Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[bessie]

Slow in that case isn't about quantity of posts, it's about what's happening. After the Eido discussion, everyone kind of picked a side and then we stagnated and gravitated towards yeeting the low posters, which wasn't wrong, but ran the risk of us yeeting a town and then going into D2 with very little information.

Ok. But in yeeting somitomi, we were yeeting a lurker anyway, and if somitomi had flipped town it wouldn’t have given us much information. So what was the point?

I don't know if Laser building a case on Wam would have made me feel better about him. It would have depended on the case, maybe, since he knows Wam better than I do. I feel like Wam is pretty town, but obviously if Laser is town, then I'm wrong on you, Swiss or Wam, so. I really don't know.

Laser did an analysis of Wam and ended up leaning town on him. You say your feeling on Laser depends on the case; so I guess you mean it depends on it being the case you want, not his actual case.

I'd give him points for reinforcing townreads, but I don't think he's really been doing that. He's leaving the door for Wam or Swiss to be scum when I flip, which could still come from town, but isn't helpful. He's clearing you, but everyone is clearing you, and he kind of has to, because we all know he should be able to read you. I don't think anything he's posted on Wam, Swiss or even you has been convincing to me on a logical or emotional level. Any faith I've put in his reads just comes from the knowledge that if he's town, the reads are real and he's usually decent at them (which, again, isn't a good look when I know town!Laser has to be clearing scum), and if he's scum, well everyone else is town anyway.

So, again, you’re scum reading LaserGuy because even though he has presented analysis, he’s not presenting the analysis you want.

Maybe I'd be more generous with Laser if it felt like his push on me was in good faith? Like, all of Swiss, Wam and you have all tried to talk to me. But surety in someone being scum, however wrong that is, to the point that you can't bring yourself out of tunneling them is something that shows up from town more than is does from scum, so I didn't want to attack Laser for that. And, if he was town, me attacking him would probably just make it harder for him to get out of his tunnel. But, I don't think that's what this is, because if Laser was tunneled on me here like how he was tunneled on Chaco in Things I Like, then I don't think he would have backed down on yeeting me Yesterday and let the Eido yeet happen instead.

This is a difference in style and is not necessarily alignment indicative, and I would think that a player of your experience would recognize it as such.

If you're feeling uncertain between Laser and Wam Tomorrow, vote Laser for me, please.

I think it's ok to yeet me. I'm not 100% certain Laser is the wolf. I'm not even 80% certain. And if Laser is town, me flipping will hopefully be the shock he needs to get his head in the game, and perform well in Final 3.

This you?

I'd give him points for reinforcing townreads, but I don't think he's really been doing that. He's leaving the door for Wam or Swiss to be scum when I flip, which could still come from town, but isn't helpful.

I would feel better if I can get some confirmation from Bessie that she understands why I think it's Laser and that she'll keep it in mind, because if Laser is the wolf, I think Bessie voting wrong is how we lose.

No I don't understand why you think LaserGuy is (80% or less) scum.

Straight out the gate Laser Votes Somi. Justified it as 'meta' and moves on.

This was a joke in reference to the signup thread and the previous game. It was explained at least twice in this game.

This is one of the interactions that, after the Somi flip - feel very insincere. Who RVS votes, then quotes an old post to remove the RVS vote? Why go to the effort of doing this? Unless you want to have reasonable justification for later reading your buddy wrong.

Side note, Don't forget Somi's Character assassination of Bessie.

Side note, don’t forget Swiss doesn’t understand jokes.

I've gone over this before but it's extremely important.

The bolded are the potential locations of Somi's teammate.
Somi is, in the mafia sense, cowardly.
Does he full on bus me? Extremely unlikely.
Does he full buddy to Font? Extremely unlikely.

A player like Somi plays it safe.

Leaves us with Bessie, Laser, Wam.
Pick one as the scum from this three.

This is a completely ridiculous conclusion. You have played one game with somitomi. Unless you have been reading old games, you don’t have enough meta information to make this judgement.

This is an overwhelmingly strong clear, for someone who in their last posts was saying I looked "super scummy".
Bessie did you come in D2 and think wow Swiss and Wam must be locktown? No, you didn't. This is the 'townie' push from an extremely basic wagon analysis. Looks very bad.

