Social Diamond City Coffee - Wario Social Thread

[LordFreezyPops42]

I'm not fond of that MU either but it's not that bad. If I play a Mario, I'm going to play as lame as possible and potentially go for a timeout.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Idk, I think it's that bad. I think if the person you're playing against is at your level, you should never win, even if they're worse you can still lose against Mario. Abadango almost lost to Retrogaijin's Mario (although the match was over wifi, but he arguably did the absolute worst as Wario). Mario's aerial mobility challenges Wario's, Mario punishes lands hard and you have to land a lot as Wario, he edge-guards amazingly, is very hard to be punished by Wario since Wario's OOS options aren't that good, has better aerials as far as neutral is concerned, and has the classic Mario combo. M2k told me apparently Abadango played 14 games in Japan as Wario against Ally's Mario and only won 1. If you're beating a Mario, I'd really question the skill of the Mario, not necessarily yours.

 

[Sari]

I just went to my first real tournament today using only Wario (it was at the University of Delaware). Here's how I did in the order of what happened:

Beat a /.
Lost to Officer Jenny's .


Once in the loser's bracket...

Beat a . Is Rosalina really hard to fight on Battlefield or is it just me?
Beat a . I think they used someone else in the second match though I forget who it was.
Beat a /. I forget his name but he was a pretty cool guy.
Beat a (named EastNutz). I never knew how hard Peach is to fight until today.
Beat a . I take back everything I said about the MU being heavily in Wario's favor.
Lost to Officer Jenny's again. I was so close to winning the first match though when I wafted she only got hit by the hitbox on Wario (which didn't launch her that much).


Overall, I think I placed 6th though I'm not sure (I don't know how to check).

Also I have no proof of it, but after the main matches were over I managed to beat Shofu's with Wario (thanks to a lucky waft). He was really tough though still fun to fight (of course if it was his Fox it would have been different).

EDIT: I also beat Booty of Justice's a few time. She (along with everyone else) was fun to fight against.

 

[LordFreezyPops42]

Idk, I think it's that bad. I think if the person you're playing against is at your level, you should never win, even if they're worse you can still lose against Mario. Abadango almost lost to Retrogaijin's Mario (although the match was over wifi, but he arguably did the absolute worst as Wario). Mario's aerial mobility challenges Wario's, Mario punishes lands hard and you have to land a lot as Wario, he edge-guards amazingly, is very hard to be punished by Wario since Wario's OOS options aren't that good, has better aerials as far as neutral is concerned, and has the classic Mario combo. M2k told me apparently Abadango played 14 games in Japan as Wario against Ally's Mario and only won 1. If you're beating a Mario, I'd really question the skill of the Mario, not necessarily yours.

Let me rephrase myself then : it's bad, yes, but it certainly isn't impossible. Also, that's not really how some MUs work. Just because a character has an advantage over another doesn't mean they character with the disadvantage should lose every time when each player as at a similar skill level (Take Abadango taking games off Mr.R's Sheik for instance. Sheik vs Wario is a pretty damn hard MU). Plus, Wario always has the clutch factor with the waft. You can get outplayed in neutral both stocks and still win because you land the waft when it matters.

 

[Hyper]

I just went to my first real tournament today using only Wario (it was at the University of Delaware). Here's how I did in the order of what happened:

Good job man, I'm proud of ya. You beat a lot of players for your first tournament.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

You're right, not all MUs work that way, but I believe Wario loses hard lol. If you don't get wafts on Mario, it can be very bad. I know Wario has kill power, but so does Mario, and he's unarguably a lot more safer. I personally don't consider wafts for a lot of match-ups which, to a lot of people, sounds crazy, but only because I personally feel Waft, while being essential to playing Wario, does not always come through for you.

Oh and good job Sari.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Beat a . Is Rosalina really hard to fight on Battlefield or is it just me?

