Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

Guynamednelson

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but aren't we already a 7th gen rep ?
Well yes. However, with Incineroar not being the biggest fan favorite or marketing focus of Gen 7 like Greninja and Lucario were for their gens, combined with the lack of an Alola stage or music and spirits that debuted in USUM, that's why some people still have hope for another one.
 

Cosmic77

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Here's a list that has most of the notable characters who will be competing in the league. Looks like Ultimate's theme of "Everyone is Here!" spilled out into the Pokémon anime too.


151 contestants will fight in a free-for-all for the first round. Only 16 will move on.
 

Adelto

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Well i guess in that case we can hope for the guy to be a playable character but i think we'll get a 8th gen representation
 

Cosmic77

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Well i guess in that case we can hope for the guy to be a playable character but i think we'll get a 8th gen representation
You can always support a Pokémon from both Gens. I've got Lycanroc as my Gen 7 choice, and Zacian/Zamazenta as my Gen 8 choice.

Unless Gen 1 crashes the party (again), I can't lose!
 

Adelto

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Well personnaly i would hope a 3rd gen rep but that will not happen so lycanroc is a pretty solid choice and zacian would be awesome too but i think they will focus more on the starter than the legendaries
 

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Regarding the focus on starters in gen 8, unless their final evolutions are cool, popular and/or a ''MUST HAVE'' in smash, Zacian will still be the more interesting pokemon to root for.

What my question is when will they unveil more Sword & Shield info, really want to see what else the game has to offer + what the starters will evolve into, cause i don't want another Popplio situation where i love it's initial stage, but then gets progressively less appealing and ends up being my least favorite of the 3 final stage starters.
 

Adelto

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I agree except that I like primarina. And for the starter in smash I think more because of the fact that they cannot choose a pokemon that only one version have it's like fire emblem fates you can't put Xander or ryoma in smash without the other
 

Cosmic77

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Regarding the focus on starters in gen 8, unless their final evolutions are cool, popular and/or a ''MUST HAVE'' in smash, Zacian will still be the more interesting pokemon to root for.
Well, Zacian and whatever other Pokémon they have to offer. I'm sure there's gonna be at least a few other viable contenders. Then again, Gen 6 didn't have much outside the starters.

Speaking of starters, I think the odds of another starter final evo getting in Smash are pretty slim. Even if types shouldn't matter, I have a hard time envisioning Sakurai triple-dipping for a fire or water starter. Grookey is the only one I'm truly concerned about. Seeing who Grookey ends up in the anime should be a solid indicator of where things are headed.

What my question is when will they unveil more Sword & Shield info, really want to see what else the game has to offer + what the starters will evolve into, cause i don't want another Popplio situation where i love it's initial stage, but then gets progressively less appealing and ends up being my least favorite of the 3 final stage starters.
Seeing how we don't even know squat about the boxart Legendaries, we'll probably get more info very soon. We haven't gotten an official reveal of Yamper, Impdimp, or that squirrel Pokémon yet.

And for the starter in smash I think more because of the fact that they cannot choose a pokemon that only one version have it's like fire emblem fates you can't put Xander or ryoma in smash without the other
I don't think Sakurai has ever really shown to have looked at Pokémon characters that way. Unlike FE, the Pokémon games don't have unique protagonists with individual skills and talents. Every protagonist that's ever existed is essentially a generic human avatar. Pokémon are the real stars, and since the player decides the team, there's never any guarantee those people will have the Pokémon Sakurai adds in Smash.

Even if Incineroar is in both versions, you only have one chance to get him. Choose either of the other two starters, and that chance is gone.
 

Adelto

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Yeah but the starter are important for the player since it's his first pokemon and at least you SEE him in both versions unlike zacian who will be pokemon sword only so you exclude half the community
 

RileyXY1

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Well, Zacian and whatever other Pokémon they have to offer. I'm sure there's gonna be at least a few other viable contenders. Then again, Gen 6 didn't have much outside the starters.

