Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[fontisian]

Quick summary because we shouldn’t all assume everyone knows everyone’s history.
xkcd – bessie, LaserGuy, Sabrar, somitomi, Wam
Dgames – FrozenFlame, Gorf, Maven, Swiss, Eido (newbie)
MTGS – fontisian

I don’t think that anyone is necessarily missing anything. It’s still relatively early in the game and we’re in our information gathering stage. +0


Yeah I can be dense when it comes to jokes; no one gets mine, and others often go over my head. Perhaps the dashes would have made it clearer. +0

We probably did discuss this before and I forgot about it; my encyclopedic memory for old mafia games seems to have been something distinctive to xkcd and has not carried over as well to this site. Restoring a point. +1

Noted. +0

Ok. @Eido , can you react to #201 and confirm that those are your thoughts?

In my daily catchup posts, I am looking at the trees, as I have explained multiple times. On weekdays I don’t have time to appreciate the beauty of the forest. And if it looks like I am being more nitpicky with Eido, it is because I have found more to nitpick from Eido. -1

I think it is important that none of us lose sight that this is why we are here. +0

Original request for reference #210:
Refer to this post (from the most recent game on this forum) where LaserGuy is referring to my opening, you can read through the thread a bit I think LaserGuy explains this later.

I could find some more examples from this forum (as town and as scum) but the games are long and the search feature not very good. Also, as stated before, I don’t seem to have the same recall I used to have.

There are some not too old games in the xkcd game archive, see this post for a link to some old games I reconstructed from google cache. I would recommend Brooklyn 99 Mafia, please refer to Zenii’s reply on the bottom of Page 5 to my OP. It is also the easiest in format to read (it’s the only game I had in screenshots). If you want an amusing read, I would recommend Newbie New Year for the interaction between BoomFrog and Hari Seldon. It’s also a good example the classic bessie/LaserGuy conflict.

Side note, you have no idea how deeply it pains me not to be able to give you some more recent examples from xkcd, but the most recent mostly archived game in the Wayback Machine is from 2017. It is a favorite of mine if you want to skim it, I am town.

I don’t know that Eido is town, why would you expect me to have this point of view? +0

Overall good content post. +1


#237 Valid response by fonti to LaserGuy. +1


If there’s one thing I find more suspicious than LAMIST posts, it’s “would I do that as scum” posts. -1


It just feels more like you’re trying to manage everyone’s perceptions, not expectations. -1


Eido if time management is an issue, why are you bothering with old games? Quit trying to figure people out by comparing them to past performance, looking for magic meta tells. I sometimes use meta in my reads, but it’s with people I know and have been playing with for a while (and I can link to a post that is clear in my memory without hours of searching). And even then I feel meta reads are very unreliable especially with experienced players. And I never use a scum or town tell as a basis for a read because I find magic tells are more often wrong then right (reference Newbie New Year Mafia). -1

I’ve only known three players that possess the magic gift, and none of them are in this game. Though I kinda wonder about fonti.


I kinda liked this post at first, but what ruined it was Eido using the excuse that he didn’t have a recent Gorf scum game to compare and using that as a hedge for a wrong read. +1-1


Hahaha I don’t need to use any of Gorf’s observations as a basis for making a read. All my content is based on my own independent thoughts and I have been transparent about my methods. -1

I’ve explained this. I’m in my information gathering stage. I do not have time on weekdays to make comprehensive analysis of the thread content as a whole. And I’ve also explained how my point system is skewed and why. What makes you think you look extremely bad to me and why? You’re projecting a thought you think I have, and it is telling. -1

Just because Gorf and Swiss are thinking something, why would that influence me from making a objective read? +0

I don’t vote “early and often”. This is very well documented (I won’t pull out any of a dozen references because it is a dead end for you to read a dozen old games just to confirm this), but this is easily confirmable by many other players in this game, and it is NAI. +0

LaserGuy @Sabrar Wam @somitomi fontisian Can at least two of you confirm this (two being the minimum number needed so that at least one of them is not a possible partner of scum!me)?

