Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Swiss]

No it's fine I think she's town too, but you saying that reminded me of something you said before

 

[fontisian]

Micro reads with minimal reasoning:

Town:
LaserGuy
Swiss - Active, thoughtful, re-evaluating
Eido - Scapegoat
bessie - Townie tone
wam - Townie vibes

somitomi - Null
Maven - Null

Sabrar - Engagement level seems lower than what I've seen recently
fonti - Scum until proven otherwise
Gorf - Discussed elsewhere

I kind of like this.

The scapegoat read on Eido in particular. I think town!Laser is prone to defending townreads who are getting too much pressure, and being emotionally invested in wanted them to have a good time (see Wam in that game where I tunneled him).

The scumreads are all stronger players, not easy misyeets. Not really clearing for someone of Laser's caliber, but still a good look.

 

[fontisian]

No it's fine I think she's town too, but you saying that reminded me of something you said before

Ok?

 

[Swiss]

If I were Font. I'd have wanted to be the main force on the Eido lynch - being so obviously wrong brings sus, but never enough to get lynched.
She's softening up on me, which I want to say NAI.

Maven not dying N2

 

[Swiss]

*Maven not dying N1 is an experienced scum shooter imo. Less likely to be Wam.

 

[Swiss]

Ok?

That was LaserGuy

 

[Swiss]

I kind of like this.

The scapegoat read on Eido in particular. I think town!Laser is prone to defending townreads who are getting too much pressure, and being emotionally invested in wanted them to have a good time (see Wam in that game where I tunneled him).

The scumreads are all stronger players, not easy misyeets. Not really clearing for someone of Laser's caliber, but still a good look.

I like this post also

 

[fontisian]

If I were Font. I'd have wanted to be the main force on the Eido lynch - being so obviously wrong brings sus, but never enough to get lynched.
She's softening up on me, which I want to say NAI.

Maven not dying N2

If I were scum, I would have let Laser die, and then shoot Wam or something (maybe Maven, it depends). That way I end up in final 5 with Bessie (who isn't sure between eido in me), Eido (who is more likely to for Bessie than me), you (who seem to oscillate a lot on your reads) and then Maven (who isn't really doing anything). Would probably be pretty easy to misyeet Eido, since all of Bessie, Wam and Maven were suspicious of him, and he wasn't suspicious of me.

 

[Swiss]

That's what I would say if I were scum.

NAI

 

[fontisian]

*Maven not dying N1 is an experienced scum shooter imo. Less likely to be Wam.

How sure are you on this? Like, to me, using the two kills to shoot for the tracker or jailkeeper instead of confirmed non-threat Maven seems like a no brainer, when that pr can screw me over.

 

[Swiss]

Newbie scum shoot confirmed townies, they just do.

Font you read Eido as town early D1 and took heat off him - when did your opinion change

 

[fontisian]

That's what I would say if I were scum.

NAI

Yeah, I'd say that as scum, but I also wouldn't have done this. Pushing the Eido yeet through puts me in a bad position Today, when scum!me could have done way better. I'm asking you to judge me on my actions, basically.

It's kind of Wifomy, because, like, I can always say that I would have played better as scum, and it's hard to prove either way, but it is true here. Anyway.

 

[Swiss]

Also Bessie has handed out far too many - points not enough + points to be scum.

 

[fontisian]

Newbie scum shoot confirmed townies, they just do.

Font you read Eido as town early D1 and took heat off him - when did your opinion change

It changed a lot during Day 1 (town, **** what if he's scum, town enough that I'm not letting him die), but the biggest change was him voting you with that "Trust in fonti!" post and then somi flipping wolf.

 

[Swiss]

This makes me think swiss is town. Scum swiss probably makes a case up here.

Dislike this but let's say you're town anyway

 

[fontisian]

I meant to say in signups but forgot to say I'm not going to be around much on weekends.



Given gorfs acknowledged out of game issues (no laptop) in things how much do you think the play is comparable?



Because he admitted it was flimsy scum are more incentivised to make something up.

@somitomi can I get a rough idea of where your head is at?

Wam when you get to this, I'm curious about why you pinged Somi out here. Seemed a bit out of left field.

