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#HBC | ZoZo

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
9,800
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Land of Nether
I do not think bleach or naruto exemplifies anything but how to fluff up a story while still giving enough content to keep the average reader satisfied.

Bleach also exemplifies how not to draw backgrounds and how to kubo a kubo

 
#HBC | Acrostic

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,452
#HBC | ZoZo said:
I do not think bleach or naruto exemplifies anything but how to fluff up a story while still giving enough content to keep the average reader satisfied. Bleach also exemplifies how not to draw backgrounds and how to kubo a kubo
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The entire economic model behind writing manga is hook first with questionable substance later. It's no surprise that when you reward hookers all you get is sleazy story telling.
 
#HBC | ZoZo

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
9,800
Location
Land of Nether
#HBC | Acrostic said:
The entire economic model behind writing manga is hook first with questionable substance later. It's no surprise that when you reward hookers all you get is sleazy story telling.
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I'm going to assume you meant producing manga.

That said, you've read Liar Game, I can point you to plenty other manga that do well (Shin Angyo Onshi?). I think, because of the media, mainstream manga can miss out on a lot of nuance that books can afford. They also don't have the same visual and auditory stimulation that anime has, but in the end that gets compensated by the fact that you can afford a lot more with the lack of movement, as well as allowing users to pace themselves however they see fit. Not to mention, art style seems way less of an issue in mangas, with plenty of silly artstyles to go around. Then there's production costs and how easy it is to sell (a magazine vs dvd set)... idk man.
 
#HBC | Acrostic

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
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Messages
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#HBC | ZoZo said:
I'm going to assume you meant producing manga. That said, you've read Liar Game, I can point you to plenty other manga that do well (Shin Angyo Onshi?). I think, because of the media, mainstream manga can miss out on a lot of nuance that books can afford. They also don't have the same visual and auditory stimulation that anime has, but in the end that gets compensated by the fact that you can afford a lot more with the lack of movement, as well as allowing users to pace themselves however they see fit. Not to mention, art style seems way less of an issue in mangas, with plenty of silly artstyles to go around. Then there's production costs and how easy it is to sell (a magazine vs dvd set)... idk man.
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It's easy to sell 'for the corporation,' but it's not easy for a mangaka to release a hit with a publishing company. As I said before, the entire economic model behind writing manga is flawed and I thought you would understand the point I'm making because I clearly am talking about the model the industry has developed for initiating works for publishing and their lack of sustain viability to be oriented for a story focused appeal.

Considering other forms of story-digested media, we don't script our television shows on a weekly impromptu basis (except Fox News. Fair and Balanced. Most of the season, if not the entire season or more should be part of the pitch to the executives. When publishers release a book they aren't releasing 1/300th of the total book with promises of potential weekly updates. At least if viewer ratings are horrible for a show, usually rule of thumb is they allow the first season at least to finish. Also there is no weekly user feedback metric in the term of questionaires i.e. 25% of people think that Sakura is being useless so ditch her or find a viable ability for her. To clarify, writing in parts of the story for the sake of appealing to the audience rather than preserving intrinsic elements the author had planned or was planning from the start.

Manga as far as I'm concerned is a second-rate story telling medium because it's not rewarding or focus driven on story telling. The model is primarily based on how well the manga writer can hook the reader, provide what readers feel are material content (it's really not) and then bait them again with another hook that branches from the original hook. I talked about this before with Akame Ga Kill (not sure if spelling is right) and how the black pedophile clown was 1. out of place 2. killed within 5 chapters because 1. it likely generated controversy and 2. it ended any bad controversy. This is expected not from a story telling standpoint, but simply because one can discern that bad publicity is still publicity, but too much bad publicity seems like awful pandering.

The pedophile clown could never be the strongest character, the leader of even the enemies, or last more an arc because he doesn't have a real utility in a real story. Even Liar Game is suffering from issues of being drawn out and attempting to continue extending beyond what should have been its shelf life because it's now a recognized title. And yes, even television suffers horribly from this aside from a couple of strong series which off the top of my mind come to: The Wire, The Wire, and The Wire. I'm not sure if I'm being a snob critic here with respect to what constitutes story telling and not. However, hook oriented writing is not substance oriented writing which is not writing to me period. If I really did believe that a hook book was a piece of literature than I wouldn't be disillusioned by 50 Shades of Grey being a New York Times Bestseller.
 