You’re again hmm forgetting what I have previously explained about my point system, refer to #195 and #231 . +0

In my daily readthrough, I haven’t found much in Wam’s content that I have noted. Why should I be forcing reads? -1


Really I think you should concentrate on content in this game. +0


I agree with this. +1


#252 This is a much better post from Eido than what he has been doing. +1


What you can do about it is you can answer them. And I haven’t asked you very many. Can you answer just the questions in #102 and I withdraw any questions in #195. And please answer the questions in this post. +0


Not from a new player, with little meta info on the other players, that has to read games he didn’t play to get meta information. -1


Agree completely. +1


As I went in to a little already in this post, the daily catchup is a bunch of small points and I haven’t really been forming overall comprehensive analysis in my mind yet. But I think that this is a good suggestion, and I’ll work on maybe doing a separate summary of points. I’ve just been a bit overwhelmed this week. I also tried to trim the quotes a bit more in this post. +0


Eido -14-4 => -18
Fontisian -8+0 => -8
Gorf +3+2 => +5
LaserGuy +1+0 => +1
Maven89 +1+0 => +1
Sabrar +4+0 => +4
Somitomi 0+0 => 0
Swiss +2+0 => +2
Wam -2+0 => -2

Bessie town, etc.

 

[Swiss]

you ever just get a vibe and find the best words for it later than you first said it? Like, it was pg 1, it was the end of rvs. I think you’re being disingenuous in how you’re understanding my read on eido. I’m not gonna claim it’s ai, it can be something simple like bias because I got a scumread from it and you got a townread.

Hello

 

[fontisian]

*****, I have been going out my way to shut down bad yeets. Eido is drowning under pressure? I townread him. People are starting to turn on Gorf? Townread for him too. Eido and Gorf are still fighting? I try to give them a framework so they can get to better reads on each other. Wam's an easy misyeet pretty much every game? Sure, I'll share a townread there too. I'm not really townreading Eido that much but he's still getting an overwhelming number of questions, some of which are pointless? I'll volley the pointless ones for him and try to give him a little bit of breathing room. I don't talk about my suspicions as they build until I need to flesh out my views to keep my own position viable, because the extra pressure on Eido won't be helpful. You're hard townreading Eido, you should be seeing how much I have adjusted to help town!him dig his way out of this.

I'm not attacking or defending Somi, who has a high chance of ending up as the yeet Today if Eido recovers because I want to see what he'll do. I'm no defending Maven because my read on him is going to depend on what /he chooses to do/ when he comes back. The places they go and how they use their time will let me read them, and interfering now, when I want to see what they choose, how they spend their limited time the thread. The notes they don't play.

Town!you has understood this in the past, you got that I defend people in proportion to my townreads on them and to the extent I think is useful. You got that I give people rope to either defend on hang themselves with.

Spoiler

It's ****ing Wam you guys.

This paragraph is very weird to me. Far too confident in knowing what are good and bad yeets .

I colored the paragraph Wam quoted. I think it's notable that he started responding negatively to me just after I started talking about how I thought we'd probably end up yeeting Somi.

 

[fontisian]

I was actually surprised by how strong it appears to be. I know bessie's the kind to tunnel, but in my recollection she's usually ... friendlier towards new players, at least on D1 so Eido being her only strong read either way is odd.

I don't think this is something Somi comments on if he's scum with Bessie. Feels like a real thought where he's wondering why town!Bessie is being kind of mean to Eido.

 

[Swiss]

Wam I'm looking at somi as the likely yeet, yeah. Maybe Maven, though he's had a bit of towny tone.

Because, uh, when in doubt, yeet a lurker.

The shroop thing is half a joke, half real. I'm leaning more towards Bessie being town now, though, so let's call it three quarters a joke.

The reason shroops catch partners is that scum are more likely to edit and overthink paragraphs about their scummates. And when they make a post and half a sentence in the middle is missing, that means they were writing the post out of order (unusual, outside of long quote walls) and struggling with that section. Tl:dr, i's an odds thing, not a guaranteed catch.

