Day, Night, and Dusk - Lycanroc for Smash Bros. Ultimate

[Maikou]

Yeah, the fact that the first theme deck for Gen 7 based around anything other than a starter, and the first non-starter GX-class card that debuted therein, both involved a Lycanroc is further proof that this line was planned to be a big deal from the get go. I even pointed it out in the earlier Challenger Approaching video!

On a side note, that leaping pose Dusk is doing there is probably close to what the actual Smash render would be like.


There're a couple problems with that line of thought, though. For one, would personality alone be enough to sell a character, especially one whose abilities aren't very unique compared to fighters we already have? We haven't yet seen a newcomer get in who was carried by personality and had little to offer otherwise--in fact, we saw the opposite happen once already when Chrom got sidelined.

Secondly...who's to say the other Pokémon candidates aren't expressive? In fact, part of Lycanroc's appeal is the wide array of emotions the three forms are capable of. And the anime is very good at displaying them:

That's all the same individual. If the anime is capable of that using just design notes and lore, wouldn't you figure Sakurai and his attention to detail could manage it too? Why would Incineroar be the only one to offer any standout personality just because it's the most upfront about it on the leaked concept art, when its counterparts offer similar depth for anyone willing to look beyond the surface?

At least...I'd sure hope Sakurai and crew looked at more than just one sheet of concept art. It'd be rather unprofessional to rely on so little information for something as momentous as a new Smash game. You want to be as well-informed as you can get in order to make the character concepts for these newcomers. It's something I've learned firsthand.

D'AWWWW! So cute! Such a cute little wolfy! Precious playful puppy! Lycanroc actually wags its tail and it's SO ADORABLE!
......
......
......
..Ahem. I really need to catch up on the anime. I have hear the Sun/Moon saga is pretty good, and if Lycanroc is usually this adorable outside of battles, I absolutely cannot live without seeing more!

But yeah, I can definitely glean a bit of Lycanroc's personality from those images. Seeing more in a full episode focusing on it will probably give a clearer picture, but I can see a bit of character here, and it's certainly interesting! Also, did you deliberately choose scenes where Lycanroc is interacting with Litten? It's really cute how Lycanroc just seems to be so playful and oblivious to Litten's animosity.

Now as a last part to this post I would like to talk about uniqueness and character related aspects. As probably none of you know, I am a writer (not a very good one, but I'm trying to improve) and the one thing I know how to do best is take an idea and make it into a unique character. I could be watching a movie, watching a show, listening to music, playing a game of some kind, all of these can inspire me to work with the things I've been shown. Heck, one of my mii fighters from smash 4 has become a fully fledged and original character in my writing and all I had to go off of was a default sword fighter. Let's just say I know my way around creating characters and making them unique. And knowing what I know, yes, I have come up with a decent character idea/character arc for an incineroar based character but I've created more than one for characters I have based on Lycanroc.

Sorry for the long winded rant, sometimes I don't know when to stop and with the stress I've been having recently I needed to get it out. To end off this post, I'd just like to say that I personally see so much more potential in Lycanroc than I do in incineroar, and I really hope Sakurai has been thinking the same way.

Ah, a kindred spirit! Seems we even find inspiration in similar areas. I'm also a writer, though I have much yet to learn, and it's entirely fanfiction right now. My specialty is in action and using the powers of the characters I'm working with to their fullest extent for epic, flashy fight scenes.

There's one thing I can say, though, and it's the single most important advice for any writer. So anyone else on here with an interest in writing, remember this, and remember it well: Characters are the single most important aspect of any story, and the most important aspect of any character is a good personality. The only time it isn't is in fighting games, but I would say personality and moveset potential are about equally important, especially in Smash. Good characters can make up for a cliche or even sub-par story, while no matter how original your story is, bad characters will inevitably drag them down. And while a good personality makes a bad or unoriginal moveset slightly more forgivable, a good personality with a unique moveset is MUCH more compelling.

Actually, I have to ask, how many earthbenders are there in general in fighting games? I don't recall seeing many Earth-affiliated characters in most of the fighting games I'm at all familiar with, though admittedly Soul Calibur is the only non-Smash or Pokken fighting game I really care all that much for. You know, come to think of it, we don't have ANY Rock-types in Pokken.

 

[MasteRMerF]

I would also love to see Lycanroc announced just to see how many "leaks" it would destroy I don't think I've read/heard one leak that's straight up said Lycanroc rather than "Gen 7 Pokemon" or Inciniroar. On the topic of uniqueness, with it's earth-bending, overall (awesome) rock-levitation and its quadrupedal stance, I really feel like they could make Lycanroc not only fun to use, but fun to watch in battle as well.

 

[Delzethin]

I've lately been having a tough time talking about anything smash related because it seems that every person I come across is dead set on vergeben being 100% flawlessly right about everything. I often argue points about how he could be wrong or how incineroar isn't the only option but they all counterattack with the same points over and over, because they have nothing else to prove that it's right. "Well incineroar has anime prominence so he makes sense and there aren't any characters like him yet so Sakurai would have gone with him" is an almost daily thing I see in the chat, and when I say all those things can apply to Lycanroc as well they respond with something along the lines of "after the rockruff evolved in the anime they sidelined it and it isn't prominent anymore." My entire time in that server only one person has agreed with me that incineroar isn't a lock (even though he thinks it'll be decidueye and not Lycanroc) and it's kinda sad seeing the effects of what vergeben has said this much.

I really do think we may be some of the only people left who aren't on the incineroar bandwagon, but the fact that we are still going and not abandoning ship even with the odds against us shows that we're determined to support the character we actually want, not just the one that everyone thinks is most likely. While yes it may be very difficult to rally more people to our cause, it's not impossible so we just have to keep pushing on until confirmation or deconfirmation. Sadly, people these days (from what I've seen so far) will pretty much believe anything you put in front of them, but like I said that only makes it difficult not impossible.

With every day that passes, there seems to be fewer people willing to hear us out. From personal experience, the feeling that no one will believe you, no one will listen to you, no one will even bother to lend an ear is one of the most soul-crushing things you can ever feel. It's as if you're locked out of the loop, flailing wildly at uncaring ears as the crowd has decided they must already know everything they need to know. It's enough to make one feel...utterly powerless. Enough to make one wonder if they're truly seeing something that everyone else is not...or just delusional. That sense of powerlessness is something I've felt more than my fair share throughout my life, and to see it happening again, here, to all of you...it hurts.

