Social Diamond City Coffee - Wario Social Thread

[Ssbm_Jag]

Sari lol I never thought about it like that but that's pretty funny.

Yeah, I specifically reserve in-tournament taunts (usually Up taunt) for "unfortunate" SDs, and really dumb/disrespectful deaths.

 

[KuchiiMaw]

Everyone I play to get advice tells me that Wario is not that good and that I should drop him for something better. It's kinda... Sad, knowing that I'm the one who stinks (Got it? No? Ok...), not Wario xD

PD: I just like the Down Taunt because of the W sign he does with his hands, and because that sign is what he does in some boxarts and artworks, like Wario Land 3 and Shake It!'s. Well, that and the bike taunt for the same reasons. But I'll admit that if someone SD's in an hilarous way, nothing's better than a good laugh!

PD2: A lot of edits in here because my english also stinks, sorry xP

 

[Tayman]

Everyone I play to get advice tells me Wario is not that good and that I should drop it for something better. It's kinda... Sad, knowing that I'm the one who stinks (Got it? No? Ok...), not Wario xD

PD: I just like the Down Taunt because of the W sign he does with his hands, and because that sign is what he does in some boxarts and artworks, like Wario Land 3 and Shake It!'s. Well, that and the bike taunt for the same reasons. But I'll admit that if someone SD's in an hilarous way, nothing's better than a good laugh!

Don't listen to them, with waft wario has the pontenial beat anyone I have beaten plentay of char higher then wario in the tier and the fact that their are warios winning tourments proves he is viable

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Don't listen to them, with waft wario has the pontenial beat anyone

Spoiler: Incoming Big Body Rant

This triggered some King Dedede ptsd I had from a long time ago due to fighting a dedede and wafting him at 50-something percent and he didn't get KO'd and then completely getting trashed in neutral not knowing how to deal with gordo spam and finally losing to Super Dedede Jump. Like, I know I was a fraud for losing to that, but there is something that's been on my mind. That is, that I've always thought that heavyweights are some of Wario's hardest match-ups in smash 4. Not bad match-ups necessarily, but hard (I've rated on my personal MU list as Bowser being a bad MU and DK being slightly in his favor, even though Wario is better than both and my record is positive against Bowser in tournament). Even Charizard and Ganon have always given me trouble and I am negative to those character in tournament despite being positive against normal top tier characters in my region (and I've labbed Ganon hard, edge guard him extremely well, I just approach and get U-smashed a lot :}). I tech-chase half wafted a ganon once on the top platform on battlefield at like 70-something once and he lived. I'm not really going to say this on the competitive discussion because I've seen ppl joke about how Wario should destroy Ganon+other fatties, but I *personally* don't think that's the case.

My reasoning for DK and Bowser being very hard for Wario to fight is that Wario is extremely susceptible to pivot grabs given the nature of most of his moves. The MUs might not even be bad, but again I say it's really hard. For any big body, you have to gimp them/get a really nice edge-guard or pray you land two wafts or an alternative hard punish to win. It's harder than you might think, given Wario's approach game has clear flaws unlike many top tiers who can abuse their frame data against big bodies, and most big bodies play so anti-approach. The reason Wario is a really good character as Tayman stated is his potential to beat anyone with Waft. The thing is, most top tiers are light/mid-weights who are at times predictable in how they are trying to kill you, and they can get KO'd by silly things like Wario's d-air mid-stage. For big-bodies, Wario has a very hard time trying to close out stocks against them unless he wafts or gimps. If you asked me what should Wario do to beat them? I'd say either play ZSS/MK if you really want to win or play your best and don't be surprised if you lose to jank ....or win by it and taunt .

 

[KuchiiMaw]

Neh, I'm not playing ZSS nor dropping the fartmaster, I'll just get better with him and then waft to victory

Also, I'm really hyped for Pokkén Tournament. I feel like using Braixen, they kinda remind me of Ashley :D Suicune is really cool too, I like its playstyle from what I saw from it

 

[ZeGlasses!]

