Social DGames Social | V/LA |

[Rajam]

Does someone here play Puerto Rico or in boardgamearena?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

How about just talking about each part of our play then, instead of ranking it with a dot? Look at this:

1.Being correctly read as town. ("Transparency")
2. Having accurate reads. ("Accuracy")
3. Actively working to get your top scumread lynched. ("Rhetoric")
4. Accurately judging which players can be lynched. ("Foresight")
5. Securing the best possible lynch when your top scumread can no longer be lynched ("Pragmatism")

Talk about those 5 things, a little in depth if possible. Same thing but it's not ranking you?

Took this from Hito on Mafiascum. I was searching this forever. Source: On Compromises.

This is all just very subjective. These factors are determined from a personal bias and perception of how you perceive their play. if you wanted to have a more truthful and more insightful listing of this, you would ask players to rate themselves. I know for certain that I myself notice my mistakes and my strengths more than the person next to me. It might sound backwards for someone to critique and rate themselves, but that's where discussion comes in and you offer feedback. The only way I can ever see something like this working in DGames is if it's treated this way. We don't need a tier list, but critique wouldn't be a bad thing. I know that's why you're interested in knowing where you would stand if one was ever made, and that's why I am too.

How I would rate myself following a 5 star rating (I added some of my own):

Spoiler

Townplay -

1. Transparency: ★★★☆☆

I get misread a lot to due my impulsive behavior at times and my enigmatic approach to games. I am very emotional about things I feel strongly about which can either waiver to my favor or cause me to get mislynched. If I managed to stop being hot-headed and approach games with more care and caution, I believe this wouldn't happen as much.

2. Having Accurate Reads: ★★★½

My reads are usually accurate, but I have an inherent problem to back down on something, feeling that I might be wrong. This isn't always the case however, and sometimes my enthusiastic tunnels and calls to get someone lynched is the right way to go. There isn't an instinctive balance to the two and I feel majority of the time, like others, I make mistakes. When I'm right however, I'm right. I've never done it an grand fashion but I do try and present cases at times if again, I feel really strong about something. I could improve having more accurate reads by being more conservative, yet sticking with my gut. I need to trust on my instincts more often. There's also the fact that I do gauge my reads a lot wholly on Meta, but it's a double-edged sword that only sometimes reaps results.

3. Rhetoric: ★★★★☆

When I want something, I want something. I put my all into getting town to follow me, even if it's not in the most presentable fashion. Nobody can deny that I am not a vocal player and sometimes I feel this is my greatest strong point, even if it backfires on me sometimes. I make games centralize around me because of my approach and the way I present arguments. I will gladly tear someone down and rip into them if I need to, but recently I am trying to just learn to take a breather. I think letting everyone know where you want to go and what your reads are is great, but sometimes you're not needed and you don't need to carry the game on your shoulders. I will be damned if I don't try though sometimes.

4. Foresight: N/A

I think this is a weird thing to judge a player on honestly. The best lynch is characterized by what fits the situation, not what comes to instinct. Sure, the guy screaming "we must lynch inactives!!!" could very well be right, but it would also be wrong not to consider the players who are active. I think this is a silly thing to judge someone on, therefore I don't really have much of a personal opinion about it. I do what I think is right, whether it be going for inactives or something else.

5. Persuasion: ★★★★☆

A serious problem I've had in games before is that despite being on the right track, it was very hard to get people to agree with me. Lately, I feel that I don't struggle as much. Sure, there is times when I don't get the lynch I want, but I feel like people are interested in my opinions and lean on me at times. It's a good feeling, especially when I'm mafia.

6. Cooperation: ★★★★☆

I really do care about this game, maybe even a bit more than I should. I don't want to feel like I'm trying to figure things out on my own and I like to rely on other players as much as I like to rely on myself. I've never heard someone tell me that I'm not cooperative, which is why I probably blend so well as scum. There are times when I get a bit pissy with someone and tell them off, but I always always make sure I'm listening to the town and reading other arguments, not just mine.

7. Flexibility: ★★☆☆☆

I am not flexible. I struggle under pressure and I do not handle situations that leave me uncomfortable well at all. I get very stressed and nervous, and sadly those nerves cause me to make mistakes or even get people on my back. I need to learn to be more flexible and take things with a grain of salt. I need to learn to not get so emotional and take everything personally. This is a serious fault with my play.

