Dark Pit's Future in Smash Bros & Beyond

[Strider_Bond00J]

Dark Pit - one of the most controversial characters in the Super Smash Bros roster to date, being an extremely easy clone of Pit in both canon Kid Icarus and Smash Bros. We know that he was originally an alternate character for Pit (Alph and the Koopalings), but promoted with relative ease as a last-minute clone (Like Dr. Mario and Lucina). I don't mind his presence in the game at all, and he's one of my secondaries. But what do you think his future is in Super Smash Bros and Kid Icarus?

Do you think that in seven years time, he'll return as a veteran but with significant changes to his style like Falco or Luigi, get a revamped moveset reflective of the various weapon types in KIU or a new KI game he'd be involved in, or will he return as an alternate character as he was originally planned for? Perhaps in that seven years time, Kid Icarus might see a new game and Dark Pit plays a role in it, since we have their Guidance Conversation leaving enough room for a sequel to be imagined... Who knows what fate has in mind for the dark angel?

Also: No Dark Pit bashing and saying that you'll love it when he gets cut because Kid Icarus isn't worthy of being in Smash when we should get more Donkey Kong representation, okay? ...And who's getting the DP amiibo day one? ...Okay, I'm going to be the only one then.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Sakurai said that he doesn't want to make any future Smash Bros games, so now we have another variable to take into account; who will be the next director?

If Sakurai changes his mind and does it, I'll expect Dark Pit to be a clone for the same reason Doctor Mario is in this game; he didn't want to make a veteran into a simple alt.

But I'm not sure what other game directors who care less for Kid Icarus will do.
I'm really hoping for a luigified Pittoey and Lucina in the future though.

Either way, only time will tell...and there's going to be a lot of time before the next Smash.

I think I'll try to nab a Pittoey amiibo as well.
It'll look nice next to my Pit one.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

He's probably going to get axed (same goes for Lucina, since both are clones).

As much as I love him & his personality (not as annoying as Pit is) he's good as gone whenever Smash 5 starts developing, as for Dr. Mario, I think he's here to stay, since Mario's not getting his old Down B attack anytime soon.

I would love to get a Dark Pit amiibo, he would be great alongside my current Disney Infinity collection (only he would probably outsize my Ralph and Baymax figures, considering that the Amiibos outsize DI figures).

 

[Tepig2000]

I think he has a fairly decent chance of getting the Luigi treatment next game.

 

[Deleted member]

Considering all the hate he gets I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone next Smash, if there is a next Smash. Of course I don't want that to happen since he's one of my secondary mains and I'll be a little disappointed (same with Lucina if she's gone too). D:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'll wait to see if we get another KI game before casting judgement.

 

[Dre89]

Dark Pit - one of the most controversial characters in the Super Smash Bros roster to date, being an extremely easy clone of Pit in both canon Kid Icarus and Smash Bros. We know that he was originally an alternate character for Pit (Alph and the Koopalings), but promoted with relative ease as a last-minute clone (Like Dr. Mario and Lucina). I don't mind his presence in the game at all, and he's one of my secondaries. But what do you think his future is in Super Smash Bros and Kid Icarus?

Do you think that in seven years time, he'll return as a veteran but with significant changes to his style like Falco or Luigi, get a revamped moveset reflective of the various weapon types in KIU or a new KI game he'd be involved in, or will he return as an alternate character as he was originally planned for? Perhaps in that seven years time, Kid Icarus might see a new game and Dark Pit plays a role in it, since we have their Guidance Conversation leaving enough room for a sequel to be imagined... Who knows what fate has in mind for the dark angel?

Also: No Dark Pit bashing and saying that you'll love it when he gets cut because Kid Icarus isn't worthy of being in Smash when we should get more Donkey Kong representation, okay? ...And who's getting the DP amiibo day one? ...Okay, I'm going to be the only one then.

