As someone that literally hated Xonar as much as you can hate someone for petty internet **** after BIM:Redux, this is complete godgorfdamn insanity. (Don't worry Xonar you're obviously a homie now I'm just sayin', I gots no bias up in hurr)
I understand -- wait, no, sorry, gotta answer the question
EE WHY ARE HERE I THOUGHT YOU WUZ GOIN AWAY
yeah yeah shut up stu flashed the batsignal and I'm a glutton for punishment.
Okay so where was I? Xonar. And adum and stuff. I understand how it started. This is what happened:
-Adum sees Xonar. Adum is not a very present guy, so he finds this alarming because he didn't know he existed after BIM2 I guess. So he talks to Xonar.
-WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT CONVERSATION STOP PRETENDING YOU KNOW LIKE IT'S AN EMPIRICAL FACT. ANYONE THAT SAYS THEY OR PURPORTS TO KNOW HOW THEIR CONVERSATION WENT WITHOUT READING IT IS SIMPLY TRANSPLANTING ILLOGICAL BIAS AS FACT.
-We know they talked or whatever and Xonar thought he was joking (fair. It's been two years!) Adum brings his concern, having taken away from the conversation that he's been given the okay to bring it public, not that that means that is what happened, at all. This is the impression he took away, and if Xonar thought he was kidding, he could very easily make it seem like he was okaying something when he had no idea what Adum was getting at. Miscommunication is quite obviously a thing. Anyway, I thought Adum raised his concern fairly quietly/respectfully considering what he thought Xonar was like at the time of making the post. Yes, it was a bit impulsive to assume Xonar is the same... but knee jerk reactions are a thing. Chill, peeps.
-People react. I thought Xonar actually kept an admirably cool head. Some people have a bit of a stronger response (out of understandable confusion), and this results in impulsive kneejerk responses to an.... impulsive kneejerk response.
-frozen escalates. I'm not on anyone's "side" here, but these posts were unnecessary and unfair to boot. Yes, there's absolutely a point to be made about "who has the moral high ground". Except... this is the mafia subcommunity on Smash World Forums, not the Morals & Ethics subcommunity of If You **** Up You Can Go Die In A Fire Forever World Forums.
Let's be rational. Remember what I said about hating everything about Xonar's guts other than the fact that they weren't spilling out of a cavernous wound (I MAY be embellishing for comedic effect)? Invalid now. I've played several games with Xonar recently, and I can say a few important things about my experience. Xonar has changed. Xonar plays to his wincon. Xonar understands mafia. Xonar does not troll.
Not that I was holding a grudge, given how utterly, utterly, utterly utterly long it's been since BIM:2. Two years is long enough to change religions, political affiliation, fall in love, get married, and meditate on and then make the decision to get a sex change. That's real life years. Two years! People change in MONTHS. Add in the fact that Xonar was an adolescent back in 2010 iirc and, well, c'mon. C'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn homie. C'mon!
Two real life years translates to a **** of a long time in internet years. Xonar is completely different, and dredging up his past was unnecessary, but also totally understandable in adum's case in the context of a kneejerk panic reaction as he did not understand the situation.
I'd also like to point out Xonar's self-imposed pseudo-exile shortly after BIM:2.
Think of Xonar as a rehabilitated criminal (uh oh I'm nearing the Hitler Analogy border of this debate). There's nothing to oppose here other than grudges.
Which is what was happening. A grudge. A fair grudge. It's your right to hold the grudge. But exorcizing the demons of this grudge dumped gasoline all over a fire that had already doused itself down to an ember and started a forest fire. Sorry, frozenhomie. It is what it is; unlike adum people had made it very clear in the thread before you started posting about Xonar that Xonar had changed and shown months of solid, fair, wincon-toward-moving play. Your grudge colored the situation and your post, regardless of who has what highround of what kind, made a true Situation (insert guido) out of something that was nearly resolved, and also showed you to be vindictive, something I've never seen from you. I understand it. I get it. BIM:2 was stupid, irksome, horrific levels of bad.
But it was two years ago.
Hold your grudge if you want to. That is absolutely your right. But keep it out of the social thread. Fair? Fair.
I'm going to ruminate on those infractions but people being banned as a result of trying to steer the thread away from drama doesn't sit well with me. I will say, however, that two types of ultimatums were issued here by Raz as a moderator:
1) Continuing this argument will constitute breaking of the rules and result in infractions. This I stand by. The argument needed to be moved out of the Social Thread (if it needed to continue at all; imo everybody should just hug it out and move on).
