Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[bessie]

ISOs using no previous notes for reference. One readthrough kinda fast (fast for 30 pages, it took me all night), no backtracking/corrections. Posts analyzed in retrospect of D4 game state, but I also made an attempt to read each post in isolation from other posts as much as possible.

 

[bessie]

LaserGuy

#59: Opens with RVS somitomi (this is a joke in reference to previous game and sign up thread), early opinions of three players (Wam, Gorf, Eido). +1
#80: Responds to questions, town lean for Swiss. Early opinions. +1
#106: Responds to Gorf, asks me about the points gambit. +0
#159: Responds to Gorf, explains RVS vote to Swiss and unvotes, Eido newbie town. +0
#161: Ordered list with snap reads. +1
#180: bessie meta read, response to Gorf. +0
#181: Questions Wam’s reads list re Sabrar, fonti. +0
#226: Responds to somitomi (awkward?), further questions bessie on points gambit (why?), responds to fonti and votes fonti with reasons. +1
#227: If fonti is scum, Wam is scum, no reasons given. -1
#273: Some responses to Gorf, fonti, will give detailed reads tomorrow. +0
#274: Response to bessie re Hari gambit. +0
#275: EBWOP. +0
#316: Detailed reads (extensive fonti scum read with added analysis on why Wam is buddy), ordered list, answers fonti’s yeet list questions. +1
#339: Some responses/clarification on fonti suspicion (I think these points are well thought out, but that in itself is NAI since they focus on meta). Also responds to bessie re gambit. +0
#391: Interested in fonti’s Swiss vote, but does not give any indication he is interested in switching. +0
#392: Re Maven. +0
#405: Drops Swiss scum shade but does not further question Swiss or move his vote. -1
#497: Resigned to somitomi yeet. +0
#524: Keeps vote on somitomi even though thereis an opportunity to switch to Swiss. +1
#545: Acknowledges hammer. +0

#553: Starts D2 with fonti vote for EoD Swiss push, wam and Swiss clear for positions on wagon. +1
#576: somi/fonti notes, I like this analysis. +1
#580: What was the point of post? It seems to contradict Laser’s fonti case. -1
#630: Question for Eido re scum pool, responses to Swiss. +1
#631: Response to Eido. +0
#651: Replies to fonti, Eido. +0
#655: Eido analysis, likes Eido but gets a buddy vibe with somitomi, unvotes fonti and switches suspicion to Eido. I don’t feel this post is sincere, but I see no reason to scum!Laser to switch from stronger fonti to Eido, when fonti yeet is still in play. +0
#656: Prods Eido to reply to #631. +0
#678: Finds Eido’s town read of fonti strange. +0
#679: Votes Eido but would prefer fonti. Why switch when fonti yeet is still in play? -1
#699: Reply to Eido, I agree with the reasoning but not the substance. -1
#700: Stating the obvious. +0
#750: Follows Swiss and switches vote from Eido (L-1) to fonti. I like this switch because it was clear that I was going to push for Eido. +1
#811: Requests I verify a meta read of fonti, switches from fonti to Eido because Eido is the more likely yeet. -1
#817: Response to fonti. +0
#824: Response to fonti re EoD1 somitomi/Swiss pushes. +1

#876: Reply to Swiss re fonti. I like this analysis, though I wonder if referring to Synchronicity as a strong townie is an attempt to buddy. [haha, of course he means Zen not me ] Also agree with Laser’s view of night kill analysis. +1
#892: fonti townie ping (but I don’t think there is any other way for Laser to interpret fonti’s remark), request for Stellaris. +0
#903: I think this is a good response to fonti re somitomi. +1
#910: fonti scum by PoE. I feel this is hedging, especially in light of his comments in #876. Laser doesn’t need to PoE fonti, he has reasons to scum read her. -1
#919: Reply to Swiss re bessie, valid analysis. +1
#941: Replies to Swiss. +0
#955: Reply to Swiss re Wam (Wam’s scum play is inconsistent), lukewarm meta analysis. +0
#1024: Wam read. Noncommittal town lean. +0
#1025: Some replies. +0
#1096: D3 fonti analysis and vote, I like this and feel Laser has valid points. +1
#1116: Response to fonti, I like this. +1
Response to criticism on content level, I feel that this is an unnecessary excuse. -1

