Social DGames Social | V/LA |

[adumbrodeus]

Hi everyone

heeeeeeeey

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

http://smashboards.com/threads/dgames-social-v-la.243825/page-779#post-15166903

bumpin a dgames classic

I liked your avatar with Jupiter better, Venus is also cool though.

Also,

 

[adumbrodeus]

did he have drops of jupiter in his hair?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

did he have drops of jupiter in his hair?

Never heard that song before.

 

[Circus]

i also don't feel like getting involved, but i have to make a point. i'll TRY to keep it quick:

yes, sex appeal inadvertently caters towards sexual objectification of individuals, but it also caters to underlying sexual fulfillment. yes, i am a proponent for porn accessibility. does porn potentially cater to increased habits of objectification? abso-freaking-lutely. i mean, if you have qualms with bayonetta, you have GOT to have problems with porn, because porn is essentially the king of sexual objectification of individuals.

the reality: we just need to actually be mature about it and realize that yes, while we find sex appeal to be sensual, we have to acknowledge that the people involved are real, multidimensional, and should at least be treated like human beings. if someone isn't giving someone respect on the grounds of sexual objectification, they will eventually hit a serious reality check.

i mean, you don't even have to do that for bayonetta because she isn't a real person, but i would hope people can draw the distinction between fiction and reality, as well as not inadvertently developing habits of treating women poorly as a result of playing a video game. but lets be honest here, how often does this actually happen in correlation with video games?

"i mean, if you have qualms with bayonetta, you have GOT to have problems with porn, because porn is essentially the king of sexual objectification of individuals."

That's a very sweeping (and very incorrect) generalization to make. In fact, I kind of can't believe you think this? Do you really equate all forms of media that utilize sexuality in this way? That you're even making the comparison kind of shows that there's an issue lying underneath Bayonetta's perceived sexual dominance.

I think porn is fine. It's a specific form of, uh...entertainment, that involves consenting adults (hopefully!) that I do expect people to be able to distinguish as a fantasy. But it is designed to be objectifying. It is designed to reduce its subjects to just their bodies and sexualities so as not to distract the consumer from consuming it in the very singular way it is intended. However, it is my opinion that other media shouldn't all cater in the same way and to the same people as porn does. Fictional characters can and should be able to explore human sexuality in a mature way, and I actually think Bayonetta could be close to doing that with a few (major) tweaks. But the point is that at the end of the day, it still apparently appeals, on its own (as opposed to through rule 34) to the same sensibilities found in porn. Contrast that to, say, any video game in history with a male lead: they can be powerful and attractive and even express themselves as sexual beings, while still retaining complete agency and not being visually groped by the audience.

Compare and contrast the way in which Bayonetta moans while being stripped naked by enemies in order to prepare for battle in this scene, with the way that Dante in DMC redresses himself in a way that expresses his badass reflexes and hand-eye coordination to prepare for battle while various airborne objects comically obscure his naughty bits in this scene. Both scenes involve the main character expressing their sexuality on some level, but despite both characters carrying themselves with the same confidence, the scenes are presented to the audience with very different intent. The scene involving Bayonetta borders on pornographic, as Bardull alluded to, where as the scene involving Dante just serves as shorthand for Dante's (excuse me) devil-may-care attitude, general badassery and a bit of comic relief. For Dante, it's one scene that exists precisely to convey information about his personality and abilities to the audience. For Bayonetta, it's one in a sea of disposable money shots.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This argument actually makes sense here because she's designed to fulfill male gender roles and part of that is being sexually aggressive. Also she takes it up to 11.

That's not it at all. I'm not touching it though.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Never heard that song before.

You're deprived

 

[Gova]

I wouldn't call that being stripped naked.

I think you're wrong but like Ryker not gonna touch it either.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You're deprived

I take it you recommend it?

I'll give it a listen and consider getting it on Itunes next pay check.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

wait test,



edit: Oh ok Gova just used a Capital G instead of a lower case lol, was gonna be pissed if that got removed.

