Demon Lord Ghirahim's Fabulous Horde of Stunning Features! CONFIRMED ASSIST TROPHY APPEARANCE!

[Oasis_S]

I saw three rainbows yesterday.

 

[Ghirahilda]

I saw three rainbows yesterday.

 

[Oasis_S]

That's only two. Are you dumb.

 

[Deleted member]

I saw three rainbows yesterday.

I am so jealous. The most I've seen are two rainbows.

 

[Ghirahilda]

That's only two. Are you dumb.

There is rainbow dash, a rainbow and ghirahim's heart (filled with rainbows), so it's more than 3

 

[Mypantisgone]

>sees rainbows
>thinks Ghirahim

 

[SmashChu]

There is rainbow dash, a rainbow and ghirahim's heart (filled with rainbows), so it's more than 3

Your trying to hard. Not Strong enough.

But yeah, that Ghirahim guy is pretty cool. Always seems like I'm gonna spell his name wrong.

 

[Mypantisgone]

Now that I think about it,once I was walking around a rainy day,and I saw 3 or 4 rainbows,not at the same place though.


And to answer my own question *foreveralone* I think Ghirahim will balance his use of sword and magic.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Your trying to hard. Not Strong enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8nw6VPeKsc

 

[victinivcreate1]

yo ghirahim should be a little faster, in skyward sword, in he cutscene where he fought impoa, he rushed.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

He was only fast when he was attacking, but slow as an iceberg otherwise, which I tried to reflect in the set I made.

 

[SmashChu]

He was only fast when he was attacking, but slow as an iceberg otherwise, which I tried to reflect in the set I made.

So good attack speed, not great running speed?

 

[Ghirahilda]

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Yep, that is the way I imagine it at least.

 

[Ember Reaper]

I'm all for supporting the fabulous Demon Lord Ghirahim!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

He was only fast when he was attacking, but slow as an iceberg otherwise, which I tried to reflect in the set I made.

I actually think he would be quick. I always thought he was being slow to mess with you and the sword in the game. But he has that one attack where he rushed at you, which shows he was speed.

I would hope that if included, they would make Ghirahim fast so that he is different from Ganondorf, (being the second villain) and not have two slow villains

 

[xpnc]

http://youtu.be/KmnqUDI__Cw?t=11s

This is more or less I feel about the situation

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I actually think he would be quick. I always thought he was being slow to mess with you and the sword in the game. But he has that one attack where he rushed at you, which shows he was speed.

I would hope that if included, they would make Ghirahim fast so that he is different from Ganondorf, (being the second villain) and not have two slow villains

Well, you're right, but why would he behave out of character in Smash Brothers? I would think he needs to bring his personality to the table if he were to play, in fact, that is largely the appeal for him being in. Also, the attack where he rushes IS in the move set that I proposed in the original post, and in the description I mentioned that it could be used purely for traveling longer distances faster.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well, you're right, but why would he behave out of character in Smash Brothers? I would think he needs to bring his personality to the table if he were to play, in fact, that is largely the appeal for him being in. Also, the attack where he rushes IS in the move set that I proposed in the original post, and in the description I mentioned that it could be used purely for traveling longer distances faster.

Hmmm...that makes sense. That attack could be similar to Ike's side b or something. I like it. It would be pretty awesome if the animation for simply walking is Ghirahim with his hand up to counter like in the fights.

I still think his dash should be fast, but not ridiculous. Maybe slightly slower than Marth?

 

[victinivcreate1]

Hmmm...that makes sense. That attack could be similar to Ike's side b or something. I like it. It would be pretty awesome if the animation for simply walking is Ghirahim with his hand up to counter like in the fights.

I still think his dash should be fast, but not ridiculous. Maybe slightly slower than Marth?

Maybe as fast a marth is an easy marth counter. i say about as fast as CAPTAIN FALCON! (just kiddin bout that last part, how bout slightly faster than yoshi?)

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Updating the OP and posting here some information from the Rate and Discuss Their Chances thread. Of course, this is pretty old, and I wasn't even around to participate in it and probably raise the numbers he got, but here they are to those who haven't seen them:

24. Ghirahim (2.23 in likelihood, 2.77 in want)

These numbers are of course out of 5, both in want and likelihood. The twenty-four is the position he is in on the list as of this post, meaning twenty-three other newcomers are rated to be more likely. Does the placements in both want and likelihood surprise you, or are they around what you'd expect for our fabulous Ghirahim? It is hard for me to say personally, I can see how he got what he got, but I could also see it being just above 3 at least in want. However slight the difference, it does show that people at least like the idea more than they think it is likely.

