Dear Mods and fellow members,

[fallenangemon0]

What this forum really needs is a Sub-Forum for War Stories. Agree?

Also, Why do we even have a strategy pokedex section? Isn't there already an entire website that organizes that information in a much more deep an overall useful format (Smogon)? I'm not trying to nag. I really do appreciate the effort people have put into creating sets for certain pokemon, but lets face it. Most of the sets have identical or similar information on Smogon and to a lesser extent, Serebii. Isn't having a strategy section kinda redundant?

 

[WouW]

What this forum really needs is a Sub-Forum for War Stories. Agree?

Indeed.

Spoiler

*wants to bore everyone the crap out of with a really boring match*

Also, Why do we even have a strategy pokedex section? Isn't there already an entire website that organizes that information in a much more deep an overall useful format (Smogon)? I'm not trying to nag. I really do appreciate the effort people have put into creating sets for certain pokemon, but lets face it. Most of the sets have identical or similar information on Smogon and to a lesser extent, Serebii. Isn't having a strategy section kinda redundant?

I think that it was something like 'we can do it better' - Umbreon once posted a Flareon set in the submissions thread titled 'Smogon's Flareon Sets Suck'.

Now I dunno why I'm still doing this.

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

What this forum really needs is a Sub-Forum for War Stories. Agree?

Also, Why do we even have a strategy pokedex section? Isn't there already an entire website that organizes that information in a much more deep an overall useful format (Smogon)? I'm not trying to nag. I really do appreciate the effort people have put into creating sets for certain pokemon, but lets face it. Most of the sets have identical or similar information on Smogon and to a lesser extent, Serebii. Isn't having a strategy section kinda redundant?

Smogon and Serebii have good strategies in terms of movesets but they're are not the only good movesets out there. Smogon updates its strategy pokedex and some people on the Poke Center forum come up with some movesets of their own. Better yet, they give their own analysis on the pokemon. rofl

 

[zrky]

Were better than smogon!!!!!

Anthony, why do you have to put us down like this
/sarcasm on the second part

 

[fallenangemon0]

Smogon and Serebii have good strategies in terms of movesets but they're are not the only good movesets out there. Smogon updates its strategy pokedex and some people on the Poke Center forum come up with some movesets of their own. Better yet, they give their own analysis on the pokemon. rofl

If by analysis you mean senseless arguments as to why this or that wouldn't/would work, then yes. I posted a good transformer set for smeargle and it just got shunned

 

[zrky]

where did you post it?

 

[fallenangemon0]

It was long ago, but the response was something like:

"PinkReaper already got all the good sets anyways".

 

[AquaTech]

I can't think of a good reason to get rid of a database of movesets. Even if Smogon's is better (which it certainly is), why not keep this one up? At the very least we'll have a few creative movesets not covered in other places.

 

[zrky]

It was long ago, but the response was something like:

"PinkReaper already got all the good sets anyways".

You and reap are about even IMO so don't be disappointed, it's probably because they don't see you here very often....

 

[fallenangemon0]

I can't think of a good reason to get rid of a database of movesets. Even if Smogon's is better (which it certainly is), why not keep this one up? At the very least we'll have a few creative movesets not covered in other places.

Your question answered itself.

"why not keep this one up?" "Smogon's is better (which it certainly is)".

Even though some unique sets have been posted (Kudos on Niiro's Hammer Arm/Gyroball Metagross) very few of them are viable, so I just don't see why it isn't seen as wasted space.

You and reap are about even IMO so don't be disappointed, it's probably because they don't see you here very often....

Bleh. Thats fine then. I'm comfortable enough with my skill level to not care XD

 

[zrky]

Did you see A_man's cacturne? It's easy to take down with swampert, but it can be a beast in UU even OU.

I still need to battle you anthony...

 

[Pink Reaper]

It was long ago, but the response was something like:

"PinkReaper already got all the good sets anyways".