 

[Circus]

I think you're wrong but like Ryker not gonna touch it either.

Well then this certainly has been a rousing discussion.

Also, once again, I am treated to Acro's baffling stance that criticism of media is invalid/fruitless because it's not directly about expressly stated real world rights. As if the art and entertainment we create and condone is not a reflection of our actual culture. Always a pleasure.

 

[Vinylic.]

Thinking about making some dgames smash tourney soon. If you guys do have smash bros for 3DS, right?

You'll be missing out on lots of muscles in the game if that's the case, because there are moments that are just nsfw. Too much to handle, really.

 

[BarDulL]

"i mean, if you have qualms with bayonetta, you have GOT to have problems with porn, because porn is essentially the king of sexual objectification of individuals."

That's a very sweeping (and very incorrect) generalization to make. In fact, I kind of can't believe you think this? Do you really equate all forms of media that utilize sexuality in this way? That you're even making the comparison kind of shows that there's an issue lying underneath Bayonetta's perceived sexual dominance.

you're coming off as pretentious. 'i kind of can't believe you think this.' frankly i'm not interested in hearing your opinion on what you personally think of how i think, especially when it comes off as rude and condescending. it doesn't strengthen your argument, and i'd much rather hear the cold hard facts; stick to the argument where it counts.

i made the comparison because YOU have pointed out that bayonetta is objectified as a result of the sex appeal in the game. my response was to compare other forms of media that objectify women that seem to apparently be justifiable in modern society, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do from my standpoint. you need to chill out.

I think porn is fine. It's a specific form of, uh...entertainment, that involves consenting adults (hopefully!) that I do expect people to be able to distinguish as a fantasy. But it is designed to be objectifying. It is designed to reduce its subjects to just their bodies and sexualities so as not to distract the consumer from consuming it in the very singular way it is intended. However, it is my opinion that other media shouldn't all cater in the same way and to the same people as porn does. Fictional characters can and should be able to explore human sexuality in a mature way, and I actually think Bayonetta could be close to doing that with a few (major) tweaks. But the point is that at the end of the day, it still apparently appeals, on its own (as opposed to through rule 34) to the same sensibilities found in porn. Contrast that to, say, any video game in history with a male lead: they can be powerful and attractive and even express themselves as sexual beings, while still retaining complete agency and not being visually groped by the audience.

here's my problem with your opinion: i don't understand your beef with bayonetta if you're entirely ok with porn as a form of entertainment. like, just because it is 'intended' to objectify women shouldn't make it any more justifiable as an art form from your point of view. like...what the hell? how can you even complain about bayonetta then when one of bayonetta's very intentional characteristics is sex appeal? it was intentional, so where's the underlying problem? you're just spouting social justice hot air for like no reason...lol.

i think you are bashing on bayonetta for the wrong reasons. i understand the underlying concern, because we obviously want women to be treated fairly. right? i mean, that IS what this is about, correct? however, bayonetta is doing something that pretty much no other game does with its female leads on purpose. mainstream console games that do this are very, very, rare. your bashing on the game is silly because frankly the extent to which bayonetta blatantly goes to appeal to its audience is beyond atypical media norms. the fact that YOU are drawing comparisons to bayonetta's sex appeal and other forms of media outside of porn actually alludes to a personal problem YOU have. the two are nowhere near one and the same.