Just came back from tourrnament. Got 5th and felt I played really well. Gonna be the last Sm4sh event I'm gonna attend for a while since I'm kinda burnt out on the game.

I was gonna play Mewtwo for ****s and giggles since I thought I wasn't going to take this tournament very seriously. Ended up doing way better and the one time I did use Mewtwo I lost with him. Still kicking myself over it and I hate mewtwo with a burning passion now lol.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Just came back from a small Gainesville tournament. Got 2nd, played 2 sets against Sol (Little mac). He double eliminated me and our game count was 2-6, but it should have been 3-5; however, I SD'd at 0 on one game. Considering he used to body me and now I can consistently take games off him, I feel a huge improvement. Also, I took a game on my Omega galaxy CP which I felt really did help since Little Mac could not wall jump and the grass slowed his general anti-air strategy of PP-u-tilt and up-angled f-smash.

On one match at Lylat Cruise, I F-aired him onto a platform while trying to land and max wafted him in a way that covered every option. I saved the video and might clip that part out. It's probably not something that will ever be practical to set-up, but it looks cool. I also beat my bracket demon Rogue_Penguin (Mario) in a close 3-2. I came into the tournament with a new mindset and told myself that I wouldn't camp no matter what, and only jokingly once ran up on the tree on duck hunt against Sol (But it didn't matter because I had waft and higher %). I can say with certainty that Wario doesn't need to camp, and shouldn't. I think the only reason you ever should need to camp is if you're on your last stock, at high percent with the opponent at low percent or 2-stocks, and didn't have waft. Committing 100% to running away or anything is stupid and predictable (and even if it wasn't, why even play fighting games?). Sol told me he's fought a lot of campy Wario's (including myself at one point), but that the strategy I used to today seemed like the best.

Also, if anyone struggles with Mario, flowchart the match-up, it really helps.

 

[Axel311]

Everyone I play to get advice tells me that Wario is not that good and that I should drop him for something better. It's kinda... Sad, knowing that I'm the one who stinks (Got it? No? Ok...), not Wario xD

Feeling this lately as well. I feel like Cloud's popularity is really hurting Wario's viability. I won't ever drop Wario because he's so much fun but I may have to pick up a top tier and move him to secondary status sadly. So many people play Cloud now and that matchup is horrible for Wario.

Spoiler: Incoming Big Body Rant

This triggered some King Dedede ptsd I had from a long time ago due to fighting a dedede and wafting him at 50-something percent and he didn't get KO'd and then completely getting trashed in neutral not knowing how to deal with gordo spam and finally losing to Super Dedede Jump. Like, I know I was a fraud for losing to that, but there is something that's been on my mind. That is, that I've always thought that heavyweights are some of Wario's hardest match-ups in smash 4. Not bad match-ups necessarily, but hard (I've rated on my personal MU list as Bowser being a bad MU and DK being slightly in his favor, even though Wario is better than both and my record is positive against Bowser in tournament). Even Charizard and Ganon have always given me trouble and I am negative to those character in tournament despite being positive against normal top tier characters in my region (and I've labbed Ganon hard, edge guard him extremely well, I just approach and get U-smashed a lot :}). I tech-chase half wafted a ganon once on the top platform on battlefield at like 70-something once and he lived. I'm not really going to say this on the competitive discussion because I've seen ppl joke about how Wario should destroy Ganon+other fatties, but I *personally* don't think that's the case.

