Deleted

[Ulevo]

The contents of this thread were deleted by the user.

 

[Ulevo]

Don't worry about the unfinished material, there is still a LOT more to come. I wanted to post this now though so I don't lose the information I have written, and I need to head to work at the moment. I already have the rest on note pads, and it will be added shortly.

Also, if a Mod is able to sticky this, I think it would be very beneficial.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I only glanced over it since I'm pressed for time right now, but it's been confirmed that the Dancing Blade doesn't renew itself, but it will still renew Marth's other moves.

Still sexy though. ^_^

 

[Ulevo]

I only glanced over it since I'm pressed for time right now, but it's been confirmed that the Dancing Blade doesn't renew itself, but it will still renew Marth's other moves.

Still sexy though. ^_^

I'm on my break now, so I'm just checking things here. But thanks for informing me on that.

 

[Jibbles]

Also, did you test the percentages on training mode? Because I've seen Marth's fully charged FSmash tip do 27% (seen it once in a Marth vs G&W where Marth breaks GW's Shield and proceeds to fully charge a tipped FSmash) and an uncharged one do 20% (this I've seen a lot).

In most cases, it seems that the damage percents are 1% higher than what you wrote (Up B can do 14%, tipped DSmash can do up to 18%)

The damage dealt is equivalent to 1.2 x the damage Marth would have recieved normally

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't counter do 1.1x damage and not 1.2x?

I'm very excited for the final product. Very good job on the guide so far!

 

[∫unk]

You need to have a clear break between Marth's moveset section and Marth's basic tactics section. Actually in general I think you need bolded large text that clearly labels each section.

I don't think you need the matchup, counterpicks, or the useful threads section (which aren't filled out as of now anyway). Emblem Lord and I have threads discussing matchups and coutnerpicks, I already have a thread up that's sticked for useful threads.

Still, a very good guide. I will add it to the sticky thread.

 

[alchfilosofer]

Man, awesome job, just ad frame data, i don't think Mew2king would mind if you copy his:
"Fair - 4
Uair - 5
Nair - 6
Dair - 6
Bair - 7

U tilt - 6
D tilt - 7
F tilt - 8

D smash - 6
F smash - 10
U smash - probably 12 or 13 like SSBM

Forward B - 4
Up B - 5 (but now you are invincible frames 1 2 3 4 and 5, and possibly even 6 although I'm not sure on that, where as in melee you were only invincible ON frame 5, making up B marth's new SHINE)
Down B - 5
B - didn't test, but it's slower than his other standard moves

Dash attack - didn't test, but if I had to make an educated guesstimate I'd say 13

Jab - 4

Grab - 6 (before it was 7, but it's still worse in like every way)"

 

[Ulevo]

Also, did you test the percentages on training mode? Because I've seen Marth's fully charged FSmash tip do 27% (seen it once in a Marth vs G&W where Marth breaks GW's Shield and proceeds to fully charge a tipped FSmash) and an uncharged one do 20% (this I've seen a lot).

In most cases, it seems that the damage percents are 1% higher than what you wrote (Up B can do 14%, tipped DSmash can do up to 18%)


Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't counter do 1.1x damage and not 1.2x?

I'm very excited for the final product. Very good job on the guide so far!

Hm. I did test these in training mode (and I forgot to mention that decay was not going to be a factor in my results), but I will go into versus mode and see whats going on. You're also correct on the counter, and I was confusing it with Ikes. Thanks for pointing that out.

You need to have a clear break between Marth's moveset section and Marth's basic tactics section. Actually in general I think you need bolded large text that clearly labels each section.

I don't think you need the matchup, counterpicks, or the useful threads section (which aren't filled out as of now anyway). Emblem Lord and I have threads discussing matchups and coutnerpicks, I already have a thread up that's sticked for useful threads.

Still, a very good guide. I will add it to the sticky thread.

I do admit I need to make the guide more clear cut to read. I wanted to make this guide complete before posting, but I didn't have the time and wanted to save the information. I'll make sure to do some editing later. I actually planned on bolding each section.

Also, my goal is to make a guide that has as much resourceful information as possible. I'm not going to go into the completely nitpicky details of things, but merely point out what is and isn't important to know in competitive Smash for Marth. I think Counterpicks and Character Advantages fit that bill. I may wind up added your threads into the sections instead though.

Man, awesome job, just ad frame data, i don't think Mew2king would mind if you copy his:
"Fair - 4
Uair - 5
Nair - 6
Dair - 6
Bair - 7

U tilt - 6
D tilt - 7
F tilt - 8

D smash - 6
F smash - 10
U smash - probably 12 or 13 like SSBM

Forward B - 4
Up B - 5 (but now you are invincible frames 1 2 3 4 and 5, and possibly even 6 although I'm not sure on that, where as in melee you were only invincible ON frame 5, making up B marth's new SHINE)
Down B - 5
B - didn't test, but it's slower than his other standard moves

Dash attack - didn't test, but if I had to make an educated guesstimate I'd say 13

Jab - 4

Grab - 6 (before it was 7, but it's still worse in like every way)"

Awesome. I'll make sure to add this to the information. Thank you. Credit to M2K of course.