Thats cus I did :D

Transform is a bad move, especially on something that can't take a hit like Smeargle. Your idea of "Trick, Spore, Transform" only works in an extreme few situations, like, when your opponent is stupid. If not they'll just hit you really hard really fast(faster since you tricked a Scarf on them) and you'll be left with a pokemon your opponent knows perfectly how to counter with extremely low health and an Item you didn't even choose. Also, you don't copy scarf boosts when you transform.

 

[fallenangemon0]

Thats cus I did :D

Transform is a bad move, especially on something that can't take a hit like Smeargle. Your idea of "Trick, Spore, Transform" only works in an extreme few situations, like, when your opponent is stupid. If not they'll just hit you really hard really fast(faster since you tricked a Scarf on them) and you'll be left with a pokemon your opponent knows perfectly how to counter with extremely low health and an Item you didn't even choose. Also, you don't copy scarf boosts when you transform.

Thanks for clearing up the scarf boost.

Tricking a scarf can lock a pokemon into a move that would give Smeargle an opening to Transform. You're really giving it no credit at all. Or if you needed to, you could transform into a pokemon with a lower Max HP, or on a switch when they think a Spore is coming. Don't make it sound like it is downright useless, because if it was, I wouldn't win with it.

INB4everyoneyouveeverplayedistrash. (such an idiotic thing to respond with)

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

lol it would be funny if smogon uploaded the movesets people come up with in the forums.

 

[AquaTech]

Your question answered itself.

"why not keep this one up?" "Smogon's is better (which it certainly is)".

Even though some unique sets have been posted (Kudos on Niiro's Hammer Arm/Gyroball Metagross) very few of them are viable, so I just don't see why it isn't seen as wasted space.

So if something better exists on the internet, we should delete the also-rans? Even if what we have to offer is a little different? No. You are wrong.
Plus, "wasted space" on the internet is one of the biggest oxymoron's I've ever heard.

 

[WouW]

I think it's kinda that we originally thought 'we can make some unique sets surpassing Smogon' but now it's looking more like we're just copying Smogon.

 

[Deleted member]

or in the case of metagross, they copied me.

 

[ss118]

I would not mind a warstories section.

 

[Firus]

To be honest, I think the warstories section would just turn into copy-pastes of random battles you had on Shoddy. Which is basically what they are in the first place, actually.

I could see why there's interest in it but...meh, I see it as getting boring and repetitive. That's just my take on it though.

 

[JesiahTEG]

We have some good minds, and great battler's in here.

Back when I played frequently, I always either thought of my own sets, or used Umbreon's. I never went to Smogon for sets, simply because I believed mine/Umbreon's to be better. Most of the time they were, too. Smogon's sets are great, but eventually everyone starts using them, then it begins to shape a metagame where when you see a Pokemon on Shoddy, you know it's one of four sets most of the time. Then it just becomes a rotate in, rotate out game and you basically know your opponent's team.

That's a big reason why I used to do so well vs good players, because they had never seen my stuff before, and it was even more effective than Smogon's.

I guess the goal of the Strategy Pokedex is to provide unique sets to people that don't want to use Smogon's overstandardized sets. They're not the best sets out there, even if they seem like it sometimes.

 

[Firus]

I'd have to agree with Jesiah on the Strategy Pokedex. Personally, I don't feel confident making my own sets yet because I basically just started competitive play (if you could even say I started it; I entered the Mono-Type tourney, which I suppose counts). I basically took some sets I found that looked good and tweaked them if need be for certain battles.

But, if/when I become more knowledgeable of everything, I'd want to create teams different from the standard ones. When you think about it, if your opponent knows how to counter any strategy once they know what it is, the only leg up you have on them is mystery; the fact that they don't necessarily know your EV spread, your item, or your moveset (or your ability if there's a choice there). If you've just pulled a standard one they may already know it. If you use your own, it may take them a while to figure out just what you're doing.

So starting our own project here is beneficial, because it gives some new sets to look at and use. If Pokemon just devolves to having a way to counter all of the mainly used Pokemon and their sets...won't that get boring? Any variety will help.

