Fino
Smash Master
First off... I'm not going to spam another character forum to discuss olimar. It rightfully belongs here. If you want to know what's going on check out the sonic forums discussion on olimar (I believe there's a thread here that links you to it). Go to the part where dangr points out olimar's weaknesses, and then to the part where I call him out on it, and here is his reply for those now tuning in.
*sigh, this is going to be long -_-'
I will be posting my reply in my signature green text so I don't exclude anything and to avoid billions of re-quotes that are annoying.
Also, edge guarding with fairs (not so much dairs) is amazing for olimar. You can quickly SH fair. But of course my opponents have serious issues at avoiding attacks. The most recent one's being anther, stealth raptor, arkive zero, dark peach, affinity, alpha zealot. I'm sure you've at least heard of one of those names. I could be wrong though, you evidently don't know much about the game (reference to jumping to momentum cancel = good idea). That was over harsh, but if this works on some of the BEST players, consistently I might add, then I don't know what you're talking about.
Floaty-ness and slow aerial speed only come into play if you're dumb enough to double jump off the edge (which I do sometimes in friendlies.... epic vids coming soon). Though olimar has great control over his time in the air, he's too slow yes - doesn't mean he's predictable.
if you get someone off the edge my goal is to keep them from coming back, of course. If I kill them, that's great! but if they make it back, I've just racked up some easy damage.
Umm okay, well you said he had nothing to protect him. Nair shield pokes, so shield grabing is a bit of a thread, but not entirely huge. It's not good, but it's something.
~Fino
*sigh, this is going to be long -_-'
I will be posting my reply in my signature green text so I don't exclude anything and to avoid billions of re-quotes that are annoying.
First off - jumping off is "risking a stock" for any character. Say Marth jumps towards you while you're recovering, he goes off the stage for the tippered bair, only to have it whistled, and olimar do a rising dair before marth can attack again. Marth, who has one of the best edge guarding games in brawl, even takes the risk. ALL CHARACTERS TAKE THIS RISK. Jumping off the edge is high risk/ high reward for any character, because it helps you kill them faster, but it also leaves you at the most dis-advantageous spot you can be at. If anything olimar has one of the BEST ledge games because he doesn't even have to leave the stage to still effectively guard.
Also, edge guarding with fairs (not so much dairs) is amazing for olimar. You can quickly SH fair. But of course my opponents have serious issues at avoiding attacks. The most recent one's being anther, stealth raptor, arkive zero, dark peach, affinity, alpha zealot. I'm sure you've at least heard of one of those names. I could be wrong though, you evidently don't know much about the game (reference to jumping to momentum cancel = good idea). That was over harsh, but if this works on some of the BEST players, consistently I might add, then I don't know what you're talking about.
Floaty-ness and slow aerial speed only come into play if you're dumb enough to double jump off the edge (which I do sometimes in friendlies.... epic vids coming soon). Though olimar has great control over his time in the air, he's too slow yes - doesn't mean he's predictable.
Okay, well even m2k doesn't edge guard well enough then XD. Edge guarding to me means stalling their recovery - or as you say, guarding the edge. If you could simply get someone off the ledge and just 0-death them from edge guarding, this would be melee. Since the game is not, you can't tell me that as soon as someone gets off the edge they should be dead.
if you get someone off the edge my goal is to keep them from coming back, of course. If I kill them, that's great! but if they make it back, I've just racked up some easy damage.
Wouldn't know... so I guess you win this one?
Lemme ask. You're olimar.... how much do grabs right next to olimar (as you say) matter? Olimar's game is all about getting the most ranged grab you could get. Does close range grab matter that much? I guess you're pointing out a weakness, but it's one that's not incredibly applicable.
Not true. If olimar dies earlier, why do I continually find myself not getting KO'd until the mid 160's if not getting to 200 (happens more than you think). Olimar's HUGE range lets him just poke away at his opponents, and makes most of their kill moves moot. Olimar's lightness helps in the fact that lighter characters are fast, for the most part. Fast means you can aerial faster. Olimar has a really good momentum cancel, thus he can easily live longer. If you're light, and you have the skill, you can live longer than some mid weigh and even some heavy weight characters (Olimar should live longer than R.O.B. as an example).
Floatyness to means mean you can cover a long distance in the air and you have massive control over where you move. Olimar can easily float back to the stage in some cases. Also, what I do knowing I'm going to get edge guarded is force my opponent to attack when I want him to. Brawl is all about punishment. If I move towards an opponent ready to edge guard, I can make him attack when I want him to. What does this mean? I can whistle it and get back fine. If you don't understand what I mean I'll explain more (I'm trying to rap up here so that I can get some matches with kinser :D)
Lies, you should always see it coming. c-stick once the opposite direction when you've been hit, the second hit will never land. it's not fast at all. diddy's is fast, pit's is easy. sonic's multi hit attacks are funky in that they suck you in... it kinda makes it hard to DI them...
fair enough
When did I say this?
agreed
Even with land-canceling, his nair is unsafe. It lacks range and is shieldgrabbed easily. It does not protect Olimar as he lands. Olimar has no attacks that are good at protecting him as he lands. His fair has bad priority and nair lacks range. Ground attacks generally trade hits with nair (which will only deal about 1 percent because it's multhit) or beat it out. Both are shieldgrabbed by most of the cast as well.
Umm okay, well you said he had nothing to protect him. Nair shield pokes, so shield grabing is a bit of a thread, but not entirely huge. It's not good, but it's something.
~Fino
