Dexter Mafia ~ ...?

[~ Gheb ~]

I agree with vVv ChiboSempai

 

[Asdioh]

I'm not gonna justify this game's setup, but after thinking about it I realized a worst/best case scenario in Pizza Mafia could have had town winning on N1. With 2 mafia goons, an indy lover pair, and a town vig, we could have lynched mafia D1, vigged mafia N1, and the mafia could have killed the lovers on N1 for Town's win.

That's a far less likely scenario than what happened here though.

 

[CT Chia]

Worst case scenarios in all games are awful, that's why it's called worst case scenario lol

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No Chibo, that's just flat-out not true.

 

[CT Chia]

it's just that the worst case scenario for this game was somewhat easier to get than normal :/

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It was also devastating to an unacceptable extent.

 

[Asdioh]

that's because scum was in charge

Imagine if we had lynched Glyph on D1. They probably would have just recruited Red Ruy then... and if the NKs happened the same way they did, and we lynched, say, Gheb on D2, then mafia would have won anyway, despite town lynching scum D1 and D2.

 

[X1-12]

So much wrong in this thread...

 

[CT Chia]

Yes it was still bad, but there were connections with Glyph that would lead to smarter Day 2 actions
And imagine if Gheb had not been roleblocked Night 2. It would have been near impossible for scum to win.
Or imagine if Rajam killed Glyph night 1, it would have stopped mafia's kill from happening since they sent Glyph
Or if town set out to lynch Glyph day 1 and he was veto'd then NK'd, even better. With how scummy he was acting this was how it naturally should have played out imo.
Rajam had his own way of playing his role, and it did work, he won, but it wasn't the most pro town way of doing it.
Gheb could have also not shot at night unless he was completely sure of shooting scum. Considering that there was a good chance we would be turned into a VT, he was forced to play Pro Town

There are so many things that could have prevented the game from ending so early

For the millionth time, did it turn out that the set up was imbalanced to scum? Yes, somewhat. Not every game is 100% perfect and balanced.
But you guys also have to admit that scum played perfectly and town played far from it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i also protected gheb

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Good boy

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yes it was still bad, but there were connections with Glyph that would lead to smarter Day 2 actions
And imagine if Gheb had not been roleblocked Night 2. It would have been near impossible for scum to win.

Which entirely relied on hitting one specific scum.

Which also Mafia can get reads on people to figure out who they are.

 

[Radical Fiction]

that's because scum was in charge

Imagine if we had lynched Glyph on D1. They probably would have just recruited Red Ruy then... and if the NKs happened the same way they did, and we lynched, say, Gheb on D2, then mafia would have won anyway, despite town lynching scum D1 and D2.

They would even have a cop to claim a guilty.

There are so many things that could have prevented the game from ending so early

For the millionth time, did it turn out that the set up was imbalanced to scum? Yes, somewhat. Not every game is 100% perfect and balanced.
But you guys also have to admit that scum played perfectly and town played far from it.

It doesn't matter that there's a million things that could've happened. There was a scenario where we could literally lynch scum on Day 2 and not win the game. Meaning it was effectively LyLo on Day 1.

No, town did not play perfectly. THEY ****ING HAD TO THOUGH! That's the problem. Town has room for error. They are the uninformed MAJORITY and they had that by one number. It was not effectively 11:5, it was effectively 9:2:5(+1). It's hella easy for scum to play a perfect game for two phases. If they **** up before phase three, it's their own damn fault. Town is supposed to be able to play completely *** terrible until Day 3 and then, with perfect play, still win. They shouldn't be forced to play perfectly on Day 1 without a specific open set-up designed around that mechanic.

 

[CT Chia]

The indies in this game were essentially townies with different win conditions
i even said this in their role pms
they counted towards the town total, unlike indies in every other game

if and when town got the edge on scum, it hurt them bad. you saw how much gheb's single kill would swing the game. scum forced you to lynch a certain person. TONS of people were suspecting tblock and starting to suspect J and stuff. scum however influenced your lynch with the counterclaim

 

[Radical Fiction]

The indies in this game were essentially townies with different win conditions
i even said this in their role pms
they counted towards the town total, unlike indies in every other game

if and when town got the edge on scum, it hurt them bad. you saw how much gheb's single kill would swing the game. scum forced you to lynch a certain person. TONS of people were suspecting tblock and starting to suspect J and stuff. scum however influenced your lynch with the counterclaim

Townies with different win cons are called independent for a reason.

