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Diddy Kong Appreciation Thread: From Dinky to Diddy, From the Jungle to the Brawl.

Diddy Kong

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No clones plz.

Chief Mendez please don't forget that there are 2 DK games in development which look very promising. DK Jet and DK King of Swing DS. Besides, DKR DS sold really well which gave Diddy a bit more populairity.

True, the DK franchise will never be as good anymore in the SNES Rare days but I'm still looking forward to what PAON offers us. It's not like Jungle Beat will be the franchise's future.
 

liamdamonkey

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Note the: "If it was realistic"

But i see how having that many DK characters would be kinda stupid. Speaking of stupid: just imagine Lanky Kong in the game..o god that would never work. But, how many DK characters is too much? Right now in reality i'm thinking 4 is gonna be it for brawl: Donkey, Diddy, Dixie and K.Rool.

Funky as a DK clone would be hated. Any clone in Brawl will be hated in my opinion. I think the whole idea of cloned characters will be dropped in brawl, and popular clone charcters (roy, ganondorf) will be luigified for brawl.

And is Diddy's enterance gonna be the same as DK's? With a barrel?
 

Chief Mendez

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No clones plz.

Chief Mendez please don't forget that there are 2 DK games in development which look very promising. DK Jet and DK King of Swing DS. Besides, DKR DS sold really well which gave Diddy a bit more populairity.

True, the DK franchise will never be as good anymore in the SNES Rare days but I'm still looking forward to what PAON offers us. It's not like Jungle Beat will be the franchise's future.
Bongo Blast doesn't even support the **** bongos. Nuff' said. And I think the KoS games are more like a sidedish to the main platforming games (much in the same way that Mario Tennis is a side to Sunshine). Also, if they used Jungle Beat as a foundation for a new set of DK games, I'd just about die of joy overload.

But that's beside the point. What I mean is that the DKC games, and by proxy the Rare characters like Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool, are long past their prime. A lot of current gamers don't know their Kremlings from their Klap Traps. Basically, I think 4 characters is a bit of a stretch, especially when two of the suggested (Dixie and K. Rool) are horrible cliches. I think Diddy's enough of a complement for Donkey Kong.

liamdamonkey said:
Note the: "If it was realistic"

But i see how having that many DK characters would be kinda stupid. Speaking of stupid: just imagine Lanky Kong in the game..o god that would never work. But, how many DK characters is too much? Right now in reality i'm thinking 4 is gonna be it for brawl: Donkey, Diddy, Dixie and K.Rool.

Funky as a DK clone would be hated. Any clone in Brawl will be hated in my opinion. I think the whole idea of cloned characters will be dropped in brawl, and popular clone charcters (roy, ganondorf) will be luigified for brawl.

And is Diddy's enterance gonna be the same as DK's? With a barrel?
Yes, "If it were realistic" would imply that you think it's going to happen.

I still say Diddy and Donkey will work fine. We don't need a pun-based villain with pinkeye and the atypical "kid sister".

Let's all hope for the banishment of clones, or at least, as you say, Luigi clones. And what's that last sentence about, exactly?
 

Diddy Kong

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Bongo Blast doesn't even support the **** bongos. Nuff' said. And I think the KoS games are more like a sidedish to the main platforming games (much in the same way that Mario Tennis is a side to Sunshine). Also, if they used Jungle Beat as a foundation for a new set of DK games, I'd just about die of joy overload.
Dude, **** the Bongo's... >_> The game supports the Wii Mote now, what a suprise for a Wii game. The Bongo's are in my opinion the things which hurted the DK franchise even more cause Nintendo desperatley wanted to make more unique games.

And no, the KoS games aren't sideish at all! I love PAON for finally making a REAL unique DK game with alot of respect towards Rare's DKC characters. Just look at Jungle Beat, everything was replaced on supose... Why? Cause the characters wheren't "fresh" enough... Ohh please. >_<; Like Mario or Yoshi is anything fresh...

I would HATE Nintendo if they made Jungle Beat the new set of DK games. Which is very unlikely since the "sequel" to Jungle Beat will only be in arcades.

But that's beside the point. What I mean is that the DKC games, and by proxy the Rare characters like Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool, are long past their prime. A lot of current gamers don't know their Kremlings from their Klap Traps. Basically, I think 4 characters is a bit of a stretch, especially when two of the suggested (Dixie and K. Rool) are horrible cliches. I think Diddy's enough of a complement for Donkey Kong.
Same could be said about any game. Besides, Diddy isn't far from his prime, you remember Diddy Kong Racing DS? Sure a Kremling isn't as regonisable like let's say a Koopa but then again I say the Kremlings and Klap Traps are more regonisable than let's say Kirby's Waddle Dees.

And why are Dixie and K.Rool cliché? Perhaps K.Rool, but Dixie no way. She was the second "real" Nintendo herione besides Samus and the press was really excited about her around the time DKC2 was released. She also can fly with her ponytail which is also very unique. K.Rool just switches from apperance and style every game, which very few villians do. So far as I know, battles versus Bowser are very one sided. He'll always shoot fire at you for example, or King DeDeDe who'll always try to crush Kirby with his hammer. The only thing cliché about K.Rool is perhaps that he's a reptile and people just KEEP on comparing him to Bowser...

Still, I would be pleased already with only DK and Diddy.

Yes, "If it were realistic" would imply that you think it's going to happen.

I still say Diddy and Donkey will work fine. We don't need a pun-based villain with pinkeye and the atypical "kid sister".
Funny, how K.Rool and Dixie would be far more unique than DK or Diddy...
 

The Director

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I think DK, Diddy, Dixie and K. Rool would be the best choices from the DK franchise...four sounds a little unrealistic, though.

Dk, Diddy and Dixie could work perfectly.
 

Chief Mendez

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Dude, **** the Bongo's... >_> The game supports the Wii Mote now, what a suprise for a Wii game. The Bongo's are in my opinion the things which hurted the DK franchise even more cause Nintendo desperatley wanted to make more unique games.

And no, the KoS games aren't sideish at all! I love PAON for finally making a REAL unique DK game with alot of respect towards Rare's DKC characters. Just look at Jungle Beat, everything was replaced on supose... Why? Cause the characters wheren't "fresh" enough... Ohh please. >_<; Like Mario or Yoshi is anything fresh...