#1163: Townreading both remaining players. Reply to Wam I agree with this. Asks about extension. +1
#1166: Formal extension request. +1
#1167: bessie analysis D1. Still questioning point gambit. Forgot about the shroop. I don’t see his somi analysis but I don’t do that type of read so meh. Raises a good point re somi’s #518 I need to check this. I think this post is very uninspiring. -1
#1168: bessie analysis Part 2. Found shroop, makes some good points. +1
#1179: Explains assigning me a scum point, other good points. +1
#1181: D1 Wam analysis. I feel this post is looking at Wam’s content is not from a neutral point of view, but to read him as scum. But I feel the EOD vote analysis is valid. -1
#1182: EBWEP. +0
#1184: Reply to Wam. +0
#1189: Formal extension request. +1
#1192: Wam final analysis and vote. Meta analysis this game and other games. Overall I think this is a good case, I hesitate though because of my distrust of building a case so strongly on meta. +1
#1193: Odd observation. +0
#1194: Good observation. +1

 

[bessie]

Wam

#9: Opens with Swiss vote, which may be RVS or serious. +0
#13: Reply implies vote was serious, points out we are at L-2 but does not remove vote. +0
#16: Question to Swiss. +0
#19: Reply to Eido (meta). +0
#20: Response to Sabrar, I like the tone of this post. +1
#24: Response to Swiss, I like the tone of this post. +1
#31: Sabrar town (meta). +0
#56: Confirms Sabrar meta read. +0
#81: Follows Swiss on Eido, interesting because Wam was voting Swiss. +0
#113: Various responses. +0
#116: Comment, town leans Swiss for #114. +1
#117: Reads list, groupings but not clearly ordered. +1
#121: Reply to Eido. +0
#122: OOG. +0
#123: EBWOP. +0
#130: Aggressive reply to Eido. +1
#143: Requests clarification from Eido. +0
#150: Reply to Eido. +0
#151: Observation. +0
#168: Some responses. +0
#175: Fluff. +0
#183: Response to LaserGuy, I feel there is a lot of hedging on Sabrar and Wam punts on fonti. -1
#208: Prods somitomi for substantial content in response to a fluffy post. I am undecided on if this is significant. +0
#220: Some snap reads. +1
#240: fonti TMI? +0
#287: Reminder hammer required, agrees with Laser re bessie gambit (hmm), responds to fonti’s bessie/somitomi team, votes somitomi for lurking (first vote on somi). This post has a very odd feel to me. -1
#291: Maven RL lurking pass, reply to bessie re gambit. +0
#314: Reply to bessie, fonti yeet question list, notes fonti’s somi push. +1
#319: Responds to Swiss. +0
#322: Won’t be on at deadline, reminder that hammer is required. +0
#323: Responds to Swiss. +0
#325: Time. +0
#329: Asks Sabrar where his head is at. +0
#334: Discussion to ensure hammer. I’m not sure if this townie, because the focus seems more to be on ensuring the yeet, not on trying to make an informed yeet. +0
#356: Responds to fonti’s Swiss vote. +0
#384: Question for Eido. +0
#390: Question for Swiss (note that Wam is not questioning Swiss aggressively enough to swing the vote). +0
#393: OOG. +0
#398: Swiss town read, not switching vote from somitomi. +0
#516: Open to switching as long as there is a yeet. -1
#517: Acknowledges bessie’s observstion re Eido possible PR slip. +0