Though...that kind of doubt comes with the position we've found ourselves in, I think. I've learned that there's nothing wrong with feeling it or acknowledging it, and that we're better off seeking out answers for that doubt rather than trying to cover it up and feign invincibility. Genuine growth feels better than smoke and mirrors, anyway.

There must be a way to get at least some people to sit up and take notice and give a damn, right? Anyone have any ideas? They can't all have abandoned us, right?

Actually, I have to ask, how many earthbenders are there in general in fighting games? I don't recall seeing many Earth-affiliated characters in most of the fighting games I'm at all familiar with, though admittedly Soul Calibur is the only non-Smash or Pokken fighting game I really care all that much for. You know, come to think of it, we don't have ANY Rock-types in Pokken.

Off the top of my head, the only one who comes to mind is Kragg, from Rivals of Aether. Garchomp comes close in Pokkén, but focuses more on sand manipulation and digging (makes sense, being a Ground type). And if Smash were to pass up on the most prominent Rock type we've ever had, I'm not sure when there would be the chance to add an earthbender to the roster, short of them plucking Isaac out of the underworld.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I'm sure we hit a very robust track when hunting for Lycanroc clues!

Like Lycanroc, we were very careful when it came to our territory, sniffing out any news on our front and managed to stand our ground. Accepting it might be Incineroar who gets in Smash instead is not a bad thing and I think the aftermath and its hindsight could help us uncipher Sakurai's design philosophy even more and see what we might've missed. That said, I'd rather not jump to that right now and wait until the fat lady actually sings.

 

[valkiriforce]

I'm with you guys in holding out for any hope of Lycanroc's appearance. It's great to know there are others who feel the same way about it, and even now I still feel a little baffled about why Incineroar would make the cut if indeed that is the case. I was doing a little research recently regarding Incineroar, Lycanroc and Decidueye (since these three are brought up the most). Concerning the anime, it didn't seem like there was much to be seen with Incineroar, and we know Lycanroc is featured quite a bit in various forms, and Decidueye I don't think has really had an appearance yet? From what I gather it's mostly been either because of the Sun and Moon games or the Pokken Fighters game that people have wanted them. I could do with some more research to be honest, but these have just been some general observations I've made for the most part.

I'm actually one of those people who was super into Pokemon in the late 90's/early 2000's and hasn't really paid any attention to it since I kinda lost interest around the time the second generation rolled along. I collected Pokemon cards and watched the anime, but strangely hardly played the game (my sister was more into that). I do remember Pokemon Pinball was my first game ever for the GameBoy Color, so that was something at least. Occasionally I'd play Pokemon Stadium with my sister here and there, but for the most part my involvement with Pokemon was in the form of trading cards and watching the anime. Oh yeah, and I also liked collecting those little figurines they used to have. I remember in the days of the first Super Smash Bros. I was confused that they chose Jigglypuff for one of the secret characters, and wondered why they would go with them over someone like Hitmonchan since he was one of my favorite Pokemon growing up, and I thought about how they would have made for a better fighter in a fighting game. That's pretty much been my involvement with Pokemon, as I've been a stranger to most of the new Pokemon that exist these days outside of those that have appeared in some later Smash Bros. games like Lucario and Greninja.

All this is to say that even though I haven't really been involved in watching things like the newer Pokemon anime shows or playing any of the later games (and I know I mentioned this in my first post in this thread) regardless of the reasons people might give for Incineroar and Decidueye, even I have noticed how "out there" Lycanroc has been given how often I've seen them in places where I wasn't really looking for them. To be honest I'm not sure I remember my first exposure to Lycanroc - I'm thinking it was that first reveal in a Japanese magazine which was posted on Tumblr, but how I came across that I don't know. I was interested though and it caught my attention for some reason. It felt like a design I could get behind, and the different forms really make things interesting with the clashing of Midday and Midnight forms, and later on finding out about the Dusk form. I've seen those Pokemon cards and boxes with Lycanroc artwork on them just going through the checkout at Walmart - I can't say the same for Incineroar or Decidueye. They just sorta popped up for me in Smash speculation videos - namely Decidueye since I had no idea who they were. Incineroar I can't remember - I may have heard that name thrown around because of Smash speculation, and probably had to Google them just to see what they looked like. Anyway, as an outside observer of what's been happening for Pokemon lately I don't see why we shouldn't get someone like Lycanroc - I just hope it really is in the form of a playable character and not a Pokeball summon. Surely I would think Sakurai would have some thoughts about this Lycanroc Pokemon, and how they would go about using them. Outside of the Smash community they seem to be pretty popular - it's only among the speculation groups where I hardly ever hear about them since everything seems set in stone thanks to some theories (which to be honest I'm not sure just how accurate they may or may not be). So just letting you know I'm another one of those holding out hope for Lycanroc having prominence in Smash Ultimate. I can't imagine how a Pokemon like them could be so out there and miss getting into Smash Bros, but I can't really go any more in-depth than this since I'm not as knowledgeable of modern Pokemon happenings than you guys have been. I'll be with you guys until the end - keep being awesome.

 

[MasteRMerF]

I'm with you guys in holding out for any hope of Lycanroc's appearance. It's great to know there are others who feel the same way about it, and even now I still feel a little baffled about why Incineroar would make the cut if indeed that is the case. I was doing a little research recently regarding Incineroar, Lycanroc and Decidueye (since these three are brought up the most). Concerning the anime, it didn't seem like there was much to be seen with Incineroar, and we know Lycanroc is featured quite a bit in various forms, and Decidueye I don't think has really had an appearance yet? From what I gather it's mostly been either because of the Sun and Moon games or the Pokken Fighters game that people have wanted them. I could do with some more research to be honest, but these have just been some general observations I've made for the most part.

I'm actually one of those people who was super into Pokemon in the late 90's/early 2000's and hasn't really paid any attention to it since I kinda lost interest around the time the second generation rolled along. I collected Pokemon cards and watched the anime, but strangely hardly played the game (my sister was more into that). I do remember Pokemon Pinball was my first game ever for the GameBoy Color, so that was something at least. Occasionally I'd play Pokemon Stadium with my sister here and there, but for the most part my involvement with Pokemon was in the form of trading cards and watching the anime. Oh yeah, and I also liked collecting those little figurines they used to have. I remember in the days of the first Super Smash Bros. I was confused that they chose Jigglypuff for one of the secret characters, and wondered why they would go with them over someone like Hitmonchan since he was one of my favorite Pokemon growing up, and I thought about how they would have made for a better fighter in a fighting game. That's pretty much been my involvement with Pokemon, as I've been a stranger to most of the new Pokemon that exist these days outside of those that have appeared in some later Smash Bros. games like Lucario and Greninja.