@bessie, the reason I wasn't on board with Laser's engagement readon you wasn't that I doubted the validity of reading you off your interest in the game, but rather that you hadn't seemed that interested to me. Now you definitely do.

LaserGuy , fair, I forgot your Xivii tunnel in Apex. I was a bit concerned abouthiw you easily townread me there and aren't able to get there here, but looking over it, I was being more agressive there. I'm also conflating games I where I was reading along with games I was in, I think. Anyway, we're cool.

Townie lean

 

[fontisian]

Then who?

Remeber we have to hammer.


I had a similar thought.



Was this genuine? Seems to have been overlooked. Also bessie seemed to not react as much as I would expect from town bessie...

But for now game seems to be slowing down so let's

Vote somitomi

When in doubt lynch a lurker.

Wam's vote on Somi, it's the first one. Comes after me saying I think we'll yeet him, Laser questioning Somi, Sabrar saying;

@somitomi Who is your strongest town- and scum-read and why?

Also comes after me saying we are no yeeting Eido, and Eido posting a lot of good content.

I have no idea if this is a bus or not. Like, it works, I guess, placement wise but this is also a really bad setup for bussing. I don't know.

 

[Wam]

Wow lot of content. Sorry been dealing with a lot of family stuff tonight. I have plenty of time tomorrow so will respond then.

 

[fontisian]

How did you choose between somi and Maven?

Maven had RL reasons

@bessie I think your more likely to want to change your scum meta rather than your town one. However a its not a string signal because I can see you trying the change as town 1st.

I guess this is good?

Shrug emoji.

 

[Swiss]

Reads:

bessie:

Her interest and engagement levels in the game strike me as Town bessie. I've talked about this already, but bessie tends to struggle a lot to come up with good content as mafia and often comes across as uninterested in the game. I don't get that impression from her here.

I spent some time thinking about whether scum!bessie would attempt to use something like the point system to distract from her scum play, and, on balance, I think this is unlikely. Likely Town.


Eido:

He pinged Town early for me and not a lot has changed here. I understand there is a level of weirdness in his play, but I think his process is very genuine.


Swiss:

I liked his opening and early Eido push, and there were several posts during this sequence that pinged Town. His progression on Eido from scum to newbie Town feels quite natural. I find it townie that he admits his read confidence has gone down as the day has gone on (#109-#207), though this is somewhat tempered by the fact that I don't really feel like his recent posting has shown an uptick in engagement or scumhunting to try to resolve this. Putting him at Town lean.


wam:

I have a recollection that scum!Wam is often read as Town and Town!Wam is often read as scum, so the fact that, on balance, I like Wam's content this game, is putting me on edge a little bit. I have some particular concerns related to Wam/fonti that I will discuss in my fonti read (pedit: having done my fonti review, I'm less sure of this connection anyway). I do think that the persistent tunnel on Eido is more consistent with Town!wam, though. Independently of fonti I'm going to put him at Town lean.


somitomi:

A lot of the same problems as Maven, just lacking in content overall, though this is NAI for somitomi just as it is for Maven. I get vaguely townie vibes based on tone and his reads in #297, though thin, are very non-consensusy and do show some original thought, which is promising. I'd go with nullTown here.


Gorf:

On review, I think my opinion of Gorf has improved somewhat. I still don't like the push on Eido, which sort of tempers my enthusiasm for the slot overall since a lot of his content is focused there, but he seems to be processing in a natural way and I feel his reconsideration of Eido in #256 looks good. I'll put him at nullTown.


Maven89:

Hard null. I feel like almost every game I've played with Maven has kind of gone this way. I think he is a poor yeet at present given that if he flips Town it is doesn't give us much in the way of info beyond sorting the slot, but I can understand the reasoning behind it.


