mofo_
Smash Ace
maybe less floaty than samus but a bit faster?
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Dark Samus for Brawl+: Now with less brokeness [July 8th Update]
- Thread starter Jiangjunizzy
- Start date
- Status
bajisci
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 558
secondedddd
mofo_
Smash Ace
since zair puts her freefall and up+b is like a spike, you should make up+b go higher and increase air speed cuz people can meteor cancel and edgehog, which is what a CPU did to me.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
i made her fall faster, and i purposefully made many of her moves slower and some even weaker. shes not supposed to be an upgrade of samus at all.
The_Blue_Bomber
Smash Journeyman
Actually we can, I have them. Check the texture guide thread, the code is in the OP. He just hasn't changed the title yet.we can't get textures anyway
I don't think I can use them personally. I've tried and the codes appear to apply, but they don't actually do anything.
Probably something to do with some of the stuff I did, like changing region, in order to get some of my apps working.
If anyone knows a way around it I'd appreciate the info.
Probably something to do with some of the stuff I did, like changing region, in order to get some of my apps working.
If anyone knows a way around it I'd appreciate the info.
Clever_Sleazoid
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 188
How the hell does fair become SO overpowered? Lol. 64%
jalued
Smash Lord
how do i intergrate the codes from this into my brawl+ 4.1 set? do u have a text file i could use? or a codeset that i can copy/paste onto code manager? want to try this with B+ and not sure how to
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
dark samus codeset uses the most recent B+ codes as well. just download the codeset from the OP and it will be B+.
jalued
Smash Lord
just a thought about the bombs... i think that atm its kinda stupid with the massivly large invisable hitbox. i mean, its more rediculous than snakes uptilt lol.
maybe you could make them have stun ability and 0 knockback and gain, or have a kinda sucking into ability like a black hole (with a black hole animation instead of explosion). cause that would be very good for combo set ups (exactly as u want for dark samus tbh lol) and would fit the character perfectly
oh and her fair is FAR too powerful, the upsmash is stupidly good, her fsamsh is also stupid and too fast. running attack is nice though
dont like the dtilt, seems like a waste of a move that no one will ever use, perhaps it could hit behind her. stunning seems useless imo
missile are nice
z-air is a nice idea, but too strong atm
upB is fine i guess
im thinking is it possible to maybe,once the bomb explode on impact code comes out, that samus's bombs DO explode on contact, but dark samus's DONT. cause would be nice to have some more differences between the 2 characters. also if the blackhole idea is implimented, then tbh Darksamus would have the better mines, so makes sense that they need to be harder to hit with (no exploding on impact)
also, i feel there is too many dark energy effects, it should be selective for some moves. but thinks like running attack etc it just seems out of place, and if there is too much of it, it just becomes tiresome to the eyes after a while
btw, any chance that her missile could be controllable for explosion? as in, press side B a second time then explodes the missile (and make them alot stronger and have infinite range). that would be cool :D
also, have been thinking about the whole dark samus stuff. is there any way that dark samus could have like a kinda lucario aura about her?? the more she gets hurt, the angryer she gets. makes sense, maybe u could change it slightly if its possible so that the angryer she gets, the slower her moves get to balance it. would be cool. just trying to make her more unique, add or take away things to these ideas if u wish
or maybe only her melee moves (not ones with fire etc, like her fair,upsmash, but ones that actually need contact like her nair,fsmash etc) get stronger, but her ranged stay same/get weaker, so it changes her playstyle slightly
maybe you could make them have stun ability and 0 knockback and gain, or have a kinda sucking into ability like a black hole (with a black hole animation instead of explosion). cause that would be very good for combo set ups (exactly as u want for dark samus tbh lol) and would fit the character perfectly
oh and her fair is FAR too powerful, the upsmash is stupidly good, her fsamsh is also stupid and too fast. running attack is nice though
dont like the dtilt, seems like a waste of a move that no one will ever use, perhaps it could hit behind her. stunning seems useless imo
missile are nice
z-air is a nice idea, but too strong atm
upB is fine i guess