All this is to say that even though I haven't really been involved in watching things like the newer Pokemon anime shows or playing any of the later games (and I know I mentioned this in my first post in this thread) regardless of the reasons people might give for Incineroar and Decidueye, even I have noticed how "out there" Lycanroc has been given how often I've seen them in places where I wasn't really looking for them. To be honest I'm not sure I remember my first exposure to Lycanroc - I'm thinking it was that first reveal in a Japanese magazine which was posted on Tumblr, but how I came across that I don't know. I was interested though and it caught my attention for some reason. It felt like a design I could get behind, and the different forms really make things interesting with the clashing of Midday and Midnight forms, and later on finding out about the Dusk form. I've seen those Pokemon cards and boxes with Lycanroc artwork on them just going through the checkout at Walmart - I can't say the same for Incineroar or Decidueye. They just sorta popped up for me in Smash speculation videos - namely Decidueye since I had no idea who they were. Incineroar I can't remember - I may have heard that name thrown around because of Smash speculation, and probably had to Google them just to see what they looked like. Anyway, as an outside observer of what's been happening for Pokemon lately I don't see why we shouldn't get someone like Lycanroc - I just hope it really is in the form of a playable character and not a Pokeball summon. Surely I would think Sakurai would have some thoughts about this Lycanroc Pokemon, and how they would go about using them. Outside of the Smash community they seem to be pretty popular - it's only among the speculation groups where I hardly ever hear about them since everything seems set in stone thanks to some theories (which to be honest I'm not sure just how accurate they may or may not be). So just letting you know I'm another one of those holding out hope for Lycanroc having prominence in Smash Ultimate. I can't imagine how a Pokemon like them could be so out there and miss getting into Smash Bros, but I can't really go any more in-depth than this since I'm not as knowledgeable of modern Pokemon happenings than you guys have been. I'll be with you guys until the end - keep being awesome.

Your support is very much appreciated here, friend

 

[Cosmic77]

Verge said something a little interesting. According to him, the reason why he doesn't know for sure which SE rep is in Smash is because SE is telling its employees multiple names to throw off leakers.

Not even going to bother questioning that, but that does create a very "straw-grasping at its finest" scenario. What if TPC and Sakurai used Incineroar as a red herring so the real newcomer would suprise everyone? I don't think it's very likely, given Game Freak's track record with leaks, but what do you guys think? Do you think this is a precaution Sakurai would take? After all, he did go to great lengths to hide promotional posters and notes in his own workspace. Clearly keeping suprises means a lot to him.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Not even going to bother questioning that, but that does create a very "straw-grasping at its finest" scenario. What if TPC and Sakurai used Incineroar as a red herring so the real newcomer would suprise everyone? I don't think it's very likely, given Game Freak's track record with leaks, but what do you guys think? Do you think this is a precaution Sakurai would take? After all, he did go to great lengths to hide promotional posters and notes in his own workspace. Clearly keeping suprises means a lot to him.

Well, this turns the whole Incineroar is the only possible rep misconception on its head. Hell yeah I think Incineroar is a cover up!

 

[Delzethin]

Verge said something a little interesting. According to him, the reason why he doesn't know for sure which SE rep is in Smash is because SE is telling its employees multiple names to throw off leakers.

Not even going to bother questioning that, but that does create a very "straw-grasping at its finest" scenario. What if TPC and Sakurai used Incineroar as a red herring so the real newcomer would suprise everyone? I don't think it's very likely, given Game Freak's track record with leaks, but what do you guys think? Do you think this is a precaution Sakurai would take? After all, he did go to great lengths to hide promotional posters and notes in his own workspace. Clearly keeping suprises means a lot to him.

Wait...didn't Vergeben say once, back in the spring, that he'd heard Nintendo reps might be deliberately spreading misinformation to muddy the water and make it less likely that everything was leaked? Can someone find that quote? Can someone also find this new quote about Square-Enix deceiving its own employees?

While Pokémon hasn't been big in speculation, it is Nintendo's second biggest franchise, so maybe it'd be a focus point for that kind of thing. Maybe these sources heard one of those names and presumed it had to be the actual choice because of their own mistaken assumptions about merchandising or anime importance? And while Game Freak has a poor record of keeping things secret, anything Smash-related wouldn't even involve them, it'd all be TPC and the Smash devs.

We need to be careful about this to keep from devolving into conspiracy theories, but maybe there's something to it. Let's keep digging.

 

[SmashChu]

Careful. Vergeben has missed stuff in the past, but we need to keep our facts straight. For one, he himself has never implied the Square-Enix rumors are for DLC--that's all been Box Theory believers who've decided the SE character must be such.

That said...do you have links to Laura elaborating on her sources? She got a lot of undue mudslinging for what happened, but if it really was an example of multiple sources all being mistaken about something, then we may have found the counterpoint we've needed.

Fair enough. Here is what he's said on it: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/board...mate/77008096/908847363?utm_source=reddit.com
His statements are still odd. He always sounds like he doesn't really know which is bizzar since he's supposedly talking to people who know quite a bit about the game

As for Laura, it's here: http://letsplayvideogames.com/2017/01/a-deep-dive-on-lpvgs-nintendo-switch-reports-and-info/
But I perhaps wasn't clear what I meant about "sources". What I'm saying is these people use that as a cover to make them sound like they have more authority than they do.

Consider Laura. She has 6 different sources including someone connected to Nintendo and Ubisoft. You'd think she'd get more right about the games. She even got information wrong about other Ubisoft titles. If she got so much wrong, it comes into question if she even had sources to begin with. My assessment of the situation (as someone who looked a lot into it) is this. Laura had one good piece of info: Rabbids Kingdom Battle. That was true. She used this to make a lot of other BS rumors. If she could get close on some and get Rabbids, all of the wrong things could be swept away as "Oh, things change" or "oh one of my sources must have been bad" (Verge may be trying to do the same here). What ruined her is that Rabbids didn't show up and that Splatoon was a sequel, not a port.