Sabrar:

The last few Town games I've played with Sabrar he's come out tonally very townie and has been fairly active. I feel like in this game he is much more conflict adverse and low key and that's raising some red flags. I have liked a lot of the questions he's been asking, but I don't feel that is strongly alignment indicative for Sabrar. Leaning scum.


fonti:

In the previous games where I have played with Town!fonti, her analysis has been very, specific, detailed, and disturbingly accurate. I want to highlight a couple of posts from early in Midnight OPS showing her process: here, here, here, and especially here. She is very candid with her assessments of players, and is rapidly moving toward forming a very solid Towncore that is pretty much unshakeable from her POV for the entire game. We see a similar progression in Apex mafia, both with her Townreads, (here, here, here, here) and here scumreads (here, here, here). This isn't intended to be exhaustive, merely representative. The important point is that she is actively moving towards forming a towncore and that her townreads tend to be strong and difficult to shake.

This is in large part what I've seen lacking in her play so far this game. She isn't trying to move Town together toward a solve, and her reads reflect that. In fact, her #238 seems to suggest she's more interested in controlling the narrative of the game than she is in solving. Her read on me in #210 seems clearly intended to be a scum read, but she hedges hard at the end with her tl;dr. There's a similar hedginess in her read on Eido (#86, which she starts out strong and then quickly backpedals. Was there a substantial change in Eido's process that led her to this conclusion? Not really. Eido's play has been pretty consistent, for better or worse. There is a similar example with bessie and somitomi and then backs down quickly.

Her current solve is that we yeet one of the two lowest hanging fruit players and hope for the best and she... doesn't seem bothered by that. Contrast her reads here to Midnight, where she had a very, very clear, correct direction and was willing to go to the mat for it. Ditto in Apex. Both games were Town!fonti. Contrast the very similar ambivalence of scum!fonti in TIL that we observe in this game. fonti is an extremely strong Town player with excellent instincts and aggressively collects her townreads and pushes her scumreads. The milquetoast version of fonti that were are seeing this game is probably scum.

About wam:

Spoiler

This read feels like a buddy read. Note that fonti never follows up with wam about anything, but throws him into the towncore as well. wam, on the other hand, seems very reluctant to talk about fonti at all. Admittedly, I thought there were more weird interactions between them than I noted on reread, so this isn't as solid of a connection as I had thought earlier.

Town
LaserGuy
bessie
Eido
Swiss
wam
somitomi
Gorf
Maven === NULL
Sabrar
fonti
Scum


Or, in fonti's parlance:

I will not yeet: LaserGuy, bessie, Eido Swiss
I would not like to yeet: wam, somitomi, Gorf
I would consider yeeting: Sabrar, Maven
I would like to yeet: fonti

Laser have you ever had an opinion on Bessie that isn't 'so her activity is XXX'

 

[fontisian]

Wow lot of content. Sorry been dealing with a lot of family stuff tonight. I have plenty of time tomorrow so will respond then.

No worries, I don't think I'm voting any time soon.

 

[Swiss]

Then who?

Remeber we have to hammer.


I had a similar thought.



Was this genuine? Seems to have been overlooked. Also bessie seemed to not react as much as I would expect from town bessie...

But for now game seems to be slowing down so let's

Vote somitomi

When in doubt lynch a lurker.

Very townie

No credit for the lynch

 

[fontisian]

I will not yeet:
I would not like to yeet: bessie, fonti, Gorf, Swiss
I would consider yeeting: LaserGuy, wam
I would like to yeet: Eido, Maven, somi

Sabrar list, again looks bad for Laser and Wam.

 

[fontisian]

Very townie

No credit for the lynch

You mean he's not parading around how this is his push etc, yeah? I kind of disagree, on the grounds that I don't think scum!Wam actually wants to yeet somi here, he just doesn't want to be left out if Somi does get yeeted, and people were starting to lean that way.

 

[Swiss]

@mod are we getting flips at start or end of night.

Why does it matter as a VT Wam?

 

[Swiss]

Going forward on the above we need to be careful that we have enough votes to get a hammer in. It's no good having votes split across lots of people with the respective players asleep.