 

[Swiss]

Yeah, you and Eido are talking past each other. He thinks it's just the l-2 thing, because that what you emphasized more originally. I'm guessing you hadn't fully fleshed out what you were thinking about him at the beginning of your case, and you didn't communicate it as well as you could have.

Godfather or genuine town leader?

Remember this

 

[fontisian]

Dude, that's still a stick, just a different one.

Wow, that's a pretty strong read on Eido. I don't disagree with most of your points, but I don't recall you

I think they're pretty inconsequential, so I actually find it kind of strange that bessie assigns negative points to them. What's scummy about saying the default assumption out loud?

So Swiss is happy to lynch, but admits his case would be flimsy and that's town.... how?

Wait, I was doing what? And I didn't even notice? Wow, I'm a mafia god. Seriously though, anyone calling me one of the active players isn't following this game.

QFT, Eido narrowing the scum-pool to those particular players while repeatedly pointing out that the game barely started is some strage logic.
I kind of had the impression that I've seen Eido around here before, but multiple people talk like Eido is new.
@Eido How much mafia experience do you have in general and how much of that is forum mafia?

Somi spew, lots of stuff about Wam.

Aaaaa, it's Wam, lock it in.

This is a joke.

 

[Swiss]

Wam posts a day or so ago about being surprised he's alive and not scumread or some such.

If anyone finds it please quote it

 

[Swiss]

My original impression was that you were concerned that he voted the wagon to L-2 and then didn't follow up on it. But your later posting seems to suggest that he voted the wagon to L-2 and then did too much.



Inside joke from previous game.



Unvote



This reads as newbie Town to me.



He was scum in Things I Like. He replaced out fairly early, though.

I hated this on my re-read before.

The way he quotes his reasoning to unvote, saying he can't read Somi well.

It's too careful

 

[LaserGuy]

Oh, so the somi vote at the start of D1 was a joke about that.

Yes.

Better get re-reading then because toDay is content day.

I do want to talk about Wam with you, since there's decent odds it'll be you and him and either Bessie or Swiss in final 3.

I'll do my reread of Wam at least tonight, then happy to discuss.

*Maven not dying N1 is an experienced scum shooter imo. Less likely to be Wam.

Wam has many more games than I do. He is not a newbie.

 

[Swiss]

Bluntly, how good is Wam? @everyone

 

[Swiss]

Micro reads with minimal reasoning:

Town:
LaserGuy
Swiss - Active, thoughtful, re-evaluating
Eido - Scapegoat
bessie - Townie tone
wam - Townie vibes

somitomi - Null
Maven - Null

Sabrar - Engagement level seems lower than what I've seen recently
fonti - Scum until proven otherwise
Gorf - Discussed elsewhere

Fonts right this is super townie

 

[fontisian]

I could definitely craft a case against Wam if I wanted to, actually.

Like:

Oh god I agree with sabrar again!

The set is just the active players. At this stage scum are more likely to be lurking, quiet and avoiding attention, than leading lynches and hopping on and off wagons.

The players Eido was talking about (who Sabrar and Wam then encouraged him not to look at) were:
Swiss / Gorf
Somitomi / Wam / Maven / Bessie

And Wam's like "that's just active players." And I'm like "Somi, Maven and Bessie aren't active." And Wam said "oh yeah, I forgot Maven wasn't active."

Which. ? Does not compute. Could have been Wam trying to use Sabrar to push pressure away from himself and Somi. Also kind of weird for Wam to dismiss all of Eido's scumreads when he was questioning Somi, which implies he was suspicious of Somi.

This isn't really a strong point.

 

[fontisian]

Bluntly, how good is Wam? @everyone

No ****ing clue, sorry.

 

[fontisian]

Wam's that player where I'm like "well he'll probably get misyeeted in final 5 or something."

Lmao.

 

[Swiss]

For reference, I went through the beginning of Things to refamiliarize myself with Gorf's scum game, then went through the first few pages of Mafia and Werewolves to note how his town game differed, amd finished up with a reread of this thread.

The biggest difference is stiffness, both in demeanor and read fluidity, though some of that in Things can likely be attributed to his early interactions with a partner. Regardless, there's a looseness in his posting here that comes through in his town game and was absent in his scum game.