#551: Starts D2 with fonti vote, no reason given. +0
#555: Why didn’t Wam answer fonti’s question in #552, and instead waited for fonti to answer it herself? This post states it was intentional, but I am unsure whether Wam was waiting because he didn’t want to give an answer, or if he withheld because he believed the question to be scum setting up an answer. -1
#556: Correction to #555. +0
#568: Aggressive questions to fonti. +1
#582: Meta reason for preferring fonti over Eido for yeet. +0
#598: Prods Swiss for voting Laser without giving reasons. +1
#599: Response to fonti re voting her for meta reasons. +0
#620: LAMIST I didn’t get killed N1! Note that something pinged Swiss re this post. -1
#629: Shade fonti. +0
#634: Fluff. +0
#669: Willing to yeet Eido to secure a lynch. +0
#680: Willing to hammer Eido but fonti requested more time. Feels wagony. -1
#686: Votecount. +0
#687: Can’t see getting anything but an Eido majority. Likely true but still feels wagony. -1
#691: Votecount correction. +0
#702: Ordered reads. +1
#705: Votes bessie. +1
#706: Unvotes bessie, votes Eido (next post, 2.5 hours later). Unfortunate bessie vote didn’t draw some reaction, but I feel he gave it enough time. +1
#723: Reply to Swiss re Laser, Wam is leaning town on Laser for not following fonti D1 on Swiss. +0
#724: Responds to wrong post. +0
#725: Correction. +0
#726: Question for Eido. +0
#729: Wants bessie to confirm a meta read of LaserGuy. -1
#730: Question for Eido. +0
#732: Wam claims his position on somi wagon clears him. -1
#737: Remaining mafia in Eido, fonti. +0
#742: Reply to bessie re Sabrar read, moves Eido below fonti based on Sabrar post. +0
#745: Pushes Swiss to hammer. I would normally find this suspicious but Wam is not in US time zone and hammer is required. +0
#747: Reply to fonti re time. +0
#749: Meta. +0
#751: Follows Laser on fonti. +0
#755: Questions Swiss on Laser swap. Wam is working to ensure a yeet. +0
#757: Will not vote Laser today. +1
#760: Will leave vote on a likely yeet candidate to ensure a yeet. +1
#761: Reply to Swiss. +0
#805: Votes Eido.

#851: Starts D3 with fonti vote and quotes post from D2 where fonti says to yeet her D3 if game isn’t over. +1
#858: Question to Swiss. +0
#864: Determined to yeet fonti for D2 content. +1
#868: Reply to Swiss. Valid but odd statement, since Wam earlier stated he was pushing fonti based on D2 content. +0
#870: Reply to Swiss. +0
#872: Reply to Swiss. +0
#874: Reply to Swiss. +0
#967: OOG. +0
#1038: Null, content to follow. +0
#1039: fonti analysis, Wam stated in #1038 that this would be an analysis of why fonti is scum so this is not from a neutral pov, but still has many valid observations. +1
#1042: Link request. +0
#1046: Responses to questions, I feel all these are good. +1
#1047: Response to fonti, good point. +1
#1048: Observation re fonti. +1
#1050: Summary of game state. +0
#1055: Response to fonti, valid but evident point. +0
#1075: Remark to fonti. +0
#1092: Valid question for fonti. +1
#1099: Valid point. +1
#1105: Question for fonti. +0
#1136: Question to Swiss re fonti. +1
#1154: OOG. +0

#1161: WIFOM remarks re elims. Comment to LaserGuy that both eliminations picked him as scum. Not sure how I feel about this post, as it asks LaserGuy to defend himself against two dead townies that were scum reading him but had no extra information. -1
#1162: Time zones, null. +0
#1165: Formal extension request. +1
#1173: D1 analysis. Focusing on D1 and somi elim (could be because Wam believes somi vote clears him), Laser’s RVS interesting (I think it is only interesting in retrospect), questions me on points gambit (done to death). -1
#1174: Null. +0
#1175: D1 analysis continued. Laser and I both quiet (this should be NAI and Wam knows it), reasonable observations of me, comments on somitomi’s #224 for only responding to Wam and bessie (I believe we were the only ones with open questions wouldn’t scum Wam know this?), doesn’t like Laser’s interactions with fonti, doesn’t think somi would meme if fonti caught the scum team (I disagree), leaning scum LaserGuy. I’m not convinced this analysis comes from town. -1
#1177: Replies to bessie, keeping Laser RVS and bessie gambit topics open. Dislike. -1
#1178: somi’s Laser read iffy (dislike Wam singling this out because all of somi’s reads are iffy), observation that Laser could be setting himself up to switch t Swiss (but doesn’t note that the switch didn’t happen). Ends with LAMIST. -1
#1180: Reply to Laser. +0
#1183: Reply to Laser. +0
#1185: Reply to Laser. +0
#1190: Formal extension request. +1
#1195: Votes LaserGuy. +0
#1196: Haha very funny. [/sarcasm] +0

 

[bessie]

I am determined to make this the last extension, so I wanted to get this posted tonight to allow time for responses. I am too tired to reflect on the analysis as a whole tonight.