Speaking of starters, I think the odds of another starter final evo getting in Smash are pretty slim. Even if types shouldn't matter, I have a hard time envisioning Sakurai triple-dipping for a fire or water starter. Grookey is the only one I'm truly concerned about. Seeing who Grookey ends up in the anime should be a solid indicator of where things are headed.



Seeing how we don't even know squat about the boxart Legendaries, we'll probably get more info very soon. We haven't gotten an official reveal of Yamper, Impdimp, or that squirrel Pokémon yet.



I don't think Sakurai has ever really shown to have looked at Pokémon characters that way. Unlike FE, the Pokémon games don't have unique protagonists with individual skills and talents. Every protagonist that's ever existed is essentially a generic human avatar. Pokémon are the real stars, and since the player decides the team, there's never any guarantee those people will have the Pokémon Sakurai adds in Smash.

Even if Incineroar is in both versions, you only have one chance to get him. Choose either of the other two starters, and that chance is gone.
I don't think that Sakurai cares what types that the playable Pokemon are.
 

Cosmic77

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Yeah but the starter are important for the player since it's his first pokemon and at least you SEE him in both versions unlike zacian who will be pokemon sword only so you exclude half the community
I don't think you'd be excluding an entire community by adding a Pokemon exclusive to one version, especially one that's literally on the boxart of one of the two games.

Besides, even though you likely can't capture Zacian in Shield, that doesn't mean he can't appear at all. Reshiram and Zekrom were in both Black and White.

I don't think that Sakurai cares what types that the playable Pokemon are.
I agree. I'm just saying that Sakurai probably won't pick another fire starter right after he added Incineroar. Same with Greninja, but to a lesser extent.

Now I'm not implying we couldn't get any fire or water types at all as the next newcomer. I just have a feeling Sakurai will want his next choice to seem a little more creative than being the Gen 8 equivalent of one of his previous two additions.
 
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Delzethin

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Oof. Got buried by work for a bit there and hadn't had the chance to reply to anything. Let's do something about that!

So something interesting just happened in the anime. Kukui announced that the winner of the league will face him in a exhibition match.

I don't want to spread false hope, but the only two characters competing with any meaningful connection to Kukui are Ash and Guzma/Team Skull.
Would be wild, wouldn't it? Then again, the anime's take on the Alola League seems like it's supposed to be lower key compared to the massive events of most previous sagas. Almost like it's a regional compared to the Kalos League being a national, so to speak.

The way they're setting things up seems to be making it legitimately possible, at least. Could see a scenario where Ash faces Gladion in the finals, finally wins, goes through with the exhibition match against Kukui (whether he wins or loses doesn't matter since it's basically televised friendlies), then a last minute plot arc happens to wrap up Alola, and Ash has to leave and relinquishes the title of Champion to Gladion since it should kinda belong to someone who will actually stay in Alola. Maybe a smaller League win like this could be what spurs him into traveling to Galar and its grander stage?

I would love midnight lycanroc to be a thing but aren't we already a 7th gen rep ? I still hope for him tho
Welcome! Fortunately, there's no hard rule saying no generation other than the first is allowed more than one character. For proof of that, look at the other big series with a rotating cast--Fire Emblem has three characters from Awakening!

Granted, two are echo fighters, but the point stands! Besides, if we got Dusk Lycanroc, that'd technically be pulling from a different pair of games than any of the Gen 7 content in Ultimate so far!

Well i guess in that case we can hope for the guy to be a playable character but i think we'll get a 8th gen representation
Gen 8's in an awkward spot. According to Sakurai, this wave of DLC was locked in back in November, a full year before Sword and Shield's release date. Smash tends to avoid pulling from games that are too far off at the time of characters being chosen, and even apparent exceptions have actually lined up with that. The Smash 4 team waited until X & Y were almost done before choosing Greninja, and the same thing happened this time with them waiting for Sun & Moon (which might've been why Lycanroc missed out--they wouldn't have been able to wait another 9-ish months for the form with the biggest focus to be ready without throwing off their entire schedule). Even Corrin wasn't much of an early bird pick--development on Corrin started some time around April to June of 2015, and Fire Emblem Fates originally released in Japan in late June of that year, meaning Corrin was chosen at a point where Fates was nearly finished!