If an argument has become particularly disruptive or heated, it is completely within the rights of a moderator to issue the order that it not be continued on its current platform. In this case: the Social Thread. Raz did so. I stand by that decision. Issuing infractions for said continuances of the argument on the now disallowed platform is also completely within the rights of the moderator. This is the fundamental aspect of how moderation works and how it cleans up drama and vitriol so everyone can enjoy the room again.
I won't infract frozen for posting again, because pissing on the situation some more after the fact will help nothing. However, this is seriously it. When this thread gets reopened, if anyone posts again in relation to the situation to continue this argument, they're getting a 2-pointer. Flaming or Trolling. Whichever feels more right for the situation. Just let it go. Or spam each other's inboxes with goat porn and profanities if you have to. (Please don't I'm kidding).
2) Second ultimatum was to stop with the Damn Straight spam and so forth. Not sure i'm with this one. As always -- I understand how and why. I'll be in the chamber of understanding.
The thing to take away from all this is that no one is a bad guy here. Everyone had an understandable root to their behavior and I blame no one for how things unfolded. We have a series of misunderstandings, kneejerk reactions, and splash of deeply entrenched and strong beliefs with a combo of being on a subcommunity that literally deifies argumentation. Try to absorb that message, I guess. If this thread gets opened and explodes again, I really will leave DGames forever (in all capacities... social too) because this **** is not only ridiculous but not the DGames I was a part of when Eor first took his proposal to the Staffer Shack.
For the love of the flying spaghetti monster, though, guys. Just keep this **** out of the social thread. Just do it. Do it. Marshy would back me up on this: It's time to do it.
Doing it = keeping this **** out of the social thread.
It's time to do it. Do it.
Hell, I mentioned Eor. Let's conjure up Eor, the guy who built thisbear cave forum we call home for us. Eor the exiled one. Eor is one of the most chill people I have ever known. I think you could pick a fight with him at a bar and he would hang out with you the next day and pass you a hit of his good stuff if you apologized.
He probably hasn't read the boards in months. How do you think he'd feel to see what DGames has fallen into? If he hopped on to check on DGames on a whim and saw thisgodgorfdamn insanity? We were all homies when he founded DGames. Let's try to follow that example.
I'll take the Eor thing one step further. Here's a picture of a bear.
It's time to do it. Do it for the bear. Do it for DGames.
errbody just chill
I understand -- wait, no, sorry, gotta answer the question
EE WHY ARE HERE I THOUGHT YOU WUZ GOIN AWAY
yeah yeah shut up stu flashed the batsignal and I'm a glutton for punishment.
Okay so where was I? Xonar. And adum and stuff. I understand how it started. This is what happened:
-Adum sees Xonar. Adum is not a very present guy, so he finds this alarming because he didn't know he existed after BIM2 I guess. So he talks to Xonar.
-WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT CONVERSATION STOP PRETENDING YOU KNOW LIKE IT'S AN EMPIRICAL FACT. ANYONE THAT SAYS THEY OR PURPORTS TO KNOW HOW THEIR CONVERSATION WENT WITHOUT READING IT IS SIMPLY TRANSPLANTING ILLOGICAL BIAS AS FACT.
-We know they talked or whatever and Xonar thought he was joking (fair. It's been two years!) Adum brings his concern, having taken away from the conversation that he's been given the okay to bring it public, not that that means that is what happened, at all. This is the impression he took away, and if Xonar thought he was kidding, he could very easily make it seem like he was okaying something when he had no idea what Adum was getting at. Miscommunication is quite obviously a thing. Anyway, I thought Adum raised his concern fairly quietly/respectfully considering what he thought Xonar was like at the time of making the post. Yes, it was a bit impulsive to assume Xonar is the same... but knee jerk reactions are a thing. Chill, peeps.
-People react. I thought Xonar actually kept an admirably cool head. Some people have a bit of a stronger response (out of understandable confusion), and this results in impulsive kneejerk responses to an.... impulsive kneejerk response.
-frozen escalates. I'm not on anyone's "side" here, but these posts were unnecessary and unfair to boot. Yes, there's absolutely a point to be made about "who has the moral high ground". Except... this is the mafia subcommunity on Smash World Forums, not the Morals & Ethics subcommunity of If You **** Up You Can Go Die In A Fire Forever World Forums.
