DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[ranmaru]

Rockin, I want you to respond to me please.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I can confirm that was a concern at the time.

so Gorf (and kary if they want to chime in), to make sure I understand a lore lynch, can you explain the issue with Lore and what we learn from it if he were to flip scum? From my understanding, the offenses were that he isn't really scumhunting and the word exchange during the wait period of UP's gambit? If there's more to it or I misread something, please let me know!

my second post of the Day is a detailed analysis of my read, and my next post is a summary of my read on lore. much of my posting has been expounding on it. you have a severe misunderstanding of the offenses and i implore you to iso me from the start of the Day to really get a better handle of it

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

after you do that (at least reading the summary of my case but id hope youd read through my iso cuz im sure many questions you might have will be answered there) ill feel free to answer further

 

[Rockin]

my second post of the Day is a detailed analysis of my read, and my next post is a summary of my read on lore. much of my posting has been expounding on it. you have a severe misunderstanding of the offenses and i implore you to iso me from the start of the Day to really get a better handle of it

Gotcha, I'll do that asap.

 

[ranmaru]

I am starting to think you may be right, Gorf. I am hoping back on. If Lore is scum, I don't think Rockin is scum. I am mostly convinced by your point that he is passive about doop until after the Doop wagon speeds up. Also re-reading it seems like he is trying to force a scum read out of Mac and Jex for following marshy quickly on the JTB wagon, and he has Doop as 75% town. (He also never mentioned him being somewhat town in his defense either and chose to stick to the inactivity defense)

Unvote; Vote: Lore

 

[ranmaru]

Lore is at 5 votes right now.

 

[Pythag]

Tom
What does a Rockin lynch tell us?
What would a Lore lynch tell us?

 

[Pythag]

@Ran, if Lore flips town, what do you do? Where do you look?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

FF/JTB post I already responded to

Can I just say that I love you, you handsome *******? You've gotten very good at getting things across in a way that leaves me all the information I need to draw my own conclusion from the same data set that you're using.

 

[ranmaru]

@Ran, if Lore flips town, what do you do? Where do you look?

I look at Rockin because I feel there is one scum between them. Also if Lore flips town I have less reason to believe Kary is scum.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Fair, and tbh your point on scum!jtb being a connection is solid.

I'm just not sure where I stand on JTB, and I should reread. He definitely seems to be coasting hardcore, and his wagon D1 had some weight behind it. I blame my focusing on other players for my lack of strong feelings on this slot, although I feel like I disliked him before? Just can't remember why.

I'll reread later and see what I think, may not be able to dig in tonight though due to an event I'm going to. Tomorrow's work day should be lighter though.

Is coasting in this game indicative of scum alignment? Is JTB better or worse than Rockin for this? Are FF and Pythag coasting? Is Tom coasting?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

i dont think doops self vote was tactical. if scum played off that, i think it would have to have been reactionary. i also doubt doop was nearly caught up enough to consider that hed make lore look bad. he was super lost in the sauce when he replaced out because of his work schedule stuff.

Seconded

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If Lore is scum, this quote makes Kary look bad.

I don't think that's true. Kary, to my knowledge, has played this entire game biting through a distaste of being in the same game as me. Flattering, but I think reading into this comment is a bad idea. Null tell.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I know you are going to hate this Gorf. But in Elements Mafia Ryker pushed his scummate, PJB first and hard. No one questioned them and I think we almost lost (or did). Honestly a Kary-Ryker-Lore pairing is the only way I can imagine Kary being scum. Why? being first on the wagon is the tactic I would expect from a Ryker scumteam. It reaps full reward in end game. Mark my words if Kary nor Ryker dies and they are in mylo still. (This is if Lore is scum)

This is why it's hard being me.

 

[ranmaru]

Kary asks you about Maven but neglects to ask about Rockin and never explains that.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I can confirm that was a concern at the time.

so Gorf (and kary if they want to chime in), to make sure I understand a lore lynch, can you explain the issue with Lore and what we learn from it if he were to flip scum? From my understanding, the offenses were that he isn't really scumhunting and the word exchange during the wait period of UP's gambit? If there's more to it or I misread something, please let me know!