It's enough that the odds of a Gen 8 'mon getting chosen a full year ahead of time, developed long before its debut game is out anywhere, is...unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.
 

Adelto

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It's not impossible but since the last character was incineroar the fact that one of the two remaining dlcs is another 7th Gen pokemon is pretty unlikely don't you think?
 

Cosmic77

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Would be wild, wouldn't it? Then again, the anime's take on the Alola League seems like it's supposed to be lower key compared to the massive events of most previous sagas. Almost like it's a regional compared to the Kalos League being a national, so to speak.

The way they're setting things up seems to be making it legitimately possible, at least. Could see a scenario where Ash faces Gladion in the finals, finally wins, goes through with the exhibition match against Kukui (whether he wins or loses doesn't matter since it's basically televised friendlies), then a last minute plot arc happens to wrap up Alola, and Ash has to leave and relinquishes the title of Champion to Gladion since it should kinda belong to someone who will actually stay in Alola. Maybe a smaller League win like this could be what spurs him into traveling to Galar and its grander stage?
From what I understand, this is how the league is set up.

Round 1 - Battle Royale (151 contestants)
Round 2 (16 contestants)
Quarterfinals (8 contestants)
Semifinals (4 contestants)
Finals (2 contestants)
Exhibition Match (Kukui and winner)

This league might actually be set up better than its most recent predecessor. For as much love as it gets, people tend to forget that Ash's first real battle in that league was in the semifinals. I didn't really like that. Felt like they decided to skip right ahead to the end because Ash was already expected to make it far.

Then again, there's sooooo many notable characters competing in this thing. There's Ash, Lana, Kiawe, Mallow, Sophocles, Lillie, Samson Oak, Gladion, Guzma, Plumeria, Jessie, James, Hala, Ilima, Acerola, Mina, Hau, and about three recurring characters exclusive to the anime - and that's just the ones we know of! I don't know how they'll be able to juggle the focus between so many characters.

Anyway, I don't think Gladion will be the one to beat Ash. If there's anyone who's gonna beat him, I have a feeling it'll be Guzma. He's already had a battle with Ash before and stopped halfway through because his Golisopod considered Pikachu to be weak. I could see him beating Ash and moving on to Kukui, only to lose to who he considers his greatest rival (for reasons still unkown).

It's not impossible but since the last character was incineroar the fact that one of the two remaining dlcs is another 7th Gen pokemon is pretty unlikely don't you think?
The order the base newcomers were revealed has no impact on the DLC. All six unique newcomers were decided at the same time, with Incineroar possibly requiring a few extra months.

It just boils down to whether or not you think Gen 7 could get two Pokemon.
 

Adelto

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I'm not sure about that incineroar as the last announcement would make no sense if we speak about hype. And it will have an impact on the order of the dlc you will not make the same "mistake"
 

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It's not impossible but since the last character was incineroar the fact that one of the two remaining dlcs is another 7th Gen pokemon is pretty unlikely don't you think?
The DLC is being picked by Nintendo. They should be aware of how several gen 7 Pokemon do better on popularity polls than Incineroar, and who has a bigger marketing focus.
 

Cosmic77

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And I think that's exactly why we won't get a new 7th Gen pokemon they focus on third party clearly
So far, yes, but that's not guaranteed to be the case. For all we know, the last two characters could be from Nintendo, giving us three first-parties and three third-parties.

Be open to the possibility. Ultimate has done a poor job of following trends.
 

