Dark Pit's Future in Smash Bros & Beyond

[Frostwraith]

Well people hate DP becaus Alph and the koopakids are normal customes, some say the same about dark link or dar samus

Separating the Koopalings is unfeasible and Alph has complex Pikmin mechanics to deal with unlike more straightforward characters like Mario, Marth and Pit.

There is a reason why those three were chosen: feasibility. Sakurai and the team didn't want to spend too much resources and time in what are simply bonus additions. So, they chose characters that would go in that direction the easiest.

That's all there is to the clones. Anyone with knowledge of game and software development would understand this.

 

[Dynamite]

I used to really hate the idea of Dark Pit in Smash that is until I watched a playthrough of Uprising a few years ago. After watching the playthrough I grew to like Dark Pit and his character(which is weird because I dislike Shadow, haha). I think it would be cool if Dark Pit returned in the next smash, and hopefully as a more unique character. But I would be fine if he remained a clone. I mean, Dark Pit is basically Pit so being a clone of him makes sense.

Though I must say... I smh at people who would rather want less characters in the game just because they hate clones. A lot of people like the clones, and it's always nice to have more characters to choose from. Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr. Mario are simply icing on the cake of a really great game. Wolf, Dixie, King K. Rool, or any other characters that you feel deserved to be in the game would still not be in the game even if they didn't use the extra development time they had to make these clones. I'm pretty sure they decided to make these clones after the roster was finalized, so the clones took no ones spot on the roster. I also disagree that the development time into making these clones was a waste of time. It was either the three clones or nothing. Heck, if they had even more time Alph might of became a last-minute clone too, and that would have been awesome! Still...if you hate Dark Pit or clones in general I can respect that, but remember they're not the reason your most wanted character didn't make the cut.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

I would like a luigification, but I'm pretty doubtful. Remaining a clone is possible just to expand the roster but risks more backlash (How dare they bring back Dark Pit!!1!). While nothing is 100%, I'd like to believe at least an alt is guaranteed since the only difference would be to port the voice and create a black recolor (both which already exist).

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

I'm pretty sure Sakuri and his team give zero ***ks about whatever hate we give him. He gave us some extra characters with his free time and what do we do? We bash him and criticize him for it. I'm embarrassed for all the people who hate clones. He works tirelessly to bring us the greatest fighting game ever WITH extra characters that he didn't have to and we complain like 5 year olds who want more presents at xmas. Don't like dark pit? Don't play him. I for one, will be using his side B for offstage kills with its more lateral trajectory.

 

[Logo12]

I'm pretty sure Sakuri and his team give zero ***ks about whatever hate we give him. He gave us some extra characters with his free time and what do we do? We bash him and criticize him for it. I'm embarrassed for all the people who hate clones. He works tirelessly to bring us the greatest fighting game ever WITH extra characters that he didn't have to and we complain like 5 year olds who want more presents at xmas. Don't like dark pit? Don't play him. I for one, will be using his side B for offstage kills with its more lateral trajectory.

Yes, "he didn't have to", this is why we complain. It's like when "we 5 y/o's want present", Santa Sakurai gave us some charcoal instead. He didn't have to do that, but he did anyway. Should we be happily accepting whatever Sakurai gives? Why can't we criticize on characters anyway?

---

That thing aside, I actually think Dark Pit at least have to most probability of returning with moveset changes in the 3 clones we have. Dr Mario is just a Mario in another outfit, and only has pills when talking about special features. Lucina, as Sakurai has claimed, it's already hard to think of a new swordfighter moveset that is not a mix of Marth and Ike. Furthermore, since Roy returns, Lucina has even less space to grow as a unique swordfighter. Dark Pit, despite being another Pit, can actually have a lot of potential to move away from being a Pit clone, like most has said, the Luigi/Falco treatment.

Though overrepresentation is another story. But let's be real, which of the 3 clones hasn't been criticized for such? If KI actually gets more game, I'd say that will at least up his chance a bit. In the end, these 3 clones' returning possibility isn't high anyway, but if they do need to pick one and declone them, Dark Pit would be the most viable choice.

Just sayin'

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Yes, "he didn't have to", this is why we complain. It's like when "we 5 y/o's want present", Santa Sakurai gave us some charcoal instead. He didn't have to do that, but he did anyway. Should we be happily accepting whatever Sakurai gives? Why can't we criticize on characters anyway?

