Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[Delzethin]

Got our batch of match-ups for the quarterfinals in the anime.

Spoiler

Gladion vs. James
Ash vs. Hau
Kiawe vs. Sophocles
Guzma vs. Lana

So yeah, this league has been pretty predictable. It's common sense that James, Hau, and Lana are getting the boot in this round. The only toss-up is Kiawe vs. Sophocles, and even then it feels safe to assume Kiawe will be the winner.

I guess we also know the layout of the rest of the league now.

Semifinals:
Ash vs. Gladion
Guzma vs. Kiawe

Finals:
Ash vs. Guzma

Well, I don't think we should assume that yet.

Spoiler

They actually do seem to be sticking to "sides" of the bracket. Guzma is facing Lana, who was also among the first four matches announced in the Round of 16, and Ash and Hau were as well. Gladion vs. James and Kiawe vs. Sophocles are both "bottom half" matchups.

If they stay consistent with this setup, then we're more likely to see this:

Semifinals:
Ash vs. Guzma
Kiawe vs. Gladion

Finals:
Ash vs. Gladion

On top of Gladion still making more sense as a final opponent from a development standpoint, being someone Ash has failed to win against yet come closer to beating each time, as well as someone who they could hand the Champion title off to whether Ash loses to him or if Ash wins and then has to leave Alola a few months later.

The quarterfinals are confirmed to be 2on2 battles, so at worst, the semifinals would be 2on2 as well.

I think there's a good chance we'll see Midnight at some point during it's battle against Ash. I can't promise that it'll be the star of the show if Zoroark is competing in this league, but still, better than nothing, right?

Wait, has this round been confirmed to be 2v2? I haven't seen anything suggesting 2v2 or 1v1 yet.

Because if what you're saying is true, that itself might point toward Ash facing Gladion in the finals if they keep upping the number of 'mons per side with each round, as the semifinals would be 3v3 and the finals 4v4. We've still only seen two of Guzma's 'mons, and while pulling out a third (Ariados?) would be workable, two might be a reach. Especially compared to Gladion, who they just made a big deal out of getting a fourth party member.

 

[Cosmic77]

Well, I don't think we should assume that yet.

Spoiler

They actually do seem to be sticking to "sides" of the bracket. Guzma is facing Lana, who was also among the first four matches announced in the Round of 16, and Ash and Hau were as well. Gladion vs. James and Kiawe vs. Sophocles are both "bottom half" matchups.

If they stay consistent with this setup, then we're more likely to see this:

Semifinals:
Ash vs. Guzma
Kiawe vs. Gladion

Finals:
Ash vs. Gladion

On top of Gladion still making more sense as a final opponent from a development standpoint, being someone Ash has failed to win against yet come closer to beating each time, as well as someone who they could hand the Champion title off to whether Ash loses to him or if Ash wins and then has to leave Alola a few months later.

I just can't think of a logical scenario where Ash faces Guzma before Gladion. It'd admittingly be poor writing to have Guzma beat Ash so badly in their first battle, threaten to destroy the Alola League and Kukui's dream, and then lose in a Semifinal match so Ash can face off against a friendly rival who's already going to get additional screentime in a small arc after the league.

I think it's more likely that the matches in the brackets are truly randomized and don't mean anything significant.

Wait, has this round been confirmed to be 2v2? I haven't seen anything suggesting 2v2 or 1v1 yet.

I might have jumped the gun on that one. Ash promised Pikachu that he'd use him in his next battle, which made me think we'd get a Pikachu and Rowlet vs. Alolan Raichu and Decidueye match. That could still be the case, but all of Team Rocket is seen sitting in the bleachers, and James only has one Pokemon.

Hard to say at this point, but it's not confirmed like I initially said. Sorry about that.

Because if what you're saying is true, that itself might point toward Ash facing Gladion in the finals if they keep upping the number of 'mons per side with each round, as the semifinals would be 3v3 and the finals 4v4. We've still only seen two of Guzma's 'mons, and while pulling out a third (Ariados?) would be workable, two might be a reach. Especially compared to Gladion, who they just made a big deal out of getting a fourth party member.

Keep in mind that Alain kept a bunch of of his Pokémon hidden until the finals of the Kalos League. I don't think the writers care that much about keeping Guzma's team a secret.

Besides, there's still two rounds before the finals. We could see a new Pokémon in each round, bringing the total to five like Ash.

 

[Rad Dudesman]

Well, I don't think we should assume that yet.

Spoiler

They actually do seem to be sticking to "sides" of the bracket. Guzma is facing Lana, who was also among the first four matches announced in the Round of 16, and Ash and Hau were as well. Gladion vs. James and Kiawe vs. Sophocles are both "bottom half" matchups.