Yeah. Avoid Dreamland and Battlefield against Rosalina. She benefits way more from platforms than Wario does.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

My friend just showed me that Mario can true combo d-air to u-smash. At my weeklies, I like to imitate Mario spamming u-smash and I'll say yeehah! like Mario does. When I saw that Mario says Yahoo! when using d-air, I just thought: Yahoo to Yeehah. The Hoo-Hah is back, I quit.

 

[LordFreezyPops42]

In one of Mario's victory animations, he says "hooooo hah!!!"

Mario confirmed for Diddy Kong

And on an unrelated note, I managed to time the hell out of this dude on Duck Hunt with 8 minutes while only sustaining 14%.

I don't care how bad my opponent was it was absolute glorious.

This is what I live for.

 

[Revax]

I once had a Lucario counter pick me to duck hunt with customs on. ONCE

 

[Andaya]

What do you guys think are some good secondaries that take care of Wario's bad MUs?

 

[Hyper]

I've been looking for a 2ndary since day 1, I've kind of given that up.
Honestly it just depends on what character gives you the most trouble, as most 2ndaries wont cover everything.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

http://wariomissed.com/

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I was undefeated in my bracket pool at MLG Worlds. Got a Bye, beat two Luigis and MJG. Hurray!

 

[Exceladon City]

I've been playing Wario a lot lately.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I was undefeated in my bracket pool at MLG Worlds. Got a Bye, beat two Luigis and MJG. Hurray!

 

[Hyper]

I saw you play on stream Reflex, that was some damn fine work against MJG.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

That up-air to waft was genius TheReflexWonder , but you scared me when you got the reverse Waft hitbox. Also, nice ledge-side up-taunt.

 

[Andaya]

fix'd

 

[Hyper]

Congrats on 5th place Reflex, you're the first Wario main to get this far in a US Major.(Not really counting Aba since he was a 2ndary/doesn't use him anymore)

One question though, do you have your cstick to tilt or are you just a god at tilts?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

C-Stick is set to Attack, yeah. I prefer it for aerials and it makes Run Turnaround Cancel -> D-Tilt way easier.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

C-Stick is set to Attack, yeah. I prefer it for aerials and it makes Run Turnaround Cancel -> D-Tilt way easier.

I also really like using Attack on C-stick. Smash Attacks are not so viable if you compare it with the Brawl ones and Wario's Tilts are all actually great to use. Have you tried to Nair with the C-stick? It can be a pretty decent move if you short-hop, hold the control stick down and Nair.

 

[Routa]

Where can I find some of your matches TheReflexWonder ? Living in Europe has its downsides :S

 

[Boost4u]

You scared me every time you tried to gimp Ryo's Ike's up b. Can you tell me why you fought him like that? When someone is off stage, I just ledge cancel bike and try to work magic with throwing it or extended hitboxes.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Where can I find some of your matches TheReflexWonder ? Living in Europe has its downsides :S

I don't have many. I don't go out to tournaments very often. The ones I know about are usually posted in the Wario Video Thread.

Not sure where replays or VODs can be found for the MLG event, either.

You scared me every time you tried to gimp Ryo's Ike's up b. Can you tell me why you fought him like that? When someone is off stage, I just ledge cancel bike and try to work magic with throwing it or extended hitboxes.

Because the risk is generally noticeably lower than the reward. Ike is quite gimpable during his recovery, even if I have very little experience fighting against Ike.

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Because the risk is generally noticeably lower than the reward. Ike is quite gimpable during his recovery, even if I have very little experience fighting against Ike.

Ya, I think you won your final game against that Ike player (who managed to 3-0 Nakat for those that don't know) because you gimped him at the end.

That was a great tourney run btw. Based on your experience, would you say the shield patch made Wario better or worse? What would you say about his match ups now?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think much changed in the matchups, but the overall climate is likely worse for him. It doesn't seem to make (m)any significant spacing tools much safer for him, but it does make it less likely to punish other people's stuff. Up-B was/is solid for it, but it's less so now.