---

That thing aside, I actually think Dark Pit at least have to most probability of returning with moveset changes in the 3 clones we have. Dr Mario is just a Mario in another outfit, and only has pills when talking about special features. Lucina, as Sakurai has claimed, it's already hard to think of a new swordfighter moveset that is not a mix of Marth and Ike. Furthermore, since Roy returns, Lucina has even less space to grow as a unique swordfighter. Dark Pit, despite being another Pit, can actually have a lot of potential to move away from being a Pit clone, like most has said, the Luigi/Falco treatment.

Though overrepresentation is another story. But let's be real, which of the 3 clones hasn't been criticized for such? If KI actually gets more game, I'd say that will at least up his chance a bit. In the end, these 3 clones' returning possibility isn't high anyway, but if they do need to pick one and declone them, Dark Pit would be the most viable choice.

Just sayin'

How are extra characters charcoal?... I enjoy dark pit and his small differences and appreciate the work put into him. I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize the character designs but just because a character is similar to another character is not reason enough to say it's a bad character or is a lump of coal.

The game wouldn't be any better without them and with them a lot of people are happy. You seem to just be looking for something to complain about. There is literally no advantage to removing him and a lot of people like him. So it's down right wrong to compare him to coal if he enhances the game (even a small bit) to some people.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

In any case i believe that dark pit probably won't be in the next smash game. He will probably be replaced by new flashier clones even if they are just as similar to their counterparts.

 

[Logo12]

How are extra characters charcoal?... I enjoy dark pit and his small differences and appreciate the work put into him. I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize the character designs but just because a character is similar to another character is not reason enough to say it's a bad character or is a lump of coal.

The game wouldn't be any better without them and with them a lot of people are happy. You seem to just be looking for something to complain about. There is literally no advantage to removing him and a lot of people like him. So it's down right wrong to compare him to coal if he enhances the game (even a small bit) to some people.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. Things may look good for some people, but at the same time, they do think the 3 clones are unnecessary.

Again, the "bad character" thing is just subjective, and I don't see why clone status cannot be a way to judge a character.

The game wouldn't be any better without them, but with them, some people is dissatisfied. There were a lot of characters cut from Brawl, which had more deserving rights than them, and this is one of the reason why people complain.

The only reason I referred the clones as "coal in a Christmas day" is just that they are perceived as "unnecessary", sure they are nowhere like coal, but they just seem non-deserving to be promoted as a unique fighter when some of them are literal costume change and color change. Things are even worse when Kid Icarus, a series that belongs to Sakurai, gets more representation then some other more popular series, which is treated as Sakurai bias. It's like Santa Sakurai brought something he likes and think the children will like them too.

Don't get me wrong, I have no opinions on these clones.

And in the end, you're the one finding stuff to complain to begin with.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

I don't understand hating clones because of brawl characters being cut. The two subjects are unrelated because leaving out even all the clones still wouldn't have provided enough development time to make any of the truly unique characters like wolf, snake, or pkmn trainer. (Ice climbers were too complex for 3ds.) I understand being dissatisfied with them because they are "half***ed" characters but most people would agree that half*** is better than no ***.

Dose anyone thing he has any changes coming up in the next patch?...

 

[Tito Maas]

Anyone who says clones don't add to the experience is, well, wrong. I love Dark Pit, more than I've ever loved one of my mains in a Smash game before. My secondary is Lucas (which is coincidental more than anything tbh) and I also love him. It's not just the movesets that add to the experience, it's the characters. Hell, using Dark Pit I feel like I play better than I do with Pit, even if it's not true.