I would HATE Nintendo if they made Jungle Beat the new set of DK games. Which is very unlikely since the "sequel" to Jungle Beat will only be in arcades.
Hey, nothing compares to the feel of two plastic bongos being torn apart by your furious hands during a platinum medal run on Jungle Beat. Anyway, I can argue why JB's the best DK game of all time til' I'm blue in the face, but methinks that's getting off-topic. One last thing though: that "sequel" as you call it is DK Jungle Fever, which was already released in arcades a year ago, andwas basically just a port of Jungle Beat, only with four extra kingdoms, and a versus mode.

Diddy Kong said:
Same could be said about any game. Besides, Diddy isn't far from his prime, you remember Diddy Kong Racing DS?
I hardly think a badly done DS port puts a character back in 'prime' status.

Diddy Kong said:
Sure a Kremling isn't as regonisable like let's say a Koopa but then again I say the Kremlings and Klap Traps are more regonisable than let's say Kirby's Waddle Dees.
You're probably right about that, but I think you see my point; the DKC games aren't what anyone would call mainstream. "So what?" you may say. "It's not like Kid Icarus is a real popular game these days." Well, yeah, but that's probably why there's only one character from the game in Brawl. Think about it: in Melee, what Zelda characters were included? Characters from the most recent, comparitively popular game in the franchise. We didn't get fan-favorites like Blind, Aganihm, Mikau, or any Link not from Ocarina.

Now it seems I've fixed myself. If my thinking is correct, then we'll see characters from the most popular DK game, which is probably one of the Countries, in Brawl. This would include K. Rool and Dixie, true. But here's where the whole "past it's prime" idea comes into play. As an example, let's look at Twilight Princess.

Ocarina of Time is easily the most bought Zelda of all time. Greatly surpassing Majora's Mask in terms of sales and fanaticism, despite Majora being a more well-conceived experience. Which one got into Melee? Ocarina. Now we come to Brawl, and it seems that the Zelda characters will primarily be drawn from Twilight Princess, in spite of the fact that the game has basically flopped in Japan, and (contrary to what 99% of the American population would have you expect) that it has some glaring problems. Ocarina's still probably the best, most loved Zelda. It's like perfection in a cart. So why would Nintendo use TP asa draw? Because Ocarina is past it's prime. It's been released a total of 5 times in America alone, and anyone who's everyone has already played it. Thus, Nintendo ditches it in favor of a new source.

What was I talking about again? Oh yeah, DKC. So what happens when a game is past it's prime, but has no recent game in the same franchise to replace it? It's used as a source, but not as heavily. Pitting Dixie and K. Rool against Mario and Luigi in 1995 would have caused a nationwide phenomenon, but now, it would only serve to dredge up characters who haven't taken any significant part in Nintendo history over the past decade to budge out more original characters who would otherwise (unjustly) never be heard from again.

Phew.

Diddy Kong said:
And why are Dixie and K.Rool cliché? Perhaps K.Rool, but Dixie no way. She was the second "real" Nintendo herione besides Samus and the press was really excited about her around the time DKC2 was released. She also can fly with her ponytail which is also very unique. K.Rool just switches from apperance and style every game, which very few villians do. So far as I know, battles versus Bowser are very one sided. He'll always shoot fire at you for example, or King DeDeDe who'll always try to crush Kirby with his hammer. The only thing cliché about K.Rool is perhaps that he's a reptile and people just KEEP on comparing him to Bowser...
Remove the period from "K. Rool". Get it? That's a pun, aka the first sign of a generic villain.

"She was the second "real" Nintendo herione besides Samus"...or, she was a tacked-on character created so the Donkey Kong universe would have a girl in it besides the furry-wannabe that is Candy. Gender equality and all that. Seriously, why is it that I seem to be the only one who sees that 99% of Rare's Kongs are pulled straight from the pages of "Encyclopedia Generia".

Diddy Kong said:
Still, I would be pleased already with only DK and Diddy.
Let's hope.:p
 

Johnknight1

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Hey, nothing compares to the feel of two plastic bongos being torn apart by your furious hands during a platinum medal run on Jungle Beat. Anyway, I can argue why JB's the best DK game of all time til' I'm blue in the face, but methinks that's getting off-topic. One last thing though: that "sequel" as you call it is DK Jungle Fever, which was already released in arcades a year ago, andwas basically just a port of Jungle Beat, only with four extra kingdoms, and a versus mode.

I hardly think a badly done DS port puts a character back in 'prime' status.

You're probably right about that, but I think you see my point; the DKC games aren't what anyone would call mainstream. "So what?" you may say. "It's not like Kid Icarus is a real popular game these days." Well, yeah, but that's probably why there's only one character from the game in Brawl. Think about it: in Melee, what Zelda characters were included? Characters from the most recent, comparitively popular game in the franchise. We didn't get fan-favorites like Blind, Aganihm, Mikau, or any Link not from Ocarina.

Now it seems I've fixed myself. If my thinking is correct, then we'll see characters from the most popular DK game, which is probably one of the Countries, in Brawl. This would include K. Rool and Dixie, true. But here's where the whole "past it's prime" idea comes into play. As an example, let's look at Twilight Princess.

Ocarina of Time is easily the most bought Zelda of all time. Greatly surpassing Majora's Mask in terms of sales and fanaticism, despite Majora being a more well-conceived experience. Which one got into Melee? Ocarina. Now we come to Brawl, and it seems that the Zelda characters will primarily be drawn from Twilight Princess, in spite of the fact that the game has basically flopped in Japan, and (contrary to what 99% of the American population would have you expect) that it has some glaring problems. Ocarina's still probably the best, most loved Zelda. It's like perfection in a cart. So why would Nintendo use TP asa draw? Because Ocarina is past it's prime. It's been released a total of 5 times in America alone, and anyone who's everyone has already played it. Thus, Nintendo ditches it in favor of a new source.

What was I talking about again? Oh yeah, DKC. So what happens when a game is past it's prime, but has no recent game in the same franchise to replace it? It's used as a source, but not as heavily. Pitting Dixie and K. Rool against Mario and Luigi in 1995 would have caused a nationwide phenomenon, but now, it would only serve to dredge up characters who haven't taken any significant part in Nintendo history over the past decade to budge out more original characters who would otherwise (unjustly) never be heard from again.
Lol, the only reason no ALTTP characters ever got into the SSB series is it is highly underrated, and there were a lot of noobs going around when Majora's Mask was coming out, saying "hey tLOZ 2 is coming out soon". Plus ALTTP is unknown to some LOZ "fans", and ALTTP shold a bit less than half the units of OOT, even if it was the #5 selling game on the SNES.