I'm depressed. I want to get a snapshot of Marth doing his Shieldbreaker at the ending clip when you beat Classic mode, but I have no way to do so. Anyway, I'll be adding to this tomorrow. * Nod *

 

[Shök]

Ike's Counter is 1.2
Marth's is 1.1



Sick Guide man!
I never knew his U Smash was a semi-spike.
I also didn't know that his U'Tilt could MS.
That's Pretty sick.

 

[alchfilosofer]

I still need a picture to insert here for Marth's costume choices

ENJOY: http://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo/ssb/ssbb/ssbb_bustes.png

 

[Crizthakidd]

good guide. can wait to see the finish product

 

[Ulevo]

ENJOY: http://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo/ssb/ssbb/ssbb_bustes.png

Thank you very much good sir. I've clipped them and hosted them up for everyones viewing pleasure.

Later I will go through and re-edit everything. Most of this was typed at 2:00 AM so there is likely many mistakes and bad wording. I'll also work on fixing the % for versus mode, as well as work on the other sections and add any tactics I forgot to.

 

[∫unk]

You should add this somewhere:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4588971&postcount=40

I mean that's enough motivation to main Marth.

 

[BrawlBro]

can someone take a look at how useful marth can apply these advanced techniques?(if you dont know what they are there in the AT thread in brawl tatical discussion)I would test but I cant even perform some of the techniques... X_X

Smash boosting
Reverse boost grab
pivot sliding
dash pivot cancel

 

[Ulevo]

can someone take a look at how useful marth can apply these advanced techniques?(if you dont know what they are there in the AT thread in brawl tatical discussion)I would test but I cant even perform some of the techniques... X_X

Smash boosting
Reverse boost grab
pivot sliding
dash pivot cancel

Marth cannot perform any of these effectively if I do recall. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, I'm not near a Wii.

 

[BrawlBro]

hmm there under true "advance techniques"

Definition of true AT's is that any character can do them.


so are we sure?
----

and why is this thread getting buried this thread is win.

 

[Ulevo]

hmm there under true "advance techniques"

Definition of true AT's is that any character can do them.


so are we sure?
----

and why is this thread getting buried this thread is win.

That's not the definition of an advanced technique. Wobbling was an Advanced Tech, but exclusive to Ice Climbers only. I do appreciate the compliment though.

Anyway, I updated some of the information here. I still need to fix the % on moves, but its a tad hard with this cast on. Typing with one hand FTW. I'll try to update more information tomorrow. * Nod *

 

[BunDance]

Nice guide. Organized. Beginner-friendly.

 

[BrawlBro]

1. True AT's - techniques all characters can do, genuinely useful exploits and tricks.

taken straight from the advanced techniques thread. So according to this marth can do them.

Either their wrong or we're wrong, but somethings wrong.

 

[Ulevo]

taken straight from the advanced techniques thread. So according to this marth can do them.

Either their wrong or we're wrong, but somethings wrong.

Jewdo is likely using that to help organize the general techs from the character specific techs. It's preference, it's not about being wrong. But these are advanced techniques for Marth, and that is how I intend to keep it.

 

[Anth0ny]

Awesome guide, but I need some clarification. You're saying that Lylat Cruise is Marth's best counterpick? Or is that list in no order? I'm wondering because I believe that it's also his best counter pick, with Battlefield closely behind.

 

[BrawlBro]

Jewdo is likely using that to help organize the general techs from the character specific techs. It's preference, it's not about being wrong. But these are advanced techniques for Marth, and that is how I intend to keep it.

i know i was just hoping marth could do these things. im pretty sure you can get a little slide on the reverse boost grab... but whatever ill drop it for now.

EDIT: Ya see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpMPQnabTEs&feature=user
probably wont come into play very much but might be worth learning/

A couple things i picked up on while practicing today is that foxtrot to fsmash is awesome. Everyone knows you can cancel the first few frames of a dash to a fsmash, so if your foxtrotting you can obviously do it too, its just a little hard to time. The effect is basically with marth you can dash into fsmash. Very VERY useful for kills

 

[Ulevo]

Awesome guide, but I need some clarification. You're saying that Lylat Cruise is Marth's best counterpick? Or is that list in no order? I'm wondering because I believe that it's also his best counter pick, with Battlefield closely behind.

I did that purposely, actually. So yes, they're in order.

i know i was just hoping marth could do these things. im pretty sure you can get a little slide on the reverse boost grab... but whatever ill drop it for now.