Rockin, friend, that is a gross underestimation of what people have been saying.

Is this slot so carefree and oblivious as scum? This slot is going to have a hard time leaving null for the remainder of the game, but goddamn.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Kary asks you about Maven but neglects to ask about Rockin and never explains that.

Quote? I don't know what you're talking about at the moment.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Tom
What does a Rockin lynch tell us?
What would a Lore lynch tell us?

I like this. Please continue dragging Tom into discussions. Kicking and screaming if necessary.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Going to respond to Ran, but I'm gonna bow out of the thread again for now.

I'm mostly interested in seeing what slots like FF, Tom, Pythag, Spak, and Nabe are going to add. I think retreading ground in here with Ran, Lore, and Gorf doesn't help much. Let me know if you need anything specific. That goes for anyone.

 

[ranmaru]

I will get you the quote in a bit, mobile.

 

[Pythag]

#HBC | Mac Did you ever elaborate on your tom feelings more? Or was it left at "there was some weirdness / I don't know why everyone thought he was town?"

 

[Pythag]

#HBC | Ryker I think this is the quote Ran is talking about Kary's 276

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | Ryker

He posted about Maven so I asked him about Maven. It's pretty simple.

I expect to explain the bolded more when I get to my post on Ryker.

 

[ranmaru]

Hold on. Rockin has yet to post, but Kary only cares to focus on Maven. The post Pythag linked shows Kary stating he is posturing on Maven but why not Rockin? Understand what I am saying? This is a minor detail but I think it is important to look over.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Going to the store and catching up after, but Gorf tagged me.

Re: JTB

That slot is a pain in the ***. The major thing I had in favor of not removing it was the fact that the wagon looked completely whack.

The behavior presented since the slot fell behind is consistently one of "I'm not caught up. I'm not going to be caught up. I'm going to phone in what I can."

That, in and of itself, is null to me. This game is a handful. He's not the only one I think is doing that.

His direction, however, seems mostly concerned with what will keep him alive (see FF's OMGUS comment). Could be a townie who is so far behind he only sees what involves him and has that narrow of a focus. Could be a scumbag just sliding through a game thats too much for him.

The best tools for solving that slot will be the connections it has with other slots, but we may be better off just lynching it and looking in the reverse direction.

The more I look at it, the more I think JTB may need to go before FF so I can see what that flip is before passing judgement.

Either way, my vote is fine on Lore at the moment and I'll catch up on the rest of the thread soon.

yea as i read ff's blurb on the volume of posts thing it made me think about the fact that, aside from things that directly involve him, his recent content has been "sorry not caught up" and some inconsequential questions. despite the fact that he should be caught up from what he said at the end of yesterDay about catching up. aside from that, i feel like marshys and my jtb cases still hold up from yesterDay, but i see your frustration with reading the slot. mostly why i didnt care to pressure him from the get go.

 

[Pythag]

@Ran but isn't that missing the point? Kary was asked about a specific player, and responded about a specific player

during my reread, Kary doesn't strike me as the type of play to just post things about things he's not asked (he even chides UP on this)
In security training, they always tell you not to volunteer more than you have to.

So wait, are you trying to formulate that Lore, Kary, Rockin and Doop are all a mafia scum team? Or just that between those (minus doop) there's 1 mafia? (like you answered when I asked about the lore flip)

 

[ranmaru]

What does him leaning to it to that extent imply in relation to scumhunting in your mind? I'm just curious why you cared to ask him this, when you didn't ask him about Rockin, who had less posts than Maven at the time.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

(sorry i wrote this in notepad, so some of the formatting sucks and im too lazy to fix it. also sorry for the long post, check the first line of each section to get my overall thoughts on the player)

ok so finally finished a long overdue reread today (though ive only skimmed the posts that were posted late yesterday/today)

i wanted to focus on a bunch of slots that I didn't have a strong mental model of