Compare and contrast the way in which Bayonetta moans while being stripped naked by enemies in order to prepare for battle in this scene, with the way that Dante in DMC redresses himself in a way that expresses his badass reflexes and hand-eye coordination to prepare for battle while various airborne objects comically obscure his naughty bits in this scene. Both scenes involve the main character expressing their sexuality on some level, but despite both characters carrying themselves with the same confidence, the scenes are presented to the audience with very different intent. The scene involving Bayonetta borders on pornographic, as Bardull alluded to, where as the scene involving Dante just serves as shorthand for Dante's (excuse me) devil-may-care attitude, general badassery and a bit of comic relief. For Dante, it's one scene that exists precisely to convey information about his personality and abilities to the audience. For Bayonetta, it's one in a sea of disposable money shots.

great anecdotal evidence...i think? i don't get what this last paragraph proves. what, do you want me to pull out a clip from a game where the leading male is a macho presumably sexy buff dude with a kinky butt saving the world? what, are you going to justify that he needs that type of body in order to save the world? sure he does, that's an appropriate justification I GUESS, but the bottom line is that his physique still appeals to the populace attracted to males, which will inadvertently lead to objectification anyway. big surprise! and guess what: SEVERAL GAMES HAVE PRESUMABLY SEXY MALE LEADS. you really need to chill out with your social justice high horse because you're dead wrong this time around. there might be varying degrees of blatancy in this regard in terms of games that do this intentionally, but they are there when they don't necessarily need to be the way they are for the game to progress.

if you want to continue this discussion in pms, that's fine with me. i'm not interested in talking about it any further in the thread anyway until you cool off.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

PMs would be a wonderful place to take this, actually.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Well then this certainly has been a rousing discussion.

Also, once again, I am treated to Acro's baffling stance that criticism of media is invalid/fruitless because it's not directly about expressly stated real world rights. As if the art and entertainment we create and condone is not a reflection of our actual culture. Always a pleasure.

The way he worded it was... confusing to be honest.

Art in any form is a reflection of our culture as a whole. Whether an actual piece of a canvas with paint on it or another more metaphorical medium. Our culture is reflected in the things we make and the things we do. Thinking that "I don't see it this way" doesn't make it not a part of us as a whole. Even a small part of our culture, such as a game, defines us as who we are. I think that in a game that idolizes the "perfect" woman who is scantily clad with larger breasts is actually humiliating for us. We sexualize women in such a way that it's hard for them to break away from that image. The image defines itself, no matter how many people might think that on a larger scale this one thing won't matter they're wrong. It's not even one thing, look around there's the image of sex and idolizing everywhere within our society.

Take this axe commercial for instance. It's not advertising a brand of deodorant anymore, it's saying if you buy this you will have all the women you want. I'm not saying that this applies only to women being objectified, it happens to males as well, however, there is a much larger quantity of women being objectified in our society. It's a terrible thing to have in a society, to be less than a person and more of a reward for doing or being someone.

 

[BarDulL]

PMs would be a wonderful place to take this, actually.

we'll do it only if you remove that kawaii anime girl from your avatar, your deliberate objectification of women is disrespectful

/jokes

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'll withhold final judgement on bayonetta 2 til I've played, but I do think it's at the very least an attempt to do this right which is laudable. Much like sucker punch was attempting to tackle actually this exact same type of issue, though from a slightly different angle and had issues for entirely different reasons.


I acknowledge that scene had different connations, but different doesn't necessarily mean that she loses agency. Men while not common in gaming, men in art being portrayed as sexual to the point of being pornographic isn't uncommon in media aimed at men, but the point is for viewer self-insertion in those cases. That the whole point of male power fantasy in general.

But then the butt-bounce shot... idk will consider.

I take it you recommend it?

I'll give it a listen and consider getting it on Itunes next pay check.

Highly, it's a great song. Listening to it right now actually.

@Ryker Yes, I knew we had different reasons, assumed that we seemingly agree on the end result though.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

we'll do it only if you remove that kawaii anime girl from your avatar, your deliberate objectification of women is disrespectful

/jokes

Don't be a ****.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nintendo what did you change to smash 4 with patch 1.0.3, I will find out.

 

[Vinylic.]

Nintendo what did you change to smash 4 with patch 1.0.3, I will find out.

I'm literally finding out too. Are looking at all the exploits and glitches in the game? Like ZSS infinite on shulk? Wario's odd vectoring or Yoshi's hyperslide? Change in crouches?