Same post but I can see this coming from a scum

 

[fontisian]

Well, I had less time for this game over the weekend than anticipated, so here are some weakly ordered impressions:
YEAH
Maven - didn't post much, but us lurkers have to stick together.
Sabrar - has been asking pertinent questions, although he seems to have taken the backseat this game a little.
Fontisian - like how they've been trying to help sort the Gorf v. Eido debate out. The absolute confidence they show rubs me up the wrong way, but I couldn't read Xivii at all because of this.
LaserGuy - seems to engage with everyone and think about the responses.
Bessie - feels like her town self, although I think some of her points on Eido are nitpicky even for a bessie tunnel.
Eido - I get like 90% newbie town vibes here, they've been fairly open about their opinions and don't seem to be afraid from drawing attention. Dismissing the possibility of a quickhammer is weird coming from a fairly new player though.
Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.
Gorf - has been focusing on Eido and saying very little about anyone else, which just feels off to me. On the other hand, that'd be kind of risky for mafia to do
Swiss - spent most of his time on Eido as well, and the non-committal reads list at the end of #207 pings me a little.
BOO
Ninja'd by the entire observable universe

Somi's teammate is probably pushing him to post more, hence the first sentence.

Hard to get a lot out of this with Somi being so low content. I can see the Bessie thing as not being a scummate read, but that just lines up with what I already think anyway. I do think the Laser read would be kind of weird to give to a scummate. I also think the whole "Wam feels scummy, but that's normal, so null" is weird because it's the only one where Somi talks about like adjusting the read because of meta or whatever, not just x town reasons, caveat y scum reasons.

 

[Swiss]

LaserGuy , I'm not sure why you think these reads are noncensusy? Keep in mind I don't think Somi was fully caught up when he posted them.

I'm assuming the Maven read is a joke. Sabrar and Bessie are consensusy townreads. The rest of the reads are built up on not liking the Eido push,. You and I defended Eido, so we're at the top. Wam, Gorf and Swiss attacked Eido, so they're at the bottom. It's very one-dimensional. Is that normal for town!Somi?

Font thoughts on this?

 

[fontisian]

I didnt say you were 100% I was speculating as your last scum game you got caught on meta.

However this reaction is far more likely to come from town bessie.

Fonts questions

I will not yeet: Sabrar, swiss
I would not like to yeet: laser, bessie,
I am ambivalent about yeeting: maven gorf
I would consider yeeting: font
I would like to yeet: somitomi, eido

This below from font is a good push on somi.





I'm on my phone so.cant easily check but didnt scum font do something similar?

Weirdly focused on me pushing somi. Idk, it's strange, because Eido is his other strong scumread, and I talked about Eido a lot more than I talked about Somi, but Wam didn't really seem interested in that, he just accepted that I wasn't going to let Eido get yeeted and moved on to Somi. But he still has a strong scumread on Eido. It's weird.

At this point I think I should share that I hard tunneled Wam in my last towngame with him, and I really do not want to do that here.

 

[fontisian]

Font thoughts on this?

When I get there. I'm taking a break for a bit.

 

[fontisian]

I lied, I do want to respond.

Swiss, when Laser and I talked about that D2, I think he genuinely thought I was my townlean on Somi came from him and Sabrar townreading that bit. I feel like if he was scum with Somi he would have interpreted my notes about Somi in a more accurate, negative light,

 

[fontisian]

I will not yeet: Gorf sabrar
I would not like to yeet: Swiss fonti laser Bessie
I would consider yeeting: wam eido maven
I would like to yeet: somi

vote: somitomi

Gorf list, looks bad for Wam.

 

[Swiss]

This post mostly for me

wam and Swiss both look like pretty solid clears from that wagon.

I feel like fonti pushing Swiss wagon was a last-ditch effort to push away from somi after Maven claimed. Still liking this at the moment.

Vote: fonti

What benefit would there be for scum!me to tip my hand that I know Sabrar is a PR?

Sabrar tends to be low energy as scum and more invested in the game as Town (similar to bessie, though less extreme in either direction), and that's what I was looking at.

I give my word Laser goes toMorrow

I just want to acknowledge the time and effort bessie put into making this point. Also, bessie is Town.

#710 to #720

 

[Swiss]

Class your homework is to re-read posts #710 to #720.

I'm back in circa 10 hours

 

[Swiss]

I'm going to be furious if I've spent two days tunneling to be wrong.

