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Dark Sonic vs Phanna.

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
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Watched the first video..Impressive, you made no real consistent mistakes (as in bad habits or anything you really need to work on, although the up-bs were very desperate attempts at killing him.) and capitalized on phanna's the best you could for the most part.

He started on you pretty bad with his 2nd to last stock, I can't say much because would have probably be unable to defend myself either. You didn't seem to let it bother you on your next stock..good.

When samus is at high damage, try to land n-airs or b-airs over f-airs if possible but you did a good job staying lagless so you probably already knew that and just wanted to play it safe.

When samus is recovering by bomb jumping, don't be afraid to leap out and swap her, you'll still be able to make it back safely long as you are careful, b-air of course works good.

There really isn't anything I can tell you at this level of play...You don't need me to tell you your little mistakes as a player of your skill can easily see them...ask cactuar or emblem for advice, friendlies with people like that are out of my leaque as far as critquing because I probably couldn't do any better.

Good going Sonic. The reverse up-b and power shield were simply too good.

Curse that mindgame near the end with the charge blast, but I'm very glad you won that match.


And ugh!...all the hope I had in you disappeared as I started to watch the second video...sonic..lol..then again, phanna got screwed too.
 

Dreadlord Santa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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274
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I wasn't very impressed with Phanna's play here... your play was pretty solid, but the little holes that you had where you would make a mistake would largely go unpunished, while Phanna seemed to make a lot of mistakes that god punished pretty easily. I suppose that's a mark of solid play. Aside from that, I'm kind of falling asleep... I've been sitting around doing nothing for close to 3 hours now, and it's starting to play tricks with my mind, I'll see if I can't give more input when I'm in a better state of mind.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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Yeah I was a little suprised by his counter pick too.XD

I like how me and Phanna spent almost half the last match trading spots on the Fin. It wasn't going so well for me so I decided to camp on top instead. I felt kinda bad for camping though.
 

SOPF

Smash Apprentice
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Nice matches Sonic. Though Phanna did win the Japes match I liked your use of the current. You're like a wall of Fair.
 

Dark Sonic

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So, Emblem Lord and Cactuar, do you guys have any advice for me? I'm kinda suprised nobody is posting.:confused: I know that I should just look through my own video and pick out my own mistakes, but I like to get opinions from different perspectives. I play as a pretty aggressive Marth so my view of this match is going to be based accordingly. There's only so much that my perspective will allow me to see and I'd like to get a little advice from people that play differently than I do.
 

thebluedeath1000

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You're at a solid good marth level, I'm at that level. I don't feel like I could give you anything other than simple little tips and be precise about it due to I play different and we both can see our mistakes and improve.

I only think emblem or cactuar can really help you improve, unless ken or mew2king magically appears.
 

SOPF

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Yea, I would help but your better than me still I think. I improved so IDK right now but if you want I could try to critique you, but you would be better off with critiques from higher lvl players. See if Skrach would help you out. He's a solid Marth, but unless you PM him personally I don't think he'll even look through the Marth boards.

Also, I wasn't sure whether you wanted advice or you were just putting up some entertaining Marth vids. I feel kinda stupid about that now but you didn't say you sought advice in the title of the thread.
 

thebluedeath1000

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I don't critque someone unless I'm sure I'm quite abit better than them so my advice wouldn't hurt their style much if any, it would only cause them to improve.

I don't give advice when I'm not sure. You did fine, you don't need anyone like me to help you, you only need elilte advice now, from very well known pros.

Because advice from people like me, even if its right, won't be as beneficital considering you've already got a very solid marth.
 

Dark Sonic

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Okay, I'll try PMing Emblem Lord and Cactuar and I'll talk to Skrach about it at the next gigs. I was kinda trying to kill two birds with one stone here by posting a Marth vs Samus vid right after someone made a Marth vs Samus thread. I still hope they'll post their critiques here so it can help other players, but if I only get some PMs it's fine
 

JesiahTEG

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Even if people aren't at Dark Sonic's skill level, we can still critique him. I can pick out mistakes of M2K's videos, and he's 10X better than me. It's not hard to see people's mistakes.
 

Eggz

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Phanna needs to get smarter. Just sayin', blind tech skill isn't going to work. And don't say its not blind, because a lot of the approaches he tried wouldn't work against someone good.