 

[BSL]

Thoughts. Do they deserve it if they go undefeated?

Also, what's up with Megatron? Three weeks is a long time for a sprained ankle.

No. They have one win against a team with a winning record, one more on the way. Strength of schedule should be a big factor in placement.

Don't know what the other thing means.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

PMs would be a wonderful place to take this, actually.

Why? Does having it in public offend your delicate sensibilities?

I'm enjoying reading the discussion.

 

[Maven89]

Take this axe commercial for instance. It's not advertising a brand of deodorant anymore, it's saying if you buy this you will have all the women you want. I'm not saying that this applies only to women being objectified,

That is really stretching it. Saying "This deodorant will make you attractive to women" is not objectifying women. It's an appeal to men who want to attract women. That's not sexist.

I'll also add that all my talk about gender roles don't apply to gay people as obviously they have their own thing going on. I actually lived with a gay man for around three months, so I know for a fact that he was just fundamental different then a straight man, even outside of his sexual preference.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I was about to reply to the post above but me openly agreeing with Circus would rip the galaxy apart.

It'd ruin the entire dGames plot.

So instead I leave y'all this

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Why? Does having it in public offend your delicate sensibilities?

I'm enjoying reading the discussion.

Sort of? I don't actually post anything here anymore primarily because of the domination of this sort of conversation that I'm not particularly interested in. The fact that touchy issues can be off putting to potential new users looking to join this board is something that legitimately bothers me, but I doubt I can do anything about. The abundant opportunity for Gorf to take a stance in the most offensive way possible has also gotten old, so there's that less magic in the world.

So, no, the conversation is no skin off my nose. However, I am somewhat annoyed at the ramifications of the conversation.



I'm curious how much more lighthearted this social thread would be if Acro was limited to posting once a week. I don't think he could really hijack the thread for the full week consistently, but I'll give him enough credit to say he'd try and would likely succeed once ever other month or so.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Sort of? I don't actually post anything here anymore primarily because of the domination of this sort of conversation that I'm not particularly interested in. The fact that touchy issues can be off putting to potential new users looking to join this board is something that legitimately bothers me, but I doubt I can do anything about. The abundant opportunity for Gorf to take a stance in the most offensive way possible has also gotten old, so there's that less magic in the world.

So, no, the conversation is no skin off my nose. However, I am somewhat annoyed at the ramifications of the conversation.



I'm curious how much more lighthearted this social thread would be if Acro was limited to posting once a week. I don't think he could really hijack the thread for the full week consistently, but I'll give him enough credit to say he'd try and would likely succeed once ever other month or so.

This is the social thread. If people don't want to participate, they don't have to. It's silly to say "I don't want to participate in this conversation, and neither should you, because other people might not like it." There's no reason we should not talk about things we want to discuss just because other people might not like it. If people don't want to hang out here because they don't like us, then they can just not hang out here. It's preferable to pretending we all just hold hands and sing kumbaya, when it's clearly not the case. Besides, discussions are pretty civil around here when Gorf isn't involved. People disagree with each other, but there's literally nothing wrong with that, and I don't get why people get so upset just because other people are having a disagreement in public that has nothing to do with them.

 

[Maven89]

Yeah i'll say this thread is way more interesting now then when it was just jokes and music videos

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

This is the social thread. If people don't want to participate, they don't have to. It's silly to say "I don't want to participate in this conversation, and neither should you, because other people might not like it." There's no reason we should not talk about things we want to discuss just because other people might not like it. If people don't want to hang out here because they don't like us, then they can just not hang out here. It's preferable to pretending we all just hold hands and sing kumbaya, when it's clearly not the case. Besides, discussions are pretty civil around here when Gorf isn't involved. People disagree with each other, but there's literally nothing wrong with that, and I don't get why people get so upset just because other people are having a disagreement in public that has nothing to do with them.