You are correct in that I did not put you and Wam as lock town. But as you play more games with me, you will know that I don’t hand out “locktown” reads. I have said many times that I don’t consider anyone locktown unless I see it in bold from the mod. [It was convention on xkcd for anything the mod posts in bold to be truth, italics is either flavor or not guaranteed to be truth.] But I recognize that others do it.

If Font is scum, woudl you kindly explain why they've been openly disingenuous and egotistical, clearly believing themselves to be in the right.

Examples include offering as yeet then blatantly not, then acting like we're the dumb ones.
Calling me (or was it gorf) a lvl0 player
Big head to head for no gain with me
Big head to head for no gain with eido

Why would a scum, especially a solo scum who needs allies - play so stupidly?

You’ve been given links to previous games so that you can research fonti’s meta yourself. She is perhaps egotistical and can be disingenuous, but I wouldn’t consider anything in her content stupid at all. I would call her a very aggressive and confident player, which for fonti is NAI. Just because you wouldn’t play that way doesn’t mean someone else wouldn’t.

My whole shtick with Font is that they flip from reasonable and engaging, to egotistical and rude - which is nit consistent.

And this is it, it's not consistent, she's clearly smart, but if she were scum, she would be very careful to make sure her personality arc fits in and makes 'sense'.

Again, are you sure you’re not just projecting how you play to make a judgement against someone else?

 

[Swiss]

I Have a few minutes to post

Bessie I know the post was a joke - it doesn’t change the awkwardness behind it.

I don’t need to have played 50 games with someone like Somi to analyse them. They play like a lot of people.

I read the old games and stand by my conclusion.

Partly I am using how I play because Font is one of the few people I’ve played mafia with that I think are capable. That shouldn’t matter to you - what matters is am I right?

 

[Swiss]

Serious cringe if I’m wrong here.

Font please HELP YOURSELF.

Does no one see the links between Somi and Laser as buddies? Like I cannot be alone in this

 

[Swiss]

I cannot fathom how people can reread these interactions and not come to the same conclusion.

 

[Swiss]

I’m doing it. Font is locktown too.

There is no way she plays like this as scum. She’s too smart to be so dumb. Bessie locktown. Wam almost certainly town.

It has to be Laser

 

[Swiss]

Ranmaru I need you viewing the thread again please - makes me feel like I have backup

 

[fontisian]

Swiss, you've told me every time I've tried to help myself I've made things worse. I don't know what I can actually do here, my cards are on the table. I appreciate you trying, shrug.

 

[fontisian]

Yes, I was pretty tunneled on Chaco and cased him pretty hard fairly early on, but aside from the public spectacle, my vote EoD1 vote was on Wam. My EoD2 vote was actually also on Wam, and it was for the better part of the day phase. I would have tried to yeet you with BoomFrog if we had had ten more minutes. I never stopped reading Chaco as scum, but I put him on the backburner while I narrowed down my other scumreads, and, ultimately, I try put my vote where I feel it will do the most good. I think you're looking at my D1 play in Apex in isolation (where I did cast my vote on principle because all of the options were terrible and I was very frustrated with the game by that point) and assuming that's how I play in all of my games. My scum pool yesterday was you and Eido. Everyone else I had/have a good reason to believe is Town, and so I voted accordingly.



You've never found my reads compelling, regardless of our respective alignments. We look for different things, have different ways of evaluating people, and don't see eye to eye about almost anything. You expressed a very similar sentiment in our last game together, where we were both Town:


With regards to the rest, I will say that the criticism that I haven't been tryharding that much this game is probably accurate. We yeeted scum D1, have a pretty solid Towncore and a tight PoE on the remaining players. I think there is a very good chance that the game ends today. If it happens that I get yeeted first and you get yeeted D4, I think that's still probably a win. So, yes, I don't feel the need to do giant cases or extremely in-depth analysis. I just don't feel it is necessary at this stage.

Ok.

So be it.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v3.3

Laserguy (2): Swiss, Fontisian
Fontisian (2): Wam, Laserguy

Not Voting (1): Bessie

With 5 players remaining it takes 3 votes to eliminate!

Deadline is in approximately 12 hours!

 

[fontisian]

Ok. But in yeeting somitomi, we were yeeting a lurker anyway, and if somitomi had flipped town it wouldn’t have given us much information. So what was the point?


Laser did an analysis of Wam and ended up leaning town on him. You say your feeling on Laser depends on the case; so I guess you mean it depends on it being the case you want, not his actual case.