RandomAce

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I'm not sure about that incineroar as the last announcement would make no sense if we speak about hype. And it will have an impact on the order of the dlc you will not make the same "mistake"
Nintendo always puts their biggest headliners first. They never ended on a huge hype note in Smash history even dating back to Smash 64 and Melee with some of their unlockable characters.

In this case, having Lycanroc be one of the last newcomers actually make sense seeing how it follows Smash’s tradition of ending on more subtler characters. Smash 4 had Corrin follow up Cloud while Bayonetta doesn’t have the star power of the other third party newcomers, and Ultimate did something similar with Ken/Incineroar and Plant following up Simon and King K. Rool. Seeing how Joker, Hero, and Banjo are arguably their most hyped newcomers, it’s say to assume that Banjo would be followed up by either 1st Party and/or smaller/not as popular third party characters.
 
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RandomAce

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So... I want to suggest something to help spread the idea of Lycanroc in Smash.

Do you guys remember NinNakajima? He was an artist that made one of the best looking banners with all the characters for Smash Ultimate:

But he also does commissions for characters not in Smash yet, and seems to do so at a constant pace. Point is, how about we get him to make one for Lycanroc? I’m not sure which of you are willing to do it, but it was something I thought about recently and wanted to suggest. I feel that this would greatly help visualize how Lycanroc could look in Smash.
 
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Guynamednelson

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So... I want to suggest something to help spread the idea of Lycanroc in Smash.

Do you guys remember NinNakajima? He was an artist that made one of the best looking banners with all the characters for Smash Ultimate:

But he also does commissions for characters not in Smash yet, and seems to do so at a constant pace. Point is, how about we get him to make one for Lycanroc? I’m not sure which of you are willing to do it, but it was something I thought about recently and wanted to suggest. I feel that this would greatly help visualize how Lycanroc could look in Smash.
Oh, we absolutely should. Also, you guys know how some people are expecting sequels to trailers now due to Banjo's being a reference to K. Rool's? Because I had an idea similar to that BEFORE it was cool: Lycanroc's trailer starts with Incineroar taking down various other Pokemon or the characters trying to challenge him at the end of his trailer. He succeeds and poses triumphantly, only to get KO'd by rocks coming from both sides. One is from Lycanroc, then after showing Lycanroc gameplay, the other is revealed to be from Isaac.
 

Delzethin

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So... I want to suggest something to help spread the idea of Lycanroc in Smash.

Do you guys remember NinNakajima? He was an artist that made one of the best looking banners with all the characters for Smash Ultimate:

But he also does commissions for characters not in Smash yet, and seems to do so at a constant pace. Point is, how about we get him to make one for Lycanroc? I’m not sure which of you are willing to do it, but it was something I thought about recently and wanted to suggest. I feel that this would greatly help visualize how Lycanroc could look in Smash.
Hm. Another potential artist? This could be worth looking into.

Though...I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to pay for all of this one out of pocket, haha. I only have so much to work with--I have spine problems, among other things, that render me unable to work a regular job, so most of my income is via my videos' ad revenue. The previous one's cost was more than I expected, even. I don't know how much the rest of you would be able to contribute if we set up another commission, but I'm going to need some assistance if we go through with it.

And I think that's exactly why we won't get a new 7th Gen pokemon they focus on third party clearly
Careful. Just because the community repeats something a lot doesn't necessarily mean it's legit. It's an easy trap to fall into! For example, a lot of people still think Leif was considered for Melee before Roy, all because some guy on (if I remember right) NeoGAF made up a bunch of stuff years ago that got taken at face value!

Especially since...

Nintendo always puts their biggest headliners first. They never ended on a huge hype note in Smash history even dating back to Smash 64 and Melee with some of their unlockable characters.