Just sayin, Aftermath where it at. >_>
 

technomancer

Smash Champion
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May 17, 2006
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2,053
Look just cuz you west coast people get to play hugs doesn't mean ... wait yeah probably it does
 

Raistlin

Smash Lord
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Dark Sonic is redonkulous. Epic comeback on the Corneria match. Although I got one tip. Either don't counterpick Corneria, or if you do, try to stay away from the fin. You started winning once you stopped trying to fin-gay him. I'd suggest Green Greens, because it's small on all sides, though he might be able to camp behind the blocks. Try and **** him out of his up-B more often, and jab those missles away.

And I guess that was way more than one tip.
 

Emblem Lord

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You wanted advice? Here we go. I'm gonna unleash it on you.

I'll start off by saying you did good in the first match. Now for the critique. I'm going to give specific instances of where you could of did soemthing better. And overall play advice as well.

Here we go.

Video 1

00:05 - Missed a chance for an easy grab. You threw out a d-tilt aand could of went from there, but didn't.

00:08 - Went for a fair. I guess you reacted late to Samus being above you. Anyway you should have just attacked sooner or did an u-tilt. Another little trick is to waveland onto a platoform and grab. People really don't expect it.

00:15 - Did a full hop fair and ate Samus's boot because of it. If you want to feint at an opponent you have to make sure they can't punish you or if they try to punish they set themself up for punishment themselves. Watch your spacing.

00:21 - You knocked her away and didn't chase. Why?

00:26 - That wavedash back was unnecessary. You could have just let an f-smash rip, or a reverse dolphin slash. Reognize when you need to space yourself and when you can just attack. Your choice cost you an easy kill.

00:30 - Samus did a bomb jump to avoid your attack. You should have expected that. You should have been DIing backwards as soon as you saw her bomb jump. Then jumped back after the fair was over witha bair. I'm fairly certain you would have hit her and set-up for an easy edge guard. Learn to recognize when your opponent can escape your attempts to attack them and then use it to your advantage.

00:48 - You really like getting hit with those plasma shots. Just something I noticed.

00:52 - Should have went out and attacked Samus.

From 01:00 to 02:00 - There were alot of times where you just didn't edge guard Samus at all. Edge guard Samus plz.

02:18 - Samus was invincible and you stood there and let her grab you pretty much.

02:24 - That was a bad time to forward b. Just like I said earlier about waiting for people to try to attempt to get away from your attacks. Phanna did it to you here. Punished your use of forward b to avoid getting hit and you got hit anyway. See? It works.

02:28 - In close proximity it's generally better to nair through missles or shield then WD from shield, roll, or JC aerial from shield.

02:36 - Where was the shield?

03:38 - Should have followed up with a full hop fair after your forward throw.

05:25 - Ok, to be honest this charge shot shouldn't have hit you. The sound is completely different from a missile. And you had plenty of time to be able to tell the difference.

05:30 - Stood there with your shield up and got grabbed. You should be avoiding Samus' grab on reaction.

Overall your play was solid. There are just somethings you need to improve upon. For one thing you never went out to hit Samus when she was off the stage. There really isn't much she can do to stop you. You can slice right thourgh bombs or missiles. Just run off and fair, Shield break, or reverse dolphin slash. There is no drawback to attempting this once you get good at it. Worse case scenario is that you miss. So what? Try again. Best case scenario is that you get a kill. Always edge guard Samus. Always. You were also very fond of full jump fairs. I know what this strat is all about. Zoning and space control. But you may want to mix-up with double jumped FF fairs.

It's a little less vulnerable and it's a little more aggressive. also you will fall faster after a double jump. Whenever Samus was on the ledge you would always do a long wavedash back. Why? You have nothing to fear. Space yourself so her ledge attack won't reach you and then you can retaliate. There is no reason for you to back off like that. If you space yourself correctly, there is very little she can do to avoid getting knocked back off the stage when she tries to get back on. Another thing you may want to try is perfectly spaced SH Fairs. If Samus takes the first hit she will most likely attempt to CC in which case you can come down with a Dair. If she shields she may attempt to JC aerial, but with good spacing you'll be safe. Also you threw quite a few d-smashes. Phanna was slow in trying to punish you when he shieled, but everytime you did one of those, I had a thought. That though being, " Dark Sonic just died. Which would have happened if Phanna had been on the ball with punishing you. Don't rely on that d-smash so much.