Let's be rational. Remember what I said about hating everything about Xonar's guts other than the fact that they weren't spilling out of a cavernous wound (I MAY be embellishing for comedic effect)? Invalid now. I've played several games with Xonar recently, and I can say a few important things about my experience. Xonar has changed. Xonar plays to his wincon. Xonar understands mafia. Xonar does not troll.
Not that I was holding a grudge, given how utterly, utterly, utterly utterly long it's been since BIM:2. Two years is long enough to change religions, political affiliation, fall in love, get married, and meditate on and then make the decision to get a sex change. That's real life years. Two years! People change in MONTHS. Add in the fact that Xonar was an adolescent back in 2010 iirc and, well, c'mon. C'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn homie. C'mon!
Two real life years translates to a **** of a long time in internet years. Xonar is completely different, and dredging up his past was unnecessary, but also totally understandable in adum's case in the context of a kneejerk panic reaction as he did not understand the situation.
I'd also like to point out Xonar's self-imposed pseudo-exile shortly after BIM:2.
Think of Xonar as a rehabilitated criminal (uh oh I'm nearing the Hitler Analogy border of this debate). There's nothing to oppose here other than grudges.
Which is what was happening. A grudge. A fair grudge. It's your right to hold the grudge. But exorcizing the demons of this grudge dumped gasoline all over a fire that had already doused itself down to an ember and started a forest fire. Sorry, frozenhomie. It is what it is; unlike adum people had made it very clear in the thread before you started posting about Xonar that Xonar had changed and shown months of solid, fair, wincon-toward-moving play. Your grudge colored the situation and your post, regardless of who has what highround of what kind, made a true Situation (insert guido) out of something that was nearly resolved, and also showed you to be vindictive, something I've never seen from you. I understand it. I get it. BIM:2 was stupid, irksome, horrific levels of bad.
But it was two years ago.
Hold your grudge if you want to. That is absolutely your right. But keep it out of the social thread. Fair? Fair.
I'm going to ruminate on those infractions but people being banned as a result of trying to steer the thread away from drama doesn't sit well with me. I will say, however, that two types of ultimatums were issued here by Raz as a moderator:
1) Continuing this argument will constitute breaking of the rules and result in infractions. This I stand by. The argument needed to be moved out of the Social Thread (if it needed to continue at all; imo everybody should just hug it out and move on).
If an argument has become particularly disruptive or heated, it is completely within the rights of a moderator to issue the order that it not be continued on its current platform. In this case: the Social Thread. Raz did so. I stand by that decision. Issuing infractions for said continuances of the argument on the now disallowed platform is also completely within the rights of the moderator. This is the fundamental aspect of how moderation works and how it cleans up drama and vitriol so everyone can enjoy the room again.
I won't infract frozen for posting again, because pissing on the situation some more after the fact will help nothing. However, this is seriously it. When this thread gets reopened, if anyone posts again in relation to the situation to continue this argument, they're getting a 2-pointer. Flaming or Trolling. Whichever feels more right for the situation. Just let it go. Or spam each other's inboxes with goat porn and profanities if you have to. (Please don't I'm kidding).
2) Second ultimatum was to stop with the Damn Straight spam and so forth. Not sure i'm with this one. As always -- I understand how and why. I'll be in the chamber of understanding.
The thing to take away from all this is that no one is a bad guy here. Everyone had an understandable root to their behavior and I blame no one for how things unfolded. We have a series of misunderstandings, kneejerk reactions, and splash of deeply entrenched and strong beliefs with a combo of being on a subcommunity that literally deifies argumentation. Try to absorb that message, I guess. If this thread gets opened and explodes again, I really will leave DGames forever (in all capacities... social too) because this **** is not only ridiculous but not the DGames I was a part of when Eor first took his proposal to the Staffer Shack.
For the love of the flying spaghetti monster, though, guys. Just keep this **** out of the social thread. Just do it. Do it. Marshy would back me up on this: It's time to do it.
Doing it = keeping this **** out of the social thread.
It's time to do it. Do it.
Hell, I mentioned Eor. Let's conjure up Eor, the guy who built this
He probably hasn't read the boards in months. How do you think he'd feel to see what DGames has fallen into? If he hopped on to check on DGames on a whim and saw this
I'll take the Eor thing one step further. Here's a picture of a bear.
It's time to do it. Do it for the bear. Do it for DGames.
errbody just chill
