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Asdioh

Asdioh

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praxis, is there any downside to going on that diet for about 2 weeks and then going back to whatever?

also, can you link me to what exactly you're allowed to eat? i realize it's a broad spectrum but i want a page to look at that lists stuff and quantities etc.
 
Praxis

Praxis

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Asdioh said:
praxis, is there any downside to going on that diet for about 2 weeks and then going back to whatever?

also, can you link me to what exactly you're allowed to eat? i realize it's a broad spectrum but i want a page to look at that lists stuff and quantities etc.
Click to expand...
Naw, I did it for one week in december (first week of december), lost ten pounds, got off of it for three weeks, then started again in January. My roommate did it for a week; after he lost 80 pounds eating <1000 calories a day, we all had an intervention because he was acting classic anorexic, eating almost nothing and getting malnourished. We convinced him to actually gain a few pounds (you could see his ribs). He was also convinced he could eat as much as he wanted on my diet and not gain weight.

His first week he was eating tremendous quantities compared to his previous habits- cheese and bacon covered steak with a side salad, etc. He ended up losing three pounds and quitting after a week because he figured he needed to gain weight and ramen was cheaper. xD



As to what you're allowed to eat, just count carbohydrates on labels, and make sure you don't count fiber. (If something is 22 carbs, but 18 of them are fiber, it only has 4 net carbs)

If you're eating ~20g of carbs a day or less, you'll be in ketosis.

That's it, really. As a general rule, you want >65% of your calories to come from fat...some people go for 80. Your body turns in to a fat burning machine.

So if you eat chicken, leave the skin on...fish? Cook it in olive oil or butter. Steak? Don't take off the fat, avoid the BBQ sauce cause it's all carbs (sugar).

Just check labels. You'll be surprised about a lot of things...milk has a lot of sugars, but they break down when it turns in to cream, so...no milk and generally avoid half & half, but heavy cream and cheese are A-OK. Similarly, beer is carb-loaded (sugars), but hard liquor (whiskey, vodka, gin, rum, etc) are fine because the sugars break down. (though liquor will slow weight loss, but won't knock you out of ketosis)

Oh, and never buy anything labelled low-fat. Low fat almost inherently means higher-carb. Fat free beef jerky is like 60% protein and 40% sugars...fat free cottage cheese has twice the sugars of 4% milkfat...etc.


Personally, I eat either eggs, bacon, or cottage cheese (or combination of two) for breakfast every morning. I'll have a veggie meal (butter or olive oil added) with cheese on the side and a meat meal, or half-and-half both meals, for lunch and dinner.

If you feel crappy at any point (especially the first three days), increase salt, potassium, magnesium, and water intake. Generally, that means have some salted avocado or spinach, or have a multivitamin, or have a sugar-free powerade/gatorade with electrolytes.

Portions? Don't worry about them, just don't overeat. Your body isn't geared to store after you get past the first three days, so basically, if you feel hungry, it's cause you need it. Just eat till satisfied, don't stuff yourself (overeating on keto generally leads to stalling, not gain, though...see the links I posted to the people who deliberately overate and didn't gain weight).


Depending on the person, I've seen the following common positive side-effects reported:
* For a lot of people, the increased intake of oils results in the clearing up of their skin. My roommate noticed this.
* After the first half-week, most people report feeling increased energy levels.
* A keto diet actually heavily reduces symptoms of epilepsy and is often used to treat it.
* Some people have had other major life improvements because, as it turned out, they were allergic to gluten. Stuff like joint pains and ADD reduced.

Common negative side effects:
* Constipation if you don't get enough fiber...eat more veggies, or take a supplement
* Dehydration, if you don't increase water intake, it's not good for you
* Bad breath, sadly...side effect of fat metabolization. Ketones can leave a bad smell on your breath. How noticeable it is varies.

Use http://reddit.com/r/keto for tips and tricks and recipes.
EDIT: If you see anything bread-like, the boards has tons of baking tricks to make bread without using flour. "Oopsie bread" is an egg-and-cream-cheese based bread that has no grain. A lot of them also bake using ground flaxseed or almond meal, which is textured like and works like flour but much, much lower carbs.
 