 

[N3ON]

I think that score is fair, but around SS's launch he would've got much higher results, though those scores would've been inaccurate, at least these seem plausible. However, I think the further we get from SS the lower people will rate his chances, even if he does play an important role in the entire Zelda series. Unless he somehow makes another appearance of course.

I don't even remember what scores I gave him though, his day was such a long time ago. I think I gave him a higher want score (which is ofc subjective) but I gave him around that likelihood IIRC.

 

[jigglover]

I had a look through rate their chances and found Ghirahim's day (page 90) I gave him a 4 in likelihood and a 5 in want. Personally it's decread to a 3.66 in likelihood and a 4.59 in want now but oh well. By the way N3on, I found yours!

Want: 3.5
He's not among my most wanted characters, and he's not even my most wanted Zelda character, but he'd be interesting in Smash, and I'm definitely not against his inclusion, though I'm not advocating for it either.

Likelihood: 2
I think people are overestimating his chances. Sure, he's popular now, and relevant now, but in the past that has proven not to merit inclusion in Smash, at least for the Zelda series, and I don't see it changing. He (as far as we know) is a one-shot character, who while a good character, will most likely be relegated to his one an only role. Sure, there is a chance the precedent could change, but I very much doubt it will over Ghirahim. Honestly, there are characters more important to the series that do have some popularity, and I'm just speculation, but I think Sakurai values that more with a series like Zelda over temporary already-fading popularity. I wouldn't be surprised if he was included, but I think the chances are against him.

 

[Frostwraith]

I had a look through rate their chances and found Ghirahim's day (page 90) I gave him a 4 in likelihood and a 5 in want. Personally it's decread to a 3.66 in likelihood and a 4.59 in want now but oh well. By the way N3on, I found yours!

Want: 3.5
He's not among my most wanted characters, and he's not even my most wanted Zelda character, but he'd be interesting in Smash, and I'm definitely not against his inclusion, though I'm not advocating for it either.

Likelihood: 2
I think people are overestimating his chances. Sure, he's popular now, and relevant now, but in the past that has proven not to merit inclusion in Smash, at least for the Zelda series, and I don't see it changing. He (as far as we know) is a one-shot character, who while a good character, will most likely be relegated to his one an only role. Sure, there is a chance the precedent could change, but I very much doubt it will over Ghirahim. Honestly, there are characters more important to the series that do have some popularity, and I'm just speculation, but I think Sakurai values that more with a series like Zelda over temporary already-fading popularity. I wouldn't be surprised if he was included, but I think the chances are against him.

well, Sheik appeared in Melee anyway. sure, we're talking about Zelda's alter ego, but Sakurai could've just made her an original down special instead of transforming her. and now, Sheik is part of Brawl's roster as well and will likely be in SSB4.

Ghirahim is a stand alone character, much like other Zelda villains, such as Vaati or Zant. but, it wouldn't be necessarily bad to include a lesser known character: they've done it with Marth and Roy in Melee, as well as the Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch. not to mention Ness and Lucas. Europe never had any EarthBound game released and the US only had Ness's game.

Besides, I really would like more villains appearing in Smash as playable characters, this is my main reason for supporting characters like K. Rool, the Black Knight and Ghirahim.

 

[SmashShadow]

Bottom line is that ghirahim needs to be reoccurring before getting in Smash. This is especially true in the context of the Zelda series where we get a new villain almost every game. I'm sure this will be the case with the next Zelda game too and people will be ready to raise hell for that character too. I have no problem with villains like Skull kid and Vaati cause they actually do reoccur throughout the series. But Ghirahim has yet to prove he's an "All Star". When he appears again, then I will support him but until then he gets a no from me.

 

[Opossum]

Bottom line is that ghirahim needs to be reoccurring before getting in Smash. This is especially true in the context of the Zelda series where we get a new villain almost every game. I'm sure this will be the case with the next Zelda game too and people will be ready to raise hell for that character too. I have no problem with villains like Skull kid and Vaati cause they actually do reoccur throughout the series. But Ghirahim has yet to prove he's an "All Star". When he appears again, then I will support him but until then he gets a no from me.

Really? That's news to me. I guess Sheik wasn't in Melee...oh wait.


Not to mention he's the driving force behind Skyward Sword, and by extension, the entire series.

Appearances were never any of Sakurai's criteria.

 

[SmashShadow]

Really? That's news to me. I guess Sheik wasn't in Melee...oh wait.


Not to mention he's the driving force behind Skyward Sword, and by extension, the entire series.

Appearances were never any of Sakurai's criteria.