So, again, you’re scum reading LaserGuy because even though he has presented analysis, he’s not presenting the analysis you want.


This is a difference in style and is not necessarily alignment indicative, and I would think that a player of your experience would recognize it as such.



View attachment 313485



This you?




No I don't understand why you think LaserGuy is (80% or less) scum.


This was a joke in reference to the signup thread and the previous game. It was explained at least twice in this game.


Side note, don’t forget Swiss doesn’t understand jokes.


This is a completely ridiculous conclusion. You have played one game with somitomi. Unless you have been reading old games, you don’t have enough meta information to make this judgement.


You are correct in that I did not put you and Wam as lock town. But as you play more games with me, you will know that I don’t hand out “locktown” reads. I have said many times that I don’t consider anyone locktown unless I see it in bold from the mod. [It was convention on xkcd for anything the mod posts in bold to be truth, italics is either flavor or not guaranteed to be truth.] But I recognize that others do it.


You’ve been given links to previous games so that you can research fonti’s meta yourself. She is perhaps egotistical and can be disingenuous, but I wouldn’t consider anything in her content stupid at all. I would call her a very aggressive and confident player, which for fonti is NAI. Just because you wouldn’t play that way doesn’t mean someone else wouldn’t.


Again, are you sure you’re not just projecting how you play to make a judgement against someone else?

To get info.

No, I mean it would depend on the case. If Laser scumread Wam but I didn't find it convincing, then I probably would not have liked him for it. If his townread on Wam was more convincing, I probably would have liked it more.

What I'm seeing from him is a lack of townie intent, where everyone else feels like they have it, and that's hard to express.

Leaving the door open for Wam or Swiss to be your vote by saying they're 80% or 90% is not the same thing as critically lookong through them. The wam townread from Laser is important because it makes it harder for scum!Laser to backtrack, but town!Laser shouldn't have as much of an issue being genuine as he reassesses.

More important bits:
Swiss understands the joke. It's scummy because the first thing Laser did in the game is set up the idea that he can't read Somi, so if Somi flips later, scum!Laser can't get blamed for townreading Somi and not voting him. It's also just a weird thing to joke about.

Look at Laser's case on Eido again, with the knowledge that Eido is town and Laser towmread him Day 1. Then compare the posts Laser quoted to all the ones Eido made. Imo, he left out the best ones, and that feels deliberate.

 

[fontisian]

I am busy all day, don't expect to see me.

 

[Swiss]

bessie is Town.
Swiss is 90-95% Town.
Wam is 80-85% Town.
Fonti is scum.

So who you pushing toMorrow in the final 3?

 

[bessie]

Partly I am using how I play because Font is one of the few people I’ve played mafia with that I think are capable. That shouldn’t matter to you - what matters is am I right?

I don’t know if you are right; I feel you are wrong.

Does no one see the links between Somi and Laser as buddies? Like I cannot be alone in this

I don’t see it. Did fonti post any analysis on this particular point? There’s such an overload of content I can’t sort out what is important.

I’m doing it. Font is locktown too.

There is no way she plays like this as scum. She’s too smart to be so dumb. Bessie locktown. Wam almost certainly town.

It has to be Laser

And this is the reason fonti has to be the play today. If fonti is town, LaserGuy will be the D4 yeet, which should ensure a town win. If we yeet LaserGuy and he is town, you won’t yeet fonti tomorrow. She will come up with a case on either me or Wam and you will follow her.

If you think scum!fonti can't get out a D4 yeet in this game, it only took her about a page to get out of this give it a read.

To get info.

No, I mean it would depend on the case. If Laser scumread Wam but I didn't find it convincing, then I probably would not have liked him for it. If his townread on Wam was more convincing, I probably would have liked it more.

What I'm seeing from him is a lack of townie intent, where everyone else feels like they have it, and that's hard to express.

Leaving the door open for Wam or Swiss to be your vote by saying they're 80% or 90% is not the same thing as critically lookong through them. The wam townread from Laser is important because it makes it harder for scum!Laser to backtrack, but town!Laser shouldn't have as much of an issue being genuine as he reassesses.

More important bits:
Swiss understands the joke. It's scummy because the first thing Laser did in the game is set up the idea that he can't read Somi, so if Somi flips later, scum!Laser can't get blamed for townreading Somi and not voting him. It's also just a weird thing to joke about.