If they stay consistent with this setup, then we're more likely to see this:

Semifinals:
Ash vs. Guzma
Kiawe vs. Gladion

Finals:
Ash vs. Gladion

On top of Gladion still making more sense as a final opponent from a development standpoint, being someone Ash has failed to win against yet come closer to beating each time, as well as someone who they could hand the Champion title off to whether Ash loses to him or if Ash wins and then has to leave Alola a few months later.


Wait, has this round been confirmed to be 2v2? I haven't seen anything suggesting 2v2 or 1v1 yet.

Because if what you're saying is true, that itself might point toward Ash facing Gladion in the finals if they keep upping the number of 'mons per side with each round, as the semifinals would be 3v3 and the finals 4v4. We've still only seen two of Guzma's 'mons, and while pulling out a third (Ariados?) would be workable, two might be a reach. Especially compared to Gladion, who they just made a big deal out of getting a fourth party member.

The story is more geared towards an Ash vs Guzma battle in the finals. Ash gave that speech about how he won't let Guzma destroy the League, and Guzma is in this to destroy Kukui's dream and prevent any more leagues from being held.

Gladion, while Ash's main rival, his story has nothing to do with the league. Ash and Guzma both have personal connections to Kukui which make for a more tense finale. If Ash wins, he saves the day and stops Guzma from destroying his teacher's dream and destroying the league that he himself helped create via time travel, and he gets the rematch that he and the Royal promised to have in the last Battle Royal episode. And the final is as close as Guzma can get to accomplishing his goal before being stopped in his tracks.

Guzma's the Big Bad of this arc, and everything story-wise has been pointing to a showdown between the Hero (Ash) and the Villain (Guzma) to end off the tournament.

 

[RandomAce]

Tbh I could see it go either way. We’d be in semi-finals and those matches usually have some extra depth that can fit with both characters.

Obviously, I would hope to see a Lycanroc v Lycanroc finals, and having Dusk Lycanroc win Ash’s first league would be a big milestone.

I'm not sure if we talked about it, but if we say Lycanroc is indeed one of the dlc characters (namely the 4th one), who would the other character be?
Would it be another 3rd party or another nintendo character.

Haven’t answered this so might as well go back to it.

I could see this going similarly to Smash 4, with Lycanroc being followed by a smaller but still hype third party ala Bayonetta, so maybe someone like Lloyd.

However, Banjo sorta fits that bill as well, so I can see another first party, so I could see Byleth or I would go as far as to say Elma.

 

[LukeRNG]

Do you think something will drop at EVO 2019 given they will end their event wth smash bros ultimate?

And i'm tallking about either a shadowdrop of a character or even the 4th reveal.

 

[RileyXY1]

Do you think something will drop at EVO 2019 given they will end their event wth smash bros ultimate?

And i'm tallking about either a shadowdrop of a character or even the 4th reveal.

I think that it's too early for that, as Hero hasn't even been released yet. I don't think that we will be getting a reveal at EVO unless the newcomer to be revealed is from a traditional fighting game.

 

[Delzethin]

Ultimately, who Ash faces when in the final two rounds of the Alola Legue is going to depend on what purpose the League is serving, namely whether it's meant to just be a standalone story arc or a culmination of everything that's happened in the Alola saga. We'd stand a better chance of gaining if it were the latter.

I'm not sure if we talked about it, but if we say Lycanroc is indeed one of the dlc characters (namely the 4th one), who would the other character be?
Would it be another 3rd party or another nintendo character.

Could go either way, honestly. Past Smash entries have cooled things down for their final batch of reveals, and we saw that with Ultimate's base release. However, Smash 4's DLC run ended on Bayonetta, who actually was a pretty big deal. But she was also an unusual case due to being the character added through the Smash Ballot, meaning she might've been an exception.

Do you think something will drop at EVO 2019 given they will end their event wth smash bros ultimate?

And i'm tallking about either a shadowdrop of a character or even the 4th reveal.

I doubt it. Thing is, unlike other fighting games, a major part of Smash's playerabase only plays casually, and most of them have no prior interest in watching EVO even if it's a prime time spot. Other FGs can pull off having a reveal at a major tournament because their playerbase is mostly competitive, and so they'll actually be watching, but a Smash reveal at EVO would just lead to at least half of Smash players only hearing about it hours or days later. And we still have two characters already revealed who aren't in the game yet, one of which we know is still at least a couple months away!

It just doesn't add up, you know? If the Hero isn't out by then, I could maybe see them giving us a date the way they said "by the way there's a Smash Direct happening in a few days" last year, but nothing beyond that.

I also don't think they'd have deliberately held the Hero back just so they could make an EVO announcement, which is a theory I'm sure will make the rounds the next few days.