Shiek=Zelda
Zelda= Reoccurring

While the transformation itself isn't reoccurring, Zelda is. The fact that Sheik is apart of Zelda's moveset instead of being a completely separate character makes up for the fact she was only Sheik in that game as she is tied to Zelda. Also, you have to consider that most of her moveset was based off of OoT anyways.

While he may be the driving force to some key events in Zelda he also(at this point) has the potential to never be heard from again in Zelda's on-going franchise.

Considering the fact that all characters who weren't tag on characters(Sheik, ZSS) from brawl had been in more than 1 game (excluding retros for obvious reasons) I can only infer. And no, I'm not counting Ness & Lucas as their series was only 3 games long with each having a different protagonist.

 

[jigglover]

At the time of smash 64, Pikachu had only one game.
At the time of smash 64, Ness had only one game in an un-finished series at the time.
At the time of melee, Ice climbers had only one game in a series that could get more.

I don't think that having to be recurring is an issue. Also, it's recurring, not reocurring. Miss out the o.

 

[SmashShadow]

At the time of smash 64, Pikachu had only one game.
At the time of smash 64, Ness had only one game in an un-finished series at the time.
At the time of melee, Ice climbers had only one game in a series that could get more.

I don't think that having to be recurring is an issue. Also, it's recurring, not reocurring. Miss out the o.

Did you not read anything I said in the previous post. You listed 2 characters I already covered. Secondly Pikachu had multiple games by that time.

List:
Blue/Red/Yellow/Green
Hey You Pikachu(N64)
Pokemon Trading Card Game

edit: Also reoccur is a word Google Chrome's spell check recognizes.

 

[jigglover]

Did you not read anything I said in the previous post. You listed 2 characters I already covered. Secondly Pikachu had multiple games by that time.

List:
Blue/Red/Yellow/Green
Hey You Pikachu(N64)
Pokemon Trading Card Game

edit: Also reoccur is a word Google Chrome's spell check recognizes.

It also recognises recurring imo. Anyway, you can't just discount retros, that doesn't make sense, a character is a character is a character.
I directly countered your argument about Ness, and I'm quite shocked you didn't notice. Did you even read the words after Ness and Ice climbers? At the time of smash 64, mother was far from finished, with only one game, of which Ness was in, this made Ness a one-shot character at the time, and the series could easily have been never-ending back then (it would take much of the series' value though). How many games did Samus have at the time out of interest? Because the series was relatively new in smash 64.

 

[N3ON]

It also recognises recurring imo. Anyway, you can't just discount retros, that doesn't make sense, a character is a character is a character.
I directly countered your argument about Ness, and I'm quite shocked you didn't notice. Did you even read the words after Ness and Ice climbers? At the time of smash 64, mother was far from finished, with only one game, of which Ness was in, this made Ness a one-shot character at the time, and the series could easily have been never-ending back then (it would take much of the series' value though). How many games did Samus have at the time out of interest? Because the series was relatively new in smash 64.

You don't have to be reoccurring to be eligible, true, but it definitely helps if you are. Ness might've only appeared in one of the two Mother/Earthbound games (there were two) prior to Smash 64, but was the representative of his entire series (which was very popular in Japan), even if he hadn't appeared in all his games. Because the games have changing and (almost) entirely different casts each time, the one-shot protagonists were the best way to represent that series. This is unlike Zelda, as each of those games have a usual static main cast with minor changes each time, and many many one-time characters, who while important to one game have very little prominence in the series overall, unlike someone like Ness to his series. One-shot characters have much better chances in series with constantly changing casts like Mother than ones with a generally static (for the most part) main cast, like Zelda, but as the majority of series in Smash are more like Zelda cast-wise than Mother, being reoccurring is usually fairly important.

Also, retros are absolutely in a different category than other characters. Sakurai specifically seeks them out and has defined spots on his roster dedicated to them, even before he's decided which retro character it will be. Also, their requirements for inclusion are much different than other characters. There's very very little chance of a character from a one-game non-retro series getting in (except Shulk), but retro character with one game are usually valid candidates, because their conditions for inclusion are different.

Samus had three games before Smash 64, and while dormant around 64's time, was still one of the more popular Nintendo series. And Metroid was definitely not "new" around 64, the first game was in 1986, thirteen years before Smash 64, and the series is older than every series except for Mario, DK, and Zelda. Perhaps you should do more research on series like Pokemon/Mother/Metroid before claiming facts about them that are untrue.