Look at Laser's case on Eido again, with the knowledge that Eido is town and Laser towmread him Day 1. Then compare the posts Laser quoted to all the ones Eido made. Imo, he left out the best ones, and that feels deliberate.

So, its scummy to be unsure because townies have conviction, but scummy to have focus because it hints at TMI? Got it.

I don't know that Swiss gets the joke. This is one reason I never RVS. I also have to add [/sarcasm] to some of my posts. I too find that people rarely understand me.

I don’t want to read a post that quotes every post Eido made in this game. I appreciate having someone filter content for what they believe are the important points. I still do not get the concept that volume is townie and brevity is scummy and I’ve been fighting this for the year I have been a member of this community.

 

[Swiss]

..I got the joke. I'm looking behind the joke.

 

[Swiss]

I sweat to god is Laser isn't yeeted toDay or toMorrow I will scream

 

[Wam]

I’m doing it. Font is locktown too.

There is no way she plays like this as scum. She’s too smart to be so dumb. Bessie locktown. Wam almost certainly town.

It has to be Laser

Given you have never played with scum font how are you so certain in your read that scum font wouldn't do this?

 

[Swiss]

Because Font is smart and this is not smart.

Scum Font doesn’t get hung up on details that don’t matter because it doesn’t gain anything.

Compare and contrast to Laser who has links or Somi - who has added little to the conversation and consistently hides being ‘meta’ reads of people

 

[Swiss]

I’ll happily commit to yeeting Font in the final 3 if it comes to that and you can have my word on that. I don’t think it’s Wam it’s just paranoia as it’s good to have a backup read and I really think font is town.

I strongly believe we should yeet laser first.

I give my word to yeet Font tomorrow - no excuses doesn’t matter what happens that’s my vote.

 

[Swiss]

The absolute carnage when I don’t vote font in the final 3 and they’re scum.

 

[Swiss]

^Bessie don’t read that post

 

[fontisian]

Because Font is smart and this is not smart.

Scum Font doesn’t get hung up on details that don’t matter because it doesn’t gain anything.

Compare and contrast to Laser who has links or Somi - who has added little to the conversation and consistently hides being ‘meta’ reads of people

He's correct, by the way, at least on me. Worth remembering this read for the next time we play.

 

[bessie]

Scum Font doesn’t get hung up on details that don’t matter because it doesn’t gain anything.

Yeah, kinda like power wolfing??

I’ll happily commit to yeeting Font in the final 3 if it comes to that and you can have my word on that. I don’t think it’s Wam it’s just paranoia as it’s good to have a backup read and I really think font is town.

I strongly believe we should yeet laser first.

I give my word to yeet Font tomorrow - no excuses doesn’t matter what happens that’s my vote.

It’s not that I don’t believe you think you will yeet fonti tomorrow; I just have my doubts it will actually happen. I’m tempted just because I want to see what she does to get out of it.


Pre post edit: Swiss, I already know you won't vote fonti tomorrow.

Second pre post edit:

He's correct, by the way, at least on me. Worth remembering this read for the next time we play.

I'm out of pics of my dog looking skeptical.


I'm going out and won't be back for at least an hour.

 

[Swiss]

^ I’m rusty and inconsistent - so I give myself leeway in a future game to be wrong.

I.e.

 

[Swiss]

I.e. I want to win if I’m scum next game

 

[Swiss]

bessie

I actually probably would go Font in any 3 way. Every time I reread Wam I simply cannot see him as scum - and you’re so far locktown that if you’re scum I quit mafia.

I say this genuinely not knowing what i would do - but I think the above is true.

I’ve had Laser!scum since N1 and I cannot shake it

 

[fontisian]

LaserGuy if you're town, it's Wam. Good luck with that.

bessie Your job is to yeet Laser Tomorroe. Deviate from that only if you feel very strongly.

Get it over with, fam.

 

[bessie]

I’ve had Laser!scum since N1 and I cannot shake it

I understand. However, I've had fonti!scum since early D1 and I can't shake it, can you not understand too?

bessie Your job is to yeet Laser Tomorroe. Deviate from that only if you feel very strongly.

I already said in #1112 that LaserGuy and Wam are about equal in my mind. One reason that I didn’t vote yet is that if I’m wrong on fonti, I may need to decide between them tomorrow. I wanted to give Swiss and Wam an opportunity to post because I may need that info to work it out.

