matchup.

ive gotten way better,
i can beat broly now,
do well at hobo,

lets exchange info
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
Sinz said:
Nair, You can sdi out of this, just learn the SDI for it. Occasionally you can even uair or barrel roll out of it.
LMAO
Am I the only one that saw this ? XD
(much better name than rocketbarrel cancelling, no johns)

Snake -> It's just that you can't really kill him, but since he gets comboed, unlike luigi, this is no problem. And we have SNL-Spike <3
I'm bad at ratios, it's still snake adv imo, he's better on cps. But he's too fun <3
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8342286&postcount=1119

I'd say it's 55-45 Snake, on every single stage except FD.

We live forever, but you are one of the few characters who can combo us at any %. Bananas blow up grenades, sometimes in our face (I haven't seen anyone who hasn't made this mistake... I know it happens, but still let it happen to me)
You are light, we kill you early. We can use bananas against you, getting you to 113% truthfully isn't hard. It's actually landing our KO move. So you should be living decently long, just don't get frustrated by your %'s and you'll do better from my experience.

If we win on FD, you were doing something wrong. <_< Then again, if we were even playing on FD. Something was wrong to begin with.

/has never won a match on FD, even against only 'decent' Diddy's so that's pretty biased. lmao
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
dunno susa you might just be playing the matchup bad on that stage because it doesn't seem like it would work all that well for diddy

I honestly think its even because the matchup is just diddy and snake doing ******** things to each other back and forth, gimps, low percent kills, snake getting the **** juggled out of him, etc. A defensive diddy can take on a snake pretty well if he's smart
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
Panda also lost to ADHD on FD.

I know plenty of people who lose on FD, and no other stage is better then FD for against Snake....
I'm suprised to see you say that actually. I thought you were one of the people promoting that snake could out camp everything in the game or something like that.

sure its a good stage but its not like you need to mention that it might give diddy the favor, every matchup has stages that favor one or the other, just because one of those is a neutral this time around doesn't mean you need to mention 50/50 on everywhere except FD you know.
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
It's not that outcamping is the issue. Diddy is one of 3 characters (imo) that is good at avoiding Snake's camping. Albeit he won't get anywhere, and one mistake means he is hit. He can avoid it. That being said, Diddy can't really outcamp Snake anywhere but Norfair. Everywhere else it's about even (so long as Diddy has a banana in hand) and that is only because bananas blow up grenades (which I find stupid)

If you want to outcamp, CP Norfair, hit Snake once and run from side to side of the stage avoiding explosives. Poking in hits when you can.

Smashville's platform is a huge bonus to Snake, the platform can save both players, and I still feel it's Snake's advantage there.

We have nothing to abuse on FD. Platforms tend to help us in matches vs Diddy (Norfair being the only exception)

@NaPPy
I'm stating that it's 55-45 Snake, but FD gives better bonuses to Diddy then to Snake onto a scale that would push it even or slightly in Diddy's favor.

@Player-1
I can find plenty more examples. That being said, we should be banning FD anyways.
 

Gnes

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
3,666
Location
In Another Dimension...
I wonder if Wyatt will ever post his thoughts in here. This thread is like the bane of his existance.

Personally i think the matchup is 60-40...but thats me.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
****, I was reading wht you were saying wrong susa. Good **** I say copy pasta everything he said into the op :p
 

andilex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
247
Location
(RGV)
3DS FC
0232-8508-7675
i found out if u diddy hump snake at first stock, its an automatic win,

cuz he willl slowly die of the aids u spreaded to him

:p
 

mikeHAZE

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
11,004
Location
North Hollywood, CA
As has been told to me both through PM and on Youtube, I just lacked a proper gameplan when I went up against Mike. He's way too good to sit there and autopilot, and that's exactly what I did, I mindlessly approached hoping to outtechnical him as opposed to outplaying him. Mike really doesn't know the match-up as well as he knows the Snake/MK match-ups, let me know if your buddy does half as well against him when he DOES learn the match-up ;P
.
i beat him 2-0 the next day for you.
 
Top Bottom