 

[Deleted member]

pokemon is immensely diverse. I almost got my *** whooped by a Purugly last night....

Some of Smogon's sets are the best. Some of them (Metagross, Gyarados) I've been using for 2 years and have just recently been added as standard sets, so maybe they're catching on.

Anyone with any sense of creativity can usually one-up them though. You just need the right tools. So I'll provide some:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/

http://www.smogon.com/dp/

http://www.geocities.com/xactcreations/FixEVs.htm

http://users.smogon.com/X-Act/defense.html

http://www.metalkid.info/Pokemon/OnlineProgram/Calculators/HiddenPower.aspx

http://libelldra.com/competitive/damage/

Ideally, you start by reading Smogon's overview for the pokemon. Smogon is good at showing what a pokemon can do, common counters, and is a generally good place for a starting point.

Let's choose Swampert. Swampert is obviously good on the physical side and will probably be used best fighting other physical pokemon that won't appreciate its water attacks. So let's do that.

Notice immediately that one of the physical pokemon we'll want to beat is Garchomp, as Garchomp fits into that group of pokemon Swampert is better off fighting. To OHKO Garchomp with a non-stab ice beam, we need 269 special attack. That's a big investment that Swampert can't really afford. Since Swampert usually has Leftovers, Choice Band, or a Salac Berry on its standard sets, we can afford to feign one of the two latter and cheat the stats a little bit. Since Life Orb compromises his defensive ability, we'll use Expert belt instead. Now we check the damage calc.

Swampert needs 225 Sp Att (much better) to OHKO Garchomp with ice beam, or 210 with Stealth Rock on the field. Even without SR on the field, it will still OHKO 58% of the time, which is pretty acceptable. 210 SpA is a meager 16 EVs, so we're using it. Since we're using Expert Belt, we can also afford to invest more into defenses. First for EVs I'm going to boost it's attack, since the base 110 will get the largest overall boost, but will also threaten 2HKOs when I can't hit SE for the Expert Belt to kick in. This won't compromise the defenses much, and leaves a higher overall return. The last stat I want to worry about is speed, but at 140 I still want to outspeed min speed regis @ a neutral nature, which is 136. All Perfect 31s on a Brave nature isn't a legit combination. Turns out, the only legal combination to keep Swampert perfect in all non-speed IVs and to pass 136 speed is to make the speed IV 30. Since we don't particularly have anything better to do, we can put in Curse over the filler spot. At least that way, Swampert can curse and be able to OHKO any non-Shuca Metagross.

We finish with this:

Swampert @ Expert Belt
Brave, Torrent
252 HP / 68 Att / 136 Def / 16 SpA / 36 SpD
Earthquake
Waterfall
Ice Beam
Curse

 

[c3gill]

if your using curse, why not avalanche? or Ice Punch, the boosts from Curse would help either out....

Your logic seems great, but i dont understand why your using Ice beam on Garchomp- his defenses match Swamps offenses (both are slightly higher physical)- Swamps 110 Attack vs 95 Def matches up better than 85 SpAtk 85 SpDef (all base assumed). As Chomp isnt going to be running +Def nature or Def EVs, It seems to follow that you should be using physical attacks rather than special on Swampert, especially against Chomp. Plus, this allows for much more powerful physical attack, and probably more EVs for his defenses.

yea?

 

[Bowser King]

I agree with Jesiah and firus.The strategy dex is actually a good idea.

A war story sub-forum? I'm not sure =/

If there was an actual interesting war-story a thread for it would seem better since we don't have many warstories in the first place.

...or we could bump the old warstory thread (made by ss18 I think....).

- Bowser King

 

[Deleted member]

if your using curse, why not avalanche? or Ice Punch, the boosts from Curse would help either out....