CT Chia

CT Chia

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I didn't really get the sickness feeling at all. I def stuck to the whole < 20g per day for like 3 weeks, etc. However on the 4th (on 5th now) I started allowing moderated use of carbs, upping it to like 50-75 or less per day, basically a carb thing allowed on one meal per day. I know it kind of ruins the idea of it, but I wanted to make sure I didn't gain it all back if and when I go off the keto so I've been monitoring it as I ease back on. And after like a week of that I've continued to keep losing.
 
hunger!

hunger!

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Praxis said:
I strongly disagree with this, actually, and would love to debate it with you. Calories in/calories out model is way too simplified for practicality. The body's fat storage is mostly controlled by hormones in the same way that growth is.

A kid eats more because he has hormones telling his body to grow, and feels hunger as a response to that growth, and eats in response to the hunger. Similarly, if a person's body is hormonally telling them to store, they will store, and their body will tell them to eat.

The body's metabolism is capable of ramping up to burn excess calories to a limited degree if it is not trying to store, and similarly slowing down to conserve if it is trying to store. If your body is hormonally trying to store food, undereating by a small number of calories will not cause weight loss. The body can lower body heat, encourage you to be sluggish, etc. If this is the case, you can only lose weight by:

(A) Ignoring all body impulses and maintaining a significant calorie deficit, not eating when you're hungry, etc

or

(B) Finding a way to get your body to stop storing.

The problem with (A) is simple: if your body is trying to conserve, it will go to fat reserves last. You will sit there starving your muscles before the body goes to the fat reserves. You have to work out just to keep your muscles from degrading, and working out will make you even hungrier, which you have to fight more.


My solution was (B). There's lots of hormones that control fat storage- testosterone/estrogen among them- but insulin is one of the biggest factors. The point of insulin is to make the body store everything it can to get blood sugar down. When blood sugar spikes, insulin puts your body in full on storage mode, and you get hungry again faster because you didn't use most of the calories taken in. A ketogenic diet is designed to eliminate the storage response of insulin as much as possible- and guess what? People on a keto diet find it almost impossible to gain weight.

This guy on the Reddit keto board demonstrated it by eating >3000 calories a day- on purpose, for a week- and lost eight pounds. All meals logged.

This guy on a carnivore board force fed himself ~4000 calories a day (averaging 3800) for one month and did not gain a single pound.

This doesn't violate thermodynamics, but it demonstrates how poor the calories in/out model is. By eating a diet that minimizes hormonal storage responses from the body, the body ramps up its metabolism to burn any excesses and goes directly to fat reserves for any deficit without complaint. The diet is explicitly muscle sparing (it eliminates all storage response) and people tend to gain muscle easily with any workout while on the diet (I've gained significantly, first time with arm definition!).


IMO, this is actually the most feasible way to lose weight. I've done calorie counting, I've watched my roommate lose all his muscle mass along with 80 pounds calorie counting. Keto works better, for health, muscle strength, and lifestyle (I never deal with hunger, I eat whenever hungry because, as my body is not storing anything, my hunger is directly correlated with what my body needs).


As a side note- everyone has different sensitivity to insulin. People who are resistant to insulin have bodies that produce far more insulin to react to the same amount of blood sugars. For a person who has normal insulin sensitivity, calorie counting is pretty easy to do; the body does not go in to storage mode easily. For an overweight person, eating the same amount of sugar/grains produces a much stronger storage reaction.

This is why skinny people always think it's so easy to just count your calories; they don't get the same hunger cravings from eating the same food, because their bodies are not hormonally trying to store everything, and fat people must just have poor willpower.

Obviously, if you starve yourself, you will lose weight; I'm arguing that if you eat poor food choices, it will:
* Go slower than the calorie math would predict, because the body will try to store and lower metabolism
* Cost you your muscle mass first before going to fat reserves
* Leave you feeling constantly tired and drained and hungry
* If you ever start satisfying your hunger again, you will regain the weight much quicker than you lost it

And I feel that the above simply makes it impractical, though not impossible (like I said; my roommate did it. 80 pounds over 8 months, all muscle mass lost, constantly feeling sluggish and drained).
Click to expand...
namesearch just ***** me, thanks praxis
 
Evil Eye

Evil Eye

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The nice thing about Bleck Mang is that it'll be obvious who is posting.