Scumplay -

1. Manipulation: ★★★★☆

I am a manipulative ******* when it comes to being scum. I might not always be pulling all the strings, but I know I can work something into my favor. A serious strong-point for me as scum is that I don't have to worry about being right, so I don't feel pressured into being wrong. This makes it easier for me to push fiction as facts and cause mislynches because I don't have the pressure townies do to be right, I just have to make someone look worse than me. I believe I am not the best however, and players like EE are much better than me. Maybe I'll get there someday.

2. Presentation: ★★★★☆

My presentation is good, but that's because I only know myself so well. I feel there is a hole on my presentation and that's I tend to not get heated and I don't tend to push things so assertively as scum, but I've listened and I will be patching that up soon, so don't take that as a tell for too long.

3. Emulation: ★★★★★

As mentioned before, I know myself well. I know what people look in me to town-read me. I know what people want out of me. I know what I would do in a situation as town. It might be hard for someone to do the same, but for me it comes naturally. I never feel pressured as scum. I always feel relaxed, and maybe this is just recent. There have been times where I've flipped, but most of those are with a purpose to get people to town-read me. I pull out my Meta in situations that don't look favorable to me, because my Meta has become typical. This is probably why I emulate so well as scum, because people expect certain things out of me, and since I'm only concerned with how I look, I usually can appeal to what they're looking out of me. I feel I might be a bit big-headed when it comes to my bragging on things like this, but...

4. Confidence: ★★★★★

A reason why I brag about these things is because I have confidence in my scum-play. There are some people who either don't try enough to be town, or try too hard to be town. I don't feel like that and I always come into my scum-games feeling like I have a lot to work with. It's so weird because compared to my townplay, I'm not nearly as confident. I've heard someone tell me that I play like town when I'm scum and I play like scum when I'm town. It's probably true.

5. Distancing/Bussing: ★★★☆☆

I think I distance well with my partners, but I feel sometimes that it's obvious. My distancing with Dabuz only worked well because he responded well in Luigi's Mansion. I think that if I don't have a good partner to carry out my plans then it will blow up in my face. I am not afraid to bus my partners if needed, but I also think that I shouldn't be so willing to just call them scum. They're my partners and it would be best if I didn't treat them like an obstacle or just dead weight. There are times when bussing comes into play and is great to get some town-cred, but I digress.

6. Teamwork: ★★★½

This really depends on who I'm with on my team. I tend to try and tell my partner what I'm doing and how I'm going to approach things, but sometimes I make decisions on my own without prior notice. This is fine however, feeling like I focused on a plan instead of just doing what's best for me, I would be caught more often.

7. Skepticism: ★★★½

Skepticism is how townies look at you, and how they feel about you. You could be presenting yourself well and doing townie things, but there could always be a person to oppose you and say that there's a hole in your play. This is a problem I feel will become an issue in later games, as I feel people won't be willing to town-read me as easily and be more cautious with me. Players like marshy work better with their skepticism because their play as town demands just as much. It's why he can get away with so much as scum, because nobody questions his actions and just puts it down as 'marshy being marshy'. I am not the same however.

I typed a lot. Nobody will read that besides some curious people, but I would be delighted to see what others think of themselves too. It's why I layed this out, and if people wanna agree or disagree with my perception of me, then feel free to do so.

 

[Make it Rain!]

while i can see those town numbers, even if i disagree at some points

get out of here with those scum numbers lmao

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

while i can see those town numbers, even if i disagree at some points

get out of here with those scum numbers lmao

this is where critique comes in

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You overrate your rhetoric, persuation and cooperation by at least 1 star imho. You often try to be cooperative but lose your **** over the course of a game, you don't persuade a lot of people and your rhetorics are unremarkable.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Could you give examples @ ~ Gheb ~ ?

Do people see how much easier this is? It's more positive and more helpful. I'm totally okay with someone telling me that I'm overrating or underrating something. I just wanna improve in anyway I can, and I'm sure others do too.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why do you blow up in nearly every game? Because you almost always feel misunderstood or not taken as serious as you think you should. Why is that? Because in most instances you seem to get mad over the fact that people don't see things the way you do. That's *your* fault and it has always been. Every game has at least 2 or 3 townies that aren't complete brickheads and they *will* try to understand you. They still often fail to do so though. You're getting mad over other people a lot but you don't seem to be aware of the fact that you yourself are responsible for it.