im thinking is it possible to maybe,once the bomb explode on impact code comes out, that samus's bombs DO explode on contact, but dark samus's DONT. cause would be nice to have some more differences between the 2 characters. also if the blackhole idea is implimented, then tbh Darksamus would have the better mines, so makes sense that they need to be harder to hit with (no exploding on impact)
also, i feel there is too many dark energy effects, it should be selective for some moves. but thinks like running attack etc it just seems out of place, and if there is too much of it, it just becomes tiresome to the eyes after a while
btw, any chance that her missile could be controllable for explosion? as in, press side B a second time then explodes the missile (and make them alot stronger and have infinite range). that would be cool :D
also, have been thinking about the whole dark samus stuff. is there any way that dark samus could have like a kinda lucario aura about her?? the more she gets hurt, the angryer she gets. makes sense, maybe u could change it slightly if its possible so that the angryer she gets, the slower her moves get to balance it. would be cool. just trying to make her more unique, add or take away things to these ideas if u wish
or maybe only her melee moves (not ones with fire etc, like her fair,upsmash, but ones that actually need contact like her nair,fsmash etc) get stronger, but her ranged stay same/get weaker, so it changes her playstyle slightly
colored blind
Smash Journeyman
I want to help this get off the ground. A lot of people are talking about it, but not much progress seems to have been made. I'll help with what I can, but I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for...
As for suggestions:
Bombs: Replace the explosion with the appropriate sized Din's Fire texture if you can. Like one of the above posters mentioned, a large invisible hitbox isn't a great idea.
Ftilt and Utilt: Speed up their startup frames and give them relatively low knockback and damage, so that she has some zoning she can do on the ground. Maybe make them comboable into a Fair if possible.
Zair: The idea is good, but people are right, it's too strong right now. Make it pop them up and behind her, because then they'll still fall into your traps, but it won't be ridiculously good for pulling people offstage.
Fair: Obviously, this move is wtfhax right now. If the Dtilt currently stuns, I think that idea should be applied to all of her flamethrower type moves. Make this stun, but give it enough startup lag that you can't combo Fairs into each other. That way, you can hit with something else, but you can't keep them permanently stunned by chaining Fairs. Make the damage decent, as with the startup lag it may prove hard to hit with. Each hit dragging into the next is fine, just make sure you're conscious of the damage it does.
Usmash: Basically the same as Fair, though if you give it enough knockback, I don't think you have to worry about people being able to combo Usmashes into each other.
Other:
Obviously, you're making her physics a lot different. Heavier and a fastfaller is the direction you're moving in if I'm correct, and I'm inclined to say it's going to be one of the biggest ways to set DS apart from Samus, especially since the latter is well known for her general floatiness.
I don't exactly know what kind of feedback you're looking for from the community. I can definitely help with playtesting during the summer if that's what you want, but I know nothing about the actual hacking.
As for suggestions:
Bombs: Replace the explosion with the appropriate sized Din's Fire texture if you can. Like one of the above posters mentioned, a large invisible hitbox isn't a great idea.
Ftilt and Utilt: Speed up their startup frames and give them relatively low knockback and damage, so that she has some zoning she can do on the ground. Maybe make them comboable into a Fair if possible.
Zair: The idea is good, but people are right, it's too strong right now. Make it pop them up and behind her, because then they'll still fall into your traps, but it won't be ridiculously good for pulling people offstage.
Fair: Obviously, this move is wtfhax right now. If the Dtilt currently stuns, I think that idea should be applied to all of her flamethrower type moves. Make this stun, but give it enough startup lag that you can't combo Fairs into each other. That way, you can hit with something else, but you can't keep them permanently stunned by chaining Fairs. Make the damage decent, as with the startup lag it may prove hard to hit with. Each hit dragging into the next is fine, just make sure you're conscious of the damage it does.
Usmash: Basically the same as Fair, though if you give it enough knockback, I don't think you have to worry about people being able to combo Usmashes into each other.