In this case, having Lycanroc be one of the last newcomers actually make sense seeing how it follows Smash’s tradition of ending on more subtler characters. Smash 4 had Corrin follow up Cloud while Bayonetta doesn’t have the star power of the other third party newcomers, and Ultimate did something similar with Ken/Incineroar and Plant following up Simon and King K. Rool. Seeing how Joker, Hero, and Banjo are arguably their most hyped newcomers, it’s say to assume that Banjo would be followed up by either 1st Party and/or smaller/not as popular third party characters.
I've seen this brought up in a few places itself lately. There has been a trend in past Smash games of there being a big, climactic exclamation point about 60-70% of the way through the reveal cycle...followed by falling action with the last few reveals being lower key or niche picks.

That said, Smash 4's DLC still ended on a pretty big note, even if Bayonetta wasn't as wild of a pick as Master Chief or Goku or half the characters that were speculated after Cloud's reveal. But since she was an unusual case, being the culmination of the Smash Ballot campaign, she may have been an exception.

Hard to say for sure with a sample size this small, but it does give us reason to think we--and any Nintendo characters--are not out of this yet.
 
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Guynamednelson

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The Pokemon Company posted this presentation for Pokemon Masters:
I should point out that both Rockruff and Midday Lycanroc are shown, but not a single Incineroar in sight.
 

RandomAce

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The Pokemon Company posted this presentation for Pokemon Masters:
I should point out that both Rockruff and Midday Lycanroc are shown, but not a single Incineroar in sight.
Well that’s because the Pokémon shown were the signature Pokémon of their respective trainers in the games their from. In this case, Midday Lycanroc is Kukui’s signature Pokémon in the S/M games. Most trainers don’t have a starter line with the exception of the protagonists and rivals. So, I don’t get why you always have to be pushy against Incineroar.

Aside from that, I am interested in the Trainer at 3:55. I don’t think I’ve seen him before (an original?) since interestingly enough his sync pair is a rockruff, and I doubt I saw him in Sun and Moon.
 

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The fact that, even on the eve of Gen 8's release, we're still seeing Lycanroc in promotional roles is a very good sign. Seeing Kukui with a midday Lycanroc was a nice surprise in and of itself, but the fact there's a new character with a Rockruff as their ace is quite the sight.

I wonder if kids who watch the anime are wondering why Kukui would have a Lycanroc in his pool and the Sun/Moon trainer probably has an Incineroar in his pool, when the anime has it the opposite way.
 

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So, not often we have two sets of news to talk about, but here we are! The first is Sakurai's Famitsu article, where he finally talked about the Hero and Banjo-Kazooie.


Oddly enough, all it really does is confirm what we already guessed: the Hero was a chance to add what Sakurai described as a "legendary franchise" into Smash, and the bear & bird were brought in due to being so heavily requested (and Microsoft actually being willing to collaborate nowadays didn't hurt). So, our situation isn't any different from what we thought it was, meaning we're left waiting to see if the theory of the last two characters being niche picks like in most previous reveal cycles ends up holding true.

The other big thing...has already been brought up because I was too dead tired earlier to post, haha.

The Pokemon Company posted this presentation for Pokemon Masters:
I should point out that both Rockruff and Midday Lycanroc are shown, but not a single Incineroar in sight.
For the record, can we not make this a promotional measuring contest? Speaking from experience with Fire Emblem Heroes, these kinds of crossover gachas bring in all the big names eventually, so it doesn't mean a damn thing. All three Alola starters will be in the game in the long run, whether through Hau (though he might just have an Alolan Raichu), Elio and Selene whenever they're introduced in a new banner, or otherwise.

That said, it was nice to see so much attention! Kukui with a Midday Lycanroc isn't a surprise since they're sticking to the games' canon, and Olivia will show up at some point with her Midnight. I'm really interested in that OC with the Rockruff, though--is he some kind of NPC assistant who helps you learn the ropes and then joins your ranks, like FEH's Askr trio? Is he a potential rival? Why is he one of the only characters to get a still to himself? Could he be how they work the Dusk form into the game?
 