If you don't get people to agree with you, content is rarely ever the issue. Unless you're talking to like Circus, marshy or me [+ handful of other smart players] you could probably say the most ******** **** and can still get away with it depending on *how* you say it. That's why I can pull off plays like I did it in Tranquility and get away with it. Because in most cases the way you say things matters a lot more than *what* you say in too many cases. That's just the way it is and the entire reason why I immediately called for @Circus to get NK'd straight away.
And if you haven't realized it by now, people don't like the way you say things. Simple as that. If you had good rhetorics and persuation skills you could change the way you say the things you wanna say and eventually *do* get people to agree with you. THAT NEVER HAPPENS THOUGH and it's not because of what you say is correct [or not] but because you never change the way you say things.

 

[Handorin]

My critique:
1.Being correctly read as town. ("Transparency")
-5 stars, because I play to scum
2. Having accurate reads. ("Accuracy")
5 stars. If I'm scum, everyone else must not be scum.
3. Actively working to get your top scumread lynched. ("Rhetoric")
0 stars. Work? I vote scum and wait for people to get in line.
4. Accurately judging which players can be lynched. ("Foresight")
5 stars. I don't care as scum, but if I'm indy, it's awesome. See: TNM
5. Securing the best possible lynch when your top scumread can no longer be lynched ("Pragmatism")
1 star, because I don't really conform to wrong reads.

Guys, if the mafia kill me because of my skillz, it's ok. I got this guy on my side:

 

[ranmaru]

I liked that, soup. I will try that myself after class.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

4/20: * * * * * *

In walrus we toast my man

Naw but for real doe I'm the king * * * * * errythang

 

[Nicholas1024]

Wow, the social thread has actually reached 1024 pages.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Naw but for real I appreciate you having it in you to put yourself out there soup. I don't mind giving it a shot.

Townplay -

1. Transparency: ★★★☆☆

I get misread a lot to due my impulsive behavior at times and my enigmatic approach to games. I am very emotional about things I feel strongly about which can either waiver to my favor or cause me to get mislynched. If I managed to stop being hot-headed and approach games with more care and caution, I believe this wouldn't happen as much.

My opinion: Accurate

You've got trouble connecting to people because the idea of not being heard seems to scare you. You need to be as cooperative with people as you want them to be with you, and when, like Gheb said, good players give you a chance, you WILL be heard. But don't shut out people that don't see eye to eye with you when you're town man. That actually hurts your game man.

2. Having Accurate Reads: ★★★½

My reads are usually accurate, but I have an inherent problem to back down on something, feeling that I might be wrong. This isn't always the case however, and sometimes my enthusiastic tunnels and calls to get someone lynched is the right way to go. There isn't an instinctive balance to the two and I feel majority of the time, like others, I make mistakes. When I'm right however, I'm right. I've never done it an grand fashion but I do try and present cases at times if again, I feel really strong about something. I could improve having more accurate reads by being more conservative, yet sticking with my gut. I need to trust on my instincts more often. There's also the fact that I do gauge my reads a lot wholly on Meta, but it's a double-edged sword that only sometimes reaps results.

My opinion: * * *

Soup you're not the best at reading. I'll be frank about it. But that's only because your style that you naturally play to is restricted when you get pissy. When you don't have your blinders on you DO read better though.

3. Rhetoric: ★★★★☆

When I want something, I want something. I put my all into getting town to follow me, even if it's not in the most presentable fashion. Nobody can deny that I am not a vocal player and sometimes I feel this is my greatest strong point, even if it backfires on me sometimes. I make games centralize around me because of my approach and the way I present arguments. I will gladly tear someone down and rip into them if I need to, but recently I am trying to just learn to take a breather. I think letting everyone know where you want to go and what your reads are is great, but sometimes you're not needed and you don't need to carry the game on your shoulders. I will be damned if I don't try though sometimes.

My opinion: * * 1/2

Soup you need to relax. Alongside Rake, you are actually one of the few players that, when you're playing with a super brash rhetorical approach, literally make me enjoy the game less. You become so offended when what you want doesn't happen, and it makes me ask myself why you even bother playing the game. You don't need the lungs to convince people, you DO know how to articulate yourself.

4. Foresight: N/A

I think this is a weird thing to judge a player on honestly. The best lynch is characterized by what fits the situation, not what comes to instinct. Sure, the guy screaming "we must lynch inactives!!!" could very well be right, but it would also be wrong not to consider the players who are active. I think this is a silly thing to judge someone on, therefore I don't really have much of a personal opinion about it. I do what I think is right, whether it be going for inactives or something else.

Yea I'd say I gotta agree. It's situational.

5. Persuasion: ★★★★☆

A serious problem I've had in games before is that despite being on the right track, it was very hard to get people to agree with me. Lately, I feel that I don't struggle as much. Sure, there is times when I don't get the lynch I want, but I feel like people are interested in my opinions and lean on me at times. It's a good feeling, especially when I'm mafia.