 

[Rad Dudesman]

Ultimately, who Ash faces when in the final two rounds of the Alola Legue is going to depend on what purpose the League is serving, namely whether it's meant to just be a standalone story arc or a culmination of everything that's happened in the Alola saga. We'd stand a better chance of gaining if it were the latter.

Obviously a culmination considering how long it's been built up.

 

[Delzethin]

Meanwhile, Pokémon Masters dropped a set of videos talking about combat mechanics and Sync Pairs.

Why is this relevant for us? Because Olivia shows up during the fourth video, in the spot that talks about combat styles.

This means that unless Paulo's Rockruff is unable to evolve, it seems all three Lycanroc forms will be present in the game from the get go. Pretty big deal, eh? And with a rumored release date of August 29th, we won't have long to wait before the game is out.

 

[RandomAce]

Meanwhile, Pokémon Masters dropped a set of videos talking about combat mechanics and Sync Pairs.

Why is this relevant for us? Because Olivia shows up during the fourth video, in the spot that talks about combat styles.

This means that unless Paulo's Rockruff is unable to evolve, it seems all three Lycanroc forms will be present in the game from the get go. Pretty big deal, eh? And with a rumored release date of August 29th, we won't have long to wait before the game is out.

You missed another thing.

In the fifth video, it’s confirmed that you can evolve any of the sync pair’s Pokémon that aren’t in their final evolutions already. And these evolutions aren’t just based on level and experience either, they are also story based and require you to go to a specific location and complete the story of the sync pair you want in order to evolve.

This means that Paulo and Rockruff could very likely have a story that leads to his Rockruff evolving into Dusk Lycanroc. So the chances of all Lycanroc forms appearing in Pokémon Masters seems to be very high.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that Fighter Pass character #5 is the latest possible time that Lycanroc can realistically join the roster. After that, a Gen 8 Pokemon will take priority. Although, there is enough content to justify a DLC Pokemon character, either from Gens 7 or 8.

 

[Delzethin]

So it seems a few places have been able to play a demo of Masters already? Based on what we've learned from it, it seems Kukui and his Midday Lycanroc won't be available in the base release, but Olivia and her Midnight will as a 5* exclusive (a.k.a. rare) summon.

And based on their stats and moveset, we got a potential powerhouse in the making.

A physical nuke/sweeper built around setting up and using critical hits to maul opponents, Olivia and her Lycanroc have the honor of, potentially, sporting the highest base Attack stat in the game. Stone Edge is the focus of the set, doing its usual thing of being a hard hitting yet inaccurate physical Rock move with a raised crit rate. But the way the rest of their kit synergizes with it is damn near absurd, with X Attack to make that already monstrous Atk stat even higher, a signature move that cuts their already low Special Defense to give major buffs to accuracy and crit rate, fixing Stone Edge's drawback and cranking up its crit rate to FE Swordmaster levels, and a passive ability that fixes their otherwise middling Speed stat by applying a buff to it any time they crit!

If any other sync pairs have tank builds that can consistently draw aggro away while Olivia sets up, then look out.

You missed another thing.

In the fifth video, it’s confirmed that you can evolve any of the sync pair’s Pokémon that aren’t in their final evolutions already. And these evolutions aren’t just based on level and experience either, they are also story based and require you to go to a specific location and complete the story of the sync pair you want in order to evolve.

This means that Paulo and Rockruff could very likely have a story that leads to his Rockruff evolving into Dusk Lycanroc. So the chances of all Lycanroc forms appearing in Pokémon Masters seems to be very high.

Well, since Paulo's an NPC, we don't know when he'll actually be recruitable, and we don't know if any NPCs will evolve their 'mons. If any of those criteria are met, though, then you're right, we'll have all three forms present in a snap.

/inb4 Thanos joke

I think that Fighter Pass character #5 is the latest possible time that Lycanroc can realistically join the roster. After that, a Gen 8 Pokemon will take priority. Although, there is enough content to justify a DLC Pokemon character, either from Gens 7 or 8.

Pretty much! Hopefully we got the chance we missed the first time, lest we end up falling victim to timing twice.

 

[LukeRNG]

If we do end up getting Lycanroc or any other gen 7 pokemon in this fighter's pass, would that deminish the chances for a gen 8 pokemon in getting in a hypothetical 2nd dlc wave?

Also some Dragon Quest spirits have surfaced.

 

[RandomAce]

If we do end up getting Lycanroc or any other gen 7 pokemon in this fighter's pass, would that deminish the chances for a gen 8 pokemon in getting in a hypothetical 2nd dlc wave?

Also some Dragon Quest spirits have surfaced.

Not at all in my opinion. I doubt Sakurai would look at it like that.

Need I remind you that Corrin got in despite Robin and Lucina getting added in the base game and have Roy return as DLC. I could see Sakurai be less hesitant if something similar happens to Pokémon because it’s a much bigger series and a lot of Pokémon are easily distinct from one another.