You can never trust "sources" because you have no way of knowing if there is even a source to begin with. What if I said that a "source" told me Nintendo will show off a new F-Zero game in 2019. You have no way to know if I'm BS you of if I really have a super secret source. Heck, I could tell you 100 inside sources relayed this info to me. Does mean anything. It's used to give what people are saying an air of authority. But more often than not it's a way to peddle rumors. People are trusting nowadays and if you tell them you have multiple sources it seems more believable. Why did Laura get so much wrong with 5 sources (even simple things too). If Verge has so many industry contacts, why is he known more for getting it wrong rather than getting it right?

See, people crave internet fame for whatever reason. In Laura's case, she had a Paypal and Patreon linked to her Twitter. She would tweet it out for "tips". More rumors mean more money. Again, she was banking of Rabbid as if that was true more people would give her the benefit of the doubt. Verge is more in it for Reddit Karma. If you look at his posting history, he's made rumors on almost everything. Soul Caliber, Konami, Nintendo, Capcom ect. I'm sure he gets some information. He knew the TMNT was in Injustice 2. It's that everything else is bogus. I figure it's a situation where get maybe gets one thing and then stretches out the rest. Think about it: if Nintendo is so tight lipped about this, how is one guy who has a traceable username on Reddit getting all of this info. Ridley was known by a few people and I've heard Simon might have been too. Some of what he's saying is likely BS but will use what he has gotten right as a shield. I think Isabelle was a guess since he was saying her after everyone else was. Same for Incinaroar. By the by, he's also been known to edit post and follow other leeks to look legitimate.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

What if I said that a "source" told me Nintendo will show off a new F-Zero game in 2019. You have no way to know if I'm BS you of if I really have a super secret source. Heck, I could tell you 100 inside sources relayed this info to me. Does mean anything. It's used to give what people are saying an air of authority. But more often than not it's a way to peddle rumors. People are trusting nowadays and if you tell them you have multiple sources it seems more believable. Why did Laura get so much wrong with 5 sources (even simple things too). If Verge has so many industry contacts, why is he known more for getting it wrong rather than getting it right?

What if Nintendo actually does show off a new F-Zero game next year? But yeah, I definitely see leakers try to use what they get right as a shield from what they get wrong. But some people are dumb enough to be sucked into anything. Sure Vergeben’s “sources” (himself) say Incineroar, but what these leakers don’t know is that this isn’t how Sakurai thinks. He saw a bipedal heel wrestling cat, and a quadrupedal earth bending wolf-dog thing. He would’ve taken the one that is more unique and fits his design philosophy perfectly, which Lycanroc is more than unique enough to do. But that’s why we hate leaks in this fan base. Vergeben says one name and people outside of here don’t even think twice before treating every word like gospel, and we end up with more than a few people quitting out on their favorite characters for some stupid leak. Also, I love how people are saying that Torracat has to evolve like it’s obvious. No. It’s not. If Quilava, Bayleef, and Pignite didn’t have to evolve, neither does Torracat. Also can I just quickly say the only time two characters have shared a Pokémon of the exact same evolution and type has been when the plot demanded it(see Richie’s Pikachu in the Kanto league).

 

[Nemuresu]

You can never trust "sources" because you have no way of knowing if there is even a source to begin with. What if I said that a "source" told me Nintendo will show off a new F-Zero game in 2019. You have no way to know if I'm BS you of if I really have a super secret source. Heck, I could tell you 100 inside sources relayed this info to me. Does mean anything.

I'll leave my two cents on how I heard about Vergeben when he first popped-up to leak things, if it means anything.
He first appeared on Reddit around September last year, trying to gather attention on r/MVCI/ and r/Kappa/. I first ignored him because he didn't have any kind of credentials, but then Maximillian Dood (popular FGC Youtube celebrity) claimed on GAF that there was something about those leaks that was probably real and then got interested, (sadly, I don't have the screen-cap with Max's comment anymore, but I still have the link to Vergeben's first "leaks":
https://old.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comm...i_ssfv_dmc5_dbfz_and/?st=j7cmo8if&sh=b6b64cc0
they turned out to be wrong, but that's not what I'm here for). Now, while I wouldn't say that Max is a leaker, I do know for sure that he's not a gullible person to believe anything they tell him. And then of course, later on in December, Verg came back with new leaks now that he got some kind of credential going for him (that one being the TMNT), and once some his leaks (mainly the ones regarding Bandai-Namco) started to become real, people have been more willing to trust him compared to when he first started.
So no, I didn't join Vergeben's side just because he popped-up one day with some fancy speculation text.

He knew the TMNT was in Injustice 2. It's that everything else is bogus.

Uh, Base Goku and Vegeta? DBFZ on Switch? Groh? Azwel? Tira? Jump Force? The new Samurai Shodown?
Do any of these ring you any bells?

I figure it's a situation where get maybe gets one thing and then stretches out the rest. Think about it: if Nintendo is so tight lipped about this, how is one guy who has a traceable username on Reddit getting all of this info. Ridley was known by a few people and I've heard Simon might have been too. Some of what he's saying is likely BS but will use what he has gotten right as a shield.

Ridley sure, but nobody else with some kind of reputation as a leaker claimed Simon. That claim about "Stealth__ came first!" isn't good enough because that guy doesn't have any real leaks on his belt (at least, not as far as I know) and got banned from GAF and ERA for bandwagoning stuff like Shovel Knight being a DLC character for Sm4sh.

I think Isabelle was a guess since he was saying her after everyone else was.

Then I guess the Gematsu leak wasn't a real leak under that logic, because it had constantly-discussed characters like Little Mac, Pac-Man, Palutena and Shulk on it.

Same for Incinaroar. By the by, he's also been known to edit post and follow other leeks to look legitimate.

He hasn't done that for months already. I literally can't find any time he's actually tried to steal credit after the whole Bills and Hit fiasco.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

The only way Verge could possibly know what he knows and nothing else without guessing is if he got his hands on a very early version (I’m talking pre-alpha level ****) and datamined it for what fighters were in there from the get-go. Either Verge ends up like Gematsu, or he is complete bs. Only time will tell.

 

[Delzethin]

At ease, everyone. We aren't here to discredit leakers or insiders. Even the most reliable of them make mistakes every now and then (Remember when Liam had a source saying Shovel Knight was coming to Smash 4 as DLC?). They don't become frauds overnight just for not having a 100% perfect record, and we need to do better than to fall into that all-or-nothing mentality. At this point, Vergeben clearly has sources who know things; the question is whether said sources have made another mistake like the many other mistakes he's made in the past.