My opinion: * * * 1/2

I agree with the description, but not 4 stars lol. When you're on you're on, and it makes me wanna bite on what you've got in store. But when you're off, well you make it hard to feel your townmates, which is honestly important.

6. Cooperation: ★★★★☆

I really do care about this game, maybe even a bit more than I should. I don't want to feel like I'm trying to figure things out on my own and I like to rely on other players as much as I like to rely on myself. I've never heard someone tell me that I'm not cooperative, which is why I probably blend so well as scum. There are times when I get a bit pissy with someone and tell them off, but I always always make sure I'm listening to the town and reading other arguments, not just mine.

My opinion: * * *

You definitely read and take towns opinions and thoughts to mind, I'll give you that. But it seems like you feel like you deserve to get what you want done. You don't. Nobody just does. You gotta earn that **** by playing to townies, and sometimes putting your top priorities aside and cooperating with other players. Be willing to trust, even if it's temporary. They need votes for what they want as much as you need em lol.

7. Flexibility: ★★☆☆☆

I am not flexible. I struggle under pressure and I do not handle situations that leave me uncomfortable well at all. I get very stressed and nervous, and sadly those nerves cause me to make mistakes or even get people on my back. I need to learn to be more flexible and take things with a grain of salt. I need to learn to not get so emotional and take everything personally. This is a serious fault with my play.

My opinion: * 1/2

Dude this is literally what you need to fix for your play. Cleaning your flexibility will sharpen every other category because you won't get caught up with dumb ****. People pressuring you as town is dumb **** because you're town, right? Well there's nothing you can do about them wanting to pressure you, cuz that's their prerogative. Read them when you interact, see if you can feel em and REASON with the person. They might just be reading wrong, and sometimes, they just are. But it can also be your fault as well, and if it is, reason with them. You're town, so your intentions ARE townie for doing things. If they don't budge, there's nothing you can really do about it. Oh an also your stiffness is what causes you to do dumb things. Don't do dumb things.

Scumplay -

1. Manipulation: ★★★★☆

I am a manipulative ******* when it comes to being scum. I might not always be pulling all the strings, but I know I can work something into my favor. A serious strong-point for me as scum is that I don't have to worry about being right, so I don't feel pressured into being wrong. This makes it easier for me to push fiction as facts and cause mislynches because I don't have the pressure townies do to be right, I just have to make someone look worse than me. I believe I am not the best however, and players like EE are much better than me. Maybe I'll get there someday.

My opinion: * * * 1/2

You're good. Don't get it twisted. But you're not that good.

2. Presentation: ★★★★☆

My presentation is good, but that's because I only know myself so well. I feel there is a hole on my presentation and that's I tend to not get heated and I don't tend to push things so assertively as scum, but I've listened and I will be patching that up soon, so don't take that as a tell for too long.

My opinion: * * * 1/2

I think your presentation suffers because when you play as scum, you don't get offended when people think you're wrong since, like you said, you don't need to worry about being right or wrong. That actually comes off as weird, truth be told. Your connection to Nabe and your off looking play upon a reread in Luigis made me scum read you on Nabes flip, and me n marshy were gonna push both you AND AM simultaneously because you both fit the bill as scum to us. But we died so grats on that move lol.

3. Emulation: ★★★★★

As mentioned before, I know myself well. I know what people look in me to town-read me. I know what people want out of me. I know what I would do in a situation as town. It might be hard for someone to do the same, but for me it comes naturally. I never feel pressured as scum. I always feel relaxed, and maybe this is just recent. There have been times where I've flipped, but most of those are with a purpose to get people to town-read me. I pull out my Meta in situations that don't look favorable to me, because my Meta has become typical. This is probably why I emulate so well as scum, because people expect certain things out of me, and since I'm only concerned with how I look, I usually can appeal to what they're looking out of me. I feel I might be a bit big-headed when it comes to my bragging on things like this, but...

My opinion: * * * *

You look and play almost the same as town and scum. That's good. I've said it plenty but it's that emotional side of your town play that makes your overall play suffer, as it does here. You can't emulate that raw pissiness because you don't feel it. But you make it not a huge issue in your scum games, and if you eliminated that from your play you'd almost surely look identical.

4. Confidence: ★★★★★

A reason why I brag about these things is because I have confidence in my scum-play. There are some people who either don't try enough to be town, or try too hard to be town. I don't feel like that and I always come into my scum-games feeling like I have a lot to work with. It's so weird because compared to my townplay, I'm not nearly as confident. I've heard someone tell me that I play like town when I'm scum and I play like scum when I'm town. It's probably true.