Other:
Obviously, you're making her physics a lot different. Heavier and a fastfaller is the direction you're moving in if I'm correct, and I'm inclined to say it's going to be one of the biggest ways to set DS apart from Samus, especially since the latter is well known for her general floatiness.
I don't exactly know what kind of feedback you're looking for from the community. I can definitely help with playtesting during the summer if that's what you want, but I know nothing about the actual hacking.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
i'm out of town, so i can't really work on it; i'm glad you guys are interested.
jalued
Smash Lord
oh i like that all fire attacks stunning idea, would be cool to be able to upsmash to bair etc. but it doesnt really make any sense for a fire attack (imo).
adding zelda fireball animation is a good idea, or if u continue with your stunning idea, that her bombs stun as well, not kill (my idea
) is it possible to make those type of attacks have electric effect so that it makes mroe sense? still dont like the dtilt stunning though, it seems kinda silly and not very useful. what about cotinuing the ice attack (like the missile) theme, where it makes the oppnent into an ice cube, that you can then follow up with. would not be OP, as opponent takes half damage when frozen
im happy to help for testing, but like coloured i know nothing about actual hacking. gl with this, am really up for it
Dan_X
Smash Lord
I'm not sure how DS currently plays, as I have not yet tried her out but I'll point out how I think she should play and feel.
•super missiles are ice missiles. This is an obvious change, one I understand has been impelemented. Perhaps they should fire faster but have some sort of delay so that they can't be spammed. You should be able to make good use of freezing an enemy, so it would have to trap them long enough to be useful.
•I would absolutely love if she moved much more differently than Samus. I really think DS should be a fast faller-- like Falco. She should be quick in the air, nimble, anything save for floaty. In addition, perhaps she can have a slightly faster running speed.
•her neutral B energy balls should be changed in color, perhaps to a red energy ball (i associate red with evil, and dark samus is evil). In addition, it'd be cool if her attacks gave off a dark energy of some sort. Her Usmash's flames should be edited in color, all flame attacks should. Just make them destinguishable from regular Samus.
That's all I can think of for now... But I'd definately love to see her far more swift than Samus.
What do you guys think?
•super missiles are ice missiles. This is an obvious change, one I understand has been impelemented. Perhaps they should fire faster but have some sort of delay so that they can't be spammed. You should be able to make good use of freezing an enemy, so it would have to trap them long enough to be useful.
•I would absolutely love if she moved much more differently than Samus. I really think DS should be a fast faller-- like Falco. She should be quick in the air, nimble, anything save for floaty. In addition, perhaps she can have a slightly faster running speed.
•her neutral B energy balls should be changed in color, perhaps to a red energy ball (i associate red with evil, and dark samus is evil). In addition, it'd be cool if her attacks gave off a dark energy of some sort. Her Usmash's flames should be edited in color, all flame attacks should. Just make them destinguishable from regular Samus.
That's all I can think of for now... But I'd definately love to see her far more swift than Samus.
What do you guys think?
colored blind
Smash Journeyman
Well...He mentioned he wasn't really doing textures yet, but I assumed that he had a goal to replace all the fire textures with...Dark textures. You know, a la Phazonfair. Which would make the stun stuff look fine.
Dan_X
Smash Lord
bump for justice.
BKonch
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2009
- Messages
- 15
instead of taking out the homing missiles, how about:
make it have no knockback or stun, like fox's laser.
+maybe slow approaching enemies down a little bit during explosion
make it send out a scattershot of them.
+still homing, but fly straight after a given time, don't blow up until making contact with enemy, object, or stage
make it chargeable, increasing
+number of missiles: minimum 3, max 7
+amount of time missiles track enemies
make it have no knockback or stun, like fox's laser.
+maybe slow approaching enemies down a little bit during explosion
make it send out a scattershot of them.