So how did you get J to go along with a semen joke and that avatar? :b:
 
#HBC | J

#HBC | J

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Evil Eye said:
The nice thing about Bleck Mang is that it'll be obvious who is posting.

So how did you get J to go along with a semen joke and that avatar? :b:
Click to expand...
Haha I actually just didn't care and think it's mad funny.

Plus I let Gorf have free reign with what he wanted to do for our hydra.
 
~Bleck Mang~

~Bleck Mang~

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THERE'S SEMEN IN MY WALRUS
Evil Eye said:
The nice thing about Bleck Mang is that it'll be obvious who is posting.

So how did you get J to go along with a semen joke and that avatar? :b:
Click to expand...
The nice thing about Bleck Mang is that Gorf is in it.

EDIT: J was like yo make the hydra so I was like k. And I thought about making J things, and Gorf things, so the name has two of our little word schticks. The location has two of our little phrases. And the avatar, well I'm the gender and he's the shirt :cool:
 
Vinylic.

Vinylic.

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Actually, you are more attractive than intimidating.
But attractiveness makes people listen to you too, because they have respect towards you.
Being intimidating is the same, except that you'd be scary.
 
ranmaru

ranmaru

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Gorf you would look intimidating with a pic of you licking a lollipop.

:phone:
 
Asdioh

Asdioh

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>back on eating fatty food topic

Do most fast food places such as mcdonalds/taco bell count as the fatty type of stuff you're allowed to eat?
What did the Supersize Me guy do wrong?
 
Raziek

Raziek

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Asdioh said:
>back on eating fatty food topic

Do most fast food places such as mcdonalds/taco bell count as the fatty type of stuff you're allowed to eat?
What did the Supersize Me guy do wrong?
Click to expand...
Fries are loads of carbs, off the top of my head.

And assloads of sodium.
 
Vinylic.

Vinylic.

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Well, I don't really see anything wrong on supersize me. Most of it would probably be true, especially people becoming more stupid than usual. :|
 
Praxis

Praxis

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Asdioh said:
>back on eating fatty food topic

Do most fast food places such as mcdonalds/taco bell count as the fatty type of stuff you're allowed to eat?
What did the Supersize Me guy do wrong?
Click to expand...
Seriously, watch the documentary "Fat Head"; the first half of it is basically nothing but bashing on how bad Supersize Me was in every way, almost to the point of being obnoxious in repeating it.

The guy in Supersize Me ate like 5000 calories a day, and most of it was carb. Remember the sugar in the soda? And fries are basically carbs deep fried in the most unhealthy, unnutritious, high calorie oils available (vegetable oils are way less healthy than old fashioned lard).

Remember the guy in Supersize Me that ate nothing but Big Macs and was skinny? He didn't eat fries or sodas.


The guy in Fat Head demonstrates it by recreating the Supersize Me experiment, except with no fries and diet soda only, and orders only stuff like McDoubles that are meat-heavy, and loses ten pounds in the same one-month period.

The fries and pop and bread make you fat, not the meat. Eating 5000 calories and eating till you throw up also make you fat too. >_>

Supersize Me also did this obnoxious conspiracy-crap where they implied that fast food is the reason Americans are fat today, as if people were being forced to supersize, and seemed to agree with the idea that McDonalds should be considered responsible, throwing personal responsibility out of the window and pretending we're all sheep. I think we're fat more because we're fed really bad eating advice, and also don't exercise much responsibility.

The second half of Fat Head is basically showing why a keto diet will actually improve most vitals (like cholesterol) and health.
 
Asdioh

Asdioh

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interesting. you and a couple others i've seen have raved about the success... it sounds relatively easy and extremely effective, so i wonder why it isn't freaking common knowledge at this point? when i first saw you post i was like "not sure if serious" because it sounds so... opposite of what society tries to teach you.
 
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