Haviong said that, I'll be devastated when Dark Pit doesn't make ti to the next game like I am now with Wolf being gone. I would love for him, though, to have a different moveset than Pit in the next iteration or at a bare minimum, have different properties like Lucas does with Ness. I love Dark Pit, but I don't appreciate how similar to Pit he is as a character.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

He was an easy addition and was just added for the sake of adding him and I love! My favorite character in any smash game yet! But why would they cut him? He took little to no time to make so if there is as Sma5h, I see no reason to cut him. Maybe they'll change Pit next game and keep Dark Pit the same. Maybe they'll actually give him the staff. Or he'll be left the same. Ilove clones really, and in KI I loved Dark Pit so much and when he made it in I was so happy. I just want him back and I see no reason for him not to come back. New and improved or not, he's amazing

 

[jaddasroots]

I agree, in general I'm just trash for edgy characters, but after watching an Uprising playthrough Dark Pit became my fave. I'd really hope for a Luigification in the next game considering all that KI:U has to offer, there was a thread on here on potential moveset ideas for Dark Pit taking KI:U into mind. I think Sakurai clearly likes Dark Pit enough that instead of keeping him an alt he made him a fighter, so should Sakurai make another game, I don't see why he wouldn't put him in it, but with more time as well. KI:U has so many weapon classes and abilities to offer as seen in Palutena's moveset/customs and I feel Dark Pit could get the same. I wouldn't mind completely relearning how to fight as Dark Pit if he was decloned.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

I agree, in general I'm just trash for edgy characters, but after watching an Uprising playthrough Dark Pit became my fave. I'd really hope for a Luigification in the next game considering all that KI:U has to offer, there was a thread on here on potential moveset ideas for Dark Pit taking KI:U into mind. I think Sakurai clearly likes Dark Pit enough that instead of keeping him an alt he made him a fighter, so should Sakurai make another game, I don't see why he wouldn't put him in it, but with more time as well. KI:U has so many weapon classes and abilities to offer as seen in Palutena's moveset/customs and I feel Dark Pit could get the same. I wouldn't mind completely relearning how to fight as Dark Pit if he was decloned.

While this sounds promising, I feel like this will be sakuri' last smash bros. I would love for a luigification for him, but with the way he run at things he puts way too much stress on himself physically and mentally. He is only getting older and I fear that any other director will see dark pit as a character that a lot of people didn't like and an easily cut clone.

His only shot in my eyes is if the KI series has more games featuring him as co-star.

Just putting this out there but what if he got his own series? (Never played any KI games so I may be way off) He is a more edgy pit right? And they live in a world of Greek mythology right?... Why not a more kid friendly version of God of war?... Idk about you guys but I like to pretend that when dark pit wears his red outfit he is a servant of the God of war and must do the bidding of Aries. Just some weird head cannon I have when I get high and play. He seems like a fitting anti-hero from what iv read about him.

But I've never actually played any KI games so maybe this is all out of character and out of line for the mythology.

 

[jaddasroots]

I feel like that would be going kind of the Shadow the Hedgehog route, since Shadow is Sonic's edgy counterpart. I watched a playthrough of KI:U and I don't think off that game solely Dark Pit has enough tragic backstory like Shadow. They'd have to make up some for him to get his own game I believe. I think an edgier KI:U would be really cool, or some kind of co-op mode with more involvement from Dark Pit is necessary, something that doesn't make him just another of Nintendo's "dark protags". It does take alot of borrowings from Greek Mythology (Pandora, Hades, Medusa being antagonists).

 

[Steelballray]

Well.. When I first saw him I thought he was an eyesore. Same goes to the rest of the clones. Now I don't really mind him but I think the complaining about the complaining about him is just as bad as the complaining about him. Some people, me included, think a half assed effort is worse than no effort. And that what I believe he is, a half assed effort. I mean, what reason was there not make him more unqiue? We can never be certain but most likely it was Sakurai not feeling it when he decided to include him (aka half assed effort)

Anyways, I think he's coming back as a DLC next game (if theres any) and he will be given the Roy treatment.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Well with patch 1.10 his arrows do even more damage that pits... By 1%...

 

[-crump-]

I'd prefer a return as a veteran, than as a pallet swap. He is not Pit, and therefore should not be lumped in Pit's spot. This bopthers me to no end with Alph and Olimar, as well.

Also, I totally got DP's amiibo the day it launched.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well with patch 1.10 his arrows do even more damage that pits... By 1%...

They also do a little more knockback I think. I wonder if they're weening in small differences.

 

[Troykv]

Well with patch 1.10 his arrows do even more damage that pits... By 1%...

Wow... Maybe they could put more changes to make better his arrows.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Wow... Maybe they could put more changes to make better his arrows.

I like the arrows, they are better than pits in the neutral, but worse for offstage sniping.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Someone should make one for Lucina and Dr. Mario! I may do it later.. I'm not sure yet.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Someone should make one for Lucina and Dr. Mario! I may do it later.. I'm not sure yet.