My reasoning for DK and Bowser being very hard for Wario to fight is that Wario is extremely susceptible to pivot grabs given the nature of most of his moves. The MUs might not even be bad, but again I say it's really hard. For any big body, you have to gimp them/get a really nice edge-guard or pray you land two wafts or an alternative hard punish to win. It's harder than you might think, given Wario's approach game has clear flaws unlike many top tiers who can abuse their frame data against big bodies, and most big bodies play so anti-approach. The reason Wario is a really good character as Tayman stated is his potential to beat anyone with Waft. The thing is, most top tiers are light/mid-weights who are at times predictable in how they are trying to kill you, and they can get KO'd by silly things like Wario's d-air mid-stage. For big-bodies, Wario has a very hard time trying to close out stocks against them unless he wafts or gimps. If you asked me what should Wario do to beat them? I'd say either play ZSS/MK if you really want to win or play your best and don't be surprised if you lose to jank ....or win by it and taunt .

Yeah I do think Wario wins against super heavies but not by a lot. I'm guessing are like 55-45 or 60-40 in Wario's favor. Thing I've found is it's just the range thing with Wario that makes them a pain. They all hit really hard and with Wario's short range I'm constantly in their face and at risk of being punished. On paper Wario has the mobility/frame data advantage and should win big but I feel like you have to keep up the consistent play all match and not make a mistake. Especially against Gannon. I can put together a nice combo string but then get hit by one upsmash and it's all a wash...or you can just die at 75% randomly.

One thing I've noticed is they're all super susceptible to bite and typically have end lag on most of their moveset that is punishable in neutral by Wario's side B on reaction. I think you can also use bike in neutral more just because they're hurtboxes are so big and they typically don't have a lot of moves that come out quickly to punish it. I try to throw out safe bairs and fairs in neutral and bait and punish...edgeguard if opportunity arises. Sometimes it can be easy to forget they don't die to waft until like 55% middle of stage.

I agree that Wario mains could just use a secondary. Heavies have a lot of really really bad matchups.

 

[Sari]

Patch 1.1.5 has just been released and people have already found changes (such as MK's up-air getting nerfed). Have any changes been found for Wario yet?

Yeah I do think Wario wins against super heavies but not by a lot. I'm guessing are like 55-45 or 60-40 in Wario's favor. Thing I've found is it's just the range thing with Wario that makes them a pain. They all hit really hard and with Wario's short range I'm constantly in their face and at risk of being punished. On paper Wario has the mobility/frame data advantage and should win big but I feel like you have to keep up the consistent play all match and not make a mistake. Especially against Gannon. I can put together a nice combo string but then get hit by one upsmash and it's all a wash...or you can just die at 75% randomly.

One thing I've noticed is they're all super susceptible to bite and typically have end lag on most of their moveset that is punishable in neutral by Wario's side B on reaction. I think you can also use bike in neutral more just because they're hurtboxes are so big and they typically don't have a lot of moves that come out quickly to punish it. I try to throw out safe bairs and fairs in neutral and bait and punish...edgeguard if opportunity arises. Sometimes it can be easy to forget they don't die to waft until like 55% middle of stage.

I agree that Wario mains could just use a secondary. Heavies have a lot of really really bad matchups.

Wario is really good against big characters, though I seem to have trouble with Bowser. Like you said his range is better than Wario's, and he can be tough to edgeguard thanks to his up-B. On top of this he's surprisingly quick and can kill pretty quickly. Any tips on dealing specifically with ?

I was gonna play Mewtwo for ****s and giggles since I thought I wasn't going to take this tournament very seriously. Ended up doing way better and the one time I did use Mewtwo I lost with him. Still kicking myself over it and I hate mewtwo with a burning passion now lol.

This same thing happened to me a few weeks ago.

I lost a round as Wario so I decided to fight my opponent's with . I stupidly chose battlefield and struggled to get close to him. As I was about to take his last stock, I accidentally fast-fall f-aired offstage and lost. I don't think I'll ever use Doc in a tourney again.

While in the loser's bracket I lost against a because I, for some strange reason, decided to go for an offstage waft and instead got ganoncided instead (I forgot he could still side-B me during the start of the animation). I was so salty that day.

 

[Axel311]

Looks like Wario from untouched just at first glace. Not noticing anything.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Any tips on dealing specifically with ?