________________________________________________________________________________________________
Rockin:
Still down to hardbody this guy outta here. Besides what Ranmaru was saying about Rockin's iffy / supposed support of a doop lynch, Rockin just feels kinda useless and has no agency or desire to particpate strongly. Still don't like his behavior on the initial Ran wagon at all

one important question for you Rockin , you claim you never scumread Ranmaru, and while yea you never _explicitly_ stated that you scumread him. your #440 does display a large number of arguments against that slot. how do you reconcile you saying you never thought Ran was scum / that he leans town with the fact that you appeared to push him in your first major post of the game?


________________________________________________________________________________________________
Kary:
Feeling great about this slot. Good obversations and him starting the doop momentum at the end of the day is super great look.

His #1190 (the part about rockin), and his 1200 have me really like this... uh player (guy? gal?, trans? not sure which is correct?)

#HBC | Kary , I'm curious about your current read on JTB (sorry if you answer this in the last couple pages)


________________________________________________________________________________________________
Spak (Jexs):
I still like this slot from how Jexs did d1. Honestly, my strongest town read atm, which is interesting given how many people have scumspected throughout the game.

The way they interacted with Ranmaru during his early wagon seemed genuine, like while they were somewhat antogonistic towards Ranmaru, they didnt eagerly jump on the wagon like a lot of other gross slots, peep his 164 (https://smashboards.com/threads/dga...m-cst-monday-6-24.484663/page-5#post-23385137) and 229 (https://smashboards.com/threads/dga...m-cst-monday-6-24.484663/page-6#post-23385360). In addition a large chunk of their posts aligned with my beliefs as i was reading them, esp his #914 (https://smashboards.com/threads/dga...8-00-a-m-cst-monday-6-24.484663/post-23397284) and #1176 (https://smashboards.com/threads/dga...8-00-a-m-cst-monday-6-24.484663/post-23398433)

i have pretty much the opposite take of FF here:

Jexs still seems to be wayyyy over accommodating and afraid to offend or put anyone off. Which is funny because I remember a post Jex made saying they were reading some slot as town because that slot was unafraid of offending people. Kind of ironic.

yea jexs had been pretty slow to develop reads and hadn't been pushing people, but my takeaway from that was that he was genuinely tryna parse out who scum might be. feel like itd be more likely for scum to just hop on popular wagons (like Ran) because its easy and ppl won't blame them for going along with the crowd.

@#HBC | FrozenFlame has anything Jexs has done at the end of Day 1, or spak toDay hardened your scumread of them? and did Jexs' position on JTB's wagon change your view of the slot at all? do you think they're scum together?


________________________________________________________________________________________________
FrozenFlame

Finally got through gorfs / rykers stuff regarding this slot. it's actually a much quicker case to to read through
than i initially thought, basically while FF's position on JTB is that he's obvscum, the progression of how FF got to that point is very unclear. He never really talks through, why he thinks JTB is obvscum. valid points here

Also, not really a fan of FF just adopting the TvS framework regarding Ran v Tom.

Him being super MIA and posting rarely is pretty much in line with his meta. And usually i expect super thoughtful posts when he does have the chance to post, and it seemed like we were getting a good amount of that early on. A ton of solid obversations, esp his one town reading Kev (but def not the Ran stuff). but since the end of yesterDay (or maybe start of toDay) it feels like I haven't gotten those solid obvservations from that slot

but sounds like he has real life johns, also it's dope that he's with me on JTB so i can't hate too much.

Slot is pretty solidly null for me and not the play, but someone imma be paying a lot of attn to as the day goes on.

another question for @#HBC | FrozenFlame (though i think its hard to get good answers since you've just been skimming?):
Can you give me your reads on Ryker and Tom?