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RandomAce

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That said, it was nice to see so much attention! Kukui with a Midday Lycanroc isn't a surprise since they're sticking to the games' canon, and Olivia will show up at some point with her Midnight. I'm really interested in that OC with the Rockruff, though--is he some kind of NPC assistant who helps you learn the ropes and then joins your ranks, like FEH's Askr trio? Is he a potential rival? Why is he one of the only characters to get a still to himself? Could he be how they work the Dusk form into the game?
That’s exactly what I was about to say. Seeing how Kukui and most likely Olivia is going to have both Midday and Midnight Lycanroc as their sync pairs, and since this new character has a rockruff, he may be the one who has a sync pair with Dusk Lycanroc later in the game.

I suppose we still don’t know if evolution is possible, although we did see Mega Lucario and Charizard already and there are some starter Pokémon with both their first and final evolutions (Snivy, Serpirior, and Treeko), so it may be possible.

But the fact that the signature Pokémon of a new character of an upcoming game is rockruff does give some hope that the Lycanroc line may become more of mainstay pokemon going forward. Hell, the way this game seems to be taking a sort of “all star” approach with it’s trainers and Pokémon, and Lycanroc already being one of them is a pleasant sign.
 
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Delzethin

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You know...looking at the Masters trailer again, isn't it unusual how the OC with the Rockruff is the only new character to have his team member right there with him? None of the evil team members had any.

I'm starting to think the Rockruff guy may actually be your guide to the setting and then your first recruit. Maybe even someone relevant to the story as the game's Alfonse, so to speak. If we're right in suspecting he'll be how the Dusk form is worked in, that'd be a pretty big deal for our prominence in the long run if Masters delivers on its positive reception so far. A lot more people would have the chance to get attached who may not have given much thought otherwise.

Regardless of what happens with Smash, that'd be some kind of win.
 
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Garteam

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You know...looking at the Masters trailer again, isn't it unusual how the OC with the Rockruff is the only new character to have his team member right there with him? None of the evil team members had any.

I'm starting to think the Rockruff guy may actually be your guide to the setting and then your first recruit. Maybe even someone relevant to the story as the game's Alfonse, so to speak. If we're right in suspecting he'll be how the Dusk form is worked in, that'd be a pretty big deal for our prominence in the long run if Masters delivers on its positive reception so far. A lot more people would have the chance to get attached who may not have given much thought otherwise.

Regardless of what happens with Smash, that'd be some kind of win.
If this theory does plan out, could we potentially see Dusk Lycanroc as our first mobile rep?

Fire Emblem Heroes has music in Smash Ultimate, so it's not like Sakurai is necessarily opposed to looking towards mobile games for content. Plus, it seems that mobile is here to stay from a business perspective, so a mobile-specific character may be something that happens.

In terms of candidates, here's every major mobile release Nintendo has and a character from it that could work in Smash:
Miitomo: A new Mii Fighter based around Tomodachi Life?
Pokemon Go: Melmetal
Super Mario Run: Toad(ette)
Fire Emblem Heroes: Alfonse, Anna
Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp: Tom Nook
Dragalia Lost: Euden
Dr. Mario World: Dr. Luigi
Mario Kart Tour: Waluigi
Pokemon Masters: Dusk Lycanroc (assuming this theory is true).
 

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Fire Emblem Heroes: Alfonse, Anna
I could actually see Lyn getting promoted because of how FE Heroes character polls have proven to IS she is still popular, and as a result they have given her several alts.
 
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I could actually see Lyn getting promoted because of how FE Heroes character polls have proven to IS she is still popular, and as a result they have given her several alts.
And then there's the other original characters like Fjorm, Veronica, Loki and Eir.

But as much as a pattern such as "mobile game rep" appeals to the human brain, ultimately there's no such thing.
 

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If this theory does plan out, could we potentially see Dusk Lycanroc as our first mobile rep?

Fire Emblem Heroes has music in Smash Ultimate, so it's not like Sakurai is necessarily opposed to looking towards mobile games for content. Plus, it seems that mobile is here to stay from a business perspective, so a mobile-specific character may be something that happens.