Also ALTTP had no real good fighting characters, Aghamin was just a mage, Blind was just a boss, (who Mikau that) have very inimportant rolls in the series. Lol, ALTTP is followed closely behind in number of sales by DKC2, and DKC1 was #2 on the SNES at 8.3 million units, more than OOT, lol. Woah, didn' realize DKC did that well in sales!

Lol, and there are too many Majora's Mask haters=angry me! That game was just a tad bit worse than OOT, but it was still one of the best in the series, but again people were mad cause it "strayed too far". HAHA love it when people say that, like they want their fav games re-released, without a sequal, lol! :laugh: Kinda funny, people just want the same game without a new battle system, or any upgrades to the battle system, lol! :laugh:

HAHA Twilight Princess blows OOT out of the water! Few problems (what do you mean by glarring problems?, because there are none in either the GCN or Wii version, in which I own both), I could point out more in OOT, or basically any game that TP. TP>OOT=ALTTP, and OOT is nowhere near past its prime, it is just Twilight Princess is the next real big zelda title, and could even surpase OOT in sales. The only real problem it has is well...it isn't too hard (why can't there be mroe challenging games LOZ games like ALTTP or even...Zelda II...:psycho:)

In fact about 90% of U.S. Wii owners have Twilight Princess, while about (if even) 1/3rd of N64 owners have OOT. It is easily the best LOZ game IMO, surpassing my old favs OOT and ALTTP! Twilight Princess has also been better rated by more gaming raters, has been called the second coming of OOT (or the 3rd coming of *cough* ALTTP), and has sold very well in the US. Plus hey, it is newer, better, and all around better than every game in the series, even if WW has the most replay value.

DKR DS was sorta a bad port, but the next 2 DK games look good. HAHA. Still, King of Swing was the best thing since DK64, and KoS DS looks even better. I'm not sure how the DK series is doing, or which direction it is headed, but let us hope Nintendo makes a game other than KoS with the DKC/DK64 style of gameplay, even if Jungle Beat was somewat good IMO.

Still, 4 characters isn't crazy, but Diddy and Dixie should be expected, period. K Rool, well i don't know which way he would go, but K. Rool should dfinitely be considered, and isn't in or out of making a appearance in SSBB yet (even if the SSB series lacks villians=ya :ohwell:)....
 

Chief Mendez

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If custom enterances are coming back in brawl, what do you think Diddy's would be? (sorry I didn't really make that clear)
Well, I personally don't think they'll be back. There's this whole pseudo-meta-subconscious-timing issue that goes along with the personal entrances, and I just think the way Melee handles it works fine.

But hypothetically, if they were to return, I'd see a barrel being thrown laterally onto the stage and Diddy bursting out.

Johnknight1: The 'glaring problems' of Twilight Princess are that the story completely dies after the Arbiter's Grounds and only picks up again four dungeons later, the new tools (Spinner and Ball & Chain, notably) are not used to any worthwhile capacity outside of their respective dungeons and maybe a Poe hunt or two, and finally, Hyrule Field is a disconnected jumble. That last part's more of a pet peeve of mine, but after playing Windwaker and Shadow of the Colossus, the segmented structure of TP's overworld feels backwards. But the story was poo compared to WW. Likewise, WW's gameplay isn't up to TP standards. Ocarina's still the only Zelda to hit that perfect mix of story, pacing, and gameplay.
 

nuro

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There is so much discussion about clones and whatnot its kind of sickening. People need to just realize that in the end it is up to the designers to put what they want in the game.

Clones were only put in the game in order to make characters at a faster rate. We can blatantly see this with Doctor Mario. It may be likely that they will decide to add clones again. Although, I am not sure if Diddy will be one.

Anyways, I think Diddy should be a solo character and Sakurai should make Dixie/Kiddy Kong duel characters ala Ice Climbers.

Although, I heard that Sakurai was discussing how he liked the idea of making Diddy/Dixie Kong into duel characters. Oh well, I guess only time will tell.
 

Chief Mendez

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There is so much discussion about clones and whatnot its kind of sickening. People need to just realize that in the end it is up to the designers to put what they want in the game.

Clones were only put in the game in order to make characters at a faster rate. We can blatantly see this with Doctor Mario. It may be likely that they will decide to add clones again. Although, I am not sure if Diddy will be one.

Anyways, I think Diddy should be a solo character and Sakurai should make Dixie/Kiddy Kong duel characters ala Ice Climbers.

Although, I heard that Sakurai was discussing how he liked the idea of making Diddy/Dixie Kong into duel characters. Oh well, I guess only time will tell.
Well you heard wrong: what you have before you is thousands of Smash nerds fervently translating every word that emerges out of the man's mouth. If he ever said that, we'd all know.

Also, methinks we all know the final game is totally in the dev's capable hands; we're just partaking in some harmless debate here. So just calm down, and relax.
 

Diddy Kong

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Hey, nothing compares to the feel of two plastic bongos being torn apart by your furious hands during a platinum medal run on Jungle Beat. Anyway, I can argue why JB's the best DK game of all time til' I'm blue in the face, but methinks that's getting off-topic. One last thing though: that "sequel" as you call it is DK Jungle Fever, which was already released in arcades a year ago, andwas basically just a port of Jungle Beat, only with four extra kingdoms, and a versus mode.
First of all; god ****, I've already once totally quoted this post but then internet connection problems turned up...

And then second, I don't think the Bongo games are that exhausting at all. I can tell out of experience, since even though I didn't liked the game. I completely finished every Kingdom properly in Jungle Beat with every platinum medal, so I could atleast give a proper opionion about it.

Wii is the future of Nintendo and so is the Wii Mote, and Wii Sports (or atleast Wii Boxing) is a lot more exhausting than Jungle Beat or every single Konga game. Also, DK Jet has lots of more features than Jungle Beat has, like punching and barrel throwing and using items so it's a little too complex for the Bongo's anyways (atleast I think).