He's easy to edge-guard since you can d-air, dash attack, or neutral b, preferably the first. If the bowser is any good he'll likely be pivot grabbing so you have to respect the grab at all times. If you don't, you will take 35+ damage off the grab with pummel+u-throw+nair. Try to cross up your attacks because the bowser is likely going to run away when you try to land and pivot grab you so if you overshoot your approach you should still be fine. Bowser's bair will likely beat all of your approaches and you have to respect that he can bair and go unpunished unless you run up and powershield it, since it autocancels on short hop. His jab is stupid as well and has very good range iirc. B-air, pivot grab, and jab are the three biggest things to look at for. It's bowsers entire neutral and it's why he's a poorly designed character.

I think you can also use bike in neutral more just because they're hurtboxes are so big and they typically don't have a lot of moves that come out quickly to punish it.

You really shouldn't ever Bike in neutral. Bike was not designed to be randomly used in neutral, and personally I think it's a good way to get yourself punished hard. Maybe like once or twice per game if you can read a roll or something, but if you're not at some positional advantage (have stage control/they're in shield/etc.) I think it's best avoided. It's not even close to as good sonic's spindash, yet I see Wario's attempt to use it like it. I only use it for recovery, landings, edge-guarding, tech chasing, waft set-up from platforms, but not as a grounded approach since it's a huge commitment. If I ever use it, it's likely a misinput or I'm tilting. Speeding bike is a different story and Abandango showed how dumb that move is.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

It's great to hear that most of the top tiers are nerfed right now. This makes Wario more legit for solo tournament play!

 

[KuchiiMaw]

They are nerfed, yes, but not in a way that makes Wario more viable. Cloud, who's our worst enemy, still has his solid frame data and disjoints (at least he won't kill us as early as before with the almost unpunishable Limit Cross-Slash nor with Finishing Touch).

Poor MK, having his U-Air's angle changed. Now it's a lot harder to pull off his U-Air strings; meanwhile, ZSS only got damage input decreases, as if they where changing something.

About Bayonetta, am I the only one who thinks these nerfs are almost negigible and won't change a thing? I don't know, these lag increases doesn't seem to fix her stupid 0-to-deaths IMO.

 

[Axel311]

Wario definitely got a buff by proxy with his patch. As did basically every non top tier. Cloud nerfs were pretty minor though other than FT's use in doubles so I'm not all that excited. His hitboxes and frame data appear to stay the same and that's really what makes him good, he still has the same dumb huge hitboxes and lack of lag on upair and nair. Slight damage/Knockback reductions on his kill moves but nothing that drastic. More charge time but not that big of a deal...Cloud mains will just camp more. He may actually go up in the tier list because of nerfs. The Cloud matchup didn't really improve all that much. What he really needs is lag added to his aerials and it appears he didn't get that.

matchups I'd say are easily the biggest improvement for Wario. Jury is still out on the MK nerfs though, I feel like people are overreacting and MK mains will figure out how to string upairs together with the new knockback angle.

A few matchups like got more difficult though.
Yeah really hoping they give Wario a buff in a future patch. And I'm assuming they'll do another one as wasn't changed all that much and some really low tiers like who are screaming for buffs still haven't been touched.

You really shouldn't ever Bike in neutral. Bike was not designed to be randomly used in neutral, and personally I think it's a good way to get yourself punished hard. Maybe like once or twice per game if you can read a roll or something, but if you're not at some positional advantage (have stage control/they're in shield/etc.) I think it's best avoided. It's not even close to as good sonic's spindash, yet I see Wario's attempt to use it like it. I only use it for recovery, landings, edge-guarding, tech chasing, waft set-up from platforms, but not as a grounded approach since it's a huge commitment. If I ever use it, it's likely a misinput or I'm tilting. Speeding bike is a different story and Abandango showed how dumb that move is.