 

[fontisian]

It may be unfair for me to say, but I really don't like Laser's willingness to yeet Eido Yesterday. I feel like town!Laser would be more stubborn on his process read, and the somi spew stuff wouldn't completely overrule it.

 

[fontisian]

LaserGuy you described Wam's Eido tunnel as town thing from him. Can you go into more detail on that?

 

[fontisian]

Her current solve is that we yeet one of the two lowest hanging fruit players and hope for the best and she... doesn't seem bothered by that. Contrast her reads here to Midnight, where she had a very, very clear, correct direction and was willing to go to the mat for it. Ditto in Apex. Both games were Town!fonti. Contrast the very similar ambivalence of scum!fonti in TIL that we observe in this game. fonti is an extremely strong Town player with excellent instincts and aggressively collects her townreads and pushes her scumreads. The milquetoast version of fonti that were are seeing this game is probably scum.

Another question for Laser:

Given that I was right to want to yeet in the two lowest hanging fruit players, how does this read change?

 

[fontisian]

Older post but remember this.
Wrong? No.
Scummy post? Maybe

Swiss pulls out the same posts as he's rereading the thread, because the original pings he got from them were genuine.

 

[fontisian]

Eido
When I read Eido’s content, it makes me think of an article fonti linked to a while ago on power wolfing. It’s like in all his content, trying to control the conversation by asking a lot of questions and pushing others for their opinions which would be good but he’s not offering anything of his own. If he was pushing someone, and then replied with “the reason I asked is because I think…” but he doesn’t. It’s questions but not for purpose of solving the game; it’s noise to appear busy. I’m not going to pull out a bunch of quotes, just read through P1 and P2, Eido asks questions but there is no meaningful follow up. Eido needed multiple prods to answer my questions regarding P1 content, which he finally did in #285 . Eido’s P2 is dragged down by space filling requests for old games to use for meta reads.

I really dislike #89 which I’ve previously discussed. It’s like, I feel everything is wrong with it. Eido calls out Gorf for a “bad” scum tell. For something that Eido has never seen happen, but in the same sentence says it’s something that he is sure has happened somewhere. Then reminds us that he’s a newbie and requests validation from @ everyone. Then the request for a past game to compare (or validate his opinion).
Note: in reread, I think I missed something about this, refer to Sabrar’s #187. Why didn’t Eido correct this? See also where Sabrar comes back to this in #254.

Re #118 Eido’s scum pool is entirely built on OMGUS (there’s also another request for an old game). Eido did actually give some reasons in #124 but it has a very much cart before the horse feel.

Have I said before I dislike Eido trying to validate reads by comparing to similar behavior/alignment from old games? (yes see #267) This is such a bad approach for him, but is it scummy? I am leaning yes, because many other players told him this was a bad approach, but he won’t drop it, which makes me thinks he is preemptively planning for a way to explain wrong reads (by using "the method was flawed").

Eido is interested in talking to me about Wam, starting in #244 . Why? I might want to come back to this in the future, depends on how the flips play out.

Even considering everything else, I feel #281 by itself is enough for me to vote for Eido, see my post #289 for explanation why. See also Eido’s #284, which is a response to Sabrar.

-----

somitomi
I get the feeling somitomi is lurking because he is busy, not necessarily because he is mafia. What little content he has posted gives me a townie vibe, but the content in itself doesn’t. Pre post edit, he posted his reads list as I was working on this. I feel that scum!somi would have found a reason to scum read Maven; also he put two generally town-read players at the top of his scum list when he could have gone for Wam. Moving somi to my don’t want to yeet today list.

The Eido read, while wrong, makes a lot of sense from Bessie's pov. I believe that she believes it.

Somi read noted to keep track of how Somi is being viewed in general at this point. I don't think Bessie defends a teammate like this, but I do not have the experience with her to back that up.

 

[fontisian]

somitomi:

A lot of the same problems as Maven, just lacking in content overall, though this is NAI for somitomi just as it is for Maven. I get vaguely townie vibes based on tone and his reads in #297, though thin, are very non-consensusy and do show some original thought, which is promising. I'd go with nullTown here.