Never knew that Jungle Beat was actually ported. But that prooves my point on Jungle Beat not being the new DK standards even more, since now after a 3rd game I think the DKJB-like games will never see light on a console again. Still the versus mode sounds nice, I actually enjoyed most of the fights between the other gorillas in JB.

I hardly think a badly done DS port puts a character back in 'prime' status.
Many people will disagree with you here. Even though review sites only speak **** about the game, it has a very big fanbase and has AWESOME online play! The game feels and plays exactly like the N64 version, but with more extra's, features, good usage of the touch screen and an overall much better multiplayer mode makes DKR DS a very good racer, I daresay even BETTER than MKDS. But just look at what GameSpot has to say about it!

GameSpot said:
Diddy Kong Racing DS is a decent racer with plenty to do and some interesting new content, but the seemingly endless number of tasks you must complete to enjoy all of it may irritate anyone who simply wants to race.
Isn't that just a good thing!? I mean, just hear them complain about how Twilight Princess had NOTHING to do in the overworld and still giving it a healthy 8+ (out of my head). These ratings are just baised.

You're probably right about that, but I think you see my point; the DKC games aren't what anyone would call mainstream. "So what?" you may say. "It's not like Kid Icarus is a real popular game these days." Well, yeah, but that's probably why there's only one character from the game in Brawl. Think about it: in Melee, what Zelda characters were included? Characters from the most recent, comparitively popular game in the franchise. We didn't get fan-favorites like Blind, Aganihm, Mikau, or any Link not from Ocarina.
So what do you want for Brawl? Dread Kong? Please get real... Besides, it's not like Jungle Beat is the morst recent and most populair game in the franchise even good old'e DKC1 did better on the GBA. DOn't forget about the DKC characters in the Konga's, KoS and the upcomming games; DK Jet and KoS DS and then I'm not even counting the 3 DKC KONG characters Diddy Kong Racing DS had and the new courses all resambling DKC alot...

Now it seems I've fixed myself. If my thinking is correct, then we'll see characters from the most popular DK game, which is probably one of the Countries, in Brawl. This would include K. Rool and Dixie, true. But here's where the whole "past it's prime" idea comes into play. As an example, let's look at Twilight Princess.

Ocarina of Time is easily the most bought Zelda of all time. Greatly surpassing Majora's Mask in terms of sales and fanaticism, despite Majora being a more well-conceived experience. Which one got into Melee? Ocarina. Now we come to Brawl, and it seems that the Zelda characters will primarily be drawn from Twilight Princess, in spite of the fact that the game has basically flopped in Japan, and (contrary to what 99% of the American population would have you expect) that it has some glaring problems. Ocarina's still probably the best, most loved Zelda. It's like perfection in a cart. So why would Nintendo use TP asa draw? Because Ocarina is past it's prime. It's been released a total of 5 times in America alone, and anyone who's everyone has already played it. Thus, Nintendo ditches it in favor of a new source.
Yeah, but Twilight Princess is a whole diffrent gerne than DKC. Twilight Princess is a 3D action adventure game, so it has A LOT of concurents. DKC however is a game of a dying sort; 2D action platformers. I can't remember any game of that gerne since New Super Mario Bros.

Also keep in mind that people demand more and more from 3D action adventures while DKC even after these 12 years is still a very fun game to play. Go ahead and play OoT yourself again, you'll see TP is actually better since the gerne itself developed more... OoT was good at it's time, excelent even but it simply wouldn't be as good anymore if it where to be released like this these times. DKC would, prooved with GBA ports.

What was I talking about again? Oh yeah, DKC. So what happens when a game is past it's prime, but has no recent game in the same franchise to replace it? It's used as a source, but not as heavily. Pitting Dixie and K. Rool against Mario and Luigi in 1995 would have caused a nationwide phenomenon, but now, it would only serve to dredge up characters who haven't taken any significant part in Nintendo history over the past decade to budge out more original characters who would otherwise (unjustly) never be heard from again.
Then again, PAON and their DK Jet and King of Swing brings hope and both have Dixie and K.Rool. Most likely PAON will be hired for Nintendo's Donkey Kong team and we'll never see any crap as Jungle Beat again.

Also, Mario never got back in his 'prime' status from Super Mario World cause of Mario Sunshine, Mario Power Tennis or Mario Golf ToadStool Tour either.

Yeah indeed.

Remove the period from "K. Rool". Get it? That's a pun, aka the first sign of a generic villain.
And what does Bowser look like? He's even called King KOOPA in Japan, prooves that he's more generic.

"She was the second "real" Nintendo herione besides Samus"...or, she was a tacked-on character created so the Donkey Kong universe would have a girl in it besides the furry-wannabe that is Candy. Gender equality and all that. Seriously, why is it that I seem to be the only one who sees that 99% of Rare's Kongs are pulled straight from the pages of "Encyclopedia Generia".
Ohh yeah, DKC has a kick *** female herione without gaint boobs and because of that she must be bashed... >_> Candy was a joke character which represented the typical "hot chick" (to be sure; I don't find her attractive myself or any other videogame character) stereotype in the Nineties much like Funky Kong and the surfer stereotype. Dixie is unique, since the most female characters back then where the typical GENERIC damsell in pink dress character much like Peach and Zelda which where both in Melee...

And why's DKC generic? Cause it has animals? C'mon, a Koopa is ATLEAST as generic as a Kremling maybe even more! Kremling where given diffrent colors and could stand on 2 legs unlike crocodiles or aligators, Koopa's like real turtles couldn't. Besides, the game wasn't ment to be as cartoony as Mario anyways so it doesn't even mather. Is let's say, a World War 2 shooter game generic cause you shoot generic German soldiers? Don't think so!

Let's hope.:p
Yup, K.Rool would still be AWESOME though. Better than any Jungle Beat character you can think of. ;)
 

Chief Mendez

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GenG said:
Are you sure?
Yes, there were no characters from Majora's Mask that were playable in Melee. At least, I think. Not 100% on that one, though. Could be wrong. You never know.

Diddy Kong said:
Wii is the future of Nintendo and so is the Wii Mote, and Wii Sports (or atleast Wii Boxing) is a lot more exhausting than Jungle Beat or every single Konga game. Also, DK Jet has lots of more features than Jungle Beat has, like punching and barrel throwing and using items so it's a little too complex for the Bongo's anyways (atleast I think).
Yeah, I know, but as a big fan of the bongos and all the innovation they brought...well, I guess only one bongo-game was innovative, but that ONE game was enough! But I was really looking forward to pounding the bongos to take those hard corners in Bongo Blast...they could have at least left the option to use them in the final game...