My opinion: * * * *

Soup your confidence is good, but I think you're pretty arrogant about how good you think you are. Think more about the fact that you actually can be caught, cuz you leave paper trails behind.

5. Distancing/Bussing: ★★★☆☆

I think I distance well with my partners, but I feel sometimes that it's obvious. My distancing with Dabuz only worked well because he responded well in Luigi's Mansion. I think that if I don't have a good partner to carry out my plans then it will blow up in my face. I am not afraid to bus my partners if needed, but I also think that I shouldn't be so willing to just call them scum. They're my partners and it would be best if I didn't treat them like an obstacle or just dead weight. There are times when bussing comes into play and is great to get some town-cred, but I digress.

My opinion: * * 1/2

You gotta recognize when, as a townie, it'd make sense to scum read your partners. If they're playing townie and well, why force that? If they're playing noticeably scummy, why ignore that? As much as you need to work together, the thread is a totally different world than the QT.

6. Teamwork: ★★★½

This really depends on who I'm with on my team. I tend to try and tell my partner what I'm doing and how I'm going to approach things, but sometimes I make decisions on my own without prior notice. This is fine however, feeling like I focused on a plan instead of just doing what's best for me, I would be caught more often.

My opinion: Accurate

You're a good scum mate to play with. You know how to be bussed and you know how to play your own role. You just need read my analysis of #5 to bus them better.

7. Skepticism: ★★★½

Skepticism is how townies look at you, and how they feel about you. You could be presenting yourself well and doing townie things, but there could always be a person to oppose you and say that there's a hole in your play. This is a problem I feel will become an issue in later games, as I feel people won't be willing to town-read me as easily and be more cautious with me. Players like marshy work better with their skepticism because their play as town demands just as much. It's why he can get away with so much as scum, because nobody questions his actions and just puts it down as 'marshy being marshy'. I am not the same however.

My opinion: Accurate

Your self analysis was good stuff

I typed a lot. Nobody will read that besides some curious people, but I would be delighted to see what others think of themselves too. It's why I layed this out, and if people wanna agree or disagree with my perception of me, then feel free to do so.

How I see myself:

As Town

Transparency: * * * 1/2

I feel like my play style calls for people to think twice before calling me genuine, but after exposing my thoughts and reads I've generally found myself on town lists of most, if not, all townies. I don't have a problem laying myself out there in a manner which someone appreciates seeing it, and someone being able to understand me does a town read stem from. I used to be terrible at this lol, but every townie is simply trying to do the same thing as you, and now I understand that better.

Having Accurate Reads: * * * 1/2

I find myself really good at reading not-so-good players because I actually let myself feel them. Reading good players is tough though. I'm not afraid to admit that I can mistake intentions. But I've also enhanced my ability to accurately interpret intentions, and whether or not they're genuine. It can use work but ayy nobody is a 5 star reader IMHO. You can't have perfect reads.

Rhetoric: * * * *

I love leveling with players and arguing points with others. I keep myself very composed and usually can differentiate between what's worth it and what's not. When I argue, I don't look to be right, but I look for what's right.

Persuasion: * * * 1/2

If I don't feel strongly about something, I'm not great at swaying peoples feelings toward that conviction of mine. But when I do my genuine opinions come out and have the ability to make people vibe with them. I take mafia light hearted on purpose, but that DOESN'T mean I don't take it seriously.

Cooperation: * * * 1/2

If I don't feel strongly about something, I'm more willing to empathize with others and look from their point of view, and truth be told I don't mind at times letting a lynch happen that I wasn't crazy about, given the circumstances. I'm very patient. But when I do feel strongly about something, I find it hard that people don't see where I'm coming from and it sucks to give in even if for the moment. But I do.

Flexibility: * * *

I get that people want to try and read me and I get that my playstyle calls for people to not always read me accurately, but like shiz it sucks when they don't. I'll let people have their way with me, and hell I welcome that, but to me focusing on me when I'm town is a mistake that I don't wanna deal with fixing. Also, when players scum read me for trash reasons (or just scum or town read for trash reasons in general) I tend to shut them out and allow for them to be read by not trash playing players and going with offing em if the majority feels like they should or not if they feel like they shouldn't. Can be improved, but I'm certainly not inflexible.


As Scum:

Manipulation: * * *

I feel like when I need to, I manipulate well, but I don't count manipulation as a big part of my scum play. It helps, but I'd rather insert myself into the town picture rather than play puppeteer.