I really miss the Gojoe thread. I can see Sabrar watching over me but it’s not the same as seeing a spoilered post that I know contains hidden words of encouragement.

Back in about 12 hours.

 

[Wam]

Why did you not vote if you weren’t sure if you would be back?

Is this a compliment or an insult??

Conciseness is appreciated.

Haha if this is a buddy attempt it won’t work, that read was by Right Brain.

Yeah but the point is that you worded it like you might not be back before deadline, why not drop a vote?

Wam you know you totally missed out on style points here.

I didn't vote because it was lylo and I was hesitating and doubting myself. I put the extension request in there so that we wouldnt hit deadline if I didnt make it back.

Bessie is definitely town. Which from my perspective makes is laser by POE. Will go through Bessie iso in a bit.

 

[Wam]

I am determined to make this the last extension, so I wanted to get this posted tonight to allow time for responses. I am too tired to reflect on the analysis as a whole tonight.

I really miss the Gojoe thread. I can see Sabrar watching over me but it’s not the same as seeing a spoilered post that I know contains hidden words of encouragement.

View attachment 314263


Back in about 12 hours.

There maybe a spectator thread?

 

[LaserGuy]

Is this a compliment or an insult??

It's a compliment to your hypothetical perfect scum game. I'm just glad I got at least one read right this game.

LaserGuy

#576: somi/fonti notes, I like this analysis. +1
#580: What was the point of post? It seems to contradict Laser’s fonti case. -1

#580 was in response to fonti's #577 where she claimed that the way she liked to distance as mafia was to push her buddies hard right until the end of the day then swerve late. My response in #580 was pointing out that I did not believe this self-assessment was not accurate--she didn't push her buddies hard in TIL and rather shuffled around on various townie wagons. fonti follows up to this with more meta details in #583.

#679: Votes Eido but would prefer fonti. Why switch when fonti yeet is still in play? -1
#750: Follows Swiss and switches vote from Eido (L-1) to fonti. I like this switch because it was clear that I was going to push for Eido. +1
#811: Requests I verify a meta read of fonti, switches from fonti to Eido because Eido is the more likely yeet. -1

Short answer on this section is that I thought there was a very good chance that one of the two was mafia and spent a lot of time mentally going back and forth between which one I thought was more likely to be scum, and, yes, which one I felt could be practically achieved on that day. Ultimately at #811 it was fairly clear that fonti was not going to happen as only me/Wam had any real interest in her.

#910: fonti scum by PoE. I feel this is hedging, especially in light of his comments in #876. Laser doesn’t need to PoE fonti, he has reasons to scum read her. -1

fonti had just given me a townie vibe in #877. I often put a lot of trust in these sort of live reads because they tend to be more reliable than my really detailed cases (see, end of Wam's game with Swiss, for example). I was mulling this over at the time and ultimately, decided I trusted my other townreads more.

My comments in #876 aren't a scum case, rather that I was explaining to Swiss that fonti can't be read accurately on tone as either alignment since she can emulate her townie range perfectly as mafia.

 

[LaserGuy]

That's it for me for tonight. I will try to keep tabs on the thread throughout the day tomorrow, but I will probably only have time for quick replies now and then.

 

[Wam]

@bessieif you have any questions for me I should be around for 2 to 3 hours.

 

[Wam]

bessie

Stupid formatting

 

[Wam]

Been through both bessies ISO's they make sense to me. To me it looks pretty even,

 

[Wam]

I realise the post above looks wierd. I'm kind of lost I know it's not bessie 100% now as she didnt hammer. So I know it must be laser but I dont know how to convince bessie. And its driving me mad.

 

[bessie]

I didn't vote because it was lylo and I was hesitating and doubting myself. I put the extension request in there so that we wouldnt hit deadline if I didnt make it back.

