Demon Lord Ghirahim's Fabulous Horde of Stunning Features! CONFIRMED ASSIST TROPHY APPEARANCE!

[Diddy Kong]

Or: Impa. Cause they are both from the same game y'know?

 

[Deleted member]

Except that Impa was not on Ghirahim's level of popularity (and still isn't).

Remember, the key argument here is popularity.

 

[SmashChu]

I don't doubt that SS will likely represent the majority of the Zelda content in SSB4 (if TP and Brawl are anything to go by - personally I would prefer a more equal treatment of Zelda content, though SS should still get a stage and everything), I just don't think it will amount to anything more than TP did for Brawl, which was the design of the characters, and the non-character related content. Wii U Zelda might be unveiled before SSB4 releases, but I agree the content from it will be minimal to none. I don't think however, just because SS will receive the majority of the content, Ghirahim's chances are therefore good. Stuff like stages and trophies are a lot different than characters for a series like Zelda.

Well, until he does re-appear, which, who knows, maybe he will one day, he is a one-shot character. It would be different if he was hinted, either in game or by Nintendo, to possibly reappear again, but afaik he hasn't. And Ghirahim and Midna aren't in the exact same situation, but they are in a similar one. There are several parallels to draw between them, such as being highly popular (for a time) major supporting characters in one title, who at one point had a fairly large demand for Smash, and so far have only appeared once each. Midna if anything has the upper hand, as her game was released fairly close to Brawl's original projected release, and was on the same system, where Ghirahim will be several years old, and definitely not in his prime or at his peak. I'm not saying necessarily Midna is more deserving, I'm just saying Midna had as much if not more going for her, and she still didn't get included, so seeing as there are definite similarities, it should be no surprise if Ghirahim is also excluded.

I get that, and I'm not trying to come in and rain on his parade really, I'm just trying to look at things realistically. Nowhere did I say he definitely won't appear, I just think the chances are strongly against him. It's hardly impossible he gets included, even if unlikely.

You have to be careful when looking back in the past. When using Brawl as a base, you can't just say "This happened in Brawl and it will happen here too." You have to understand why it happened in Brawl.

First, I don't think one shot matters. Sheik was a one shot. Roy was a one shot. Lucas is still a one shot. Ice Climbers are a one shot. Just because a character has only appeared once does not mean they would not happen at all. The series has added quite a few of those characters.

The other think is to remember that times are different now than in Brawl. In Brawl, there were characters like Olimar, Diddy, Dedede, Wario, Meta-Knight and even Wolf. Sonic too after Snake was shown. There were plenty of strong characters who were not in Melee. SSB4 does no have the same issue. There are only about 6 really strong characters: Little Mac, Takamaru, Shulk, Plautena, King K Rool and Ridley. After that, it's anyone's game. So there is less competition. Also, it was never just Midna. Vatti and Skull Kid popped up too. Zelda was not focused. Today, Zelda is focused around Ghirahim and he is pretty popular. The reason we can not just look at the past is that it isn't as relevant. It makes more sense to understand why did Midna not get in. She didn't get in as there were many better choices than her at the time and she wasn't as popular. She still had to deal with Vatti and Skull Kid. Because of that, there was no real popular Zelda character. Now there is.

Another thing we can't forget is Toon Zelda. This tells us two things. First, it shows that Zelda was weak in terms of characters. Second, it shows Sakurai intended for there to be more Zelda characters. Ghirahim is one of the more popular characters. Shortie's poll puts him at number 10. I don't think there were any Zelda characters that high back in Brawl. The timing is a lot better now. There is intent for a Zelda character and Ghirahim fits the bill well. He may or may not be in. All I'm saying is that you can't rule him out because of what happened with Zelda during Brawl.

 

[Maffewt]

The other think is to remember that times are different now than in Brawl. In Brawl, there were characters like Olimar, Diddy, Dedede, Wario, Meta-Knight and even Wolf. Sonic too after Snake was shown. There were plenty of strong characters who were not in Melee. SSB4 does no have the same issue. There are only about 6 really strong characters: Little Mac, Takamaru, Shulk, Plautena, King K Rool and Ridley. After that, it's anyone's game. So there is less competition.

I thought you made a lotta awesome points, 'cept for this one. That's only 7 from Brawl - one more than listed for the next game. And I'd say that Megaman, Toad and maybe Isaac are at least as wanted as anyone you mentioned from brawl or 4.

l don't think that'll hinder Ghirahim's chances much, though. It makes sense having just the 'main three' - or iterations thereof - as reps for Zelda, but Sakurai's going to eventually have to start putting in others, the series is too well liked with too many popular characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

How come Lucas is still a oneshot but Sheik isn't SmashChu? They both appear in only one title, remakes I don't really count.