I mean I wouldn't ever say "never". It is very opponent and situation dependent but there's definitely times where you can use it without getting punished if you can recognize and punish endlag, or a projectile that doesn't knock you off bike that an opponent throws out too close to Wario, like Cloud's blade beam for instance.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

MK is no longer a borderline unwinnable matchup, though he can likely still time us out. Sheik not having F-Throw -> Down-B as long is a notable improvement.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

I actually never seen a Meta Knight player time another player nor a Wario player out.

BTW People. How do you guys use the falling Nair? (Yes, the sweetspot one)
I'm playing with tilts on the C-Stick so I'm enable to perform a Nair if I smash the C-stick side ways, which feels better for me.
The move is also great for early %, which can give us a follow up like grab, dash attack, D-tilt or Jab(sometimes).

 

[Tayman]

wait can you waft instead of air dodging sheik now, if she tries to do forward throw down b at a percent it does not work at ?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Jury is still out on the MK nerfs though, I feel like people are overreacting and MK mains will figure out how to string upairs together with the new knockback angle.

He won't be killing anyone, but he'll still have pretty stupid damage output.

 

[PK Gaming]

Re: Sheik matchup

Are the recent changes to Sheik's down throw comparable in helpfulness to when Wario had that grounded state bike glitch? I remember it being a big deal for Wario when he had it, and i'm wondering if the new patch has made this matchup more bearable.

 

[Tayman]

The wario ground glitch has been removed

 

[Spinosaurus]

Re: Sheik matchup

Are the recent changes to Sheik's down throw comparable in helpfulness to when Wario had that grounded state bike glitch? I remember it being a big deal for Wario when he had it, and i'm wondering if the new patch has made this matchup more bearable.

He still loses, but it's probably manageable. The grounded glitch was a big deal because Sheik had to work for the kill against Wario.

The wario ground glitch has been removed

Been gone since last patch.

 

[Tayman]

ik

He still loses, but it's probably manageable. The grounded glitch was a big deal because Sheik had to work for the kill against Wario.

Been gone since last patch.

ik i was just telling him it was gone

 

[Twewy]

So apparently Zero thinks Wario is bottom-mid of the tier list. Thoughts on this? I personally disagree, since he put characters like Little Mac above him. (Didn't know if this would be okay as a separate thread so I posted it here.)

 

[lbrasz44]

He didn't though. He put him at 29th, at the bottom of high tier in his vid. Regardless, it's a fair placement as Wario is fairly viable, but doesn't really have too much of a presence in the meta so putting him as a gatekeeper into high level of play is reasonable enough

 

[Twewy]

He didn't though. He put him at 29th, at the bottom of high tier in his vid. Regardless, it's a fair placement as Wario is fairly viable, but doesn't really have too much of a presence in the meta so putting him as a gatekeeper into high level of play is reasonable enough

He did? My bad, for some reason I was thinking of mid tier. I shouldn't post when half asleep, lol.

 

[Sari]

Do you guys think using Wario's taunts in a tourney would make my opponent laugh, or get incredible salty? His taunts are really funny compared to all of the other taunts. I'm thinking of doing the buttshake taunt when a Mac whiffs their KO punch just to see what their reaction is like.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

Do you guys think using Wario's taunts in a tourney would make my opponent laugh, or get incredible salty? His taunts are really funny compared to all of the other taunts. I'm thinking of doing the buttshake taunt when a Mac whiffs their KO punch just to see what their reaction is like.

Can confirm that it will defiantly make your opponents laugh. I'm also very VERY known for taunting randomly or doing something stupid for no absolutely reason. Your opponents and/or the commentary will certainly laugh at this and sometimes it will even make a salty person happy again (Probably because I get punished by them afterwards).