The most metagame-relevant characters I feel he loses to, like Sheik, ZSS, Diddy, Mario, and Ness, can now space worse than before and get away with it (not that they couldn't get away with murder before). I would tell anyone trying to get super-good to have a secondary just for consistency's sake, because this is pretty bad. I'm trying to pick up Ryu, myself. Wario can probably do it by himself, but you're putting yourself through undue stress until we get a patch that fixes the dumb.

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Darn, that's too bad to hear. Least you gave 'em hell with what you had.

Very curious though, about who you would consider good match ups for Wario. Let's not turn this into a debate where mains from other boards come in to get mad at us, but just a quick summation of who you feel Wario beats (because I NEVER hear about that from anyone). I have my own ideas, but I'm also looking for a complementary main for when I decide to compete at a local level, so knowing Wario's strengths and weaknesses could help out.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I went to a Comicon this Sunday and got 2nd, mostly used Fox in pools and came 1st in my pool. Switched to Wario in bracket, I ran into a Ryu player, a Luigi player, Frupcakes (Little Mac) and then Gains (Luigi) in WF's and LF's (couldn't beat him, he's straight up better than me and I got too impatient for the kill). All of these characters just happened to be MUs I preferred Wario over Fox, the only exception was the DDD they let in to LF's.

I got home just in time to catch the MLG top 8, congrats Reflex on 5th. I saw your game vs the older Montreal Climber, congrats on your performance vs Ally.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Will anyone be at smash the record? I will and would be glad to meet anyone.

 

[LordFreezyPops42]

I'm already here. Look for the guy wearing a Dio Brando shirt.

 

[Gunla]

Wario folks! We're currently discussing the Greninja vs Wario MU in our board. Your input is appreciated:
http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...kachu-10-26-11-2.369356/page-30#post-20362766

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

I've had this same conversation like 10 times with people.
"You know who I want in Smash 4?"
Me: Who?
"Waluigi!"
Me: Uh, no, he's not even significant. Besides, there are too many Mario representatives.
"But you main Wario? Wait, he'd be part of the Wario series wouldn't he? How can you not want Waluigi"
Me: Sigh, no, he's not in Warioware or Warioland. He's a meme of Mario party and Mario sports games. No one cares about the character outside of smash and no one ever will. King K. Rool on the other hand...

 

[Andaya]

I'd love Waluigi in smash, but unless he gets in a main mario/wario game, it's not gonna happen

 

[Tayman]

Man reflex does so much for us i really wish i could return the favor

 

[Routa]

Man reflex does so much for us i really wish i could return the favor

I think we should make him a Garlic Cake.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

I was playing doubles the other day and won a hilarious 2 v. 1 against a ROB at 90%+ and a Ganon at 45% and I was at 110%+.
My philosophy has typically been: If they are standing unshielded and you rush them down, they will shield. If they are shielding and you rush them down they will jump or roll, spot-dodge being the least likely. If someone misses an attack/grab nearby you, they will immediately spot-dodge. Being desperate, I ran up to a shielding ROB and wafted. I don't know what OOS option he chose, but it worked. I then ran across the stage to a non-shielding Ganon and he shielded right as I got within range. F-threw him off stage and d-air spiked him. I was thinking at the end, they didn't honestly think I would try to outplay them, did they?

 

[Hyper]

The ROB probably tried shield grabbing.

 

[Andaya]

Wait, you can dair spike on command or did you get lucky? I thought it was a random thing, if there are ways to set it up it would be awesome.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Andaya To an extent I got lucky. It traded with the darkness uppercut portion iirc. I hadn't practiced d-air spiking ganon in the past. I would have gone for a dash attack on stage to be safe, but Wario's dash attack has so much lag, that if you miss, the Ganon can drop ledge, jump and Ganoncide you. This same Ganon showed me this in practice how risky it is to try to edge-guard Ganon. Also, Chomp does not beat aerial Flame choke, so if you think the opponent is going for that move, don't press b.