In terms of candidates, here's every major mobile release Nintendo has and a character from it that could work in Smash:
Miitomo: A new Mii Fighter based around Tomodachi Life?
Pokemon Go: Melmetal
Super Mario Run: Toad(ette)
Fire Emblem Heroes: Alfonse, Anna
Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp: Tom Nook
Dragalia Lost: Euden
Dr. Mario World: Dr. Luigi
Mario Kart Tour: Waluigi
Pokemon Masters: Dusk Lycanroc (assuming this theory is true).
Eh...I wouldn't put much stock in that angle. We're better off not thinking in terms of "reps", since Sakurai himself doesn't put much priority in it. It gets discussed so overwhelmingly often in this community that it's easy to believe it must be a thing, but the truth isn't so simple! If we got a character from one of Nintendo's mobile spinoffs, it wouldn't be for the sake of "representing" that side of the company.

We're still better served looking at factors like relevance and uniqueness when it comes to (most) first party characters, and while we only have the former for a little while longer, we still excel in the latter.

I could actually see Lyn getting promoted because of how FE Heroes character polls have proven to IS she is still popular, and as a result they have given her several alts.
If they gave Fire Emblem Heroes a look, I imagine it'd be one of the original characters designed for the game. Whether that'd be mainstays since launch like Alfonse, or newer OCs who showed up partway through like Fjorm and her spear and ice powers, or even the player character (default name Kiran) as a summoner, there could be something there.

That, and Lyn is still an Assist trophy in Ultimate and hasn't had an alt in FEH in over a year, anyway.
 
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RandomAce

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So, unless some of you don’t know, some inside information came around that Banjo and Kazooie specifically was negotiated on April 2018 which would’ve later been confirmed due to Rare’s statement that they were “working with Nintendo since last year”, just one month after Smash Ultimate’s initial teaser.

Seeing how Joker and Hero had enough work by early December, it would seem that DLC was was decided far earlier than November than what most people might’ve think (I mean it being exactly on November 1st, would be a stretch seeing as that is when the Fighter pass was revealed).

I think this could benefit us, since with DLC being decided earlier into 2018, it means that more eyes could be on Gen 7 (and subsequently Lycanroc) and Gen 8 would be more than a year away by that point, even farther than the timeframe between the decision on Greninja and Gen 6’s release.
 

Cosmic77

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So, unless some of you don’t know, some inside information came around that Banjo and Kazooie specifically was negotiated on April 2018 which would’ve later been confirmed due to Rare’s statement that they were “working with Nintendo since last year”, just one month after Smash Ultimate’s initial teaser.

Seeing how Joker and Hero had enough work by early December, it would seem that DLC was was decided far earlier than November than what most people might’ve think (I mean it being exactly on November 1st, would be a stretch seeing as that is when the Fighter pass was revealed).

I think this could benefit us, since with DLC being decided earlier into 2018, it means that more eyes could be on Gen 7 (and subsequently Lycanroc) and Gen 8 would be more than a year away by that point, even farther than the timeframe between the decision on Greninja and Gen 6’s release.
Honestly, even if it's true, I don't think it changes much.

The timeframe between SwSh and the DLC is just a few months more than the time it took for Greninja, so you'd have to argue that needing an extra 6 months for a DLC character would be a dealbreaker for Gen 8. Then, you'd also have to assume all characters were decided at the same time (around April 2018). A lot more negotiating and paperwork is required for third-parties, so it'd make sense why Nintendo would want to work out the legalities so early, especially since Banjo was from a company that wasn't involved with Smash yet. If the actual work on the DLC didn't begin until after November 1st, any of the characters could've gone first, so we don't know for sure if Joker came before or after Banjo.

Plus, TPC had already announced to the public the development of Gen 8 games on the Switch back in 2017's E3. Nintendo/Sakurai were well aware of what was coming in the future, if Pokémon's tendency of releasing new Gens every three years wasn't already obvious enough.
 