Or maybe that is manipulation? Lol who knows.

Presentation: * * * *

I feel that my style allows myself to present myself really well as scum. Not being calculated about how I speak in thread is key. You gotta flow the exact same river as how you do when you're town, and how do you do that? Naturally, of course! My town playstyle allows for myself to feel the same when I'm scum as when I'm town, which is a big aid.

Emulation: * * * *

I know myself really well. The only time I screw up interpreting myself is when I try too hard to be "silly ol' Gorf," and I only do that when I think too much about it.

Confidence: * * * *

Even if you screw up, you gotta tell yourself that you're playing it right and well cuz, if you're alive in game, well you ARE playing well, since that's literally all it takes to win as scum.

Distancing/Bussing: * * * 1/2

You gotta love bussing. Look at what I said to soup about bussing to get my approach to it. My only downside would be that, when distancing, I'd prefer to be the one that comes on top, and that's because when you think as town, nobody's confirmed to you. I don't know whether to give myself a higher rank but I feel that's most appropriate. This is another one of those situational categories though imo.

Teamwork: * * * 1/2

Everybody has a certain role on the scum team in my head, and if that means I gotta play scummily at a point to aid a scum mate and that route is better than the route of me staying alive, I'll do it. I have no problem taking one for the team, cuz honestly the QT is there to strategize. THAT'S where you talk genuinely to your mates. The thread is your appearance, your cloak. That's it.

Skepticism: * * * *

I feel I'm read the same as I am when I play town, and sometimes good townies will be able to identify the actual hole in my play well enough to carry out a lynch on me. It happens, but generally I feel good about how I'm read as scum.

Discuss.

Edit: I actually changed some of these while thinking about them, so it's updated too lol

 

[Raziek]

Reasoning would help?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Damn son I just typed up all dat soup critique on mobile, but I'll edit it in if my battery calls for it. I'll just save it and get to it later if my phone nearly dies.

 

[Gova]

I don't know how anyone can say they're good at persuasion when literally most you just insult anyone that doesn't agree with you.

edit: or cooperation

edit2: or flexibility

edit3: or transparency

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

thanks for the honest critique gorf ill give you one back once you write a bit more about it, i probably am a bit arrogant when it comes to my scumplay so yeh ill try and tone it down

@Potassium

I've been meaning to see how you see yourself in games and I've been meaning to critique you for a while. You remind me of myself in a lot of aspects and I see just a ton of potential waiting to be realized.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

well the whole point is to just help out each other and give an honest opinion on how people think they could improve or give them feedback on what they're good at

maybe i could make this into a thread, who knows

 

[Gova]

We don't really need another thread for this.

It's just gonna get abandoned like the other 3.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

would u like me to replace the stars with instead

 

[Gova]

If you want to.

 

[Overswarm]

if you want to improve, start collecting data.

Have every mod of every game force each player to put a reads list of "Non-town" and "Town" into a PM with their Night Actions (or lack thereof) before the next phase can begin.

Rate each player's success rate as a %. N1, 12 players remain, 91.6% success means you got all but one alignment correct.

Compile the success rate on N1, N2, N3, etc. for each player and then have "average success rate" for each phases to determine how good you are at determining alignment and how much you improve as time goes on.

After a few months of this, you'll be able to determine realistically whose reads improve the most, who suffers with larger numbers, who is always wrong, who is always right, etc., etc. and you can then just read their games and emulate their play.

But no one will do this because they prefer arbitrary star ratings because actual measurable success is scary.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Few people deserve more than 3 stars @ rhetoric, persuation and cooperation.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

if you want to improve, start collecting data.

Have every mod of every game force each player to put a reads list of "Non-town" and "Town" into a PM with their Night Actions (or lack thereof) before the next phase can begin.

Rate each player's success rate as a %. N1, 12 players remain, 91.6% success means you got all but one alignment correct.

Compile the success rate on N1, N2, N3, etc. for each player and then have "average success rate" for each phases to determine how good you are at determining alignment and how much you improve as time goes on.

After a few months of this, you'll be able to determine realistically whose reads improve the most, who suffers with larger numbers, who is always wrong, who is always right, etc., etc. and you can then just read their games and emulate their play.

But no one will do this because they prefer arbitrary star ratings because actual measurable success is scary.

This is actually really good and I would love to see it more in games. I'll try and implement it in mine.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I fail to see what's so good about it. Its obvious advantage is that it's factual but it only covers a fraction of a player's performance and doesn't necessarily reflect the "quality" of ones play.