Video 2

00:00 to 00:20 - Seeing ALOT of blind aggression here. Learn to focus that fury.

00:06 - You really should have expected a CC here. It was obvious that you were going to FF an aerial. You should have did a Dair so she couldn't CC. Either that or FF and grab.

00:17 - You died foolishly thanks to being overly aggressive and not thinking. Be aggressive if you want. Just be smart about it.

00:25 - As soon as that missle touched your shield you should have buffered a roll or JCed from your shield.

01:20 - That was a free grab.

02:55 - You didn't need to wave dash back like that. Lucky for you Phanna killed himself. You tend to do that alot. Break that habit. You mess up edgeguarding opporunities by doing that. Especially since you slid off and grabbed the ledge.

You really screwed up in this match. You were reckless and made many mistakes. Pretty much everything I said about your first vid should be applied here. Also you need to plpay alot smarter in general. For the most part in this match you just made bad decisions and were very predictable in your approaches and your methods of retaliation.

You seemed to like those shuffled nairs, but did them at bad times. You used full hop fairs far too much. I didn't see any JC grabs or d-tilts. Just fairs for the most part. That's not good. You can't win or get better if you don't use the tools available to you. The main thing that you should take from this match is that you need to laern to play smarter and safer. Don't do something if it will put you in danger or a disadvantageous position.

Video 3

Why did you even counterpick this vs Samus? Why would you counter pick this at all? Marth sucks on this stage and Samus does pretty well. Anyway, I can't really critique this because it was mostly just fin abuse on both sides. When you guys actually did fight I saw some mistakes on your part here and there. One time you got a tippered fair and could have grabbed, but you chose to nair instead. Once you did a d-throw and chose to f-smash, but you could have f-tilted or chased with an aerial. Little things like that. Watch the vid some more to catch those mistakes and think about how you can correct them.

In all honesty no Marth shouldn't be counter picking this stage vs Samus. And if you are gonna counter pick this stage then you need to make sure you are d*mn good at abusing the fin and that know how to stop fin abusers as well. Generally if your opponent grabs the fin. You wait for there ledge dropped aerial. Then let them up b and hit them out of the up b.

Well, that's pretty much it from me.

Hope I helped.
 

thebluedeath1000

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I believe I rubbed off on emblem.

What do you think?

And jesiah, if you critque mew2king, you're a noob.

I look at it to only crtique those below my level because I like to have reasoning behind me giving them advice, because I'm better.

I wouldn't give advice to someone my level or above, it just doesn't seem right, I'd rather someone higher did, that way, I make no mistakes.
 

Dreadlord Santa

Smash Journeyman
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Ha, guess there's no point in going and critiquing now that Emblem Lord has shown himself. I didn't have anything else to add, anyway. Good **** Emblem, way to not be uber lazy like me
 

Emblem Lord

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Rofl@ blue. I have always critqued people's vids this way.

Silly blue.
 

Dark Sonic

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Thanks for the critique Emblem Lord. I'll definately try to tone down my aggression a little bit.

I picked Corneria because I was hoping that the sides being close to the edges would help. I'm also normally very good at abusing the fin. It happens to be one of my favorite stages and Phanna didn't seem to like it too much. He banned YS and I didn't want to go battlefield because of the size of the level and my overall bad edgeguarding on Samus. I starting doing a lot better as soon as I stopped trying to compete with him for the Fin and brought the fight back up, but I admit that it was only because he voluntarily followed me and made quite a few mistakes when he got up there.

I'll make sure to take these into account at the next gigs I go to (especially that wavedashing back part).
 

JesiahTEG

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I believe I rubbed off on emblem.

And jesiah, if you critque mew2king, you're a noob.
Not true. I can critique M2K and point out his mistakes. IN FACT, I even told him on AIM he shouldn't have done something that he did, and he said he knows, cuz he made a mistake and explained to me what he was thinking, but acknowledged the fact that he could have chosen a better option. Am I a noob? No, I just pointed out his mistake. If I were in that same situation as he was I probably wouldn't have been able to think fast enough to react appropriately, because I am not as good as M2K, but watching videos I can still see what he does wrong. If you can't see what he does wrong...Then look harder I guess.

