DA MINDGRAINES: an Overview of Mindgames<----a post the doesn't suck.

[MprisM]

Prism, if you can only do a few, you might want to work on it a little more. Though shuffling is truly more important... still; don't you want to play against players that aren't complete scrubs?

Heh...forums...

The great debate of our time. Samus is my main and I realize the fact that technicals improve gameplay and for the 2nd or 3rd time, I do them. So eh...chill? X_x

p.s. one of my friends is a wave dash *****, and he still gets kizacked most of the time. So bleh! X_x

 

[InterimOfZeal]

I reiterate, don't you long to play against some people who aren't scrubs? Wavedashing is nice and all, but if your friend is whoring it out continously, it doesn't make him tech savvy or anything. Wavedashing is the easiest technical to pick up, next to float cancelling, IMHO.

Also, I have a friend who has better technicals than at least 90% of the smash community, but before he learned to start incorporating proper mindgames into his play style, he wasn't able to hold a candle to near anyone, simply because of how predictable he was. I'd advise your friend to lay off on the WD whoring and start working on predicting and manipulating his opponents, because he's obviously not.

Now, I'm not attacking you, not by a long shot. I would like to request you cutting down on the condesending remarks, if you don't mind too much. Thanks. ^^

 

[MprisM]

Thats what I like just said...about how I want to work on mind games rather than technicals.... Infact thats what our mini debate was all about.

So if you'd ya know...stop typing. That'd be cool =)

edit - not trying to be mean saying that, only witty.

 

[g-regulate]

masked marth, nice post dude lol, thats a good way of explaining that. i was like, "**** did i write that?" lol. but yea youre right, tech skills are just the tools to create your mindgames. like how you say mindgames are how well you choose your options, having brilliant tech skill gives you such a wide variety of options, and instinctivly being able to do the best option consistently? **** youd be azen or something lol

 

[h1roshi]

well i am a wavedashing ***** myself. but i also have pretty good technical skill too. like i shuffle and l-cancel and all that greatness. but all my wavedash whoring is like a continuous mindgame to my opponent. because i never wavedash in a similar pattern. so as long as you have the technicle skill to back it up, and you dont wavedash predictably, then its ok to wavedash ***** and still pwn.

 

[Deleted member]

mindgames = excuse when people get their ***** beat relentlessly.

tech skill = excuse why people **** up and don't want to directly john about it.

all it comes down to is winning. if I laser camp and bair spam and beat every peach out there I have mindgames? bull.

falco > fox > sheik >everyone else. mindgames.

 

[Pichu Paizano]

Mow has just owned us all. We are not worthy. Mindgraines rock...

 

[InterimOfZeal]

If they can't get past your laser camping and bair spamming, then yeah, you just mindgamed them, even if you didn't actively participate in mindgames. It got inside their head and screwed them up.

Also, treating the tier list like it is the be-all and end-all of everything is just stupid. Ken took the Jack Garden tournament against an ungodly good Falco. Granted, he used instakill combos on Bomb Soldier, but he still won with a Marth.

Mindgames.

 

[Alucart_Shield]

tech skills are just the tools to create your mindgames. like how you say mindgames are how well you choose your options, having brilliant tech skill gives you such a wide variety of options, and instinctivly being able to do the best option consistently?

I just read the thread after I read Sideem's thing about what makes a good Smash player. That's two overly thought-provoking threads in less than an hour. Excuse me for a minute...

:burst:

Ah, much better. Anyway, skills and knowledge are the groundwork for mindgames. My personal favorite psyche-out is a completely uncharged Rollout with a crate or something like that close by, so Jigglypuff rolls very slowly and then suddenly goes spinning upward after smacking the crate. Sends chills down every spine in the room. But I digress. My point is that skill lays the groundwork for mind games, and mind games define a player's prowess. I love that word...prowess...ahem. Anyway, my other mind game question: are the best mind games made up on the spot, or are they developed over many matches? If your instinct is good enough, I'd say the on-the-spot mindgames are the ones that work best. If you focus too much on slowly developing a mindgame, the enemy will know it better because they saw the mindgame develop.