This whole rating thing is quite silly in general though imo.

 

[Make it Rain!]

I've been meaning to see how you see yourself in games and I've been meaning to critique you for a while. You remind me of myself in a lot of aspects and I see just a ton of potential waiting to be realized.

does anyone see this ****
i mean
anyone?

 

[Overswarm]

I fail to see what's so good about it. Its obvious advantage is that it's factual but it only covers a fraction of a player's performance and doesn't necessarily reflect the "quality" of ones play.

This whole rating thing is quite silly in general though imo.

See, it's this vague stuff that people love to cling to. "Well, I didn't get my reads right but when I DO, hoo boy town'll follow me" and whatnot.


Mafia is won by lynching scum. The first task to find scum. If you have a higher success rate at finding scum, you have essentially done 50% of the work. If EVERYONE can do that, the game is done.

I can convince people to do anything, but that just means my scum game is that much stronger than my town's because convincing people, while half the game, is only truly important if you get the "reading alignment" right.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

does anyone see this ****
i mean
anyone?

???????

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I feel like people's perspective is really helpful in this medium. Players can use help to see disadvantages in their play, but if you're not interested simply don't participate. And no it doesn't need another thread lol.

Also @Gheb's snide 3 star remark: I don't believe that's true. Overall 2 1/2 stars is what I feel is totally average in any given trait, and being average at rhetoric doesn't mean that you win half the time lose half the time, but that your arguments lead somewhere half the time and don't half the time. Oh, and average < aight < cool < good and so on, just to give you an idea of where I, personally, am coming from.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Damn I accidentally tagged that ******.

 

[Jdietz43]

I liek mafias

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also @Gheb's snide 3 star remark: I don't believe that's true. Overall 2 1/2 stars is what I feel is totally average in any given trait, and being average at rhetoric doesn't mean that you win half the time lose half the time, but that your arguments lead somewhere half the time and don't half the time.

There's quite a bunch of people in dGames who struggle at posting a coherent, meaningful sentence. There's even less people who are capable of writing a coherent, meaningful post. And don't even get me started on how low the amount of people is who are actually capable of laying out their thought process in clearly understandable words or of those that can actually produce a convincing argument. Do you think it's coincidence that dGames relies so heavily on meta in order to "read" players? You're way wrong if you think so.

 

[Overswarm]

Gheb you're in the same boat unless you've improved since the last game I saw you in =P

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm gonna think about what OS said and I like that idea but I'm gonna do the star thing anyways.

☆★½

Townplay -

1. Transparency: ★★★★★

I'm rarely lynched and people put me in the town category all the time, then again when do I roll scum? As town I'm almost never read as scum unless something huge happens when I get ****ed up some how from play or night actions. I think it's my ****ty gambits I discarded is why I am playing better than I used to along with the fact I make my intent very clear when I work on reading players. No one really reads me as scum anymore, I just end up in lylo and do whatever I do there, usually related to the #2 below. Also doesn't help my mafia poker face is ****.

2. Having Accurate Reads: ★☆☆☆☆

Not even close. It's rare my reads are spot on, more often than not my reads are all backwards and on the wrong people. I have noticed a lot of this is me reading people as scum, either justifiable but wrong. Or I read something as anti-town as scummy. Then the mafia who I put town reads on when their intent I get all wrong. I think someone is being honest and sincere but in reality they are back stabbing me and using me to push mislynches. This is why I should never lead town.

3. Rhetoric: ★★☆☆☆

People following what I say is pretty rare if that. I may lay out why I think someone is scum but usually someone beats me to the punch on why someone is scum first. Usually I spend a lot of the time trying to feel out the player list til later when I can get a solid read on everyone. This is harder for me more so since due to my #2 I tend to not be able to follow up on these and other people have less reason to trust my reads. Rightfully so. I need more confidence here when I am right and or think I am, but being right is a first.

4. Foresight: ★★★☆☆

While my reads aren't great, knowing an order to lynch is defiantly something I can see a bit better. I can figure out who needs to be lynch and why from play and connections better than I used to. I am still not against an inactive lynch but when those players are a serious problem I will push for an inactive lynch. I can figure out the order when I need to find the correct direction.