Your logic seems great, but i dont understand why your using Ice beam on Garchomp- his defenses match Swamps offenses (both are slightly higher physical)- Swamps 110 Attack vs 95 Def matches up better than 85 SpAtk 85 SpDef (all base assumed). As Chomp isnt going to be running +Def nature or Def EVs, It seems to follow that you should be using physical attacks rather than special on Swampert, especially against Chomp. Plus, this allows for much more powerful physical attack, and probably more EVs for his defenses.

yea?

hippowdon/gliscor.

 

[c3gill]

hippowdon/gliscor.

lame. and gliscor is screwed either way, you might as well just say hippo/(skarm)

 

[JesiahTEG]

Does anyone else have anything to say before I close this?

 

[WouW]

Yes.

We need a war story section/topic.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The most epic war story...

I only had a magikarp facing someone who only had a Metapod

It was a war between splash and harden.

Somehow, the Magikarp was able to emerge victorious! ...I was probably a lot higher level though.

 

[ss118]

I would post warstories(with comments[OMG!!!]) if there was a section.

 

[Firus]

I think a topic will more than suffice. If we have an entire section I seriously think it's just going to be thread after thread of random battles you had without any sort of reason. There's no reason to make an entire section out of copy-pastes.

The most epic war story...

I only had a magikarp facing someone who only had a Metapod

It was a war between splash and harden.

Somehow, the Magikarp was able to emerge victorious! ...I was probably a lot higher level though.

And yeah, you'd have to be a much higher level to win with the Magikarp. Its PP for Splash would take longer to run out (40 vs. 30) and with Metapod's heightened Defense it'd be harder to take it down with Struggle.

 

[KayLo!]

I agree with having a war stories thread, not section.

I want to see some epic UU battles in particular.

 

[c3gill]

And yeah, you'd have to be a much higher level to win with the Magikarp. Its PP for Splash would take longer to run out (40 vs. 30) and with Metapod's heightened Defense it'd be harder to take it down with Struggle.

not really- struggle takes 25% of the users health, and only has a base power of 50. That metapod would be screwed, if they are anywhere close in level. For Metapod to win, he has to 4HKO Magikarp- i dont see that happening unless Magikarp is really low in level and Metapod is really high.

this is assuming that they each only knew that move, of course. if metapod gets string shot, Magikarp loses.

I only use my awesome Magikarp in the rain- so its speed is doubled

 

[Firus]

Wait, last time I used Struggle I do not recall it taking that much of my HP away. In fact, I'm almost positive it doesn't.

EDIT: Yeah.

The user takes recoil damage equal to 50% of the damage the attack did to the opponent.

Doesn't make sense if a Pokemon takes more damage from recoil than it deals anyways. So if Metapod dies, Magikarp would have to have negative health.

 

[Hobobloke]

I swear struggle di8d 25% damage recoil!

 

[c3gill]

Wait, last time I used Struggle I do not recall it taking that much of my HP away. In fact, I'm almost positive it doesn't.

EDIT: Yeah.



Doesn't make sense if a Pokemon takes more damage from recoil than it deals anyways. So if Metapod dies, Magikarp would have to have negative health.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/struggle

someone wanna go find out? Im fairly certain that smogon is correct on this (25% max HP recoil), obviously websites arent very reliable. ima hop on my DS and find out, someone else wanna check Shoddy?

 

[ColinJF]

Struggle does 25% max health in recoil. Moreover, the pokemon using Struggle experiences the recoil even if he has Magic Guard.

Also I just checked Bulbapedia myself and the poster above just looked on the wrong part of the page; Bulbapedia has the relevant information lower down, under "Generation IV"...

 

[c3gill]

Struggle does 25% max health in recoil. Moreover, the pokemon using Struggle experiences the recoil even if he has Magic Guard.

Also I just checked Bulbapedia myself and the poster above just looked on the wrong part of the page; Bulbapedia has the relevant information lower down, under "Generation IV"...

yep, confirmed on the DS.

old generation confusion= lame

 

[karthik_king]

old gen=better than new gen

 

[Niiro]

old gen=better than new gen

not really. I'm starting to thing that nogstila <-can't spell and haveing lower standereds has somthing to do with that idea.