That blog post by Laura is actually very interesting, in how she explains which sources knew which information. But it's the last part that may be most interesting right now: three different sources--including one who was correct on everything else they'd said--claimed Mother 3 was getting a Switch eshop release in Summer 2017, which, as you know, never came to pass and still hasn't. There's our precedent: A clear example where multiple sources were all incorrect about the same thing. It happened there, and maybe it might happen again.

No reason to go out on a soapbox or anything, because the odds are still against us, but now we're not just grasping at thin air anymore.

 

[GlaceonGD]

At ease, everyone. We aren't here to discredit leakers or insiders. Even the most reliable of them make mistakes every now and then (Remember when Liam had a source saying Shovel Knight was coming to Smash 4 as DLC?). They don't become frauds overnight just for not having a 100% perfect record, and we need to do better than to fall into that all-or-nothing mentality. At this point, Vergeben clearly has sources who know things; the question is whether said sources have made another mistake like the many other mistakes he's made in the past.



That blog post by Laura is actually very interesting, in how she explains which sources knew which information. But it's the last part that may be most interesting right now: three different sources--including one who was correct on everything else they'd said--claimed Mother 3 was getting a Switch eshop release in Summer 2017, which, as you know, never came to pass and still hasn't. There's our precedent: A clear example where multiple sources were all incorrect about the same thing. It happened there, and maybe it might happen again.



No reason to go out on a soapbox or anything, because the odds are still against us, but now we're not just grasping at thin air anymore.

I would actually like to bring up an interesting point regarding these proclaimed sources and leakers. When vergeben started off all he said was "not decidueye, lycanroc, or mimikyu" so most people automatically gravitated towards incineroar as to them it seemed most likely. He then had his messages leaked stating that a few of his sources had said incineroar but not all of them. Move forward a few months to the past few weeks slightly after the reveal of Isabelle, where all of a sudden he now knows for a fact it is incineroar, the one everyone went to after he said not the other three. Maybe this is a potential way to prove our point that incineroar is not in fact a lock? Just think about it for a moment. No one says incineroar until verge says it won't be the other three, then everyone says it'll be incineroar and magically a few of his sources have said it as well, and finally he swoops in one more time after he's gotten some things right and half the community takes his word as gospel to say all his sources are now saying it will be incineroar. Seems more than a little suspicious to me, wait for everyone to start the rumor for you then "confirm" that the rumor is true. This is obviously not proven, just a theory (although I would not be surprised if this were the case), but it's still something to go off of. The fact no one has really considered this yet is interesting, maybe because people don't want to stop believing him? Maybe this was more of him jumping on the incineroar bandwagon he inadvertently created after realizing people were calling him credible instead of him actually knowing for a fact that the newcomer will be incineroar, just something to keep in mind for the future.

 

[Delzethin]

One thing that's...been on my mind lately.

Do any of you remember the story of how Wolf made it into Brawl? From how Sakurai explained it, they were down to the wire during Brawl's development cycle, and for whatever reason, they were still deciding between Wolf and Krystal. Now, obviously, one of the two had vastly more moveset potential and offered a completely new weapon type that we still haven't seen to this day. And yet, Krystal was passed up on. Why? Because they were pressed for time, and Wolf was easier to make with the assets and technical know how that they already had.

And I can't help but wonder...what if that also happens to us? On the other hand, this situation has only come up once in Smash history--far as we know--and there are no signs of Ultimate being rushed like Brawl or Melee were. And yet...it's a potential loss condition we should probably keep in mind.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Given that Verg didn't know about echoes or K. Rool, I wouldn't think he would know about a stage in development where they had to scrap a more unique fighter for Incineroar.

 

[Cosmic77]

One thing that's...been on my mind lately.

Do any of you remember the story of how Wolf made it into Brawl? From how Sakurai explained it, they were down to the wire during Brawl's development cycle, and for whatever reason, they were still deciding between Wolf and Krystal. Now, obviously, one of the two had vastly more moveset potential and offered a completely new weapon type that we still haven't seen to this day. And yet, Krystal was passed up on. Why? Because they were pressed for time, and Wolf was easier to make with the assets and technical know how that they already had.

And I can't help but wonder...what if that also happens to us? On the other hand, this situation has only come up once in Smash history--far as we know--and there are no signs of Ultimate being rushed like Brawl or Melee were. And yet...it's a potential loss condition we should probably keep in mind.

This could happen if they had enough time, but there would be a lot of competition. Not only would Lycanroc have to face off against Decidueye, but you'd also have to take into account the characters from other franchises. Would Sakurai add Lycanroc because its important in the anime, or would he add Spring Man/Rex because they're new? Would Sakurai go with another Pokemon, or add a popular character from a franchise that didn't get anything new, like Zelda or Kirby?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

One thing that's...been on my mind lately.

Do any of you remember the story of how Wolf made it into Brawl? From how Sakurai explained it, they were down to the wire during Brawl's development cycle, and for whatever reason, they were still deciding between Wolf and Krystal. Now, obviously, one of the two had vastly more moveset potential and offered a completely new weapon type that we still haven't seen to this day. And yet, Krystal was passed up on. Why? Because they were pressed for time, and Wolf was easier to make with the assets and technical know how that they already had.

And I can't help but wonder...what if that also happens to us? On the other hand, this situation has only come up once in Smash history--far as we know--and there are no signs of Ultimate being rushed like Brawl or Melee were. And yet...it's a potential loss condition we should probably keep in mind.

Are you sure that's the right interpretation though?
It could very well be that the interviewer said "Why did Wolf get in and not Krystal" and Sakurai said how Wolf was picked because he was easy. This way, Krystal was never actually on the table and Sakurai picked a few semis for the end of development, including Wolf.
It'd be like asking why Daisy got in and not Waluigi: Because she was chosen based on fitting as an Echo, not as a new Mario character.

In this scenario, there was never a Pokémon considered, until Sakurai had to pick characters that could slip in more easily and picked Incineroar for that purpose, obviously over Lycanroc, who simply didn't fit the position as semi

 

[Maikou]

One thing that's...been on my mind lately.