Or I may get lucky and I’m the night kill.

fonti if you’re town, then you can help us out by replying to this, since Swiss didn’t reply.

I don’t see it. Did fonti post any analysis on this particular point? There’s such an overload of content I can’t sort out what is important.

 

[Swiss]

I do understand - but with Font I think there are reasons to see town in there. Do you see the same with Laser? He has one good post.

And I’ve covered that in my cases - the awkward rvs joke where he feels the need to justify the joke so he can unvote is a prime example and immensely important

 

[Swiss]

Bessie you saying you’re not sure between Wam and Laser if Font flips town means you are certain to not die.

I will die toNight - Bessie Wam Laser will be the final 3 saving a big wifom kill.

 

[bessie]

Did fonti do a somitomi-LaserGuy buddy analysis? I’m rereading now, I’m only on page six and this won’t be a thorough reread, it’s just a skim to see if any of the early content stands out to me now, taking in to account the thread content as a whole.

I also kinda want to vote and get it over with but I also don’t want to cut off anyone’s opportunity to contribute. Today is even more crucial than tomorrow if there is a tomorrow.

 

[Swiss]

I know I look like I'm flip-flopping here.

The last scum simply has to be in Laser/Font.

If you find yourself not sure who to vote toMorrow, vote the survivor of those two.

 

[Swiss]

I got nothing else to add

 

[Swiss]

Did fonti do a somitomi-LaserGuy buddy analysis? I’m rereading now, I’m only on page six and this won’t be a thorough reread, it’s just a skim to see if any of the early content stands out to me now, taking in to account the thread content as a whole.

I also kinda want to vote and get it over with but I also don’t want to cut off anyone’s opportunity to contribute. Today is even more crucial than tomorrow if there is a tomorrow.

Not a clue

 

[Wam]

bessie I won't have time for anything before deadline.

 

[bessie]

I know I look like I'm flip-flopping here.

The last scum simply has to be in Laser/Font.

If you find yourself not sure who to vote toMorrow, vote the survivor of those two.

I understand what you are trying to say.


I have often said that everything needed to solve a mafia game is available in the D1 content, if only one is smart enough and clever enough to see it.

Upon reread, I believe LaserGuy’s RVS vote is exactly what he claimed it was and I see no awkwardness in him removing it, nor in any subsequent explanation.

I like D1 Wam.

I don’t like D1 fonti.

I have some reservations on D1 LaserGuy.

I have my thoughts about who is more likely to kill Sabrar N1 and for what reasons. I was hoping to find a power role breadcrumb, which would help with that analysis, but oh well I suck at finding crumbs even if I know that I am looking for one, and I do not know if Sabrar left one.

I think LaserGuy devotes his weekends to his family, and deadline is before his usual weekend check in time. It doesn’t really matter if he posts or not, since anything at this point will be taken as WIFOM.

I asked if fonti did a Laser/somi buddy analysis because if she flips town, I will put more weight on it tomorrow. If fonti sees this and wants to reply I'll give her a few more minutes, I’m only on page 7 but I’m sure Swiss, Wam, and Sabrar would like to go to sleep.

 

[bessie]

I can’t get past my D1 scum read of fonti. I am trying to look at it as perhaps just a clash of styles, but there’s so much that reads scum to me.

fonti, if you’re town I’m sorry, you can take some consolation in knowing that I realize I suck. I keep playing mafia because I like it, not because I have any illusions that I’m some sort of mafia god.

Swiss get some sleep. If there is a D4, and if I am alive tomorrow and you are not, your reads will be primary in my mind.



Vote: fonti

 

[fontisian]

It's ok.

Bring it home Tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v3.4 (FINAL DAY 3 VOTE COUNT)

Fontisian (3): Wam, Laserguy, Bessie
Laserguy (2): Swiss, Fontisian

Fontisian has been eliminated by majority vote, she flips Vanilla Town!

Night 3 Begins! Deadline is 5/4/2021 @ 9 P.M. MDT!

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Day 4 Begins 5/4 at 9:30 P.M. MDT

In the night, Swiss (Town Vanilla) was killed.

With 3 living players, it takes 2 votes to eliminate!

Deadline is 5/6/2021 at 9:30 P.M. MDT

LaserGuy bessie Wam

 

[bessie]

In the night, Swiss (Town Vanilla) was killed.