-----

Maven89:

Hard null. I feel like almost every game I've played with Maven has kind of gone this way. I think he is a poor yeet at present given that if he flips Town it is doesn't give us much in the way of info beyond sorting the slot, but I can understand the reasoning behind it.


-----

fonti:

In the previous games where I have played with Town!fonti, her analysis has been very, specific, detailed, and disturbingly accurate. I want to highlight a couple of posts from early in Midnight OPS showing her process: here, here, here, and especially here. She is very candid with her assessments of players, and is rapidly moving toward forming a very solid Towncore that is pretty much unshakeable from her POV for the entire game. We see a similar progression in Apex mafia, both with her Townreads, (here, here, here, here) and here scumreads (here, here, here). This isn't intended to be exhaustive, merely representative. The important point is that she is actively moving towards forming a towncore and that her townreads tend to be strong and difficult to shake.

This is in large part what I've seen lacking in her play so far this game. She isn't trying to move Town together toward a solve, and her reads reflect that. In fact, her #238 seems to suggest she's more interested in controlling the narrative of the game than she is in solving. Her read on me in #210 seems clearly intended to be a scum read, but she hedges hard at the end with her tl;dr. There's a similar hedginess in her read on Eido (#86, which she starts out strong and then quickly backpedals. Was there a substantial change in Eido's process that led her to this conclusion? Not really. Eido's play has been pretty consistent, for better or worse. There is a similar example with bessie and somitomi and then backs down quickly.

Her current solve is that we yeet one of the two lowest hanging fruit players and hope for the best and she... doesn't seem bothered by that. Contrast her reads here to Midnight, where she had a very, very clear, correct direction and was willing to go to the mat for it. Ditto in Apex. Both games were Town!fonti. Contrast the very similar ambivalence of scum!fonti in TIL that we observe in this game. fonti is an extremely strong Town player with excellent instincts and aggressively collects her townreads and pushes her scumreads. The milquetoast version of fonti that were are seeing this game is probably scum.

About wam:

Spoiler

This read feels like a buddy read. Note that fonti never follows up with wam about anything, but throws him into the towncore as well. wam, on the other hand, seems very reluctant to talk about fonti at all. Admittedly, I thought there were more weird interactions between them than I noted on reread, so this isn't as solid of a connection as I had thought earlier.

The somi read was likely written after the Maven, then the list was rearranged to be in town to scum order. The comparison to Maven and defense of Somi isn't great, but isn't damning. The read on me isn't as solid as I remembered. I think I was moving town towards a solve (i.e. trying to get Bessie to see Eido as town just before this), but Laser doens't note any of it. His not understanding why my Eido read was dropping as Eido wasn't doing anything could just come from a headspace where he's locked in on Eido being town, so he doesn't get why town!me wouldn't be certain, but that doesn't fit with him being willing to yeet Eido Yesterday.

 

[fontisian]

In what way am I inactive?

By you like font and wam I assume you mean you think were scum together?

I don't actually think this is scummy from Wam (I know Swiss did). I think he just assumes people are going to scumread him, regardless of his alignment.

 

[fontisian]

Thank you for that, Bessie. I disagree on a number of things, but the effort you put is really appreciated.

A quick point regarding my post #94: It was actually an attempt to help Gorf, more than Eido, in an attempt to help him express his read more clearly and focus on the parts that were actually pinging him. It was also the basis for my initial townread on Gorf. There was some intention to help Eido, but only in a reducing confusing kind of way.

@somitomi, question for you. You said Wam was bumped to neutral, so the two below him (Gorf and Swiss) must be your scumreads. You're scumreading both of them for pushing on Eido. But Eido himself is only just above Wam in your readslist, so he's either a neutral read or a very weak townread. Can you explain why both of your scumreads are for them scumreading someone you're not even really townreading?

I also got into questioning Somi just before Laser posted that case, what do you know.