It's just like people watching football. In fact, yes, this is a perfect example. If the quarterback is under pressure and throws to someone being double teamed, the ball gets intercepted. Then people at home watching the replay, who would get absolutely ***** in the NFL, would watch the replay and say "Come on, you could have thrown it to X, who is wide open." It happens allll the time. It's the same exact thing.

No hard feelings pal.:laugh:
 

thebluedeath1000

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A person of his skill, can easily see what he does wrong. So can many others.

I don't need to explain that. Its just a lower opinion of something isn't needed as the player of that level can help themselves just as good if not better untill a higher up advises them.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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I love talking to M2K about his mindset during matches and his mistakes. You can learn alot from having an objective discussion with a player about a match.
 

JesiahTEG

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I see what your saying Blue, about how M2K can see his own mistakes better than I can, but I can still point out his mistakes.

Also, I don't think EL is that much better than me. :)

He's definitely a lot cooler than me though.
 

Ijuka

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Concentrating on single mistakes makes my head hurt. X_x

Just general advice. >_> Helps a lot more. And concentrating on the playing style itself rather than the video. >_>

Ah well. -.-
 

Emblem Lord

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rofl.

I'm not good I just know stuff. And commenting on individual instances gives support to my overall critique. It shows that I know what I'm talking about because I can give examples to back up what I'm saying. And it helps the person I'm critiqueing as well. They can see for themselves what exactly I'm tlakking about when I give advice about a particular as pect of thier game.

Wanna know what makes my head hurt? When people can't handle criticism when they asked for it in the first place and make up lame excuses for how they play when someone critiques thier vids and points out thier mistakes or things they could improve upon.

:chuckle:
 

thebluedeath1000

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Emblem lord is indeed good, don't be so modest because you sure talk **** to me at least emblem...lol

Anyway, I suppose its more of an honor thing with me, just a matter of respecting someones skill and letting them deal with it on their own unless its during a match in person that I"M the person they are playing and they ask something specific..

I see your points though, different viewpoints are good.
 

JesiahTEG

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No bluedeath, I know he's good, I just said I don't think he's that much better than me. Lol I deff know he's good, dont worry.
 

Dark Sonic

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I was just wondering, what exactly makes Corneria a bad Marth stage? Is it the lack of platforms? The un even ground messes with chainthrowing a little, but I don't see why Marth wouldn't like that level. I'd say it's better than Pokefloats or Jungle Japes and stuff like that. I just like counter picking levels that my opponents don't normally play on.

Speaking of wierd counter picks. Do you guys think it'd be okay to pick mute city against a Samus. I don;t see any problem with it for either me or Samus, but I'm willing to bet I play that level more often than my opponent.

What makes Corneria a good Samus stage? I know that Samus can camp the fin, but what's the big deal? If you're winning you can just go to the top and she'll have to follow. I don't think it's enough to make up for the low cieling and lack of platforms for missle spamming, Up Bing, and whatever Samus would do with platforms. That's mostly why Phanna likes PS. He likes platforms.
 

Emblem Lord

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Samus can camp the fin better. Marth dies off the top easily. Uneven ground messes up his edgeguarding and his cging.

It's not a horrible Marth stage, but it's definitely not good. And anyone can out camp Marth on this stage that has a decent projectile.

Why Phanna didn't camp you is beyond my comprehension.
 

Dark Sonic

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^^ You can camp with missles? I mean on a level like PS or Jungle Japes Phanna does that whole platform missle cancel thing, but what would he do on this stage?

I guess Phanna's just wierd. Lol.

Could you answer my other question though? Is mute city an okay counter pick against Samus? I just want to refrain from platform levels against Phanna (not Samus, just Phanna) and the lack of edges would make edgeguarding a little easier for me (though it goes both ways). My only major concern is that the small platforms might make spacing difficult. The small stage would also mean I get knocked off more frequently and get edgeguarded more often. It's a real toss up for me and I don't know if I'd be better off going with a more common stage.

In case mute city doesn't work out, how about FD? I know that Samus live forever there, but the same would apply to me and Phanna wouldn't have those platforms he likes so much.
 

Emblem Lord

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Mute city is pretty much an all purpose counter pick for Marth. Except for maybe Peach, but even then he still does well there.

FD vs Samus? Well neither one of you has a huge advantage there. Platforms work better for you then they do fo her.

I would just go to Yoshi's or BF.
 
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