Yeah but Wam if you weren’t going to make it back you would have ended the day with no vote so this reason doesn’t make any sense.

There maybe a spectator thread?

It’s not the same, the unique dynamic of the Gojoe thread really gave me late game energy! Zen tried something similar with his Oasis Mafia, and he had a public spectator thread; you can read through it didn’t really catch on, I think there was some completely understandable distrust, so to speak.

Note for xkcders: I have a lot of Gojoe archived too I will try to break it up into convenient groupings and add it to my list of stuff to work on and post.

It's a compliment to your hypothetical perfect scum game. I'm just glad I got at least one read right this game.

Is this a TOWN CLAIM?????

@bessieif you have any questions for me I should be around for 2 to 3 hours.

Wam, I just got home. Don’t worry about it, I really doubt anything posted going forward is going to influence me, you can leave an extension request open if you want but I’m going to try to wrap this up if I can. Everyone in this game really played well and I totally hate one of you for not killing me last night.

 

[Wam]

Yeah but Wam if you weren’t going to make it back you would have ended the day with no vote so this reason doesn’t make any sense.



It’s not the same, the unique dynamic of the Gojoe thread really gave me late game energy! Zen tried something similar with his Oasis Mafia, and he had a public spectator thread; you can read through it didn’t really catch on, I think there was some completely understandable distrust, so to speak.

Note for xkcders: I have a lot of Gojoe archived too I will try to break it up into convenient groupings and add it to my list of stuff to work on and post.


Is this a TOWN CLAIM?????


Wam, I just got home. Don’t worry about it, I really doubt anything posted going forward is going to influence me, you can leave an extension request open if you want but I’m going to try to wrap this up if I can. Everyone in this game really played well and I totally hate one of you for not killing me last night.

I just trusted you would vote for an extension if I didnt make it back. I dont think you would want to win as scum by hitting a deadline.

 

[bessie]

somitomi

#78: Opens with two jokes referencing the previous game and a very somitomi-ish comment to Eido. +1
#192: Another somitomi-ish comment, this one to Wam, but I don’t feel this is as natural as the previous comment is more like an attempt to create active lurking content, possibly Wam specific. This is followed by two more Wam replies, one of which is kinda valid, one of which is more active lurking. -1
Hmm, would Hari also assign Wam a scum point for this post?
#193: EBWOP bessie shroop. I don’t read anything in to the shroop, but the question is borderline active lurking. -1
#224: Reply to my LAMIST comment, I asked him to think about it but somi never did come back to this. -1
Reply to Wam, I think somi is genuinely busy. Also need to look at this post because Wam flagged it. +0
#277: Second shroop, and a somi-ish meme referencing the first shroop. +1
Replies to a question from LaserGuy, which totally misinterprets my intent with the points. Could this be a buddy post? -1
#278: EBWOP. I don’t like this response but I don’t necessarily see it as scummy just because I disagree. +0
#297: Ordered list with reads. +1
This post has already been overanalyzed, and I don’t do the type of analysis that could add anything to the discussion.
#369: Reply to fonti’s yeet questions, votes Swiss and gives reasons (following fonti’s swiss vote but preceding her case). Snarky reply to me. +1
#394: Eager to see fonti’s Swiss case (note that somitomi was voting for Swiss before fonti said she was working on a case). +0

#518: Who is this post replying to? There are over a hundred posts since somi’s previous post.

Crap.
I'm kind of in the same boat though, Swiss's return is giving me mixed signals. His tone feels genuine, but gettin Maven to claim while thinking he could be a PR is kind of scummy. I know it's pretty late for this, but I do think we should be considering how much information the flip gives town, this is why I was against pushing Maven off today.

Is it Wam’s #398?

I dont have time to check the case tbh before end.of day. I'm going to stick to my swiss town read and re assess day 2. I'm leaving my vote where it is.

Or is it LaserGuy’s #405?

^
I can't say I really trust fonti at all, but Swiss is reading super scummy in this exchange.

Will think on this. I'll be back closer to deadline.

These are the only two posts from any player that I can see that might be the post to which somi is replying, so this is unfortunate.
#521: VT claim.