 

[fontisian]

My preference is Maven>somi>Eido.
Both Eido and somi gave me small town-pings which is enough to give them another chance to improve. Maven is (mostly) a random yeet but I cannot see any excuse to keep the slot in the game. I am not comfortable with any of the choices right now.

While Sabrar agreed with Laser on getting small townpings from Somi, Somi was still his second highest choice for the yeet.

 

[fontisian]

We need a hammer and I dont know if @Maven89 is going to be around so we need 6/9 to vote the same way. Assuming we end up with 2 wagons, no one will self hammer and the people involved cross vote we actually need 5/6 to agree. This is not going to be easy as we have 3/4 on european time (me, sabrar, swiss and somi? ) so we dont have much time left.

Wam was pretty focused on making a yeet happen, I'd lean slightly town on it.

 

[fontisian]

I was just wondering if you somi vote was showing you couldnt be a partner. Then doubted that as you bussed hard as scum before. Then you throw that swiss vote in there.

This is the kind of thing that screams scum in a vacuum, but I've seen it from town!Wam before and the thought process behind it feels towny for him. He doesn't share a lot of his progression, so the assumption that Somi is scum is something town him was just working on in the background.

 

[fontisian]

@Sabrar @bessie Both Laser and I are hard townreading Eido and we can't both be wolves with him. We're both good players, please take this as a sign you shouldn't yeet Eido today.

Worth noting that while I was pushing Swiss, I took the extra steps to dismantle the Eido wagon, at a time where it was the main opposing wagon to Somi.

 

[fontisian]

Crikey I have a few inactive days and all of a sudden I'm the wagon. Excellent detective work.

Happy with Wam, Font as town
Eye on Gorf, but probably town.
Eido town

Maven will probably flip scum.

Let me go and re-read my Somi stuff and genuinely cant remember my opinion on them

Vote Maven

Swiss town, lol.

 

[fontisian]

I will not yeet: Sabrar, Fontisian
I would not like to yeet: LaserGuy, bessie
I'm ambivalent about yeeting: wam, Eido, Maven,
I would consider yeeting:
I would like to yeet: Gorf, Swiss

Vote: Swiss


In my recollection you've always been the person to give new players advice in thread, especially if they were struggling and I don't see much of that now. Instead, Eido finds himself under the scrutiny of a bessie tunnel in addition to all the other eyes already on him.
And yeah, I extrapolated from the numbers you provided (and accurately it seems), because sans analysis, they were the best indication of your opinion available.

I'm scumreading Gorf and Swiss for focusing so much of their attention on one person, not for scumreading one of my townreads (although admittedly those reads hinge Eido being town). In general, my reads on D1 are decidedly not consistent insofar as I don't care much if my scumreads all scumread each other, because I don't expect most of it to be right. I just try to evaluate everyone individually and then sort them into a town-mafia gradient, because my reads aren't enough to clear anyone by association.

It's also not a coincidence that Somi's vote followed mine, by the way.

The difference between the way he's going after Bessie and the townread he has on her is a good reason to clear her, imo.

 

[fontisian]

I will be around at deadline, but probably not too much before.



Sabrar more or less expressed the sentiment I felt on somi in his #340.



Sorry, I was still fleshing out my thoughts on fonti at the time. She's a very strong Town player and a very strong wolf. There is very little that I trust to be completely outside of her scum range.



I am very interested to see where this goes.



Why is fonti Town?

Laser's still focused on me as we're closing in on deadline, that's not really unexpected for town!him. I don't the repeat of "she's a very strong town player and a very strong wolf," it seems to come up in a lot of his posts and it's not really saying anything, it's just undermining me. Iirc, Wam communicated basically the same thing Day 2 but his approach felt cleaner.

 

[fontisian]

I'm gonna go to bed sometime and wake up in roughly 8,5 hours at which point I'll have a little time to check in.

Unexpected scum read on Swiss is unexpected, so I'm eagerly awaiting your case.

I agree with Fonti, you can't do any scumhunting as scum if you know the entire setup. Multi-ball is way different and I think it's a lot easier for newbie scum in this regard.

If you need any evidence that Swiss and I are town.