________________________________________________________________________________________________
Ryker

dude only gets a section cuz i wanna say that i think it's funny how much of what Ryker said yesterDay i wholeheartedly disagree(d) with. honestly it keeps giving me the urge to revisit my obvtown-read on this slot, but i always think about the massive amount of "town cred" he's built up and im like... nah

quick question though R Ryker : why did you vote jtb in your #1381 https://smashboards.com/threads/dga...8-00-a-m-cst-monday-6-24.484663/post-23403080


________________________________________________________________________________________________
Gorf

initially disliked this slot because he was probably one of the worst offenders re: Ran on d1 (still looks grimy upon reread). but besides that i literally can't find anything to hate about this slot. my guess is that he's low key one of the players that've posted the most. great analysis' and pushes all around from this guy, his stuff on Lore and FF are super good

and most importantly his consistent position on Doop d1 is a real good look.

________________________________________________________________________________________________
Lore

probably got the bulk of my attn upon reread. Noticed a ton of defending dooplisity throughout the Day from this slot. both his first post and last post of the Day defend dooplisity. but actually the weirdest observation I realized was that he seemed to dislike all the popular wagons when he entered the game, (Doops, JTBs, and even pythags) but then rapid fire started suspecting people heavily. Initially really disliked Jexs, then moved onto me cuz he had issues with some **** i said, and then very quickly moved on to pushing UP.

initially I read his behavior as townie for a couple reasons, the fact that he scumspected me after I said he was a good look seemed like a strange thing for scum to do right off the bat. Also i liked the fact that he realized he was being ridiculous regarding his push on me

but in retrospect it does read a bit weird. why was he SO against those popular wagons? esp since the slots the were on seem objectively wayyyy scummier than Me / Jexs / UP.

i forgot Lore replaced maven, so I didn't even realize the plethora of times doop defended maven early on. not until I got to gorfs #1501. and man there really are a ton of connections there

so im leaning scum on this slot based just based on the sheer amount of defenses / connections between them and doop. seems like there's momentum moving this way and im def down with that direction




and I still really dislike JTB's slot. such garbage contributions and terrible responses to my questions..

________________________________________________________________________________________________
IN SUMMARY
plays for today (in order):
JTB
Rockin
Lore

Wary of:
Tom
maybe FF

Want to hear more from:
Nabe (actually down for an inactive lynch here)

 

[ranmaru]

No. I am saying Lore-kary-ryker is the pairing that makes sense here. At the very least, there is a connection between Kary and Lore. (the blow up)

Rockin does not fit in that team. (Rockin could be scum with Ryker though)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

that post got wayyyy longer than I thought it would, but im happy I got it out before work ended lol. (rip my productivity)

I know i have some questions directed to me, but I probably won't be able to get to them or any of the recent developments until tomorrow

though to respond to one of @Pythags:

marshy def influences my Tom / JTB reads. I think him and I were mostly on the same page yesterDay, though he was more open about his dislike for Tom. so yea marshy dying did make me more wary of Tom specifically, gotta carry on the mantle. JTB is just a gross slot all around

but re: Rockin, nah kevin's death didn't really move me on that slot. i never get Kevin's reads.. so ya. but I guess from a straight mafia 101 perspective, Kevin dying is not a good look for Rockin

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | Mac I highly implore you to re-visit your read on him in future days. Please trust me on this.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

my read on who? ranmaru

 

[ranmaru]

Lmao damn it. Ryker. I know I told you this, and this amplifies if Lore is scum.

 

[Pythag]

ranmaru

ryker posted it, I think, asking if anyone knew if they would be willing to fake a blow up for a win, I imagine that's the thought you're entertaining, yes? what did you make of that argument?

 

[ranmaru]

Also on Kary. I think Kary needs a more thorough read. I am talking about him on this page.

 

[Pythag]

#HBC | Mac Since you're here, is all you have then the mantle from Marshy? I was doing some rereading, and I'm going to be honest, I see where you're coming from with regard to the Ran V Tom. How do YOU see that interaction? Especially in light of the Marshy flip?