 

[LukeRNG]

So i've had the future of smash bros. in mind for a while; and even though Ultimate will likely last a long time, there's no doubt there will be another smash at the least til the next console generation because money (but i can see Sakurai no longer developing smash in the future or at least he'll be less involved with the development).

So in my eyes the series can only go in 1 of 2 routes (both include drastically cutting the roster):
1-. There's less nintendo representation for the big franchises (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, FE) and smaller series; and they decide to keep all 3rd parties and add more to make it the biggest crossover yet. Maybe even a story mode to rival the MCU.
Or the most likely one and the better one to bring smash back to the old days with the big focus on nintendo.

2-. They axe most of the 3rd parties (Keeping Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man and maybe even Ryu & Simon) and some not so big 1st party characters.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think it's an "either or" at this point. Either we get a Gen 7 Pokemon, or we get a Gen 8 Pokemon. Yes, I know FE got two DLC characters in Smash 4, but Roy was a popular veteran people wanted to see return. He didn't get in as a new character from a new game.

Thinking two Pokemon newcomers out of a hypothetical 11 DLC characters (four of which are already known) could easily happen might just be us getting greedy.

 

[Garteam]

So i've had the future of smash bros. in mind for a while; and even though Ultimate will likely last a long time, there's no doubt there will be another smash at the least til the next console generation because money (but i can see Sakurai no longer developing smash in the future or at least he'll be less involved with the development).

So in my eyes the series can only go in 1 of 2 routes (both include drastically cutting the roster):
1-. There's less nintendo representation for the big franchises (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, FE) and smaller series; and they decide to keep all 3rd parties and add more to make it the biggest crossover yet. Maybe even a story mode to rival the MCU.
Or the most likely one and the better one to bring smash back to the old days with the big focus on nintendo.

2-. They axe most of the 3rd parties (Keeping Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man and maybe even Ryu & Simon) and some not so big 1st party characters.

I think we are bound to see some 3rd parties dropped in the next Smash, but that has more to do with legal issues regarding character rights and maintaining good relationships with the companies involved than deliberately cutting them. In particular, characters owned by Konami and Square Enix have to deal with parent companies that are notoriously protective of their IPs.

As far as we know, Sakurai doesn't really go out looking for characters to specifically cut. Instead, cut characters are usually the victims of limited development time (,, and from Melee to Brawl, and from Brawl to Smash for) or have a gimmick that no longer technically works with the hardware ( and from Brawl to Smash for).

 

[RileyXY1]

I think it's an "either or" at this point. Either we get a Gen 7 Pokemon, or we get a Gen 8 Pokemon. Yes, I know FE got two DLC characters in Smash 4, but Roy was a popular veteran people wanted to see return. He didn't get in as a new character from a new game.

Thinking two Pokemon newcomers out of a hypothetical 11 DLC characters (four of which are already known) could easily happen might just be us getting greedy.

Considering how popular Pokemon is and how much money they would get by making a Pokemon character DLC, I could see them making both Lycanroc and a Gen 8 Pokemon DLC.

 

[Cosmic77]

Found this backpack today.



Notice the only Pokemon that isn't Pikachu or a starter?

No matter what happens, at least we can say Lycanroc was a huge part of Su/Mo. In a sense, we're really lucky.

 

[Garteam]

Found this backpack today.

View attachment 232658

Notice the only Pokemon that isn't Pikachu or a starter?

No matter what happens, at least we can say Lycanroc was a huge part of Su/Mo. In a sense, we're really lucky.

This is a good attitude to take towards things.

Even if Smash doesn't pan out towards anything for Lycanroc, we've gotten so many good things so far and have done far more than 95% of Pokemon in the franchise. It's been a heck of a ride.

Also, these are nice thoughts to have as I wait hours for Three Houses to download.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Hey I heard you guys were looking for an artist? I'm getting pretty good lately (made my profile pic myself) so if you guys have some good reference pictures for Lycanroc I could do another one of those image movesets

 

[Delzethin]

2,500 posts. Not an easy milestone for a thread to reach, much less one for such an overlooked character.

How 'bout we see how much further we can go?

If we do end up getting Lycanroc or any other gen 7 pokemon in this fighter's pass, would that deminish the chances for a gen 8 pokemon in getting in a hypothetical 2nd dlc wave?

Hoo boy, that's a difficult one. It'd depend on whether a second wave was picking characters with the first wave's choices in mind, who the available options were, how much it lines up with previous double dips, etc. My guess is it'd give a second Pokémon newcomer lesser odds, but only mildly so.

So i've had the future of smash bros. in mind for a while; and even though Ultimate will likely last a long time, there's no doubt there will be another smash at the least til the next console generation because money (but i can see Sakurai no longer developing smash in the future or at least he'll be less involved with the development).