Dr MArio is fine (if a bit underpowered) as despite sharing a lot of moves and animations he still has a different playstyle to Mario. Mario combos well but needs it to do the most damage, Doc hits hard but has trouble recovering if things go wrong.

Lucina is Marth on easy mode, she really needs a new gimmick. And we've already gone over DP.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Dr MArio is fine (if a bit underpowered) as despite sharing a lot of moves and animations he still has a different playstyle to Mario. Mario combos well but needs it to do the most damage, Doc hits hard but has trouble recovering if things go wrong.

Lucina is Marth on easy mode, she really needs a new gimmick. And we've already gone over DP.

Well we are in the dark Pitt thread...

 

[Pazzo.]

Like Falco and Dr. Mario before him, I doubt Dark Pit will be removed from Smash 5, if it happens.

By that time, your favorite black-winged-angel will have received some changes, perhaps a different down special (Gemini Orbitars??) And some different moves/animations. He'll eventually become more and more like Luigi, Roy, and Falco.

 

[Snipnigth]

Sakurai should really consider making him a skin for normal pit, he like exactly the same....he also should consider making a shadow skin for sonic and a dixie kong skin for diddy kong.....SAKURAI PLZ!!! -.-

 

[Dusk Pit]

Well with patch 1.10 his arrows do even more damage that pits... By 1%...

This one actually bothers me on the changes topic. His arrows do 4.3 damage, not 3.7 but nobody just bothers to correct that. Dark Pit's arrows got another buff too that pit didn't get: increased speed. He can now shoot arrows faster than pit and they travel faster too. This wasn't the case before the patch so why isn't it listed on the changes topic?

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

This one actually bothers me on the changes topic. His arrows do 4.3 damage, not 3.7 but nobody just bothers to correct that. Dark Pit's arrows got another buff too that pit didn't get: increased speed. He can now shoot arrows faster than pit and they travel faster too. This wasn't the case before the patch so why isn't it listed on the changes topic?

If it's true than it does indeed need to be addressed.

 

[Dusk Pit]

Yeah I tested those on training mode but if anyone doubts whether they are true then feel free to test them out. Every 4th arrow does 5 damage so everyone can do the math themselves. The uncharged arrow speed increase is easy to notice by shooting arrows side by side with pit and dark pit can spam arrows faster than pit too thanks to the increased speed.

 

[Troykv]

Yeah I tested those on training mode but if anyone doubts whether they are true then feel free to test them out. Every 4th arrow does 5 damage so everyone can do the math themselves. The uncharged arrow speed increase is easy to notice by shooting arrows side by side with pit and dark pit can spam arrows faster than pit too thanks to the increased speed.

Do you see that? Well, post it in the thread, you don't lose anything trying

 

[Dusk Pit]

Do you see that? Well, post it in the thread, you don't lose anything trying

I already did. Nobody just seems to care : (
So I thought if any of you guys could confirm those changes too, then maybe they'll do something about it.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Wow ok with their increased speed, knock back, and damage, I can combo up throw into up arrow for a kill around 130% on middle weight cast. That's a new way for Dark pit to kill off the top... That's a cool looking combo.

 

[jaddasroots]

I was rereading my post about Dark Pit getting his own game or somehing of the sort to make him more prominent as a character and thought of something. In KI:U [spoilers] Pit is turned into a ring by the chaos kin for three years. During this time, once he's returned to his body, the next time Pit meets with Pittoo, Pittoo mentions that he has interests in keeping Pit alive. While Pit was a ring, Pittoo didn't really exist himself. Perhaps it could explore Pittoo's side of the events of KI:U? Or something of the sort because I really do wonder how that must've been for Dark Pit.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

I was rereading my post about Dark Pit getting his own game or somehing of the sort to make him more prominent as a character and thought of something. In KI:U [spoilers] Pit is turned into a ring by the chaos kin for three years. During this time, once he's returned to his body, the next time Pit meets with Pittoo, Pittoo mentions that he has interests in keeping Pit alive. While Pit was a ring, Pittoo didn't really exist himself. Perhaps it could explore Pittoo's side of the events of KI:U? Or something of the sort because I really do wonder how that must've been for Dark Pit.