I just want to take this opportunity to say that somitomi is very underrated as a player. His content was kinda lacking this game but he didn’t leave anything that ties him to a single partner, there’s an argument to be made for ties to at least four players. I know Swiss will be disagreeing with me but I think Swiss's case was more based on LaserGuy's posts, not somitomi's. Need to reread Swiss to check.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v4.3

Wam (1): Laserguy
Laserguy (1): Wam

Not Voting (1): Bessie

With 3 players remaining, it takes two votes to eliminate.

Deadline is in approximately just under 6.5 hours.

None of the three players have requested a third 24 hour extension. Unanimous consent before the expiration of the current deadline is required before an extension will be granted.

A maximum of one (1) more extension may be stipulated to.

 

[bessie]

LaserGuy
Isolated content score: +23 -10 => +13
Overall vibe score: ?

Wam
Isolated content score: +25 -13 => +12
Overall vibe score: ?

Ok well that was totally unhelpful.

Some thoughts I had before adding up the totals.
1. Laser is probably going to end up with more points from me because out styles are similar and I follow his thought process and understand his reasoning. I award points where I agree with the process in a post even when I do not agree with the content.
2. Wam is going to end up with less points because he and I do not approach the game the same way, and I do not always follow his thought process even if I agree with his results.

So I kinda feel this is slightly in Wam's favor because the scores are so close.

Sabrar you already know where I will end up don't you, even if I don't know it yet?

 

[bessie]

I totally messed up in #1186 in my somitomi vote analysis. I realized it about an hour after I made that post but I thought I would just wait and see who pointed it out. WHY DIDN'T ANYONE POINT IT OUT???

 

[Wam]

I totally messed up in #1186 in my somitomi vote analysis. I realized it about an hour after I made that post but I thought I would just wait and see who pointed it out. WHY DIDN'T ANYONE POINT IT OUT???

I'm still not 100% what you think you messed up? I'm assuming you are talking about having yourself in yellow?

 

[bessie]

I'm still not 100% what you think you messed up? I'm assuming you are talking about having yourself in yellow?

It was supposed to be a snarky remark to you, that you occupied the same location in somi’s scum list in this game that Frozen occupied in Completely Vanilla. But I was tired and trying to get some content up because deadline and I didn’t notice that the orders were reversed.

Why didn’t you respond to my snarkiness and overall annoying demeanor in that post before this?

 

[Wam]

It was supposed to be a snarky remark to you, that you occupied the same location in somi’s scum list in this game that Frozen occupied in Completely Vanilla. But I was tired and trying to get some content up because deadline and I didn’t notice that the orders were reversed.

Why didn’t you respond to my snarkiness and overall annoying demeanor in that post before this?

Because it didnt come across any more snarky than other comments you have made.

 

[bessie]

D3 reread, some things I noted.

Shooting Maven tells me the mafioso wanted to remove a sure town, and not reduce the 'lynch pool'.

Which means they think they're in the lynch pool.

I realize what Swiss was trying to say with this post; I’m not convinced that it excludes Wam though. Note that LaserGuy comments on this also in #877, but he disagrees with a different point.

Mmm, **** it, I'll commit to this early.

I think Laser is town.

Noting this for reference if needed later.

Wam is strong townlean, have had 0 sus on him and frankly if he was scum I just know I'd have him. Town.

Laser is a scumread. Was scummy, didn't like his interactions. Spider in the web. Like his recent posts.

*Maven not dying N1 is an experienced scum shooter imo. Less likely to be Wam.

In #883 Swiss gives gut reasons for Wam town and Laser scum. However, note that Swiss’s town read of Wam is influenced by his belief Wam is a newbie.

I hated this on my re-read before.

The way he quotes his reasoning to unvote, saying he can't read Somi well.

It's too careful

I still dislike this from Swiss. Laser’s RVS vote and unvote is totally NAI. If LaserGuy is scum, it's not for this reason.

Fonts right this is super townie

Swiss on LaserGuy, noting this.

I could definitely craft a case against Wam if I wanted to, actually.

This post kinda sums up why I don’t trust fonti’s reads. I feel like fonti starts with the result, then builds a case. Which, while I recognize that is how some people play, I don't agree with (and have argued with Sabrar about in the past, but I have argued about everything with Sabrar in the past).