5. Persuasion: ★★☆☆☆

I'm always the quiet voice irl and in game. People who met me at APEX and know my mafia play know I can be quiet. I might be putting out what I think but I do not try and get people to follow me and sheep me. I usually try and figure out who I should listen to or not based on what they are stating in thread along with my own reads and then figure out who is the person I should be trusting and pushing along with my own reads. I'm a Donatello not a Leonardo. I'm the Black Ranger, not the Red Ranger. I'm Sailor Jupiter not Sailor Moon. etc. You get my point. I am there to convince people that a direction is right and why, but I am not the one who pushing pure persuasion on the matter.

6. Cooperation: ★★☆☆☆

I'm bullheaded and thickheaded at times while at others working with people when I need to. The issue is I tend to do the former over the latter a lot more when I feel like I am right on something. Not so much anymore since my reads have been off as of late and my convindence went down into the crapper. I'm hard to be cooperative with if I am being thick headed which most of the time, I am thick headed.

7. Flexibility: ★★☆☆☆

I can be flexible when the situation calls for me to change based on what people are doing or how the set-up is playing out. I do change what I do game to game based on really whatever I feel like rather than what others demand of me. I try to be open to why people scum read me as town and I do see why they do most of the time, it's legitimate if people are actually reading me as scum which is once in a blue moon. I try to work on being more open to how people play and treat me and it's working so far, its just finding the last steps to get this into reading people better is all that is needed. In terms of reading other people when they change, eh it's a mixed bag still and more so on the bad side.

Scumplay -

1. Manipulation: ★★☆☆☆

I don't really push manipulation that much, I just try to look for things people are doing that are scummy and push it. But usually it is ending up with a bad push someone else makes and going with it as people lynch in circles and not finding me when I am scum. But normally I do not push for a lynch on my own. It's hard for me to do this at times as well when I think, "I know this is a lie" and I can't really justify it as easily.

2. Presentation: ★★★☆☆

I can present myself as making sure people think I am giving out my own thoughts, but at times people second guess why I am doing what I am doing. I need to make my presentation better since while I can make myself look like town Ruy, I can't really make people think well of me as town as is.

3. Emulation: ★★★★☆

I think I got this down, think bullheaded, make my intentions known as much as I can speak them but keep at it with making my play seem fluid. The issue sometimes is I go too far when I try to go for this kind of thing. I stick to this when I can though it shows from FF8 I do tend to go too far to look like myself.

4. Confidence: ★☆☆☆☆

I hate rolling scum, I really do. I'd rather roll indy or if I am mafia give me traitor. Someone i going to catch me at some point for legitimate reasons then they will go for it and I can't explain it away. Also **** Ryker and Nabe if they are town in the game I die to them lynching me/vigging me 85% of the time.

5. Distancing/Bussing: ★★★★★

I bus, hard. I try and keep myself as far away from my mates as possible and will lynch them into next light-year if they play that bad. I make sure I try to not leave obvious trails to my mates and work on ensuring when I die there is no clear paper trail or if there is one, it's not important. When I am teamed with my mates, I will communicate but I try to make sure I limit communication when possible because I need to act like I am on my own as much as I can.

6. Teamwork: ★★★★½

While I do limit communication, I still make sure I communicate and do it when it is needed. I make sure to work with my team as much as possible unless it is clear I need to take out the bus when someone royally screws up. I work with my team and make sure to follow a gameplan, but I do it while trying to limit how much as talk with one each other.

7. Skepticism: ★★★☆☆

Most people will read me the same when I act the same, but then there are a few players who call my play out for what it is and catch me on it alone. They see what I am doing and can view it as exactly what I was planning on doing, or I trick it like ff8 where people misread what I was doing. Basically I think I can make people keep a town read on me, but there are players who can see through what I am doing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You must've forgotten that I take you serious only as a host, not as a judge of mafia performances or rhetorics.

 

[Overswarm]

You must've forgotten that I'm results-oriented, not intent-oriented, so personal thoughts and evaluations mean little to me =B

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

There's quite a bunch of people in dGames who struggle at posting a coherent, meaningful sentence. There's even less people who are capable of writing a coherent, meaningful post. And don't even get me started on how low the amount of people is who are actually capable of laying out their thought process in clearly understandable words or of those that can actually produce a convincing argument. Do you think it's coincidence that dGames relies so heavily on meta in order to "read" players? You're way wrong if you think so.

Point taken.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

does anyone see this ****
i mean
anyone?

Yo dawg, I've been waiting for you to self-evaluate yourself and I've been meaning to critique you on that evaluation since you joined. You remind me of me before I fully became me and I see a lot of potential in you because I see the me that grew into me inside you.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Is it possible for me to get negative stars on cooperation? Tunneling all day every day.

 

[Jdietz43]

Rhetoric - Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Wha does that even ****in mean