Diddy Kong said:
So what do you want for Brawl? Dread Kong? Please get real... Besides, it's not like Jungle Beat is the morst recent and most populair game in the franchise even good old'e DKC1 did better on the GBA. DOn't forget about the DKC characters in the Konga's, KoS and the upcomming games; DK Jet and KoS DS and then I'm not even counting the 3 DKC KONG characters Diddy Kong Racing DS had and the new courses all resambling DKC alot...
Who I want for Brawl is DK and Diddy, nothing else. I think that's the most realistic thing.

If I had a choice, however, I'd love to see Sumo Kong in Brawl.

And as for DKRacing, the port was horrible. You have to UNLOCK MULTIPLAYER. And the touch-screen additions are very much tacked on for the sake of being able to say "Intuitive touch-screen controls!" Basically, it's a port, not something to put in Smash Bros. FireRed and LeafGreen sold like monkeys (i.e. very well), but that doesn't mean you should go referencing them when arguing for Mewtwo.

Diddy Kong said:
Yeah, but Twilight Princess is a whole diffrent gerne than DKC. Twilight Princess is a 3D action adventure game, so it has A LOT of concurents. DKC however is a game of a dying sort; 2D action platformers. I can't remember any game of that gerne since New Super Mario Bros.

Also keep in mind that people demand more and more from 3D action adventures while DKC even after these 12 years is still a very fun game to play. Go ahead and play OoT yourself again, you'll see TP is actually better since the gerne itself developed more... OoT was good at it's time, excelent even but it simply wouldn't be as good anymore if it where to be released like this these times. DKC would, prooved with GBA ports.
If you ask a real die-hard Zelda fan, and by that I mean one who's been with the series since it's inception, which is better; Ocarina or TP, they'll say Ocarina, no doubt. TP's certainly better looking, has better controls, and is generally more eveolved, but the sheer quality of Ocarina as the premiere 3D Zelda makes it better, similar to how Prime 1 is considered superior to Echoes due to the amazing "first time" thing. God of War and GoW 2 also fit this criteria. The first game is perfect (Ocarina, GoW, Prime), but when the sequel comes out, no matter how longer, deeper, or prettier the game, it doesn't have that same perfection in construction that the original had. There's always something a little bit off that wasn't a problem in the first one.

Diddy Kong said:
Also, Mario never got back in his 'prime' status from Super Mario World cause of Mario Sunshine, Mario Power Tennis or Mario Golf ToadStool Tour either.
But Mario didn't need to. He's THE videogame guy. Everyone knows who he is--EVERYONE. Not everyone knows who Dixie and K. Rool are. Especially newer gamers who started on the 64 or Gamecube.

Diddy Kong said:
And what does Bowser look like? He's even called King KOOPA in Japan, prooves that he's more generic.
And what is a koopa? Hm? Is it maybe...a made up word? Yes, yes it is. Are made up words, by definition, generic? No, no they are not. Is misspelling "cruel" then separating it into a name a pun? Indeed. If he was called "King Kremlin" in Japan, there'd be no beef here, but he's not.

Ohh yeah, DKC has a kick *** female herione without gaint boobs and because of that she must be bashed... >_> Candy was a joke character which represented the typical "hot chick" (to be sure; I don't find her attractive myself or any other videogame character) stereotype in the Nineties much like Funky Kong and the surfer stereotype. Dixie is unique, since the most female characters back then where the typical GENERIC damsell in pink dress character much like Peach and Zelda which where both in Melee...

Diddy Kong said:
Ohh yeah, DKC has a kick *** female herione without gaint boobs and because of that she must be bashed... >_> Candy was a joke character which represented the typical "hot chick" (to be sure; I don't find her attractive myself or any other videogame character) stereotype in the Nineties much like Funky Kong and the surfer stereotype. Dixie is unique, since the most female characters back then where the typical GENERIC damsell in pink dress character much like Peach and Zelda which where both in Melee...

And why's DKC generic? Cause it has animals? C'mon, a Koopa is ATLEAST as generic as a Kremling maybe even more! Kremling where given diffrent colors and could stand on 2 legs unlike crocodiles or aligators, Koopa's like real turtles couldn't. Besides, the game wasn't ment to be as cartoony as Mario anyways so it doesn't even mather. Is let's say, a World War 2 shooter game generic cause you shoot generic German soldiers? Don't think so!
Okay, I guess that works for Dixie. She MIGHT not be as generic as some of the other Rare Kongs, but she's still not as inspired as most Nintendo characters.

And I never said Donkey Kong Country was generic. I said that the Rare-created Kongs are for the most part, complete stereotypes. And they are, as you yourself pointed out.

Phew.
 

GenG

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Young Link was put not just for a cheap clone but he was the main character of Majora's Mask, as well OOT.

So you have a MM stage (no OOT stage), a character (sorta) and plenty trophies. MM wasn't put aside as you said.
 

Diddy Kong

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Yes, there were no characters from Majora's Mask that were playable in Melee. At least, I think. Not 100% on that one, though. Could be wrong. You never know.
Young Link?

Yeah, I know, but as a big fan of the bongos and all the innovation they brought...well, I guess only one bongo-game was innovative, but that ONE game was enough! But I was really looking forward to pounding the bongos to take those hard corners in Bongo Blast...they could have at least left the option to use them in the final game...
Well yeah, it was something to look forward to for Bongo-lovers, but I don't think it's all that bad. The Wii Mote is also very innovative.

Who I want for Brawl is DK and Diddy, nothing else. I think that's the most realistic thing.
I agree with you with that, it deffinatly is the most realistic thing. I also know that K.Rool has very low changes.

If I had a choice, however, I'd love to see Sumo Kong in Brawl.
Could work, he was atleast the most unique of the Kong battles in Jungle Beat. Very unlikely though, and I don't want him but he'd be the most acceptable.