Much more popular characters like Mewtwo, Roy and Pokemon Trainer have been cut, so Palette Swap's only chance is if Sakurai takes charge of the next time. Bias is the only reason he's in the game, so if we get a new director for the next game he'll be one of the first to get cut if there's a need to cut characters. They won't just cut him for the sake of it, they'll only do it if there's time constraints, or they may just move him to back to an alt.

 

[LancerStaff]

Much more popular characters like Mewtwo, Roy and Pokemon Trainer have been cut, so Palette Swap's only chance is if Sakurai takes charge of the next time. Bias is the only reason he's in the game, so if we get a new director for the next game he'll be one of the first to get cut if there's a need to cut characters. They won't just cut him for the sake of it, they'll only do it if there's time constraints, or they may just move him to back to an alt.

No haters, read the OP.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't think Dre89 is being too much of a hater here.
I don't see where in his post he says "I hate Dark Pit and hope he gets cut".

Edit: ...Okay, I just saw the thread were he talked about Dixie. I suppose I can see what you mean now, LancerStaff.
But let's be fair here; there was at least some bias that helped Dark Pit get in. I'm not sure if future directors will care so much about him.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well, like I've said before I think chances of him returning as a separate character are pretty good. I don't see him being Luigified though, he's either going to return as a costume or all samey. Hopefully with a focus on individual moves like we have now instead of overall changes as to avoid a complete Mario and Doc situation.

Probably the biggest thing against him would be if characters could get alternate Final Smashes depending on the costume. Which I could see happening with the Koopalings and Alph being around.

 

[Frostwraith]

To be honest, given how really easy it is to implement Dark Pit, I wouldn't be surprised if he came back and remained largely the same as Smash 4.

Implementing Dark Pit hardly amounts to 1% of the workload for the game, considering he's nearly identical to Pit in regards to moveset. The only other differences are 7 new animations, which is very little compared to doing an entire character's animation set, let alone the entire game.

Similar statements apply to Lucina and Dr. Mario.

 

[Tepig2000]

To be honest, given how really easy it is to implement Dark Pit, I wouldn't be surprised if he came back and remained largely the same as Smash 4.

Implementing Dark Pit hardly amounts to 1% of the workload for the game, considering he's nearly identical to Pit in regards to moveset. The only other differences are 7 new animations, which is very little compared to doing an entire character's animation set, let alone the entire game.

Similar statements apply to Lucina and Dr. Mario.

Pichu, Young Link and Roy were cut though, and they were just as easy to make (at least I assume they would be).

 

[LancerStaff]

Pichu, Young Link and Roy were cut though, and they were just as easy to make (at least I assume they would be).

Dark Pit himself is 99% pallet swap, his VA is the same as Pit's in most (maybe all) regions, and Dark Pit right now literally has three moves with any difference at all.

And then Pichu was pretty much hated in Smash for being inferior to Pikachu in almost every way, Young Link was replaced by Toon in the same way OoT Link was replaced by TP Link, and Roy himself isn't well-liked in the FE fanbase for multiple reasons and his whole gimmick is just unbalanceable. They all had practically every move changed too.

 

[Tepig2000]

Dark Pit himself is 99% pallet swap, his VA is the same as Pit's in most (maybe all) regions, and Dark Pit right now literally has three moves with any difference at all.

And then Pichu was pretty much hated in Smash for being inferior to Pikachu in almost every way, Young Link was replaced by Toon in the same way OoT Link was replaced by TP Link, and Roy himself isn't well-liked in the FE fanbase for multiple reasons and his whole gimmick is just unbalanceable. They all had practically every move changed too.

Makes sense I guess.

 

[KyroChao]

Im split here. If pit gets in, i'm willing to guarantee he will be in as well, whether in costume or clne(luigified hopefully)If pit isn't, not a chance.

 

[C3CC]

Hopefully he'll be cut. I really don't care about what Sakurai and some people say; I DO consider him, Dr. Mario and Lucina like a waste of slots. I'd rather have less characters in the roster, thank you very much.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'd rather have less characters in the roster, thank you very much.