This was to wam.

Remember

Swiss makes note of somi/Wam exchange in #192.

It's ****ing Wam you guys.

fonti thinks it’s Wam. Was this serious? It’s in a spoiler.

Why does it matter as a VT Wam?

Noting this because.

Class your homework is to re-read posts #710 to #720.

Read it again. Still don't see it.

I'm going to be furious if I've spent two days tunneling to be wrong.

Is this why Swiss wants it to be Laser, because he doesn’t want to be wrong??

This is the kind of thing that screams scum in a vacuum, but I've seen it from town!Wam before and the thought process behind it feels towny for him. He doesn't share a lot of his progression, so the assumption that Somi is scum is something town him was just working on in the background.

Interesting reasoning on Wam by fonti.

Anyway, I think it's Laser.

That said, I do think it's Laser.

fonti thinks its Laser now.

Today's yeet comes down to Wam's decision. And if he decides to yeet me, then the best I can do is offer my scumread on Laser and wish you all luck Tomorrow. And ping bessie that if she clears Laser Tomorrow and is wrong, I will be really disappointed.

Just noting that I dislike this post more every time I read it. More on this to come.

I would like to address this. Please take it to heart after my flip. I don't have a problem with your volume, and when I'm talking about people not doing things, I'm not talking about the number of posts or words. I'm looking whether people are trying to progress the game. When I say Laser has done very little, I don't care about the words posted by themselves, he's posted a fair number of words. I care that he has had no progression and has not helped. He had two major townreads, you and Eido. You, I think and hope, are an easy townread this game. Laser's townread on you has very little effect on you not being up for yeet, that comes from your content. And he turned on Eido at a point where maintaining his strong townread would have been very helpful. Laser's only scumread has been on me, and it is wrong. Laser is doing nothing, because nothing he's done has mattered in a positive way over three game Days, and I think town!Laser is better than that.

If you're in final 3, and I think you will be if Laser is scum, then I ask that you keep this is in mind.

I still dislike this post too. And that fonti doubles down in #1113. Fonti claims her case on LaserGuy is based on him not progressing the game and has nothing to do with content volume. But that’s not entirely true. It’s the same thing I have to keep defending myself from, in like every game. I think that LaserGuy and I have a different style from what others on this forum are used to and we are being judged against a standard that we shouldn’t have to conform to. I am trying to keep my feelings on this separate from my read of LaserGuy, but because I have to defend myself continuously from the same accusations it is making me lump myself and LaserGuy together in my mind.

I would feel better if I can get some confirmation from Bessie that she understands why I think it's Laser and that she'll keep it in mind, because if Laser is the wolf, I think Bessie voting wrong is how we lose.

And this is overall just wrong, and kinda offensive. If town loses, it is because mafia played well, and town didn't play as well as mafia. It is not my fault and it is unfair of you to pre-emptively put the blame for a town loss on me.

I cannot fathom how people can reread these interactions and not come to the same conclusion.

Maybe you should try to understand why people don't see things the way you see them, then perhaps you could explain better to others why you see things the way you do. Because I still do not understand your Laser scum read.


More later.

 

[bessie]

Because it didnt come across any more snarky than other comments you have made.

Why are there so many people viewing the thread? Is it because of me me me???

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v4.4

Wam (1): Laserguy
Laserguy (1): Wam

Not Voting (1): Bessie

With 3 players remaining, it takes two votes to eliminate.


There is less than one (1) hour until the deadline.

None of the three players have requested a third 24 hour extension. Unanimous consent before the expiration of the current deadline is required before an extension will be granted.

A maximum of one (1) more extension may be stipulated to.

 

[bessie]

I'm writing my final post now. LaserGuy you have about 10 minutes if you have anything you want to post.

 

[LaserGuy]

I trust your judgement. Good luck.

 

[bessie]

Well all right I guess it’s just me.
[Pre post edit: hey LaserGuy thanks for showing up, doesn't change anything in this post though.]

LaserGuy and Wam both played spectacularly. I don’t mind losing to either of them.