Do any of you remember the story of how Wolf made it into Brawl? From how Sakurai explained it, they were down to the wire during Brawl's development cycle, and for whatever reason, they were still deciding between Wolf and Krystal. Now, obviously, one of the two had vastly more moveset potential and offered a completely new weapon type that we still haven't seen to this day. And yet, Krystal was passed up on. Why? Because they were pressed for time, and Wolf was easier to make with the assets and technical know how that they already had.

And I can't help but wonder...what if that also happens to us? On the other hand, this situation has only come up once in Smash history--far as we know--and there are no signs of Ultimate being rushed like Brawl or Melee were. And yet...it's a potential loss condition we should probably keep in mind.

I don't think that's a problem for us, honestly. Sakurai's been working on this game since the end of Smash 4's DLC, and he managed to keep it secret long enough to present it to us just six months from release. I doubt he'd manage something like that if Ultimate was being rushed. You're also using an example where both characters had pretty great reason to get in. Krystal's staff and such offer plenty in the moveset department, and she had prominence and relevancy as a member of Star Fox and Fox's love interest. But Wolf is Fox's true rival, an antagonist, while he doesn't have as much uniqueness as Krystal, he is still important to the franchise and again, relevant and prominent as Fox's rival. It's also worth noting that Wolf is almost nothing like Fox or Falco, sharing exactly zero non-Special moves and even the Specials function differently, like Wolf Flash going at a diagonal angle of movement instead of straight horizontal, or the Blaster being a single strong shot with a knife hitbox.

I'm fairly certain most people don't want to see or play Fox fighting his girlfriend. EVERYONE wants to see him fight his rival in hand-to-hand. Granted, there's plenty of characters you can say that for, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't really apply to Pokemon.

The fact is, the only real reason for Incineroar to get in over Lycanroc is being easier to make, which doesn't strike me as the kind of thing Sakurai simply chooses to do. The only possible reason would be that rush, but Ultimate strikes me as simply too great an undertaking, too big a project to simply rush in any real regard. And I really don't see how Sakurai and his team could possibly spare any time for the CG character trailers we've been getting if the main game is at all rushed. Of all things, those are the least important aspects and definitely things one has taken care of much later than actual characters on the roster. This isn't like the Subspace Emissary, where the cutscenes absolutely had to be completed in order for the mode to be playable.

 

[Delzethin]

Knew I could rely on you guys. The other reason I brought it up was because I figured there was good chance you'd have counterpoints that I hadn't considered.

Are you sure that's the right interpretation though?
It could very well be that the interviewer said "Why did Wolf get in and not Krystal" and Sakurai said how Wolf was picked because he was easy. This way, Krystal was never actually on the table and Sakurai picked a few semis for the end of development, including Wolf.

Actually, we know for a fact that it came down to one or the other, with Wolf getting the nod because he was easier to fit into their already highly strained dev cycle. It's enough to make one wonder how things could've been different if (iirc) their deal to outsource development of Subspace Emissary hadn't fallen through and forced them to take on a workload far greater than they'd planned for...

Fortunately, there haven't been any signs yet of Ultimate causing any similar strain...at least, not yet. Hopefully that holds true.

And I really don't see how Sakurai and his team could possibly spare any time for the CG character trailers we've been getting if the main game is at all rushed. Of all things, those are the least important aspects and definitely things one has taken care of much later than actual characters on the roster. This isn't like the Subspace Emissary, where the cutscenes absolutely had to be completed in order for the mode to be playable.

For what it's worth, it seems like the CG trailers are also handled by a different team. Though I think the ones for Ultimate are done by a group of Bamco animators?

 

[AlphaSSB]

Heads up if any of you are believers in the music theory.

Our newest track is a remix of Steven's Champion theme.

 

[Cosmic77]

Heads up if any of you are believers in the music theory.

Our newest track is a remix of Steven's Champion theme.

If we're still getting a Pokemon newcomer in the near future, then I have absolutely no idea why they didn't just wait another week or two until after the Gen VII reveal. Makes more sense, right?

The one week delay of the AC track made me believe the Music Theory, but now I'm not really sure what to believe. If it's still correct, then Verge would be wrong with his prediction of Incineroar. Sounds good at first, until you realize that this would mean Lycanroc is disconfirmed as well.

At the very least, something else we can discuss.

 

[RandomAce]

Heads up if any of you are believers in the music theory.

Our newest track is a remix of Steven's Champion theme.

Well, the music theory is probably debunked as we’re most likely still getting a Gen 7 Pokémon.

But that fact it was a Gen 3 remix is vey interesting since they decided to hold off of a Sun and Moon remix.

I've lately been having a tough time talking about anything smash related because it seems that every person I come across is dead set on vergeben being 100% flawlessly right about everything. I often argue points about how he could be wrong or how incineroar isn't the only option but they all counterattack with the same points over and over, because they have nothing else to prove that it's right. "Well incineroar has anime prominence so he makes sense and there aren't any characters like him yet so Sakurai would have gone with him" is an almost daily thing I see in the chat, and when I say all those things can apply to Lycanroc as well they respond with something along the lines of "after the rockruff evolved in the anime they sidelined it and it isn't prominent anymore." My entire time in that server only one person has agreed with me that incineroar isn't a lock (even though he thinks it'll be decidueye and not Lycanroc) and it's kinda sad seeing the effects of what vergeben has said this much.

I really do think we may be some of the only people left who aren't on the incineroar bandwagon, but the fact that we are still going and not abandoning ship even with the odds against us shows that we're determined to support the character we actually want, not just the one that everyone thinks is most likely. While yes it may be very difficult to rally more people to our cause, it's not impossible so we just have to keep pushing on until confirmation or deconfirmation. Sadly, people these days (from what I've seen so far) will pretty much believe anything you put in front of them, but like I said that only makes it difficult not impossible.

Delzethin I don't think I ever commented on your reply about the discord server so here we go. I agree that we need to be more open to the public for now to raise awareness, and that the server can wait for now. While it would be nice to talk about smash on a server without wanting to leave it out of frustration I respectfully accept your opinion on the matter. Maybe sometime in the future, but not now.

Now as a last part to this post I would like to talk about uniqueness and character related aspects. As probably none of you know, I am a writer (not a very good one, but I'm trying to improve) and the one thing I know how to do best is take an idea and make it into a unique character. I could be watching a movie, watching a show, listening to music, playing a game of some kind, all of these can inspire me to work with the things I've been shown. Heck, one of my mii fighters from smash 4 has become a fully fledged and original character in my writing and all I had to go off of was a default sword fighter. Let's just say I know my way around creating characters and making them unique. And knowing what I know, yes, I have come up with a decent character idea/character arc for an incineroar based character but I've created more than one for characters I have based on Lycanroc.