And as for DKRacing, the port was horrible. You have to UNLOCK MULTIPLAYER. And the touch-screen additions are very much tacked on for the sake of being able to say "Intuitive touch-screen controls!" Basically, it's a port, not something to put in Smash Bros. FireRed and LeafGreen sold like monkeys (i.e. very well), but that doesn't mean you should go referencing them when arguing for Mewtwo.
Point is; Diddy Kong Racing had Diddy as a main character, Mewtwo clearly isn't the main character from FireRed or LeafGreen. But if there would be something like LightingYellow which would be the port for yellow then I would go and referencing when arguing about Pikachu... Which will never happen cause he's already confirmed. :p

If you ask a real die-hard Zelda fan, and by that I mean one who's been with the series since it's inception, which is better; Ocarina or TP, they'll say Ocarina, no doubt. TP's certainly better looking, has better controls, and is generally more eveolved, but the sheer quality of Ocarina as the premiere 3D Zelda makes it better, similar to how Prime 1 is considered superior to Echoes due to the amazing "first time" thing. God of War and GoW 2 also fit this criteria. The first game is perfect (Ocarina, GoW, Prime), but when the sequel comes out, no matter how longer, deeper, or prettier the game, it doesn't have that same perfection in construction that the original had. There's always something a little bit off that wasn't a problem in the first one.
True, but I wouldn't call TP the sequel to OoT. The only sequel to OoT was Majora's Mask, TP is something diffrent however the developers really kept OoT in their mind the whole time which kinda ruined it a bit.

But Mario didn't need to. He's THE videogame guy. Everyone knows who he is--EVERYONE. Not everyone knows who Dixie and K. Rool are. Especially newer gamers who started on the 64 or Gamecube.
But Donkey Kong also shouldn't- since he and Mario both made their first apperance in the same game. But yet Nintendo seemed to care more for Mario... Rare atleast tried to make them equel again and that was true for a long time untill Rare was sold to Microsoft... I also don't believe that the DK franchise will be back in their prime status again, but they shouldn't be forgotten.

And what is a koopa? Hm? Is it maybe...a made up word? Yes, yes it is. Are made up words, by definition, generic? No, no they are not. Is misspelling "cruel" then separating it into a name a pun? Indeed. If he was called "King Kremlin" in Japan, there'd be no beef here, but he's not.
No but isn't Kremling or Kritter (the names for the "generic" Kremling on 2 legs you'll see the most often) also a made up word? And since when was it a problem that K.Rool's name is a pun? King DeDeDe's name is also clearly a pun, but yet he gets tons of support by Smash fans.

Okay, I guess that works for Dixie. She MIGHT not be as generic as some of the other Rare Kongs, but she's still not as inspired as most Nintendo characters.
Well the most characters from Nintendo got populair cause of name and fame, just look at Mario. I clearly don't find him all that inspired, but he atleast kept on appearing and got loved by his games. Dixie isn't clearly as populair cause she hasn't really got a fair change to develop since Rare has gone.

And I never said Donkey Kong Country was generic. I said that the Rare-created Kongs are for the most part, complete stereotypes. And they are, as you yourself pointed out.
Yup, but should games always be serious? I don't see anything wrong with MONKEY stereotype characters who aren't even major... Atleast the real cast DK, Diddy and Dixie aren't stereotypes.

Yeah phew, and that for the second time this day. :p
 

Chief Mendez

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GenG said:
So you have a MM stage (no OOT stage), a character (sorta) and plenty trophies. MM wasn't put aside as you said.
Saying Young Link is from MM would've worked, except for the fact that he wields the Deku Shield and Kokiri Sword in Melee. If he was there from Majora, he'd have the Hero's Blade/Shield, not to mention masks. It'd be so amazingly wrong to have Link from Majora's Mask, and then not have him use masks.

And just to avoid any more dissent on the issue, I only was referring to the characters. Which, being the central part of Smash Bros., is clearly the deciding factor to look at when analyzing which game received the most recognition.

Diddy Kong said:
True, but I wouldn't call TP the sequel to OoT. The only sequel to OoT was Majora's Mask, TP is something diffrent however the developers really kept OoT in their mind the whole time which kinda ruined it a bit.
Well, if you wanna' get technical...TP happens after Ocarina. Not as soon after as Majora, but in the same timeline and as a direct result of Ocarina's ending. Anyway, you see my point.

Diddy Kong said:
Yup, but should games always be serious? I don't see anything wrong with MONKEY stereotype characters who aren't even major... Atleast the real cast DK, Diddy and Dixie aren't stereotypes.
Chief Mendez said:
for the most part
I don't think DK and Diddy are that stereotypical, but neither are they completely original. Rather, they're good archetypes. Dixie I'm not so sold on. But K. Rool, Funky, Cranky, Tiny, Lanky and so on are clearly inept attempts to cash-in on the children's genre of the 90s.
 
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I want K.Rool more than Diddy so we have a DK villain. Diddy would be second. I am hoping for Ridley, K.Rool, Samurai Goroh and King Dedede in 'Brawl. Villains ftw.
 

Chief Mendez

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But Goroh isn't a villain, he's a rival. Of course, I could be horribly off; I'm not up to snuff on the TERRIBLY BAD F-ZERO STORYLINE. I don't expect any other F-ZERO guys, simply because the characters aren't really compelling at all, the series isn't that popular, and what characters are there are completely unknown.
 
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Haha... Well, every franchise should be represented with at least two characters. The two should represent opposite forces in the franchise... It's not like I've ever played an F-Zero game.
 

GenG

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Young Link never had fire arrows in OOT. Better yet, he never had arrows in OOT. It's clearly a crossover between his first and most important game (OOT) and his most recent at the time (MM), while being a clone.

He couldn't wear masks because that would've defeated the purpose of being a clone.

While OOT got 3 more characters (Link was just the most recent version of a trend), there wasn't any stage. So MM's representation in Melee was just fine for a rehashed and "minor" title (which was mainstream after all), and didn't have any interesting characters to pick from it. Not overlooked as you point out.

I expect they pick some stages (and even characters) from WW even now at TP's prime. They should aim to represent all the changes in Nintendo's history during the past 6 years: WW is one of them.
 

GenG

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excuse me but wasnt hyrule temple an OoT stage? it wasnt no MM stage
What? Hyrule Temple was an Adventure of Link stage, it was an homage to the temples of that game and it had the music of that game too.
 

nuro

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Well you heard wrong: what you have before you is thousands of Smash nerds fervently translating every word that emerges out of the man's mouth. If he ever said that, we'd all know.