RandomAce

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Honestly, even if it's true, I don't think it changes much.

The timeframe between SwSh and the DLC is just a few months more than the time it took for Greninja, so you'd have to argue that needing an extra 6 months for a DLC character would be a dealbreaker for Gen 8. Then, you'd also have to assume all characters were decided at the same time (around April 2018). A lot more negotiating and paperwork is required for third-parties, so it'd make sense why Nintendo would want to work out the legalities so early, especially since Banjo was from a company that wasn't involved with Smash yet. If the actual work on the DLC didn't begin until after November 1st, any of the characters could've gone first, so we don't know for sure if Joker came before or after Banjo.

Plus, TPC had already announced to the public the development of Gen 8 games on the Switch back in 2017's E3. Nintendo/Sakurai were well aware of what was coming in the future, if Pokémon's tendency of releasing new Gens every three years wasn't already obvious enough.
Even if they did know when they would come out, if let’s say the all the characters were decided by early August, it would still be pretty long time to jump in that early.

We really have to wait and see what happens next.
 

Delzethin

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So, unless some of you don’t know, some inside information came around that Banjo and Kazooie specifically was negotiated on April 2018 which would’ve later been confirmed due to Rare’s statement that they were “working with Nintendo since last year”, just one month after Smash Ultimate’s initial teaser.

Seeing how Joker and Hero had enough work by early December, it would seem that DLC was was decided far earlier than November than what most people might’ve think (I mean it being exactly on November 1st, would be a stretch seeing as that is when the Fighter pass was revealed).

I think this could benefit us, since with DLC being decided earlier into 2018, it means that more eyes could be on Gen 7 (and subsequently Lycanroc) and Gen 8 would be more than a year away by that point, even farther than the timeframe between the decision on Greninja and Gen 6’s release.
It'll depend on how much them being guest fighters factored into it. When other companies are involved, there're a ton of extra hoops to jump through with setting up the licensing, running every detail past them to ensure their approval, et cetera. By its very nature, this would require much more development time than any first party characters.

It could lead to a possible scenario where this wave's guest fighter picks were hashed out over late spring and summer last year out of necessity, while the first party characters weren't narrowed down until the fall since they'd be easier to set up. Still something that'd benefit us, but we can't really pencil stuff in as-is since there is so much we still don't know of.

Honestly, even if it's true, I don't think it changes much.

The timeframe between SwSh and the DLC is just a few months more than the time it took for Greninja, so you'd have to argue that needing an extra 6 months for a DLC character would be a dealbreaker for Gen 8. Then, you'd also have to assume all characters were decided at the same time (around April 2018). A lot more negotiating and paperwork is required for third-parties, so it'd make sense why Nintendo would want to work out the legalities so early, especially since Banjo was from a company that wasn't involved with Smash yet. If the actual work on the DLC didn't begin until after November 1st, any of the characters could've gone first, so we don't know for sure if Joker came before or after Banjo.

Plus, TPC had already announced to the public the development of Gen 8 games on the Switch back in 2017's E3. Nintendo/Sakurai were well aware of what was coming in the future, if Pokémon's tendency of releasing new Gens every three years wasn't already obvious enough.
Well, it's more that those extra months could take an already iffy situation and make it even less secure. If pulling from an upcoming game a year in advance would run the risk of an outdated portrayal of the character that was inaccurate to its only source material, then pulling from a game a year and a half in advance would amplify the risk even further!

(EDIT: Reworked my reply due to misunderstanding the argument at first)
 
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Shanoa

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I'm definitely trying out Pokemon Masters on release, the concept so far looks promising.

Rockruff bro in particular looks interesting, he's the first of the OCs to appear in that trailer sequence but stands out as looking much more tame compared to the other menacing designs; I believe he'll be our rival or perhaps our guide friend like Del said.

I got to say though, already having a Midday Lycanroc in the pool makes me lean towards the Dusk form theory. If there's some form of original story, I'd like to see his character pushed.
 
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