Dislike

Wants to be seen townhunting with solid reasoning too much.

 

[fontisian]

Dislike

Wants to be seen townhunting with solid reasoning too much.

Bruh.

I had never played with Gorf before, so I wanted people to know my read had a strong basis, that it wasn't just a vague impression from his play.

Also I'm allowed to talk about the work I put in.

 

[Swiss]

I think they're pretty inconsequential, so I actually find it kind of strange that bessie assigns negative points to them. What's scummy about saying the default assumption out loud?

This was to wam.

Remember

 

[Swiss]

Bruh.

I had never played with Gorf before, so I wanted people to know my read had a strong basis, that it wasn't just a vague impression from his play.

Also I'm allowed to talk about the work I put in.

Yeah you are, but I'll still read off of it.

 

[fontisian]

EBWOP because I forgot to finish this sentence:

Wow, that's a pretty strong read on Eido. I don't disagree with most of your points, but I don't recall you having such a strong scumread so early. Or are the other reads extremely weak?

Am annoyed with myself for not clearing Eido off the wording here. Probably would have been able to with my current understanding of Somi. W/e.

 

[fontisian]

Hey bessie when both of you scumreads flip town, what are you going to do?

 

[Swiss]

I will say Eido feels weirdly stiff.

Scumlean on this

 

[fontisian]

I asked font about the meta read as my memory frm things was that I called gorf scum early and I'm not getting those vibes this game. So im moving gorf to town.

Town
Swiss
Sabrar
Gorf

Scum wise I'm struggling to look past eido.

Somi needs more content.

Font, laser, maven are all still neutral.

Bessie I'm withholding judgement still.

Why does Somi need more content, but not Maven?

This feels like it could be read as a gotcha question. It's not, I think there could be a legit town reason.

 

[LaserGuy]

Bluntly, how good is Wam? @everyone

Most of the Town games I've played with him he tends to be on the edge of being yeeted for a lot of the time. Can't say this happens every game, but that's what comes immediately to mind.

The game that I asked bessie about is one that I recall where he was mafia, but ended up basically universally Townread and ran away with it. He's had other games where he's been yeeted early as mafia too, though. His scum game is inconsistent, but he's had some gems.

 

[Swiss]

Town
Bessie
Wam
Font
Laser
Swiss

 

[fontisian]

It's not townie, I very specifically said I'd consider it null. What's so scummy about simply saying "I'm town"?


Not quite in the game, sadly, I have to read again over the weekend even though I swore I'm gonna stop re-reading the entire thread. At the moment I feel like Eido is the standard new player with a good chance of flipping town and not providing much information, but I've just been burned by this.

Somi tmis, noting this for the next readwall.

First part is a response to Bessie, second part to Wam.

I don't think Bessie is scum at all, but if she was and they were actually caught by that shroop and then we lost to them, I'd die laughing.

 

[Swiss]

If I'm wrong on either of Bessie/Wam then I'm wrong on Wam. But ride or die on both.

 

[fontisian]

If you agree with bessie's points, why are you surprised that this read is weak?



I still don't really get from your explanation why you've decided to do this. I feel like you would have understood the potential difficulties and limitations of this system before you started. Why did you feel the need to adopt another player's (alt's) meta?



I thought it was obvious.



I don't see how me reconsidering an early ping based on additional content is a bad thing. As it is, when Eido actually provided his explanation for why he felt this information was necessary, that's when I decided he was probably just Town.



I am suspicious of the fact that he claimed he was scumreading Eido for one thing, then retrospectively built his case to be about something different when questioned about it.



I didn't really expect you to see it, but I have played many more games with bessie than you have so this is not surprising. On the other hand, I am suspicious of that your immediate inclination is to assign scum-motivation to me making tone/gut/meta reads based on little information, since this is something I do all the time, and I feel like we have played enough together that you should be aware of this is how I like to play.

On balance, your analysis so far feels very hedgy to me. Like you're more interested in trying to keep as many options open as you can for yeeting people, rather than actually trying to sort.

Vote: fonti

Note that when Laser went after me, he prodded Somi first. Kind of towny, maybe.

 

[fontisian]

Also, if fonti is scum, wam is probably the buddy.

I also like this, felt like evidence that Laser was privately thinking things through.