So in my eyes the series can only go in 1 of 2 routes (both include drastically cutting the roster):
1-. There's less nintendo representation for the big franchises (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, FE) and smaller series; and they decide to keep all 3rd parties and add more to make it the biggest crossover yet. Maybe even a story mode to rival the MCU.
Or the most likely one and the better one to bring smash back to the old days with the big focus on nintendo.

2-. They axe most of the 3rd parties (Keeping Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man and maybe even Ryu & Simon) and some not so big 1st party characters.

I'm leaning toward the second being more likely for Smash 6. Cutting characters isn't an easy choice, as we've seen, but Ultimate's roster is so gigantic that something has to give come next game--even Sakurai touched on how one-of-a-kind it is! Guest fighters already require more licensing fees and creative red tape, and that makes them more difficult to keep around between iterations of any fighting game, much less one that might have to soft reboot next time just to keep from collapsing under its own weight.

Whatever happens, the community will be fighting in the streets over who they think will stay and who "deserves it more". Won't be pleasant.

Found this backpack today.

View attachment 232658

Notice the only Pokemon that isn't Pikachu or a starter?

No matter what happens, at least we can say Lycanroc was a huge part of Su/Mo. In a sense, we're really lucky.

Though I wonder how much of it was luck and how much was us catching on to which non-starter line was going to become a really big deal going forward? This kind of thing was par for the course for Lucario and Zoroark in their generations!

'Course, being on the same level as them is itself a big deal. Even if it isn't acknowledged as much because the spotlight didn't come until after people outside the Pokémon community stopped paying attention to Gen 7.

Hey I heard you guys were looking for an artist? I'm getting pretty good lately (made my profile pic myself) so if you guys have some good reference pictures for Lycanroc I could do another one of those image movesets

What do you have in mind? What kind of references are you looking for?

 

[Rangez]

Hello, Lycanroc supporters. Since there was a little talk about the possibility of another Gen 7/a Gen 8 Pokemon in the Fighter Pass in here, does anyone here have their own dream choices for who the last two characters in the Fighter Pass could be other than Lycanroc?

 

[Cosmic77]

Hello, Lycanroc supporters. Since there was a little talk about the possibility of another Gen 7/a Gen 8 Pokemon in the Fighter Pass in here, does anyone here have their own dream choices for who the last two characters in the Fighter Pass could be other than Lycanroc?

Zacian and Zamazenta are my backup Pokemon.

Aside from them though, anyone who's in my signature is who I want most. Some are long-shots, but I'm rooting for them regardless.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

2,500 posts. Not an easy milestone for a thread to reach, much less one for such an overlooked character.

How 'bout we see how much further we can go?


Hoo boy, that's a difficult one. It'd depend on whether a second wave was picking characters with the first wave's choices in mind, who the available options were, how much it lines up with previous double dips, etc. My guess is it'd give a second Pokémon newcomer lesser odds, but only mildly so.


I'm leaning toward the second being more likely for Smash 6. Cutting characters isn't an easy choice, as we've seen, but Ultimate's roster is so gigantic that something has to give come next game--even Sakurai touched on how one-of-a-kind it is! Guest fighters already require more licensing fees and creative red tape, and that makes them more difficult to keep around between iterations of any fighting game, much less one that might have to soft reboot next time just to keep from collapsing under its own weight.

Whatever happens, the community will be fighting in the streets over who they think will stay and who "deserves it more". Won't be pleasant.


Though I wonder how much of it was luck and how much was us catching on to which non-starter line was going to become a really big deal going forward? This kind of thing was par for the course for Lucario and Zoroark in their generations!

'Course, being on the same level as them is itself a big deal. Even if it isn't acknowledged as much because the spotlight didn't come until after people outside the Pokémon community stopped paying attention to Gen 7.


What do you have in mind? What kind of references are you looking for?

Basically I'm looking for concept art or other art that clearly shows how Lycanroc is built up, if that makes sense.

 

[Cosmic77]

Two things.

One, we're getting a special demo of Hero presented by Sakurai on Tuesday at 9:00 A.M. EST. It'll be 22 minutes long and may or may not cover other topics outside Hero.

Two, Gladion only used one Pokemon in today's episode, meaning that it's possible that the semifinals could be a single Pokemon match as well. If that's the case, we might be getting Zoroark vs Lycanroc. It's the only Pokemon left Gladion hasn't used.

 

[RandomAce]

Two things.

One, we're getting a special demo of Hero presented by Sakurai on Tuesday at 9:00 A.M. EST. It'll be 22 minutes long and may or may not cover other topics outside Hero.