+still homing, but fly straight after a given time, don't blow up until making contact with enemy, object, or stage
make it chargeable, increasing
+number of missiles: minimum 3, max 7
+amount of time missiles track enemies
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
everything after this made me lol at how incredibly hard it would be to program.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
Ok guys, give it a try. She's now in the latest nightly and she has some new tricks up her sleeves; as well as being much more balanced.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
*downloads*
jalued
Smash Lord
can u please make a list of the changes
Gregory2590
Smash Journeyman
Just played as her. I actually find her funner than her normal counterpart. I like how you made her UP B have spiking properties.
gnosis
Smash Lord
One thing I noticed is that when you land during the early part of an aerial there's a loooong recovery animation. Fortunately you can interrupt it so it's just aesthetic.
Also while playing with this codeset, in a Wolf v. Mario match on Yoshi's Island (not the pipes), characters would freeze in animations when they stood still. Like instead of standing there and having an idle animation, they'd just be stuck on a single frame. If you walked and stopped without jumping/shielding/etc., you'd be stuck on a walking frame. This you could also interrupt, so again it's only aesthetic.
I don't know if this is just Brawl+ errors I hadn't noticed before playing with this codeset or what.
Good job on Dark Samus though. Haven't got a chance to play around with her much but she seems like a cool take on Samus's moveset so far.
Also while playing with this codeset, in a Wolf v. Mario match on Yoshi's Island (not the pipes), characters would freeze in animations when they stood still. Like instead of standing there and having an idle animation, they'd just be stuck on a single frame. If you walked and stopped without jumping/shielding/etc., you'd be stuck on a walking frame. This you could also interrupt, so again it's only aesthetic.
I don't know if this is just Brawl+ errors I hadn't noticed before playing with this codeset or what.
Good job on Dark Samus though. Haven't got a chance to play around with her much but she seems like a cool take on Samus's moveset so far.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i like the changes. she seems to be more balanced now. once you find a way to make both of her missiles the ice missiles/make some changes to her charge shot she could be even better.
colored blind
Smash Journeyman
A full change list would be greatly appreciated. I look forward to trying her out.
WhalesOnStilts
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 33
nevermind its working now
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
A text would be great for those of us who iso hack and need to use snapshots.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
I've added a txt for those who want it.
The Immortal Sir NZ
Smash Apprentice
Roy's codeset has the same problem, something about going over the animation limit with the new characters or something.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
out of curiosity, how did you manage to make the end lag of her aerials cancelable? do you have a separate code, or is it just a 'feature'?
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
it's a bug. well, not really. i wanted dark samus to have some aerial lag, but it turns out she has IASA frames like right near the beginning, so she cancels all of it anyway. I'm currently trying to figure out a way to give her landing lag.
GameSystem
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2008
- Messages
- 314
Keep working on it jiang, don't listen to whatever ark says.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
fyi, next time just call it a 'feature' and say you're 'most likely taking it out in the next build'. makes it sound more professional.
EDIT: Never mind. If I want to see it, I should just download it.
markopoleoh
Smash Cadet
when i load the codes, it says to many codes and then dark samus doesnt work because of that, do you know how i can fix it?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
do you have the latest gecko and gameconfig.txt in your sd card?
PyrobyteX
Smash Rookie
Is there any way I can use the Dark Samus mod WITHOUT having all the other characters somewhat enhanced?
colored blind
Smash Journeyman
He doesn't have a vBrawl codeset up, so no.
Okay, after some playing, I have a few thoughts:
Her Dtilt is awesome. It's hard to get off most of the time, but I think it's fine as is.
Ftilt is really useful. It's a good keep away move and it's fast. Speeding it up a little more may make it fit better as her keepaway move, but that's up to you.
I don't really understand the point of her Utilt. She already has an Usmash and Fsmash for killing, so...what is this being used as? I haven't played much, so if someone could enlighten me, that'd be cool.
Her Usmash is a good killer. It makes it hard to approach DS high.
Her Fsmash is fine. A lot of power, a lot of lag.
Didn't get to use Dsmash much, so can't really voice an opinion here.
I think it'd be cool if her pummel were slowed down and did more damage to make up for it, but not really for any other reason than to make DS more unique than her counterpart.
Her Nair is awesome. A strong, long lasting, but laggy aerial is fine.