EDIT: Ya see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpMPQnabTEs&feature=user
probably wont come into play very much but might be worth learning/

A couple things i picked up on while practicing today is that foxtrot to fsmash is awesome. Everyone knows you can cancel the first few frames of a dash to a fsmash, so if your foxtrotting you can obviously do it too, its just a little hard to time. The effect is basically with marth you can dash into fsmash. Very VERY useful for kills

Marth happens to have a minimal boost with the Pivot Wave Grab, and doing it normally is likely more effective. I also have the Fox Trot to FSmash posted already. * Nod *

 

[OmegaSephiroth]

Nice guide. Keep up the good work.

BTW, "autocancelled aerials" and "A better 'Super Armor List' thread" have the same link.

 

[Ulevo]

Nice guide. Keep up the good work.

BTW, "autocancelled aerials" and "A better 'Super Armor List' thread" have the same link.

Ah, thank you. I'll fix that.

 

[OmegaSephiroth]

Same with C-stick compendium and physics of attacks. But I think you already noticed that.

 

[BrawlBro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sULt-DW3NwQ
new ""AT"" (speculatively)


useful for marth or not useful for marth?

 

[Shök]

Good combo:
Short Hop Fair-Uair-UTilt.
Perfect set up for a juggle, almost always works (95% if the Fair is hit, 100% if the U-air).

 

[Ulevo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sULt-DW3NwQ
new ""AT"" (speculatively)


useful for marth or not useful for marth?

No, it doesn't apply to Marth.

Good combo:
Short Hop Fair-Uair-UTilt.
Perfect set up for a juggle, almost always works (95% if the Fair is hit, 100% if the U-air).

I've already listed the combos for Uair set ups, and the Fair doesn't combo into Uair. I will likely mention it in the set ups later though, once I can type with two hands again.

 

[alchfilosofer]

bump of great justice

 

[DireklianCliff]

Thanks!

I just wanted to say thank you for this guide.

I like to consider myself a moderate Marth player, and while I found I instinctively performed many of these moves, there were others that I did not know about. Things like the Short Hop Dancing Fair combo I never thought of performing. I can already see an improvement in my performance! So, by keeping your guide in mind, I believe I can skyrocket my abilities with Marth.

So thank you again, my good sir. I am in your debt.

 

[Ulevo]

I appreciate the sentiment. I have kept consciously aware of all these tactics, and I know they've helped me. I still need to finish this, so wait for more to come sometime after this Sunday.

Also, I ordered a Dazzle and it should be in sometime, so I might make a compilation displaying applications for these tactics if I have time.

 

[Shök]

BTW....
Foostool Spiking is AKA Vertical spacing.

But I agree with Junk. There is already a Match up and a counterpick thread.

 

[Ulevo]

I plan on going in depth on the match ups and stages in an organized fashion. I will likely link to Emblem Lords thread for this as well, and may draw a few quotes from things that have been nailed on the head already. I certainly don't deem it unecessary though.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Thanx a lot!

Seriously, this is amazing, I especially like the stage part, since I wasn't sure what stages I should put on for the random stage switch. Do you think these will be the only ones that are legal or what, and what about melee stages?

 

[Ulevo]

Seriously, this is amazing, I especially like the stage part, since I wasn't sure what stages I should put on for the random stage switch. Do you think these will be the only ones that are legal or what, and what about melee stages?

No, there will be more. I'm also going to add the Melee stages. I think I may make my update right now, as my hand is feeling alright and it's storming outside.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

Great guide. As a new Marth player this will be useful as I expand my Marth game.

 

[Megavitamins]

Why is this at the bottom? This is a really great guide Nice work.

 

[Anth0ny]

This may sound like a stupid question, but I might as well give it a shot.

I'm going to a tournament in about two weeks. In the Greater Toronto Area, a large amount of very good players play Meta Knight. I've been practicing against Meta Knights since I lost to one in my last tournament, but I was wondering something. Are there any stages that can be counterpicked with Marth to go directly against MK? I've been having the most luck with Lylat Cruise (the same goes for every other character), but am I missing something? Rainbow Cruise is anti-Snake (pretty much disables a Snake from using projectiles effectively), is there an anti-MK?

This is the list of legal stages at my tourny:

Neutral stages (will be on random select):
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Lylat Cruise
Smashville

Counterpicks (are not on random select, but are legal stages to be selected):
Pokemon Stadium - Melee
Rainbow Cruise - Melee
Delfino Plaza
Squeege's Mansion
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Castle Siege
Jungle Japes - Melee
Brinstar - Melee
Distant Planet

Again, sorry if it's a stupid question, but I was compelled to ask and make sure I'm not missing something. Thanks in advance!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Any stage Marth does well on, so does MK.