....How come? Could you explain your reasoning?

 

[C3CC]

....How come? Could you explain your reasoning?

It's just that I fail to see how having different versions of the same character can further expand the "experience". I mean, what's the point of having more characters just for the heck of it? I read a post earlier which said that Dr. Mario had to be a completely separate entity of Mario because it wouldn't make sense for Dr. Mario to throw fireballs or use F.L.U.D.D... Then why not just leave Dr. Mario out? I don't understand.

Some people just want their characters in no matter how, and they won't care if they're clones of not. Personally, if someone had told me Rosalina would be in as a clone of, say, Peach, I would have said "hell no" immediately, no matter how much I wanted her in Smash. But maybe that's just me.

 

[KyroChao]

Hopefully he'll be cut. I really don't care about what Sakurai and some people say; I DO consider him, Dr. Mario and Lucina like a waste of slots. I'd rather have less characters in the roster, thank you very much.

Also: No Dark Pit bashing and saying that you'll love it when he gets cut because Kid Icarus isn't worthy of being in Smash.

Lol the toxic and illogical mindset is real

 

[C3CC]

Lol the toxic and illogical mindset is real

Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's illogical, you know. It's called an opinion.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It's just that I fail to see how having different versions of the same character can further expand the "experience". I mean, what's the point of having more characters just for the heck of it? I read a post earlier which said that Dr. Mario had to be a completely separate entity of Mario because it wouldn't make sense for Dr. Mario to throw fireballs or use F.L.U.D.D... Then why not just leave Dr. Mario out? I don't understand.

Why not have extra characters just for the heck of it, though?

It benefits people who want the clones, and doesn't do anything to harm the people who don't.
I, for one, would be upset if Dark Pit and Lucina were removed.

 

[C3CC]

Why not have extra characters just for the heck of it, though?

It benefits people who want the clones, and doesn't do anything to harm the people who don't.
I, for one, would be upset if Dark Pit and Lucina were removed.

I think it feels lazy. I don't know... If they were more different I guess I could accept them, like I eventually came to accept Falco and Ganondorf. At least Lucina is physically different to Marth, and well, Dr. Mario is Mario's model somewhat modified, but come on, Dark Pit is just literally a recolor model-wise (there may be some really, really small differences though, but they're not very noticeable).

 

[ZephyrZ]

I think it feels lazy. I don't know... If they were more different I guess I could accept them, like I eventually came to accept Falco and Ganondorf. At least Lucina is physically different to Marth, and well, Dr. Mario is Mario's model somewhat modified, but come on, Dark Pit is just literally a recolor model-wise (there may be some really, really small differences though, but they're not very noticeable).

I hate how much people use that word "lazy" when talking about these characters. It's not lazy. It's time efficient.

They were able to add Dark Pit, Lucina, and Doc with almost no opportunity cost. If they took extra steps to change and balance them further, then they would of taken up time that could of been spent on other things.

 

[C3CC]

I hate how much people use that word "lazy" when talking about these characters. It's not lazy. It's time efficient.

They were able to add Dark Pit, Lucina, and Doc with almost no opportunity cost. If they took extra steps to change and balance them further, then they would of taken up time that could of been spent on other things.

Exactly!! I would have preferred if they had spent that time on other things. I just really dislike clones. I'd rather have less characters than have a roster with clones. Brawl did a great job at that. Toon Link, Lucas, Wolf, Ganondorf and Falco felt very different, to the point where they could no longer be called clones.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Exactly!! I would have preferred if they had spent that time on other things.

There's not a whole lot of other things that could of been done in the time it took to make those three clones. Just a little tweak here or there.

It's not like they came at the cost of a game mode or something.

 

[PhantomShab]

and doesn't do anything to harm the people who don't.

As a fan of Ganondorf, I'm quite "harmed" knowing that he's forever doomed to be a Captain Falcon clone. His fate in Wind Waker is nothing compared to the punishment Sakurai had in store for him.