I went in to D4 intending to do some due diligence and reevaluate. The discussion at the end of D3 was going in the direction of yeet fonti and Laser for a win. Both fonti and Swiss, two excellent players, were scum reading Laser at end of day, and Swiss had been correct on his other reads in this game. I owe it to my team to consider their views in my reread. However, I also feel it is important to consider my own evaluations. And upon my reread, I just do not see the case against LaserGuy. I know my view is affected by two things: (1) Laser and I have similar thought processes that I can easily follow and understand, and (2) I feel that Laser and I have been attacked for similar things that I don’t believe are valid. I’ve already acknowledged both these things are perhaps influencing me erroneously, but nonetheless they still are.

In rereading somitomi [refer to my #1215], I can see a case for Wam. #192 somi’s questions to Wam feel like it could be scum trying to interact with their partner, but so does #277 with Laser. I have been thinking much of the day about #518, and I feel like it is most likely a response to Wam, which makes me feel somi is replying to his partner’s post. I’m not really great at this type of read, and I’m historically terrible in the final three, which is probably why I’m here now because both of these guys know it, so whatever.


Anyway, sorry Swiss if you’re disappointed in the way the game played out. But I am not at all sorry if anyone is disappointed in me.



Vote: Wam



YOLO

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v4.5 (FINAL DAY 4 VOTE COUNT)

Wam (2): Laserguy, Bessie
Laserguy (1): Wam

Wam has been eliminated by majority vote, he flips Vanilla Town.

Bessie, Vanilla Town, is eliminated in endgame.

Laserguy (Mafia Rolecop) and Somitomi (Mafia Goon) win!

 

[LaserGuy]

Good game all! Wow, that was a nailbiter.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Im not home right now, will get a post with thoughts up later, but thank you all so much for playing! I hope you all enjoyed the game as much as I enjoyed getting to watch! And congratulations to Somitomi and Laserguy on a tenacious victory!

 

[Xivii]

Wow haha, I thought it was Wam for sure. Awesome job, LaserGuy.

 

[fontisian]

I feel ... irritated with how this game went. I think my voice did not matter, and that's not something I'm used to.

 

[bessie]

Congrats LaserGuy and somitomi!

Wam, you played well. Sorry you had to go through the final day with me!


Shout outs later, I have been working on this all day already.

 

[fontisian]

Ultimately, I think this is a small game issue with the double kill. Laser got an unusual amount of control of which people were with him in the endgame, with him being able to kill half of the town. Combine that with the two tunneled players (me and Eido) being correct on him, and Laser was in a position where he was able to survive despite being suspected by every single person except for Bessie.

 

[Xivii]

I feel ... irritated with how this game went. I think my voice did not matter, and that's not something I'm used to.

You wrecked your credibility early on with inaccurate overconfidence, it's happened to me often:

It's obviously Eido:

Look.

If Eido is not scum, I swear upon my honor as a font that I will allow myself to be yeeted without fighting it Tomorrow. In the event of that happening I will ask for part of the Day to look for scum and firm up reads. That's it. I am that certain Eido will end the game.

I really do not think it's Laser. He has a lot of reasons to be worried about me being scum and I do not blame him for that. I think him keeping his vote on me at eod and not really interacting with the somi wagon is completely within his town meta when he's sure he's on scum. Laser being wrong does not make him scum.

I'm going to level with you guys.

I think this is a slamdunk case. Eido is 99% the last scum and we should kill him Today. If you all run up Laser, I will not move my vote to maj him, even if that means I get yeeted.

 

[fontisian]

You wrecked your credibility early on with inaccurate overconfidence, it's happened to me often:

Xivii.

Don't.

 

[Xivii]

Don't what?

 

[fontisian]

Don't what?

Be an ass.

 

[Xivii]

Be an ass.

Genuinely not trying to be, just explaining why your Laser read wasn't listened to. BoomFrog knows. You have a limited about of influence credit for every yeet you get right. There wasn't really a reason for people to listen to you about Laser when you were willing to bet the game on an Eido elim and ended up being incorrect.

 

[Xivii]

Also, if fonti is scum, wam is probably the buddy.

LaserGuy I really hate that you make this post as scum. There's no way I'm ever going to be able to read you properly. And this is why Apex happens...