Sorry for the long winded rant, sometimes I don't know when to stop and with the stress I've been having recently I needed to get it out. To end off this post, I'd just like to say that I personally see so much more potential in Lycanroc than I do in incineroar, and I really hope Sakurai has been thinking the same way.

Yeah I feel the same way...

It gets annoying sometimes when I see Incineroar being the only one mentioned all the time. I get that Verge has been doing well so far, but the fact that his information is in the form of text leaks and receives information from other people, still opens up the possibility that they may get something wrong, especially with what Nintendo has been doing to prevent them.

And this gets even more annoying when people try to shoo in Incineroar into everything that TPC has done so far as if he is going to be the “real star” when Lycanroc simply had more attention, and basically ignoring what push Lycanroc has had over time as if it didn’t matter, and all the many things going for them not only in prominence, but moveset potential as well.

Though, sometimes I feel that I’m looking too much into things, and that when ever I go into some of the other threads I generally avoid talking about Lycanroc because I feel that I would get pushed aside and be called “biased” because of Verge and all. This feeling kinda sucks honestly, and it worsens when thinking about Incineroar being in after all. But I’m at least happy this thread is still around, and the people here that seem to still support Lycanroc with many things that are in their favor.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I am getting sudden chills now, for some reason, I feel the Pokemon newcomer is going to be revealed very soon.

Maybe it is just the remix that puts me into that gut feeling. :L

 

[Iridium]

I'll just put it out there that Lycanroc is easily one of my favorite Gen VII Pokémon, so my support is here. I can see the Link/Lycanroc team now, and I like it. I would love to think of a moveset, but I don't have time for now.

 

[Delzethin]

If we're still getting a Pokemon newcomer in the near future, then I have absolutely no idea why they didn't just wait another week or two until after the Gen VII reveal. Makes more sense, right?

The one week delay of the AC track made me believe the Music Theory, but now I'm not really sure what to believe. If it's still correct, then Verge would be wrong with his prediction of Incineroar. Sounds good at first, until you realize that this would mean Lycanroc is disconfirmed as well.

At the very least, something else we can discuss.

Yeah, that's the strange thing here. Every newcomer so far has been accompanied by music from their franchise, and we haven't yet seen them double up on one. And this theme being from Gen 3 (and also 6, if you include the remakes), unrelated to Gen 7, doesn't necessarily mean it's a break in pattern--Ridley was accompanied by a remix of Kraid's Lair, which doesn't tie into him either!

So one of a few things must be going on:

1. They're breaking pattern, and adding a Pokémon newcomer later without any accompanying music.

2. They're breaking pattern, and planning on adding a second Pokémon theme to the music list even though they haven't doubled up yet.

3. There is no Pokémon newcomer in the base roster.

Keep in mind, we can afford to play the long game in a way that no one else from Gen 7 can. If there is no one from Gen 7 in the base roster, there's a fair chance they'd look there early in DLC development, before Gen 8 officially starts. Remember, Smash 4 DLC was in development from approximately October-ish 2014 to February 2016, yet the latest release it pulled from was Fire Emblem Fates, which launched in Japan in June 2015. And if they looked at Gen 7 now, it'd be at a point where Lycanroc's prominence is fully realized and no longer just a plan.

Yeah I feel the same way...

It gets annoying sometimes when I see Incineroar being the only one mentioned all the time. I get that Verge has been doing well so far, but the fact that his information is in the form of text leaks and receives information from other people, still opens up the possibility that they may get something wrong, especially with what Nintendo has been doing to prevent them.

And this gets even more annoying when people try to shoo in Incineroar into everything that TPC has done so far as if he is going to be the “real star” when Lycanroc simply had more attention, and basically ignoring what push Lycanroc has had over time as if it didn’t matter, and all the many things going for them not only in prominence, but moveset potential as well.

Though, sometimes I feel that I’m looking too much into things, and that when ever I go into some of the other threads I generally avoid talking about Lycanroc because I feel that I would get pushed aside and be called “biased” because of Verge and all. This feeling kinda sucks honestly, and it worsens when thinking about Incineroar being in after all. But I’m at least happy this thread is still around, and the people here that seem to still support Lycanroc with many things that are in their favor.

That's what really gets under my skin, when people buy so hard into a rumor that all of their arguments and "proof" become built on the assumption that their premise must already be true. Suddenly, the shakiest evidence counts toward them, yet any evidence against it--or anything that exposes their evidence as flawed--gets dismissed as bias. So caught up in the sensation of feeling like they know the truth that they shout down anything that could question it.

Be careful, though. We want to make sure we don't go the complete opposite direction. Being hyprocrites about it would only make people hate us.

I'll just put it out there that Lycanroc is easily one of my favorite Gen VII Pokémon, so my support is here. I can see the Link/Lycanroc team now, and I like it. I would love to think of a moveset, but I don't have time for now.

Welcome! Don't worry, take all the time you need until your concept feels right. In the meantime, you're welcome to hang around the thread--we've been pretty active as of late.

 

[MasteRMerF]

I really hope we get our Pokemon newcomer soon. The wait is killing me and every blog post makes me nervous it'll be Lycanroc as a Pokeball

 

[valkiriforce]

Honestly I'm glad Pokemon music was posted, I'd like to see more curveball things disapprove possible theories just to create more of a surprise. I don't think it works against us because Pokemon is popular enough to get away with posting another music track should a newcomer require such a thing (which to be honest I'm not sure why it would).

 

[Maikou]

I really hope we get our Pokemon newcomer soon. The wait is killing me and every blog post makes me nervous it'll be Lycanroc as a Pokeball

Even if one of Lycanroc's forms turns out to be a Poke Ball, that doesn't necessarily disconfirm either of the others. If we DO get a Poke Ball Lycanroc, I'll remain confident as long as it's either Midday or Midnight, as I feel Dusk is really the best one to make playable. Even if Dusk is a Poke Ball, as long as neither Midday nor Midnight are Poke Ball mons, we could still see the double wolf idea. So long as we only get one form of Lycanroc as a Poke Ball, there'll still be a chance.