 

[ZephyrZ]

As a fan of Ganondorf, I'm quite "harmed" knowing that he's forever doomed to be a Captain Falcon clone. His fate in Wind Waker is nothing compared to the punishment Sakurai had in store for him.

....Ganondorf is a whole 'nother story then Dark Pit and Lucina.

He was balanced and treated as a separate character, so it's kind of ridiculous that he's still a clone.

 

[Jiggly]

I'm hoping for another KI game on the wii u, with similar controls as Hyrule warriors. One player is on the gamepad (pit) and the other is on the tv (Dark Pit). It would be cool to go through the story with pit and dark pit working together to take on hades and whatever happens.

 

[LancerStaff]

Exactly!! I would have preferred if they had spent that time on other things. I just really dislike clones. I'd rather have less characters than have a roster with clones. Brawl did a great job at that. Toon Link, Lucas, Wolf, Ganondorf and Falco felt very different, to the point where they could no longer be called clones.

Most people would not of preferred these three to be cut though. It sounds like you're just being spiteful.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Dark Pit is really only in the game because he was easy to create; all they needed to do was recolor Pit, get new voiceclips and tweak Pit's moveset slightly (Electroshock Arm over Upperdash Arm) to make him. Dr. Mario at least plays noticably different from default Mario, with his slower speed and emphasis on offensive play; Dark Pit is literally a copy-paste Pit with slight alterations to some of his specials and different voice clips; that's what raises my ire about him.
Maybe he'd also be less hated if the clones didn't have their own section, just to highlight their clone nature.

He's also an example of the most cliche trope in the history of the series, as well; who really wanted what is essentially Recolor the Character as a newcomer? Palutena is at least understandable, since she's totally unique from Pit. Dark Pit is just.....there. He's not really a bad charater, but he's so samey that both him and Pit come off worse for wear due to it.

I doubt people would have had been so polarized on him if he was something like the Luigi version of Pit (ie: plays similarly, but has enough different that he has a unique playstyle); maybe make him slower but stronger than Pit, but the full-on clone status rubs people the wrong way.
And he can't even have a unique Final Smash, either; it's literally a reskin of the Light Arrows, but using the Dark Pit Staff. At least giving it some different properties would be nice (like having less knockback in favor of more direct damage), but it's basically the exact. same. thing.
The clicheness of Dark Pit combined with his really cobbled together feel is what irks me, but I can't say I hate anybody who likes him. He's just a character that really should be a one-off like Pichu.

 

[LancerStaff]

Dark Pit is really only in the game because he was easy to create; all they needed to do was recolor Pit, get new voiceclips and tweak Pit's moveset slightly (Electroshock Arm over Upperdash Arm) to make him. Dr. Mario at least plays noticably different from default Mario, with his slower speed and emphasis on offensive play; Dark Pit is literally a copy-paste Pit with slight alterations to some of his specials and different voice clips; that's what raises my ire about him.
Maybe he'd also be less hated if the clones didn't have their own section, just to highlight their clone nature.

He's also an example of the most cliche trope in the history of the series, as well; who really wanted what is essentially Recolor the Character as a newcomer? Palutena is at least understandable, since she's totally unique from Pit. Dark Pit is just.....there. He's not really a bad charater, but he's so samey that both him and Pit come off worse for wear due to it.

I doubt people would have had been so polarized on him if he was something like the Luigi version of Pit (ie: plays similarly, but has enough different that he has a unique playstyle); maybe make him slower but stronger than Pit, but the full-on clone status rubs people the wrong way.
And he can't even have a unique Final Smash, either; it's literally a reskin of the Light Arrows, but using the Dark Pit Staff. At least giving it some different properties would be nice (like having less knockback in favor of more direct damage), but it's basically the exact. same. thing.
The clicheness of Dark Pit combined with his really cobbled together feel is what irks me, but I can't say I hate anybody who likes him. He's just a character that really should be a one-off like Pichu.