Two, Gladion only used one Pokemon in today's episode, meaning that it's possible that the semifinals could be a single Pokemon match as well. If that's the case, we might be getting Zoroark vs Lycanroc. It's the only Pokemon left Gladion hasn't used.

Whoo! Hero time! I really want to know the rest of the DLC schedule, because the releases seem all over the place.

Anyways, so Sivally was used in today’s match? Damn. I’m still keeping my fingers crossed for a Lycanroc finals.

 

[Delzethin]

With the livestream coming tomorrow and the update not long after (as revealed early by a Nintendo social media account jumping the gun), it's only a matter of time until the next round of content is in our hands.

Any hopes for Version 4.0? New or returning modes or features you want to see implemented? Those of you who play competitively, any balancing changes you're crossing your fingers for?

 

[Cyborg Sun]

With the livestream coming tomorrow and the update not long after (as revealed early by a Nintendo social media account jumping the gun), it's only a matter of time until the next round of content is in our hands.

Any hopes for Version 4.0? New or returning modes or features you want to see implemented? Those of you who play competitively, any balancing changes you're crossing your fingers for?

Well, Home Run Contest isn't in Ultimate, which is still unfortunate, but would make for easy "new mode" fodder. However, I really want some kind of boss battle mode, featuring:

Spoiler: This is kinda long.

Boss Rush: Pretty self explanatory. Add Galeem and Dharkon at the end if you beat World of Light.

Individual Battle: Fight any boss of your choosing. You can choose any Omega form stage for Master Hand, Crazy Hand, and Giga Bowser.

Horde Battle: ...Okay, so the name could be anything, but it's that one part of World of Light where you play as Master Hand and fight a bunch of character clones. Here, it's about getting the highest score before your health runs out. This is only unlocked after you beat World of Light.

Multiplayer: One person is the boss of their choosing, everyone else is a regular character trying to take them down! The amount of health the boss player has scales depending on how many regular players there are (up to 4)

Another idea I've seen thrown around from time to time is a character palette creator, and I'm totally on board with that. They could even let you share palettes online like with stages.

As for balance changes... hmm, well I'm not really the competitive type but I have heard stirrings that Olimar's hurtbox is bigger than his shield in 3.1, so if that's true I want that fixed.

 

[RandomAce]

With the livestream coming tomorrow and the update not long after (as revealed early by a Nintendo social media account jumping the gun), it's only a matter of time until the next round of content is in our hands.

Any hopes for Version 4.0? New or returning modes or features you want to see implemented? Those of you who play competitively, any balancing changes you're crossing your fingers for?

In terms of balancing, I would like to see Cloud, Bayonetta, Robin, and the Samuses buffed. There’s also Little Mac, but that’s something everyone has been pushing for.

Spoiler: Now this a pretty long text of what I want to buff, and doesn’t really fit for this sorta thread, so I’ll spoil it in case you want to read it.

I feel that Cloud and especially Bayonetta have been toned down way too much. I Understand that they were mega controlling in Smash 4, but I feel that there could be a middle ground and be at least high tier. Cloud has a problem where he only seems to have B air as an approach so I feel that Neutral Air and maybe even Forward Air and can be adjusted to be more safe and good to use as well. As for Bayonetta, Bayonetta’s Up Air has been crucified. It can’t even kill at ridiculously high percents, so I feel that by at least having her up air kill at around 150% it can help her greatly, and also not get people mad at her being able to do a zero to death combo. Also I would like to see Bayonetta be able to do some more combos with some of her other attacks.

I’m not really sure about Robin. So far he seems to be the least used fighter of the Fire Emblem cast, despite having some strong points. However, I believe he struggles with mobility and not being able to escape approaches and dangerous situations due to that, so having a run speed/air speed could help him. Not super fast, but at least decent.

A small buff I would also make is to Captain Falcon’s Down throw. Have it be able to combo into his aerials again, since combos are pretty essential in Ultimate.

Little Mac has been trashed upon since Ultimate’s inception, and I think it’s mainly because not only are his aerial options... non existent... his ground game is pretty restrictive too. He has a slow grab, his throws won’t help him, his specials are very situational. This gives Little Mac a linear set of tools to work with, which makes him predictable and doesn’t help him in the long run. What I would do is to give every single one of his ground moves a use. Increase his grab speed to help get through shielding opponents, have his forward and back throw combo send opponents at a low angle so Little Mac can connect it with a tilt. Little Mac’s Neutral Special needs to be overhauled. Make it more fluent by having it charge faster, travel faster, and have much less end lag to get right back into action, as well as do more sheild damage. I would also do something similar to Side Special by having Little Mac travel faster, and do more sheild damage. Make the ground version of Up Special safe to use out of shield and kill at lower percents.