Keep in mind, we can afford to play the long game in a way that no one else from Gen 7 can. If there is no one from Gen 7 in the base roster, there's a fair chance they'd look there early in DLC development, before Gen 8 officially starts. Remember, Smash 4 DLC was in development from approximately October-ish 2014 to February 2016, yet the latest release it pulled from was Fire Emblem Fates, which launched in Japan in June 2015. And if they looked at Gen 7 now, it'd be at a point where Lycanroc's prominence is fully realized and no longer just a plan.

I agree with Delzethin here, and it's still worth considering that we might not get a Pokemon newcomer in the base game. If that happens, it's all the more reason to include a great Gen 7 mon like Lycanroc as DLC. We mustn't be careless: assuming there WILL be DLC is very dangerous, as even though we got DLC for Smash 4, and it was some really great DLC, we might not wind up with any for Ultimate. That said, it is pretty likely we'll eventually get DLC, as it did do well last time and it's honestly possible we could see characters who simply couldn't make it for the initial release make it in as DLC. Hope will never die!

 

[LukeRNG]

At the very least, that means the gens with few music tracks are getting some love. Here's hope for more gen 2 & 3 music, gen 2's ost especially is so underrated.

 

[RandomAce]

I really hope we get our Pokemon newcomer soon. The wait is killing me and every blog post makes me nervous it'll be Lycanroc as a Pokeball

Yeah, and it doesn’t help that it seems to be stacked against us because of Verge. But hopefully we can pull through. In fact, here is some fan art I found to keep you happy...

(Credit to: https://mobile.twitter.com/kemo_kemono, it was a little hard going back to find this again).

In the mean time, what do you think Lycanroc’s render pose should look like in Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, and I doesn’t help that it seems to be stacked against us because of Verge. But hopefully we can pull through. In fact, here is some fan fart I found to keep you happy...
View attachment 166715
(Credit to: https://mobile.twitter.com/kemo_kemono)

In the mean time, what do you think Lycanroc’s render pose should look like in Smash?

I can't decide if Midday or Midnight Lycanroc is more adorable here.

 

[GlaceonGD]

I really hope we get our Pokemon newcomer soon. The wait is killing me and every blog post makes me nervous it'll be Lycanroc as a Pokeball

Waiting through all this just to see lycanroc as a pokeball summon would crush me, because then all three of my favorite evolutionary trees will be stuck in pokeball limbo (eevee, vulpix, lycanroc). Let's hope we don't see that happening as it wouldn't only be a massive waste of potential but also quite upsetting to all the lycanroc fans.

On an unrelated topic to that, I'd just like to say that I don't believe either of the two sides on this one (vergeben and music theory). They both have evidence to support their claims but in the end only one can be right, or none of them which would be nice because then lycanroc still has a chance in the running. With every passing day I get more and more people telling me lycanroc will never happen and to quote someone from earlier "Lycanroc isn't very popular though" and "I just really think Lycanroc wouldn't be shown to Sakurai for a gen 7 rep" which is complete bs.

But y'know I'm used to it now, with how much of the same stuff I got for wanting eevee before he was deconfirmed (rip my most wanted character of all time, at least lycanroc still has a chance) so I just ignore it now. I've always been in the vocal minority but hey that sets me apart from the rest, means I'm willing to make my own predictions and not blindly follow a leaker because they get a few things right.

So yeah, nothing much really new today, just more of the same. Just have to keep pushing and hoping, because if incineroar really does get revealed I'm not sure I'm ready for the backlash I'd get from my friends and people in the servers I talk in. Hopefully our next smash direct is soon so we can see who our next newcomer is, waiting has never been something I'm good at doing.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Can we just take a moment and think, what if we actually end up with a gen 3 newcomer? It is technically possible, considering Gardevoir and Sceptile still have the ballot and ORAS, and Sceptile has the fact that he was the XY rival’s main Pokémon. These two could still be in the running, and I feel we will be seeing the new pokemon in the very near future.

 

[Delzethin]

In the mean time, what do you think Lycanroc’s render pose should look like in Smash?

So, has everyone noticed how Ultimate's renders have been designed with verticality in mind? The poses are more dynamic than they were in Smash 4, but they're done in a way that still makes it easy to design amiibo based on them. Not only that, but notice how the preview screen before each match starts has the character portraits arranged in adjacent columns? It's especially noticeable in the doubles matches we've seen.

An official render for Lycanroc would need to follow the same design philosophy. Which sounds like it'd be difficult for Midday or Dusk since they're more hortizonally oriented normally, but there's actually a very elegant solution: go with some kind of leaping pose.

Something like what was done for this TCG deck box art:

Spoiler: Big Image

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Something like what was done for this TCG deck box art:

Spoiler: Big Image

Could this be the artwork used for smash?!

 

[Delzethin]

Could this be the artwork used for smash?!

No, they wouldn't just copy art from the TCG. Especially since the art style is different. It's more that the concept and pose would probably be similar.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not sure if this would help at all, but the Castlevania collection on Switch Verge said back in E3 was revealed, but it is not the correct platform:

I am also unsure if this is the same source that leaked Simon, but if the above is any indication, there is a real possibility that Verge could be wrong on some matters now, even with all three of his sources confirming Incineroar.

 

[RandomAce]

I can't decide if Midday or Midnight Lycanroc is more adorable here.

They all are , you can’t get any better than a group of Lycanrocs trying to take care of some rockruffs.

So, has everyone noticed how Ultimate's renders have been designed with verticality in mind? The poses are more dynamic than they were in Smash 4, but they're done in a way that still makes it easy to design amiibo based on them. Not only that, but notice how the preview screen before each match starts has the character portraits arranged in adjacent columns? It's especially noticeable in the doubles matches we've seen.

An official render for Lycanroc would need to follow the same design philosophy. Which sounds like it'd be difficult for Midday or Dusk since they're more hortizonally oriented normally, but there's actually a very elegant solution: go with some kind of leaping pose.

Something like what was done for this TCG deck box art:

Spoiler: Big Image

I think the GX card art looks great as well...

Spoiler: Lycanroc GX

In my opinion, these are sick ass poses that are perfect for the team to design their character art on, and seem to show a great amount of personality and such. So I’m hoping these are the art that team will be willing to reference them on.

I couldn’t find any GX art for Dusk, but a pose that shares Midday’s feral pose and Midnight’s slash pose will look be great for it.