Her Fair seems kinda lame with the Nair. I can't really tell if it stuns, but it knocks them too far away to be useful if that's the case.
Her Uair is tricky, and was really good for racking up damage. Because of the weird trajectory, sometimes things like Uair > Zair were possible.
Bair is a straight up killing move, but it's pretty much exactly like Samus' from what I could tell.
Her Dair seems...just like a lame version of Samus'. I couldn't find very much utility for it because it brings most enemies down at the same speed as DS, and they tended to recover quicker. It think it'd find more use if it popped them up weakly and recovered fast. It'd be a big difference from Samus' trademark spike. Maybe make it combo into a Double Jump Uair at midpercents for more tricks.
Zair does exactly what you meant it to. A lot of tricks using that and her bombs.
Same goes for her grab in general. A throw that's relatively weak and places them in front of you would be really useful. You could make it techable, but if they don't tech it, it combos into a Dtilt, making the opponent watch out for it. I dunno. Just throwing out ideas.
Her bombs are spectacular. I like them a lot.
I didn't use her missles much, but I should have. They were pretty useful when I did.
Her screw attack was fine.
I didn't use her charge shot very much either...I'm not used to playing Samus at all, so I just forgot about this one.
I think that covers most of her moveset. When I could pull of tricks and traps, it was really neat, but sometimes it was difficult getting them to work, especially considering most of her moves knock them far away. A few more set up moves that could lead into a Dtilt or Zair with bad DI/techs would help her playstyle a lot.
Edit: Bolded the names of the attacks when I was talking about them so you could look for whatever moves you were concerned about.
Okay, after some playing, I have a few thoughts:
Her Dtilt is awesome. It's hard to get off most of the time, but I think it's fine as is.
Ftilt is really useful. It's a good keep away move and it's fast. Speeding it up a little more may make it fit better as her keepaway move, but that's up to you.
I don't really understand the point of her Utilt. She already has an Usmash and Fsmash for killing, so...what is this being used as? I haven't played much, so if someone could enlighten me, that'd be cool.
Her Usmash is a good killer. It makes it hard to approach DS high.
Her Fsmash is fine. A lot of power, a lot of lag.
Didn't get to use Dsmash much, so can't really voice an opinion here.
I think it'd be cool if her pummel were slowed down and did more damage to make up for it, but not really for any other reason than to make DS more unique than her counterpart.
Her Nair is awesome. A strong, long lasting, but laggy aerial is fine.
Her Fair seems kinda lame with the Nair. I can't really tell if it stuns, but it knocks them too far away to be useful if that's the case.
Her Uair is tricky, and was really good for racking up damage. Because of the weird trajectory, sometimes things like Uair > Zair were possible.
Bair is a straight up killing move, but it's pretty much exactly like Samus' from what I could tell.
Her Dair seems...just like a lame version of Samus'. I couldn't find very much utility for it because it brings most enemies down at the same speed as DS, and they tended to recover quicker. It think it'd find more use if it popped them up weakly and recovered fast. It'd be a big difference from Samus' trademark spike. Maybe make it combo into a Double Jump Uair at midpercents for more tricks.
Zair does exactly what you meant it to. A lot of tricks using that and her bombs.
Same goes for her grab in general. A throw that's relatively weak and places them in front of you would be really useful. You could make it techable, but if they don't tech it, it combos into a Dtilt, making the opponent watch out for it. I dunno. Just throwing out ideas.
Her bombs are spectacular. I like them a lot.
I didn't use her missles much, but I should have. They were pretty useful when I did.
Her screw attack was fine.
I didn't use her charge shot very much either...I'm not used to playing Samus at all, so I just forgot about this one.
I think that covers most of her moveset. When I could pull of tricks and traps, it was really neat, but sometimes it was difficult getting them to work, especially considering most of her moves knock them far away. A few more set up moves that could lead into a Dtilt or Zair with bad DI/techs would help her playstyle a lot.
Edit: Bolded the names of the attacks when I was talking about them so you could look for whatever moves you were concerned about.
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