Hell, Rajam had literally no reason not to simply aim to end the game before he had to kill a scum. Zero. After the night one fiasco and the day 2 recruiter reveal, he had every reason to harm town rather than help it.

Indies in every other game still count toward making sure scum don't win. Scum can't control majority with anyone left operating against their win con.

The game should not HAVE that much swing. There's a reason that the amount of swing is a huge factor when balancing. You want to limit it to avoid situations like this.

I stand by my previous comment. The next time you host, try something more tame.

 

[CT Chia]

Rajam could have continued to harm town after that, but he didn't lol
Remember that he killed scum Night 2?

And I designed it to have that swing factor. Exceptional gameplay was strongly rewarded, it's the style I was aiming for.
Saying no game should have that much swing is an opinion.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

It's not an opinion when a game can be over by D2.

That's not ****in' opinion, that's ****in' fact that a game is broken.

 

[Radical Fiction]

Yeah, well your "opinion" is in the vast minority and you forced on players without them having any idea it was going to be something of the sort. If it's not obvious, people weren't satisfied. I'm not trying to attack you. I think you're a great person outside of RE4, but I don't want this to happen again.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Chibo, your game relies on people getting their night actions correct for town to win, that's not right.

Scum could screw up theirs and still have plenty of chance to win, Town almost couldn't mess up at all.

 

[CT Chia]

It's not an opinion when a game can be over by D2.

That's not ****in' opinion, that's ****in' fact that a game is broken.

WL do yourself a favor and only join games with basic setups and basic everything since that's the only way you think games should be ran

 

[Dooms]

Your setup was just broken Chibo. There's a difference between good, balanced setups and basic setups. Yours just doesn't fall into either.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Chibo, there's a difference between "Unique setups", and "Ridiculously Imbalanced"

Until you can understand the difference between those, don't try hosting one of the former.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I was about to come say something but Joey and DH got it covered.

 

[CT Chia]

I'm not talking about imbalanced, I'm talking about how WL thinks no game should ever end before Day 2 or people saying games shouldnt be swingy

 

[Dooms]

End before Day 2.

That has to be the... never mind.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

There are setups that can be swingy. However, there are different levels of swinginess

You put how swingy the setup was pretty darn well: "One action and the entire fate of the faction completely changes"

Explain to me how that is in any way balanced.

Joey summed up my thoughts on the D2 thing.

 

[CT Chia]

End as early as is what I meant

You put how swingy the setup was pretty darn well: "One action and the entire fate of the faction completely changes"

Explain to me how that is in any way balanced.

If it can happen to both factions...
and it's rewarding correct choices
And no one single decision completely destroyed a faction, just really hurt them

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

ending a game D2 is like getting married and then cheating on your wife 2 days later.

 

[CT Chia]

9 player game
2 scum
what if town lynches both of them on day 1 then day 2?
is that imbalanced? lol no

the end time of a game means nothing

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That is imbalanced into town's favor.

 

[Dooms]

Wait this game was imbalanced into town's favor?

:O

 

[T-block]

No it's not.

Pokemon Mafia was 2 scum:7 town and scum swept.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

-dead- @ soup

That is imbalanced into town's favor.

Nah

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'm not talking about imbalanced, I'm talking about how WL thinks no game should ever end before Day 2 or people saying games shouldnt be swingy

I'd be ****in' okay with you if you just said your game was an imbalanced piece of **** but you can't even bring yourself to say that.

I never said games shouldn't be swingy but 16 man games should never end on D2. 7 man games? Sure. 13 man games? If town has a vig and is absolutely perfect on their reads. 16 man games? No way. No way should scum win by Day 2. That's a clear sign of imbalance.

I don't mind games that swing based on momentum but there has to be a chance for that to happen and it was way too easy for scum to walk away with this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Misread, thought he said, 9 town, 2 scum.

 

[Radical Fiction]

I'm not talking about imbalanced, I'm talking about how WL thinks no game should ever end before Day 2 or people saying games shouldnt be swingy

>implying games should ever end before day 2

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

but your wife loves you, chibo, you should be good to her.

seriously though, **** don't cut it for forum mafia, also, i disagree on imbalanced, i would say overbalanced, everyone had too much power and there was too many options for this to swing, there needs to be a fair and balanced wincon for everyone.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

the end time of a game means nothing

Should I make a game where scum can win on Day 1?

Chibo it does mean something no one is happy with the ending, at least consider that there are multiple people not happy with how this ended, and they are by far a majority by a large margin.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

DO IT ******.jpg

 

[CT Chia]

Should I make a game where scum can win on Day 1?

Town could win this game after one full day