 

[ranmaru]

ranmaru

ryker posted it, I think, asking if anyone knew if they would be willing to fake a blow up for a win, I imagine that's the thought you're entertaining, yes? what did you make of that argument?

Yes. I thought it was odd Kary would make such a quip if they were working things out from the last game. It was also unnecessary because Kary answers the question after Lore's blow up. He could have answered first and avoided that.

 

[Pythag]

Yes. I thought it was odd Kary would make such a quip if they were working things out from the last game. It was also unnecessary because Kary answers the question after Lore's blow up. He could have answered first and avoided that.

Let me know how you find this then :

I reread most of Kary:
What I did find strange, was Kary's interaction with Lore. Or at the very least, inconsistent.
Maybe people avoided it because feels, maybe I'm poking the bear, but this struck me as weird :

Lore asks for a different perspective, maybe like a gut check from Kary, because Kary's good at those things.

Kary responds with :

Spoiler

@Lore seems like that would involve reading your posts.

Later, post blow up, your defense is :

Spoiler

My having an opinion on whatever problem you have with Mac would require me to be caught up, or in other words, to read your posts.

So you haven't read something until you've read it? Uou don't have an opinion until you have one? You felt that was necessary to share as a defense?

I find this inconsistant with early interaction with Ryker :
Ryker quoted or responded to your post saying he liked it, and you responded with "did you forget about the like button"
To say that you need to read something to have read it / have an opinion is remarkably redundant, especially for you.

I think you're playing ignorant if you didn't think that would be a frustrating thing for Lore to read.

You furthermore claim that because you're being asked a question, you're assuming that Lore thinks you as town, as seen in this post.

Spoiler

Of course I could just say that explicitly, but that doesn't answer my questions. Why you are asking me in the first place? You seem to have caught up on the thread in a surprisingly quick amount of time, and I feel as though your asking me this sort of question implies you have me at a town read. There is also the obvious question of why you are pursuing something if you yourself think it could be nothing.

Those questions of yours, that you didn't vocalize to Lore until after he was mad?

Spoiler

Your explanation answers some of these questions, but this isn't RVS anymore, and I don't think you should be basing your questions around some baggage from a previous game.

He didn't write that as his reason in the post, he said you were good at giving perspectives. He wrote that after you dismissed him.

Spoiler

And I'm not a mind reader, so if you want to offer me an olive branch you could just say as much.

like you could've just answered explicitly, as you stated above? lol.


We do know Lore has said post question, it was an olive branch, but at the time it was a question and you take it as assumption that Lore views you as town.
I think that's a reach.

Even if it were the case, Here's what you said to UP about Null reads, and questions:

Spoiler

My normal thought process when I have a null read is 'what can I ask this person to improve my read on them' not 'better tell everyone I have a null read'.

I don't think Lore mentioned anything about your alignment, just about your meta.
Perhaps this question was going to be a way of him confirming a read on you.

Regardless I find this interaction fishy.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

#HBC | Mac Since you're here, is all you have then the mantle from Marshy? I was doing some rereading, and I'm going to be honest, I see where you're coming from with regard to the Ran V Tom. How do YOU see that interaction? Especially in light of the Marshy flip?

what do you mean all i have?

i feel like ive posted a bunch about my issues with Tom

but to reiterate: my problem with Tom in RanvTom is that it seemed like he stoking the flames of the Ran wagon based off shoddy reasons. It seemed initially that he was pushin Ran for those reasons, but apparently I misread and he was just joking and then explaining why others might find him scummy.

still feels weird that he didn't seem to have an issue with other players taking awful talking points and using them against Ran and that he didn't really have any follow re: that whole situation despite saying he was specifically lookin for reactions from ppl regarding it. currently it feels similar to my issue with Rockin on the wagon, where he's kinda stoking the flames of the wagon without really commiting to it

Tom's answers to my questions did temper my feelings on the slot a bit though.. im now just waiting to see more from him

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ok i gotta dip for the day