there's a bunch of problems with this.

this isn't the debate hall. we're not some specialized forum dedicated to arguing about personal politics, religion, gender studies, or other various topics at hand. this is a forum dedicated to mafia. while the occasional debate here or there is not bad, it seems like we're having srsbsns discussions every week because gorf stirred the pot again and circus can't tell when to let it go (an exaggeration but these types of topics are the only time the social thread is even really active anymore)

what we are is a community. a lot of **** happens behind the scenes in skype, but that doesn't change the fact that the rest of dgames' interaction outside of mafia games by and large takes place here. when people feel uncomfortable posting because circus and adumb wanna lecture us about gender politics then that's an issue to me. when people also don't feel welcome because good ol' uncle gorf wants to wheedle at everyone's insecurities then that also doesn't help. part of dgames feels it necessary to complain that we don't have enough new players, and the social thread becoming a place where people can't socialize because bayonetta is sexist garbage that belongs in a burning dumpster and everyone needs to know that is an extension of that problem.

also saying "discussions are pretty civil when gorf isn't involved" is like saying that russia would be pretty alright if putin wasn't involved. gorf's always there. always. dood's one of the more active dgamers. you expect him to blatantly miss an opportunity to **** with somebody?

there's nothing wrong with disagreements. it's the frequency of those disagreements.

 

[Maven89]

I mean where are you getting the idea that serious discussion is scaring away new people from DG games? I'd say DG players are what scares people away from DG

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I mean where are you getting the idea that serious discussion is scaring away new people from DG games? I'd say DG players are what scares people away from DG

edit: i misread

i have no real correlation, just a hypothesis that if you're scaring away vets who have roots in this subforum then it can't at all be welcoming for prospective players who've never been here before.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah i'll say this thread is way more interesting now then when it was just jokes and music videos

ngl tho it girl really is legit

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

also discussion is gonna happen when you put a bunch of intelligent people together, and mafia is the type of game to attract intelligent people ya know. idc either way, really, discussion or not

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yo washed, real talk here, last time we had a gender politics discussion before the double whammy of bayonetta and badwolf was weeks, might've even been months ago. What about before then? Topics occasionally come up, and if you try restricting a chat to topics to only topics enjoyed by everyone all you end up with is stilted discussion where people can't really talk about anything.


Furthermore I don't think social justice is really the trend you'd wanna look for in terms of conveying hostility to new players because it's rare, more likely it's the fact that we're all incorrigible pedants which colors pretty much every discussion here.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

dude i have so much charm shut your mouth the ladies love me

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ladies hmu im single ready to mingle

and i know youre all just objects and are probably asking for it so lmk if ur dtf

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

ladies hmu im single ready to mingle

and i know youre all just objects and are probably asking for it so lmk if when u can get over admitting that ur dtf

fixed that 1 4 u

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yo washed, real talk here, last time we had a gender politics discussion before the double whammy of bayonetta and badwolf was weeks, might've even been months ago. What about before then? Topics occasionally come up, and if you try restricting a chat to topics to only topics enjoyed by everyone all you end up with is stilted discussion where people can't really talk about anything.


Furthermore I don't think social justice is really the trend you'd wanna look for in terms of conveying hostility to new players because it's rare, more likely it's the fact that we're all incorrigible pedants which colors pretty much every discussion here.

i referenced gender politics because it's the most recent one. that doesn't stop people like acrostic coming in and talking about something serious every week. i don't mind it as much but others apparently do. i don't wanna limit it but i do think it gets outta line when someone (read: gorf) stirs the pot. i'd be fine if people recognized to let **** go and recognize they're either dealing with a troll or someone who they're not gonna convince.

and i was trying not to insult people.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

if you honestly think differently than me in any way shape or form youre less of a human being to me

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Well I'm a horse.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

if you honestly think differently than me in any way shape or form youre less of a human being to me

when did you become an sjw