By giving Little Mac a more wider range of tools, it’ll help make Little Mac a true jack of all trades grounded fighter and help him in a variety of situations. Little Mac needs to be as unpredictable as possible to stay alive and not get sent straight up into the air.

As for other modes, Home Run Contest is kinda obvious. It’s a fan favorite, fun, addicting, and even competitive. It should be pretty easy to implement since it is a more simpler mode and even has code in Smash Ultimate so I can see it coming soon.

I also agree with Cyborg Sun on an alternate color creator. Many other fighting games have this, and seeing how alternate colors have drastically changed from E3 to release, it seems that alternate colors are easy to change and implement. Having an alternate color creator can allow people to use their own color preferences and bring back some cut old ones like Fire Mario. However, it seems alternate colors are also a pretty big deal as fighters don’t have colors of other fighters as to possibly avoid confusion between players and among some beliefs that certain characters have to stay a certain color to retain their iconic image (like Pikachu, Pac Man, Sonic, Cloud, etc.) I’m hoping that if it is a problem it can at least be local only, with online players not being able to see them and tournaments disabling them.

 

[LukeRNG]

So, does anyone like the way dlc has been handled in terms of it's cycle from announcement all the way to release?

 

[Cyborg Sun]

So, does anyone like the way dlc has been handled in terms of it's cycle from announcement all the way to release?

Eh... it could be handled better, ngl. They really should just specify the month characters come out instead of vague seasons. Waiting for Joker and Hero were nightmares. I would also mention that they shouldn't just drop update videos out of nowhere, but they seemed to address that problem with Hero as they announced the video in advance yesterday. As for the reveals themselves... come on, they're Smash Bros reveals, of course they're amazing. Even if I do not care about the character in question... those trailers manage to make damn sure I do.

 

[Delzethin]

Thanks for the responses! Always interesting to see what non-character content people are hoping for--doesn't get talked about often enough.

As for me, the two main features I'm hoping for are:

1. More extensive Training Mode options. The stuff we gained in Ultimate is nice, but it still feels inadequate for practicing compared to most other fighting games. New tools like a hitbox viewer or the ability to record inputs and have the CPU play them back to practice against would go a long way.

2. A custom alternate palette maker. I'm surprised I wasn't the only one who thought of it, actually! Would give players a way to truly customize their characters' looks and create a signature style. And the framework for it may already be there--isn't it strange how the alts all have options for names, yet all have generic titles? Would make sense if it was future proofing for eventually letting players make and name their own! I figure there'd be a place to display them online for others to download, like with custom stages, and they might be restricted to local play only, with the character just appearing in their default colors on the other guy's end in online matches.

The tough part would be setting it up in a way that feels user-friendly and is easy for casual players to get the hang of while also allowing for creative types to go wild. I think Rivals of Aether does it well, sticking to key colors based on certain parts of the model (well, sprite in their case), with similar shades adjusting to match. Maybe the color selection could have a toggle between Simple (gives ~32 varied colors to pick from) and Full (complete 256-point RGB customization)?

Beyond that, I figure it's only a matter of time until Stadium comes back in some form. Home-Run Contest is a given, and I wouldn't mind Target Test making a return, impractical as that is.

And for balance changes, I'm up for more low tier buffs. I actually have a pocket Plant, so seeing it become relevant would be neat. Needs something to makes its neutral less hopelessly linear, I think. Wouldn't mind a few precise nerfs, either, mainly to Pika (to put a dent in Robin's worst matchup) or Palutena (because I can't figure out how to fight her for the life of me, lol).

Personally, I actually don't think Robin is in crucial need of any buffs. He's in a decent spot right now, tournament results have been trending upward, and we've got several standout players on the rise and several tacticians in PR spots. I wouldn't mind a few QoL touch ups (Seriously, why can't we get Levin aerials with tilt stick when we could in Smash 4? Has to be a bug.), but the mobility's honestly workable as-is. Helps to have a legitimately good initial dash along with average air speed, and having both projectiles and disjointed sword swings makes it harder for people to get in once you understand how they work together!

So, does anyone like the way dlc has been handled in terms of it's cycle from announcement all the way to release?

Honestly...I don't like how feast-or-famine it's been. Leaving things alone to build hype is one thing, but total radio silence for over a month and a half on a character set to come out soon only caused more unrest than anything the past few weeks. A minor update or two, or even just "hey, the Hero's coming by the end of July" would've helped reassure everyone.

 

[LukeRNG]

Welp, gotta say Hero looks crazy broken. I can see people not liking Hero's RNG in his critical hits and especially the command menu, but i'm loving this kind of charater being a random character.

In terms of other features, there's really not much: Online tourney, a time limit for the final smash meter (Thank you sakurai), an easier difficulty for world of light, being able to bet on people online and get rewards in unlockable items. No sign of substantial game modes.