Kid Icarus is all about playing the tropes straight and making fun of them in every way possible. Like Pit being an extreme idiot hero to the point where he believes Palutena can't do anything wrong (hint: she can and does) and can't even read. There's Magnus, the edgy Final Fantasy reject complete with oversized sword. There's Viridi, typical jerk*** god(ess) to the point she's a tsundere hypocrite. Dark Pit is your typical anti-hero who thinks he's all cool and shiz but nobody takes him seriously because of it.

Well, I think you should remember that as far as effort in Smash goes, Dark Pit was basically complete. He was going to be exactly the same, but then they took twenty seconds to give him a few different moves. He's not a separate character, he's essentially a custom Pit, giving him mutually exclusive moves.

Honestly, if they made customs more mainstream and made Dark Pit a part of Pit but with mutually exclusive moves for each, we'd be satisfied. Because that's what he is now, but with a slot.

 

[Wa_Black]

I think clones characters are awesome. I just don't like it when they're so similar that outclasses the other like what's happening with lucina, dark pit, and arguably doc. I just don't think that clone characters are an excuse to not provide more characters. For example, mewtwo is coming out, why not throw in Roy, Shadow, or Wolf, putting in one of these characters would be easier then making one from scratch; I just don't want them to make it a habit of churning out clones.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I think clones characters are awesome. I just don't like it when they're so similar that outclasses the other like what's happening with lucina, dark pit, and arguably doc.

No kidding.
They screwed Dark Pit over so much by nerfing his arrow mobility.
Pit can do so much with his arrows, while all Dark Pit can do is force an approach.

I really want to use Pittooey in serious matches, but unless I'm fighting Rosaluma or something, I have no reason not to go with Pit instead.

I just don't think that clone characters are an excuse to not provide more characters. For example, mewtwo is coming out, why not throw in Roy, Shadow, or Wolf, putting in one of these characters would be easier then making one from scratch; I just don't want them to make it a habit of churning out clones.

Wolf isn't really a clone, and especially not in the same sense Pitooey Lucy and Doc are.
Shadow is already an assist trophy.
If we get Roy, then we'd have two Marth clones. That may not go over well unless he's Falco-fied.

That said, I'd love to see all the cut veterans return, especially Wolf. It's just not exactly as easy as throwing in Lucina or Dark Pit who are identical to their counterparts in almost every way.

Also, clones have never been an excuse not to include extra characters.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

To be honest, given how really easy it is to implement Dark Pit, I wouldn't be surprised if he came back and remained largely the same as Smash 4.

Implementing Dark Pit hardly amounts to 1% of the workload for the game, considering he's nearly identical to Pit in regards to moveset. The only other differences are 7 new animations, which is very little compared to doing an entire character's animation set, let alone the entire game.

Similar statements apply to Lucina and Dr. Mario.

Wich animations?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It could be a huge toss-up here still. Pittoo being easy to add in and implement would make him overally good bonus to his fanbase, but on the flipside, there's a lot people who don't also enjoy him being basically a very slightly modified Pit at best, not even representing his source game aside from few moves and FS. He also seems to be regarded as less effective than Pit overall nowadays to some, and even then, you can't deny that his fanbase is rather polarizing at best.

Personally I'd wish for him to get a "Meta Knight-treatment" in means of identity and even moves, him resembling Pit being his least known traits and more emphasis on other parts about him. I mean, that's exactly what Pittoo seems to want to go for (aside from wanting to wipe out Pit and prove that he's the real one... which means he has to serve Palutena and so on - though the possibility that he'd leave her behind would be more plausible to happen) - but the instant they put stupid ideas like making him spiritually connected to Pit still and even after saving his life and sorta becoming less arrogant towards him in the end of KIU, making him join Forces of Nature according to Palutena's Guidance.

It Makes no sense to me why he'd do that, and I only think it can be blamed on the writers trying to spur pointless rivalry for the characters, not even bothering to build off what went off after KIU. And that's before considering that the game had so many other more unique characters that would have made much better rivals for Pit, now that Pittoo's character and motivation has been defeated by the contradictory things laid on him.