Also, methinks we all know the final game is totally in the dev's capable hands; we're just partaking in some harmless debate here. So just calm down, and relax.
Actually, SamuraiPanda translated the poll that Sakurai had on his Japanese website. On it it said Diddy/Dixie Kong for one of the nominations.

It'd be so amazingly wrong to have Link from Majora's Mask, and then not have him use masks.
The bunny hood item in melee is a mask from Majora's mask. And they did not let Link use his masks because it was too much programing; they could simply clone him from Link.
 

DarkKnight077

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DKR DS was a huge joke of a game, they ruined a classic that was far better than Mario Kart 64. They dumbed it down, ruined the voice actors, got rid of characters. The controls were dead awful the start of the race was also a joke. Simply it was a horrible port of a great racer.

And Termina is actually from MM and Hyrule Temple..is well Adventure of Link, even though it doesn't really look like it all. It looks like it's from Wind Waker...
 

Chief Mendez

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Actually, SamuraiPanda translated the poll that Sakurai had on his Japanese website. On it it said Diddy/Dixie Kong for one of the nominations.
That doesn't mean they're being considered; alone or as a duo. I will say that I didn't know that those two were on Sakurai's poll, but I know Sakurai never "discussed how he liked the idea of making Diddy/Dixie Kong into duel characters."

nuro said:
The bunny hood item in melee is a mask from Majora's mask. And they did not let Link use his masks because it was too much programing; they could simply clone him from Link.
I think we've been over this already. If you really must get technical, yes: Young Link is from Majora's Mask. But since he doesn't use anything uniquely from Majora (in fact, his primary weapons are of Ocarina origin), why would he be considered a MM reperasentative at all?

And another thing, how exactly do you know the reason why Melee's developers didn't program masks into YL's moveset? Guessing does not arguments make.
 

nuro

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That doesn't mean they're being considered; alone or as a duo. I will say that I didn't know that those two were on Sakurai's poll, but I know Sakurai never "discussed how he liked the idea of making Diddy/Dixie Kong into duel characters."

I think we've been over this already. If you really must get technical, yes: Young Link is from Majora's Mask. But since he doesn't use anything uniquely from Majora (in fact, his primary weapons are of Ocarina origin), why would he be considered a MM reperasentative at all?

And another thing, how exactly do you know the reason why Melee's developers didn't program masks into YL's moveset? Guessing does not arguments make.
Well, this is a quote from here.

" However, when Sakurai was presented with the idea for a Diddy/Dixie duo on his poll, he went crazy: he really liked it!"

I don't think that SmashBrawl.com would ever put up something that was a lie or rumor.

And as for MM, well I don't think Nintendo is going to add in anything from that game since it is aging and brawl seems to be about the new games. I just thought I would bring up the point that there is a mask in melee, because you said Y.link doesn't use them. And the reason why they added young link instead of his other mask forms is obviously because they didn't want to spend the time. Cloning Link is a lot faster than making Zora/Goron/Deku Link.
 

Chief Mendez

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Well, this is a quote from here.

" However, when Sakurai was presented with the idea for a Diddy/Dixie duo on his poll, he went crazy: he really liked it!"

I don't think that SmashBrawl.com would ever put up something that was a lie or rumor.

And as for MM, well I don't think Nintendo is going to add in anything from that game since it is aging and brawl seems to be about the new games. I just thought I would bring up the point that there is a mask in melee, because you said Y.link doesn't use them. And the reason why they added young link instead of his other mask forms is obviously because they didn't want to spend the time. Cloning Link is a lot faster than making Zora/Goron/Deku Link.
Yeah okay, you got me. Congratulations.

Although...

SmashBrawl.com said:
Please keep in mind that none of this is definitive, only rumors and things of that nature.
...Nah,I'm just grasping at straws.:chuckle:
 

Johnknight1

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Johnknight1: The 'glaring problems' of Twilight Princess are that the story completely dies after the Arbiter's Grounds and only picks up again four dungeons later, the new tools (Spinner and Ball & Chain, notably) are not used to any worthwhile capacity outside of their respective dungeons and maybe a Poe hunt or two, and finally, Hyrule Field is a disconnected jumble. That last part's more of a pet peeve of mine, but after playing Windwaker and Shadow of the Colossus, the segmented structure of TP's overworld feels backwards. But the story was poo compared to WW. Likewise, WW's gameplay isn't up to TP standards. Ocarina's still the only Zelda to hit that perfect mix of story, pacing, and gameplay.
I disagree, the Spinner was very fun to go around with, and I use the ball & chain a lot, probably I only use bomb arrows, bow and arrow, and that whistle thingy more. The story IMO is really started after Arbiter's Ground, where you learn about Midna and where she got to where she is, how, and why, Zant's Story, as well as the ending and Ganondorf's death. I actually like Hyrule Field a lot, reminds me of Ikana Canyon, lol. :laugh: ALTTP or Zelda II are still the hardest LOZ games, and most underrated.

As for the YLink stuff here is what it comes down to:

1. He is basically the OOT Link, with some MM moves and stuff
2. YLink never had a hookshot in OOT, but did in MM.
3. YLink never had fire arrows, or even worse never had bow and arrows!

From what I can tell, he must have been made as one, if not the last character, as a basic port over clone, with a shorter range bow&arrow, boomerang, and hookshot, diffrent Bup, and walljumping+better jumping and minor tweaks added, plus he's shorter. This leads me to believe he is one of the last made characters, as well as clones=My opinion. I could be wrong, but watever. Simply put, YLink is from OOT/MM and is not directly from one game alone IMO.

DKR DS was a huge joke of a game, they ruined a classic that was far better than Mario Kart 64. They dumbed it down, ruined the voice actors, got rid of characters. The controls were dead awful the start of the race was also a joke. Simply it was a horrible port of a great racer.

And Termina is actually from MM and Hyrule Temple..is well Adventure of Link, even though it doesn't really look like it all. It looks like it's from Wind Waker...
Sums up my thoughts of my fav racing game that was disgraced. At least with Mario Kart Nintendo tried something new everytime, but DKR DS was just a bad port with horrid voices, somewat worse controls, and little new features. Sure Tiny and Dixie were nice additions, but at the cost of Banjo and Conker=? Sure, that last one was just a pet peeve, even if I mainly stuck with Drumstick, Diddy, Tipsy, and Bumper, lol! :laugh: Still....that wasn't the way to go with my fav racing game of all time=disappointment, still I wouldn't say a joke....I'd say it certainly lacked originality=too true!