Taunting AFTER a kill however Is a a little risky one, that depends on your opponent. You can avoid this by explaining them that'll decrease the waft timer or something (AKA Johns) if you don't want to make them mad.... However! If the opponent knows about your taunting skills, it's very likely that they don't mind if you're taunting in front of them after a kill or not.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Am I the only one who finds it silly that Wario's d-tilt can outright miss characters during their missed tech animations? You know, when they do the little flail on the ground? Some bounce just high enough for d-tilt to miss. This, and n-air OOS being too high to hit some characters during their attack landing lag animations is really frustrating to me.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

You know what frustrating me the most? Not only that I use d-tilt once and get punished instantly, but I really hate that stupid hurtbox of his Bair. It's like there's nothing behind his head, but they still managed to hit me, because they randomly used the "air" to counter it.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

Are any of you guys playing Pokken? I wanted to take a bit of a break from Sm4sh and this game has been consuming my life.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

Is it me or.... Am I the only who thinks pokken hasn't that feel of a competitive game, but more like a better "I want to have fun on wifi" game.

 

[Sari]

I don't have Pokken, but I just got my hands on Street Fighter V and it's been keeping me very occupied. I love using Birdie because he reminds me of Wario (both in playstyle and character).

Pokken looks interesting, though I wish they used stages from the actual Pokemon games instead of made-up locations. Imagine having an intense battle at Spear Pillar, N's Castle, or Lumiose City. Still, I like the character roster and hopefully more come out soon.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I'm playing Machamp. I've always been a fan of grappler characters in traditional fighters and Machamp fills that niche very well. Getting close is hard, but once you do your opponent can say goodbye to half their health bar.

 

[Perikong M.TurtleBits]

I still think Wario is the Smash character with the biggest need of a moveset change. Yeah, when you play with him it feels like Wario, but it would be better if he had moves from his best games, Wario Land. For example, the dash attack he has in Smash does not make any sense, it could be the dash attack from Wario Land 4, he could also use his powered ground pound as a Dsmash instead of the horrible one he has in Smash. Also I don't know why they removed the shoulder bash in the first place, the new Fsmash is actually worse for Wario as it leaves him more exposed. If they wanted to buff Wario they should have just made shoulder bash stronger.
I still don't understand why they changed Pit's moveset a lot when he was perfectly fine, yet Wario didn't get anything except the shoulder bash removal which is worse for him.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

Wario feels pretty much like a.... unique... Sakurai... Character.... thing.

Although I don't really think Sakurai will change any of our movesets like most of the cast who appeared from Brawl, But all we really want now is the return of the legandary Shoulder Bash. I don't care if it is his new dash attack or his old F-Smash. I just want his signature move of all of his games he appeared back in business.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Complaining about Wario's moveset because it doesn't embody his Land persona is getting very tiresome, childish and pointless.

It's just needless bickering. I'm glad this section is mostly devoid of it, but I'd still prefer if there was as little of it as possible. Expressing dislike towards Wario's Ware focused moveset is fine, I just don't want a rant.

 

[Sari]

The joys of being a Wario main

Has anyone else ever been ridiculed for using Wario (whether it be online or at an actual tourney)?

 

[Dar4]

The joys of being a Wario main

Has anyone else ever been ridiculed for using Wario (whether it be online or at an actual tourney)?

Absolutely. People think fart is jank and stupid and get so mad when they die at like 40. Been ridiculed about that on more than one occasion in bracket. Mainly it's winning games with fart that people tend to ridicule me about. It's not that common, but it happens every so often.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

Absolutely. People think fart is jank and stupid and get so mad when they die at like 40. Been ridiculed about that on more than one occasion in bracket. Mainly it's winning games with fart that people tend to ridicule me about. It's not that common, but it happens every so often.

And they think we're not allowed to call them roll spammers or spammers in general? WAH!

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

I saw this theory online that Lord Crump from Paper Mario:The Thousand Year Door is actually Wario. His build, goggles, shoes make the case arguable. I feel there has got to be something in game to bust this theory. Also, I found this tune online with only 5k views and thought it was pretty good.