This sounds interesting. Even after playing KIU we don't feel like we know dark pit very well. This would allow us to get a better idea of who he is and what his goals and motives are. At this point I feel he is still a rather ambiguous character.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I already did. Nobody just seems to care : (
So I thought if any of you guys could confirm those changes too, then maybe they'll do something about it.

The best way would be to make a replay of Pit and Dark Pit doing basic stuff against, say, Mario and then upload it to Youtube. Then try and find some older footage and use it as a comparison to prove there's something there.

 

[Dusk Pit]

The thing is that I don't have any old footage and couldn't find any so it kinda makes it hard for me to prove it.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Dark Pit But anyways, there is his old arrow % and it's 3.8 so...

And about the speed, everyone knows how both pit and dpit can act at the same time after shooting an arrow? Well that hasn't changed but they could both act right after the arrow (hitbox) disappeared which means that dpit's arrows HAD to be slower than pit's since dpit's arrows have less range. Now on the other hand both of their cooldown were reduced and you can clearly see how pit can move a little bit before the arrow is gone but in dpit's case, he can still act only after the arrow disappears. This means that his arrow has to travel faster now. The reason dpit can spam arrows faster too is due to them being faster. Despite the fact that they can both move at the same time after shooting an arrow, they can only start shooting a new one after the previous arrow has disappeared.
I hope my reasoning makes sense. Everyone can test these things on the training mode though but the problem is that we need an older footage to prove the changes.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The thing is that I don't have any old footage and couldn't find any so it kinda makes it hard for me to prove it.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Dark Pit But anyways, there is his old arrow % and it's 3.8 so...

And about the speed, everyone knows how both pit and dpit can act at the same time after shooting an arrow? Well that hasn't changed but they could both act right after the arrow (hitbox) disappeared which means that dpit's arrows HAD to be slower than pit's since dpit's arrows have less range. Now on the other hand both of their cooldown were reduced and you can clearly see how pit can move a little bit before the arrow is gone but in dpit's case, he can still act only after the arrow disappears. This means that his arrow has to travel faster now. The reason dpit can spam arrows faster too is due to them being faster. Despite the fact that they can both move at the same time after shooting an arrow, they can only start shooting a new one after the previous arrow has disappeared.
I hope my reasoning makes sense. Everyone can test these things on the training mode though but the problem is that we need an older footage to prove the changes.

No need to worry, there'll be loads of old videos on the topic of "DARK PIT IS THE SAME, STOP HALLUCINATING DIFFERENCES". Try looking up Pit/Dark Pit comparisons. I can do some work to see if DP's arrows kill any sooner or something tomorrow.

 

[LancerStaff]

Dark Pit's arrows did indeed get a damage buff, and thanks to SSB4's KB calculations, the extra damage makes 'em KO 30% quicker. Speed buff though... Actually, I'll get to that tomorrow. Should be able to compare then.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Dark Pit's arrows did indeed get a damage buff, and thanks to SSB4's KB calculations, the extra damage makes 'em KO 30% quicker. Speed buff though... Actually, I'll get to that tomorrow. Should be able to compare then.

I tested myself and Dark Pit's arrows don't seem to have a speed buff in charge time or projectile speed.

I however can confirm the knock back buff. Still needs Mario to be at insane damage levels to KO from the middle of FD but it's something.

Now I need to figure out how to get a replay as proof as there's no replay on training.

 

[Dusk Pit]

I tested myself and Dark Pit's arrows don't seem to have a speed buff in charge time or projectile speed.

I however can confirm the knock back buff. Still needs Mario to be at insane damage levels to KO from the middle of FD but it's something.

Now I need to figure out how to get a replay as proof as there's no replay on training.

Hmm... That's odd... How did you test their speed? I don't remember dark pit's arrows being faster than pit's before. The difference is not by much but enough to see that they indeed travel faster uncharged compared to pit's.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Hmm... That's odd... How did you test their speed? I don't remember dark pit's arrows being faster than pit's before. The difference is not by much but enough to see that they indeed travel faster uncharged compared to pit's.

I couldn't see much difference but we'd probably need frame by frame data, complicated by the fact DP's arrows disapear sooner.

Anyway, here's the video I made on the KO power of DP's arrows. It's the first video I've made with the replay function.