It wasn't a big disappointment, but I guess all Nintendo/Rare wanted to do with the game is put it on a portable, switch 2 characters in, 2 characters out, and add random features and a near unworkable create a map. Overall all DKR DS does is take the classic, add a few things/change 2 racers in and out, and add online into the mix. Otherwise it is the same old thing, but with diffrent and worse controls=:mad:

As long as characters like chunky, lanky and tiny don't get in im happy DK64 sucked big time what a joke that was.
Chunky is a bigger Kiddy, with a bit more power, age, and other stuff, so he's just a clone in the DK series, lol! :laugh: Lanky I sorta like=at least he was original to some extent. Tiny was just a way to replace Dixie and add in a new random Kong, lol! :laugh: I actually liked DK 64 almost as much as DKC or DKC2=My favs in the series. :) :) :)
 

Chief Mendez

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Sure, some major plot details were revealed after the Arbiter's Grounds, but at the same time, they cut out all the extra stuff. The first half of the game was filled with other characters and situations, like regaining Ilia's memory, curing Ralis, being molested by Telma, Goron wrestling, protecting caravans, beating down King Bulbin, river rafting, dragon riding, sabotaging Barnes' warehouse, and so on. All that extra stuff that was included to flesh out the world of Hyrule and make it more than dungeon-hub-dungeon-hub-dungeon-hub-dungeon was basically removed from the latter half of the game.

Then to top it off, they had to "revisit" it when you're trying to access the City in the Sky, rounding it out by sort of maybe having Ilia hook up with Link in a "touching scene". She's never heard from again. What the ****.

The story wasn't consistent throughout the whole game, as it was in Majora and Windwaker. That's the 'glaring problem'.

EDIT- You do know that you're slower on the Spinner than on foot, right? It may have been fun to ride on for the first five seconds, but it wasn't a very tactile tool outside of the five or six areas that had grip strips on them. Although I agree about the Ball & Chain vs. bombs: why include both if they both accomplish the same thing?
 

The Director

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A lot of the Zelda stages in Brawl are going to be from TP. There's no doubt about that. All the Zelda characters are going to be in TP form as well. (except characters that weren't in TP, OBVI)

I would think they'd have Zelda stages that come from other Zelda games too, but I would say that the majority of them will be from the Wii's biggest title thus far.

What about a stage for Diddy? Pirate ship gets my vote. Aztec grounds from DK64? Nah, garbage. The beehive or the bramble levels from DKC2 would make great Diddy stages in Brawl.
 

Chief Mendez

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A lot of the Zelda stages in Brawl are going to be from TP. There's no doubt about that. All the Zelda characters are going to be in TP form as well. (except characters that weren't in TP, OBVI)

I would think they'd have Zelda stages that come from other Zelda games too, but I would say that the majority of them will be from the Wii's biggest title thus far.

What about a stage for Diddy? Pirate ship gets my vote. Aztec grounds from DK64? Nah, garbage. The beehive or the bramble levels from DKC2 would make great Diddy stages in Brawl.
Or they'll just do what they always do and make some generic "jungle" level, then have it represent both Kongs. But I'm no expert on the DKC games, so I ask the faithful:

Are there any particularly memorable--and I mean Rainbow Ride memorable--DKC games?
 

Diddy Kong

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I think a Barrel Blast-stage would be really awesome! The stage would be filled with Barrel Cannons and the main idea is to launch yourself at the other character and preform an aerial attack. There could also be a small platform, and the stage could be moving like Rainbow Ride to make you rely on the Barrel Cannons to survive. Further more the stage would be filled with brambles which would hurt your character if they get hit by it. Maybe they could also allow you to destroy these brambles so that you can get KOs easier.

But then characters as Jigglypuff (or Pit or MetaKnight perhaps) would be broken on this stage. :p I still say it got some potential to work though.
 

Chief Mendez

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I think a Barrel Blast-stage would be really awesome! The stage would be filled with Barrel Cannons and the main idea is to launch yourself at the other character and preform an aerial attack. There could also be a small platform, and the stage could be moving like Rainbow Ride to make you rely on the Barrel Cannons to survive. Further more the stage would be filled with brambles which would hurt your character if they get hit by it. Maybe they could also allow you to destroy these brambles so that you can get KOs easier.

But then characters as Jigglypuff (or Pit or MetaKnight perhaps) would be broken on this stage. :p I still say it got some potential to work though.
Now that's something I can get behind. I played through a bit of DKC on a friend's Wii recently, and the parts I liked most was the barrel cannon sequences. To make multi-jumpers equal, just prohibit jumping while being shot out of cannons.
 

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Well that's what I actually ment. ;) The whole idea was that when your shot out of the Barrel Cannon you get a sort of "auto jump" but you can't pick your direction when in the air, you can only do that when your inside the Barrel Cannon with the controll stick.

But flying characters would still be some kind of broken, since they wouldn't need the Barrel Cannons to survive in the stage.
 

Itchi

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I've got tons of ideas for Diddy Kong's controls and attacks.

(A) Attacks:

A: Fist Punch

Side + A: Charge Punch

Down + A: Tail Spin

Up + A: Head Buck


(B) Attacks:

B: Pistils

Side + B: Summer-Sault

Down + B: Jump - Split Kick

Up + B: Jet Pack Boost

Speacial Smash attack: Guitar rock wave
 

Diddy Kong

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Anyone with a little bit of a creative brain can make a working moveset for Diddy... Shame that there are still arrogant ****ers around who say hes gonna be a clone of DK. =/

Anyways, Diddy's also confirmed being a playable character in Mario Strikers Charged for the Wii. He, Bowser Bowser Jr. and Petey Piranha (EWWW!) are the only new Captain characters so it's a pretty big role.



Looks pretty sweet in my opinion!

If Diddy's even given such a big role in a Mario game, then his changes for being in Brawl are even more huge. Even though Nintendo appearently loathes DKC, they still pick Diddy above all other ugly Jungle Beat creatures. Expect the same in Brawl.
 
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