Gotta say that, while it's frustrating that nintendo was again restricted on the music selection (Thanks Square), this time we at least got a good amount unlike Final Fantasy 7. Sadly it seems the songs are poor MIDI quality again, which is dissapointing (Koichi Sugiyama strikes again!).

 

[Rad Dudesman]

Well, I was wrong. One of the semifinal battles is Kiawe vs Gladion, which means the other is Ash vs Guzma, and the final will be Ash vs Gladion.

• SM134: The Road to the Semifinals!! (August 11, 2019)
• SM135: Semifinals! Kiawe VS Gladion! (August 18, 2019 )

 

[Cosmic77]

Well, I was wrong. One of the semifinal battles is Kiawe vs Gladion, which means the other is Ash vs Guzma, and the final will be Ash vs Gladion.

• SM134: The Road to the Semifinals!! (August 11, 2019)
• SM135: Semifinals! Kiawe VS Gladion! (August 18, 2019 )

Well now, this is a pleasant surprise. And here I was thinking this league would be predictable as heck.

Still, this is pretty alarming news for Ash. The fact that Kukui is randomly added to this league as a final challenger really makes me think Guzma will be the winner. That would mean the finals would be Gladion vs. Guzma - two characters who have no connection to each other whatsoever. That's a pretty lame way to end the league if you ask me. Then again, Ash has yet to have beaten Gladion, and Guzma was seemingly the winner of his battle against Ash. Would the writers really let Ash lose to both without scrapping up a win?

I dunno. Every scenario at this point except Ash winning and battling Kukui sounds terrible.

Ash losing to Guzma and not even battling Gladion doesn't make any sense.
Guzma battling Gladion in the finals doesn't make any sense.
Gladion battling Kukui doesn't make any sense.

 

[RandomAce]

Welp, gotta say Hero looks crazy broken. I can see people not liking Hero's RNG in his critical hits and especially the command menu, but i'm loving this kind of charater being a random character.

In terms of other features, there's really not much: Online tourney, a time limit for the final smash meter (Thank you sakurai), an easier difficulty for world of light, being able to bet on people online and get rewards in unlockable items. No sign of substantial game modes.

Gotta say that, while it's frustrating that nintendo was again restricted on the music selection (Thanks Square), this time we at least got a good amount unlike Final Fantasy 7. Sadly it seems the songs are Midi quality again, an infamous trend even in the Dragon Quest Games.

Hero has a butt load of spells. 15 to be exact. I was hoping that how Hero worked was that each special had four different spells, since it wouldn’t have made Down B too RNG heavy.

Hocus Pocus and Metal Slash seem terrible. Metal Slash only really shines in stuff outside of regular battles, and Hocus Pocus is RNG on top of RNG.

Well, I was wrong. One of the semifinal battles is Kiawe vs Gladion, which means the other is Ash vs Guzma, and the final will be Ash vs Gladion.

• SM134: The Road to the Semifinals!! (August 11, 2019)
• SM135: Semifinals! Kiawe VS Gladion! (August 18, 2019 )

I’m not gonna get too excited just yet... but damn, I’m really starting to get hyped over a potential Ash vs Gladion Lycanroc finals.

 

[Rad Dudesman]

Well now, this is a pleasant surprise. And here I was thinking this league would be predictable as heck.

Still, this is pretty alarming news for Ash. The fact that Kukui is randomly added to this league as a final challenger really makes me think Guzma will be the winner. That would mean the finals would be Gladion vs. Guzma - two characters who have no connection to each other whatsoever. That's a pretty lame way to end the league if you ask me. Then again, Ash has yet to have beaten Gladion, and Guzma was seemingly the winner of his battle against Ash. Would the writers really let Ash lose to both without scrapping up a win?

I dunno. Every scenario at this point except Ash winning and battling Kukui sounds terrible.

Ash losing to Guzma and not even battling Gladion doesn't make any sense.
Guzma battling Gladion in the finals doesn't make any sense.
Gladion battling Kukui doesn't make any sense.

The official poster for the league hints that 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt will come into play again.

 

[Cosmic77]

So what do you guys make of this?

"Players can select pages for DLC spirits. Only Persona and Dragon Quest pages are selectable with three more selections being labeled as 'COMING SOON'."

Think this hurts the chances of anything that isn't a new franchise?

 

[Guynamednelson]

So what do you guys make of this?

"Players can select pages for DLC spirits. Only Persona and Dragon Quest pages are selectable with three more selections being labeled as 'COMING SOON'."

Think this hurts the chances of anything that isn't a new franchise?

Spirit boards for a preexisting franchise in Smash could be centered around a certain theme. For example, a Pokemon coming with trainer, Ultra Beast, or Gen 8 spirits. Granted, the first and last ones would be better for a Pokemon Masters or Gen 8 fighter.