 

[SmashChu]

I thought you made a lotta awesome points, 'cept for this one. That's only 7 from Brawl - one more than listed for the next game. And I'd say that Megaman, Toad and maybe Isaac are at least as wanted as anyone you mentioned from brawl or 4.

l don't think that'll hinder Ghirahim's chances much, though. It makes sense having just the 'main three' - or iterations thereof - as reps for Zelda, but Sakurai's going to eventually have to start putting in others, the series is too well liked with too many popular characters.

The 6 I mentioned have the best changes of anyone. Megaman is hindered by the fact he is third party (were he a Nintendo character, it would be 7 instead of 6). Toad isn't that popular for Smash and Mario is like Zelda use to be. Another topic for another time. I'm not confident in Issac. To get you up to speed: all the characters in Smash are from series that are developed by first party Nintendo companies. Pokemon is developed by a second party (Game Freak), but Nintendo owns the rights to Pokemon though the Pokemon Company. Sakurai has skipped over the series made from Melee to Brawl such as Drill Dozer and Golden Sun and complained Nintendo hasn't made any new games. I think this is going to hold Issac back.

Otherwise, I'm glad you liked my post. I think Sakurai wan'ts more Zelda characters, just he hasn't had the opportunity yet. I think Ghirahim fills that void well.

How come Lucas is still a oneshot but Sheik isn't SmashChu? They both appear in only one title, remakes I don't really count.

Typo

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Irrelevant to the discussion, but I found this amusing.

 

[Fun With Knives]

That's the first fight with Girahim. I don't think you can get the Hylian Shield that early.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

That's the first fight with Girahim. I don't think you can get the Hylian Shield that early.

It could be from the original e3 demo

 

[Frostwraith]

It could be from the original e3 demo

Or during the boss rush mode.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That's the first fight with Girahim. I don't think you can get the Hylian Shield that early.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Or during the boss rush mode.

ah true your right, i forgot that even though its part of the means to getting the shield lol

 

[Diddy Kong]

I never even got the Hylian Shield lol

Ok question: how can a Hylian Shield excist without there being Hylians?

 

[Frostwraith]

I never even got the Hylian Shield lol

Ok question: how can a Hylian Shield excist without there being Hylians?

Time paradox?

Also, Hyrule's name comes from the name Hylian, who are the people protected by the goddess Hylia, who was reborn as a mortal. Something like this.

 

[FalKoopa]

Also, Hyrule's name comes from the name Hylian, who are the people protected by the goddess Hylia, who was reborn as a mortal. Something like this.

The place was named Hyrule probably it was ruled by Hylia. Just saying.

 

[Frostwraith]

The place was named Hyrule probably it was ruled by Hylia. Just saying.

I think it's named Hyrule because it was founded by Hylians. Then again, I'm not remembering those details now...

 

[FalKoopa]

Then again, I'm not remembering those details now...

The Zelda timeline is really messed up. I think it was only after The Wind Waker that games were made with the timeline in mind.

 

[Banjodorf]

I never even got the Hylian Shield lol

Ok question: how can a Hylian Shield excist without there being Hylians?

That's a really good question. They could've called it the Shield of the Hero, but nooooo....

Maybe those who originally served Hylia were the Hylians? It would make sense...maybe the TD got the shield from one of them? Or Hylia herself?

 

[Frostwraith]

Or perhaps the Hylian Shield in SS is actually non-canon and was only put there as an easter egg?

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Hylian Shield actually was used by Hylian soldiers, the soldiers protecting Hyrule Castle in the time of Ocarina of Time. The humans descending from Link, Zelda and the Skyloftians are the ones called Hylians. The Sheikah where probably the only human warriors who served Hylia.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

When they went back down to land they named the land Hyrule, after the Goddess Hylia who was reborn as Zelda. Thus that is why her family became royality.

 

[Frostwraith]

Supporters of Ghirahim, I have made signature images for him.

Even if his chances aren't exactly the best, I thought I would add something to his support thread as a Ghirahim supporter.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Thank you Frostwraith! I'll be putting these in the opening posts and giving credit to you for creating them, much appreciated.