The chances were there, but they were stepped over and buried. So Pittoo ATM is for nothing else than ruined attempts to do an edgy character which could have had ways to build on becoming himself, but now, doesn't contribute anything to the story aside from easy conflict spurring from rivalry, something comparable like stock poor "villains" like Team Rocket from current Pokeanime episodes.

 

[Frostwraith]

Wich animations?

The 7 animations I'm referring to are:
- 3 taunts
- 3 win poses
- Final Smash

That's the most of work that went into Dark Pit. All the rest were just minor stat changes and replacing Pit's Final Smash data with Zelda's.

Consider that each character has over 50 different animations, there are tons of animations done for stages and bosses, as well as items, enemies, Assist Trophies, Pokémon and so on. In total, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of animations done for the entire game.

What are 7 animations compared to all that work?

In fact, the total number of unique animations done for the clone trio amounts to:
- 18 taunts and win poses for all three
- 2 idle animations and 1 battle entrance for Dr. Mario
- 1 Final Smash animation for Dark Pit
- 2 different animations for Lucina's Shield Breaker and Counter (when initiating the move, as the counterattack itself shares the animation with Marth)

A total of 24 animations. A single, unique character would require more than twice that amount. (Not counting Dr. Mario's Tornado and down aerial as those are ported from Luigi.)

That's how almost no work went into these characters. Hell, I've seen games with mere, hidden as **** Easter Eggs being more elaborate than splitting those three characters!

This is to demonstrate how easily they were made, how they literally took no time compared to the entire game. This is the sort of thing the programmers could have done in a week or less during lunch breaks as entertainment.

 

[Sol0ke]

Don't forget Dark Pit's clap

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

The 7 animations I'm referring to are:
- 3 taunts
- 3 win poses
- Final Smash

That's the most of work that went into Dark Pit. All the rest were just minor stat changes and replacing Pit's Final Smash data with Zelda's.

Consider that each character has over 50 different animations, there are tons of animations done for stages and bosses, as well as items, enemies, Assist Trophies, Pokémon and so on. In total, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of animations done for the entire game.

What are 7 animations compared to all that work?

In fact, the total number of unique animations done for the clone trio amounts to:
- 18 taunts and win poses for all three
- 2 idle animations and 1 battle entrance for Dr. Mario
- 1 Final Smash animation for Dark Pit
- 2 different animations for Lucina's Shield Breaker and Counter (when initiating the move, as the counterattack itself shares the animation with Marth)

A total of 24 animations. A single, unique character would require more than twice that amount. (Not counting Dr. Mario's Tornado and down aerial as those are ported from Luigi.)

That's how almost no work went into these characters. Hell, I've seen games with mere, hidden as **** Easter Eggs being more elaborate than splitting those three characters!

This is to demonstrate how easily they were made, how they literally took no time compared to the entire game. This is the sort of thing the programmers could have done in a week or less during lunch breaks as entertainment.

Well clones where made as a last add, the never take a character spot

 

[Frostwraith]

Well clones where made as a last add, the never take a character spot

Yep, I'm well aware of that.

I was emphasizing on how little time and resources it took to implement Dark Pit as a clone, because he was a last minute addition.

If that's all they could do in the little time remaining they had, no way they could have made an actual, more distinct character. Those are decided in the beginning of development.

After all, it did take around 4/5 months to develop Mewtwo and he's a unique character.

Don't forget Dark Pit's clap

Welp. Make it 25 animations, then.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

Yep, I'm well aware of that.

I was emphasizing on how little time and resources it took to implement Dark Pit as a clone, because he was a last minute addition.

If that's all they could do in the little time remaining they had, no way they could have made an actual, more distinct character. Those are decided in the beginning of development.

After all, it did take around 4/5 months to release Mewtwo and he's a unique character.


Welp. Make it 25 animations, then.

Well people hate DP becaus Alph and the koopakids are normal customes, some say the same about dark link or dar samus