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Gova

Gova

I'm goin' for it!
Joined
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NNID
Takicodos
Uh, what about the American comic book industry? That would be a more accurate comparison to make wrt manga.
 
#HBC | ZoZo

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
9,800
Location
Land of Nether
#HBC | Acrostic said:
It's easy to sell 'for the corporation,' but it's not easy for a mangaka to release a hit with a publishing company. As I said before, the entire economic model behind writing manga is flawed and I thought you would understand the point I'm making because I clearly am talking about the model the industry has developed for initiating works for publishing and their lack of sustain viability to be oriented for a story focused appeal.

Considering other forms of story-digested media, we don't script our television shows on a weekly impromptu basis (except Fox News. Fair and Balanced. Most of the season, if not the entire season or more should be part of the pitch to the executives. When publishers release a book they aren't releasing 1/300th of the total book with promises of potential weekly updates. At least if viewer ratings are horrible for a show, usually rule of thumb is they allow the first season at least to finish. Also there is no weekly user feedback metric in the term of questionaires i.e. 25% of people think that Sakura is being useless so ditch her or find a viable ability for her. To clarify, writing in parts of the story for the sake of appealing to the audience rather than preserving intrinsic elements the author had planned or was planning from the start.

Manga as far as I'm concerned is a second-rate story telling medium because it's not rewarding or focus driven on story telling. The model is primarily based on how well the manga writer can hook the reader, provide what readers feel are material content (it's really not) and then bait them again with another hook that branches from the original hook. I talked about this before with Akame Ga Kill (not sure if spelling is right) and how the black pedophile clown was 1. out of place 2. killed within 5 chapters because 1. it likely generated controversy and 2. it ended any bad controversy. This is expected not from a story telling standpoint, but simply because one can discern that bad publicity is still publicity, but too much bad publicity seems like awful pandering.

The pedophile clown could never be the strongest character, the leader of even the enemies, or last more an arc because he doesn't have a real utility in a real story. Even Liar Game is suffering from issues of being drawn out and attempting to continue extending beyond what should have been its shelf life because it's now a recognized title. And yes, even television suffers horribly from this aside from a couple of strong series which off the top of my mind come to: The Wire, The Wire, and The Wire. I'm not sure if I'm being a snob critic here with respect to what constitutes story telling and not. However, hook oriented writing is not substance oriented writing which is not writing to me period. If I really did believe that a hook book was a piece of literature than I wouldn't be disillusioned by 50 Shades of Grey being a New York Times Bestseller.
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I assumed you would not talk about the issues related to the industry because your initial point very clearly put the blame on the medium itself. Yes the industry is ****. The industry is competitive. The industry is about selling **** and oftentimes nothing else, because it's very work-intensive, cost-intensive, etc etc. Sounds familiar? Welcome to the anime/manga industry.
Also there is a weekly user feedback metric. Some magazines have a questionaire you can send in to them with your favourite mangas of the week, which measures popularity because there are lots of responses.

You keep talking about manga and then jumping to the model, which makes no sense to me. Are you talking about the industry or manga as a medium? Yes, in mainstream context a medium is restricted to its industry, but you're selling it short if that the only context you're viewing manga in is.
 
#HBC | Ryker

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
6,520
Location
Mobile, AL
I think it's funny that he wants to spite authority enough that he's eventually going to receive a permaban. I understand that we aren't going to care, but he's going to get banned because he literally can't be left unchecked. Please stop encouraging him.

Gorf, quit trying to get the mods in trouble.
 
FullMetalLynch

FullMetalLynch

anomandaris_rake|orboknown
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
1,842
I mean it says right there we can't post the words not pg and I totally did. I'm the bad boy girls get hot in the trousers for
 
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