 

[Deleted member]

Holder, you should add Shortie's poll into the OP and try to incorporate it into your argument (also mention that it should be taken with a lot of grain of salt). Also try to mention what makes Ghirahim stand out in popularity aside in comparison to Midna, Zant and Vaati in Brawl (SmashChu laid out a good argument for it).

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Those are good suggestions, I'll try to figure out how to implement the former. As for discussing Ghirahim's popularity further, I will either quote Smashchu, or go back and redesign the OP, or maybe both.

 

[Deleted member]

I support Ghirahim although I never played Skyward Sword.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Kotaku has recognized his lord fabulousness, and honored him with an article

Challenger Approaching: Ace of Diamonds

 

[Bowserlick]

Ghirahim will tongue stab anyone in his way. If Sakurai wants an exciting character, Ghirahim is his man.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Kotaku has recognized his lord fabulousness, and honored him with an article

Challenger Approaching: Ace of Diamonds

Considering Kotaku's reputation, that's not really a good thing.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Considering Kotaku's reputation, that's not really a good thing.

meh, any exposure is good for some characters at this point.

 

[N3ON]

8/10 for Ghirahim while K. Rool gets a 6/10. Well done Kotaku, well done.

meh, any exposure is good for some characters at this point.

I guess, though it's a bit late for popularity to still matter.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Dang it, I was going to post that just now... Well, I'll update it into the OPs I guess.

Anyways, its always good to get exposure, we don't really know when its "too late", in fact it could be a while until its too late. Unlikely, but there isn't really certainty on the subject is my point.

 

[Ultinarok]

You have to be careful when looking back in the past. When using Brawl as a base, you can't just say "This happened in Brawl and it will happen here too." You have to understand why it happened in Brawl.

First, I don't think one shot matters. Sheik was a one shot. Roy was a one shot. Lucas is still a one shot. Ice Climbers are a one shot. Just because a character has only appeared once does not mean they would not happen at all. The series has added quite a few of those characters.

The other think is to remember that times are different now than in Brawl. In Brawl, there were characters like Olimar, Diddy, Dedede, Wario, Meta-Knight and even Wolf. Sonic too after Snake was shown. There were plenty of strong characters who were not in Melee. SSB4 does no have the same issue. There are only about 6 really strong characters: Little Mac, Takamaru, Shulk, Plautena, King K Rool and Ridley. After that, it's anyone's game. So there is less competition. Also, it was never just Midna. Vatti and Skull Kid popped up too. Zelda was not focused. Today, Zelda is focused around Ghirahim and he is pretty popular. The reason we can not just look at the past is that it isn't as relevant. It makes more sense to understand why did Midna not get in. She didn't get in as there were many better choices than her at the time and she wasn't as popular. She still had to deal with Vatti and Skull Kid. Because of that, there was no real popular Zelda character. Now there is.

Another thing we can't forget is Toon Zelda. This tells us two things. First, it shows that Zelda was weak in terms of characters. Second, it shows Sakurai intended for there to be more Zelda characters. Ghirahim is one of the more popular characters. Shortie's poll puts him at number 10. I don't think there were any Zelda characters that high back in Brawl. The timing is a lot better now. There is intent for a Zelda character and Ghirahim fits the bill well. He may or may not be in. All I'm saying is that you can't rule him out because of what happened with Zelda during Brawl.

You keep forgetting Mewtwo, who has had numerous movie appearances, including a new one with a new form that's about to come out in celebration of generation 6, and is also a veteran, and an EXTREMELY popular character, especially in Japan, where I believe he's number one. At this point, he seems more viable than even Takamaru, Shulk or Palutena, although I'll agree about Ridley, K. Rool and Mega Man. I could be wrong of course, but his new promotions and spotlight role in the Pokemon series seem to cement his reappearance.

That said, I'm all for Ghirahim appearing, as I think having a character set of Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Impa and Ghirahim would be awesome, as each is memorable and brings something unique to the table, but I don't think both will get in with Toon Link around. Thus I don't know if I should support Impa (who is a recurring supporting character and seems like a good replacement for Sheik) or Ghirahim (who is much more popular and arguably more interesting).

 

[SmashChu]

You keep forgetting Mewtwo, who has had numerous movie appearances, including a new one with a new form that's about to come out in celebration of generation 6, and is also a veteran, and an EXTREMELY popular character, especially in Japan, where I believe he's number one. At this point, he seems more viable than even Takamaru, Shulk or Palutena, although I'll agree about Ridley, K. Rool and Mega Man. I could be wrong of course, but his new promotions and spotlight role in the Pokemon series seem to cement his reappearance.