 

[Opossum]

Shiek=Zelda
Zelda= Reoccurring

While the transformation itself isn't reoccurring, Zelda is. The fact that Sheik is apart of Zelda's moveset instead of being a completely separate character makes up for the fact she was only Sheik in that game as she is tied to Zelda. Also, you have to consider that most of her moveset was based off of OoT anyways.

While he may be the driving force to some key events in Zelda he also(at this point) has the potential to never be heard from again in Zelda's on-going franchise.

Considering the fact that all characters who weren't tag on characters(Sheik, ZSS) from brawl had been in more than 1 game (excluding retros for obvious reasons) I can only infer. And no, I'm not counting Ness & Lucas as their series was only 3 games long with each having a different protagonist.

So all of the characters in Smash had multiple appearances except for the ones that didn't, so because Ghirahim is a one shot, he can't get in? Look at that logic again...


The Sheik thing was more meant for humor than anything, by the way...


Ghirahim shouldn't be judged by the amount of games, but by the character himself. A uniquely combative-oriented character with an extremely important role in the overall series. He has popularity to boot. Finally, one of the Zelda higher ups wanted him to be remembered (can't remember who at the moment), so what better way than to be put into Smash?

 

[jigglover]

Also, Vaati and Impa are the only characters I can think of right now in the Zelda series that isn't a one-shot... In smash 16 or whatever every farnchise has at least 8 characters, and LoZ is stuck with 6 because the series keeps on introducing one-shots every game. Am I right on this?

 

[SmashShadow]

So all of the characters in Smash had multiple appearances except for the ones that didn't, so because Ghirahim is a one shot, he can't get in? Look at that logic again...


The Sheik thing was more meant for humor than anything, by the way...


Ghirahim shouldn't be judged by the amount of games, but by the character himself. A uniquely combative-oriented character with an extremely important role in the overall series. He has popularity to boot. Finally, one of the Zelda higher ups wanted him to be remembered (can't remember who at the moment), so what better way than to be put into Smash?

N3ON already explained those circumstances. Those characters were either tag on(versions of a character already in Smash), retro or came from a series of changing protagonist. Neither of these apply to Ghirahim.

Oh my bad...

His popularity, while legit is helped by the fact that he's recent. Right now he's in the same status as Zant was for TP. He wasn't put in either. But I know they're slightly different cases. One thing they do have in common is they are flavor of the month characters and not "All Stars". Right now they're in a position to never show up again. If they did I'd think there would be no doubt we'd see them. This is where I think the next Zelda game comes into play. If Ghirahim is not in the next new Zelda game regardless of if it comes out before or after Smash4 I don't think he'll get in. I'm just going by Smash History and have nothing personal against the character.

@Jigglover: Technically Tingle and Skull Kid are too...but I really hope they don't put in Tingle cause almost nobody likes him. Although I liked him as an assist trophy

 

[jigglover]

Not a particular Skull kid.
Ah yes, I forgot about Tingle! You can see it now, Sakurai in the auditions room seeing the different smash wannabes...
Oh, I'm sorry Ghirahim, the bottom line is, is that you've only had one game!
Oh, Tingle, of course your in! Big recurring character, an AT in brawl, and lots of games under your belt! Welcome to smash!

 

[Holder of the Heel]

We could discuss the semantics and measure the values of different things all we want, the only thing we'll be is turning this into something tantamount to emotivism in moral philosophy. In other words, we'd just be debating our feelings, and everything translates to, "I feel this way". That isn't much of a productive or realistic way to view this. There are two things to recognize here. One, Sakurai has given us character criteria, and none of it has to do with "history", and despite what anyone can say, Ghirahim fits the mold well on all four levels more or less. And two, Sakurai kind of does as he pleases, we can try to systemize the guy and everyone working on it, but it's not going to be particularly accurate. Potentially even more so because he knows we are all here thinking we know more or less what the roster is going to be like and who should be in.

Point is is that these things may or may not affect his chances at all, because practically speaking, we have no legitimate reason to make a stance on it.

 

[W1nedown]

Is this the last thread of this post?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is this the last thread of this post?

I'll give you three guesses.

 

[W1nedown]

LOL at last I can express my feelings towards ghirahim and whhy he should be in this game! point being is that ghirahim is evil! I dont kno much about the loz series but i do know thAT smash needs more villians and he is as "Holder says" the latest atangonist in the LOZ series!!! Now aslong as hes got that riding for him I think theres a good chance of him being in this game! I f theeres onr good way of creating a great story and balancing out the game is too add more villians! Sure hes a great character to add, but to be honest most ppl covered why he shouldn't be in the game.......Buthes still sooo f***ing coooool.

 

[Eagle]

Wouldn't Demise be the latest antagonist in the LoZ series?