Mewtwo is a returning characters so he's excluded in that.

That said, I'm all for Ghirahim appearing, as I think having a character set of Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Impa and Ghirahim would be awesome, as each is memorable and brings something unique to the table, but I don't think both will get in with Toon Link around. Thus I don't know if I should support Impa (who is a recurring supporting character and seems like a good replacement for Sheik) or Ghirahim (who is much more popular and arguably more interesting).

Toon Link or Young Link will return. I suspect SSB4 will take a stance of keeping characters. The character is well liked and Sakurai considers having two Links important (or something to that effect).

 

[Ultinarok]

Mewtwo is a returning characters so he's excluded in that.


Toon Link or Young Link will return. I suspect SSB4 will take a stance of keeping characters. The character is well liked and Sakurai considers having two Links important (or something to that effect).

Returning, yes, but also not a part of the most recent cast; aka Brawl. Thus, in order to return, he once again needs good reason since he doesn't have "already a part of the current cast" on his side.

I know they'll keep a second Link. Which is why I don't know which fifth character to support, because I'm going to assume that there won't be six reps.

 

[SureNsync]

I didn't support Ghirahim at first but when I saw his amazing move set potential and second form I changed my opinion and even if his true form is a sword, his usual form in the first battle of Skyward Sword should be enough to get him in and playing as a villain that is based on a sword alone would be interesting anyway.

 

[Ghirahilda]

 

[Hotfeet444]

I really am questioning Ghirahim's chances at this point. Sure, he's popular, but he's a one-time character and his role in the game has shown that he has little chance of coming back. He's not even the main villain of the game and he's pretty much the fabulous errand boy, AKA the Zant and Vaati complex.

If there's a villain that WOULD be included from Skyward Sword...it'd have to be the MAIN villain of Skyward Sword, Demise:

That, and Ghirahim isn't as popular as other characters who have had only one appearance in the series. Case in point, this adorable little thing:

I'd say that Ghirahim's chances have seriously dropped in the past years ever since his appearance in SS.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

I really am questioning Ghirahim's chances at this point. Sure, he's popular, but he's a one-time character and his role in the game has shown that he has little chance of coming back. He's not even the main villain of the game and he's pretty much the fabulous errand boy, AKA the Zant and Vaati complex.

If there's a villain that WOULD be included from Skyward Sword...it'd have to be the MAIN villain of Skyward Sword, Demise:

That, and Ghirahim isn't as popular as other characters who have had only one appearance in the series. Case in point, this adorable little thing:

I'd say that Ghirahim's chances have seriously dropped in the past years ever since his appearance in SS.

Theres no way to tell for sure, but the roster has been set in stone for a while as far as we know so any dip in his popularity wont mean a thing if they included him earlier than in that time where it slowed down a bit. And the one shot argument people tend to throw around doesnt really have a basis, sakurai can include whoever he wants and probably will as long as they have a fanbase, are interesting, and bring something to the table. Ghirahim was by far the most dynamic and interesting villain to come out of the zelda series in years, just because he wasnt the main villain doesnt mean he wasnt a good one, because he accomplished everything he set out to do and laughed the whole way through. He and midna have more personality than the entire cast, and they both have potential, but ghirahim even more so since he could still show up in future games. I doubt the tale of the dark mastersword will end there, since we never saw him die and we know demises evil continues on. Whos to stop another evil from searching for demises fabled blade down the line?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Theres no way to tell for sure, but the roster has been set in stone for a while as far as we know so any dip in his popularity wont mean a thing if they included him earlier than in that time where it slowed down a bit. And the one shot argument people tend to throw around doesnt really have a basis, sakurai can include whoever he wants and probably will as long as they have a fanbase, are interesting, and bring something to the table. Ghirahim was by far the most dynamic and interesting villain to come out of the zelda series in years, just because he wasnt the main villain doesnt mean he wasnt a good one, because he accomplished everything he set out to do and laughed the whole way through. He and midna have more personality than the entire cast, and they both have potential, but ghirahim even more so since he could still show up in future games. I doubt the tale of the dark mastersword will end there, since we never saw him die and we know demises evil continues on. Whos to stop another evil from searching for demises fabled blade down the line?

Well, people have speculated that Ghirahim has come back...in the form of this little purple thing:

Given they look pretty similar and have similar goals/roles, I wouldn't be surprised if Vaati really is Ghirahim incarnate.