 

[MaskedMarth]

you talk about mind games developing like they're little roses or something. "Don't grow them too quickly or the enemy will see them develop!" could you help me understand how mind games are "developed" or "made on the spot?"

 

[AngeloBangelo]

This is a great post. I'm definitely linking to it in my Falcon guide if you don't mind. That means that the only threads I've linked to in my guide are both yours. The other one being the "8 undeniable reasons why Falcon is the sweetest character" thread. Man, that was hilarious.

 

[Alucart_Shield]

you talk about mind games developing like they're little roses or something. "Don't grow them too quickly or the enemy will see them develop!" could you help me understand how mind games are "developed" or "made on the spot?"

It's actually very simple. That is to say, you'd have to be my mother (read: total idiot) to not get my point after reading this. By the way, you misquoted me. I said the enemy can read into your mindgame if you give them too much time. Basically, I see mindgames as either spontaneous or planned. Planned mindgames are the ones you kind of dream up as you're sitting around. You try them here and there against the intended recipient, testing different variables to see what works. Yeah, when you're kind of like, "Wonder what [insert random name here] does when I use [insert attack here]? Well, let's try it a bunch of times and see; I think I'll fake him out after 5 or 6 [insert attack here]s." The recipient, however, is right there watching this mindgame go through its phases, and learns a little more about what the hell you're up to each time. It becomes much harder to keep the enemy guessing after all that.

The majority of mindgames, and the better mindgames, are spontaneous. These are the kind that flash through your mind mid-battle. You're just kind of sitting there, fully charged Giant Punch, for example, and you suddenly think, "What would happen if I just didn't use this?" I like my mindgames spontaneous, because they have a better chance of screwing an opponent up. They're waiting for the telltale delay between B button press and the actual punch, and you just slap them in the face. Eventually, after awhile, you just say, "Screw it," and counter their slow move.

To summarize:
Patterns suck.

 

[six]

To summarize:
Patterns suck.

if i had to summarize how to get good at smash in two words, these two would cover it

as for your question about developing versus on the spot: once you've developed a decent number of mindgames, you'll see the ways to make them work even better in matches while you're playing. these are the best ones of all: the ones that take what you thought up before hand, and apply them to what you see as you play. for example, you may think up the perfect thing to do to someone in response to something they do, but they might never do it in the match. however, while you're playing, you may notice they do something else that's completely different, and you realize that the thing you thought up will work in that case too. voila, next time they do it, you've got the perfect response, and you came up with it right there on the spot.

those are my favorites, because they make you feel good for having thought of something beforehand, AND applying it in game.

 

[g-regulate]

mindgames!

 

[MookieRah]

ah ****z! G-reg just pwned me in the face!

good mind gaming mangz.

 

[g-regulate]

mindgames are like......games for the mind.....

 

[Uncle Meat]

The do mind games in MENSA... They sit around all day thinking of new ways to incorporate empty short hops and dashdancing into their style.

 

[VgtPrncfllSyns]

Mindgames... is that the reason I'm falling into blank traps all the time, or is it because I'm dull?

Really though, mindgames aren't a part of my game yet. I'll bring them in soon, I assume.

 

[noob-lube69]

This here is the thread why I joined smashboards tonight. For sometime I've browsed smashboards as a guest wondering if I should join because it is all talk about how to wavedash or how to protect against yada yada. Well I figured I shouldnt, but I came across this thread. Me and my friends just found out about all of this stuff from the nintendo power that introduced it to us. Since then all my friends have been like "OOuuu wave dashing" and have been practicing it. And I did to, atleast to a degree.

But upon this thread I realized that I'm going about it all wrong, since then I have plastered my friends with the simplist of mind games that I came up with during play. Most of the time my mind games was to do something completely different than I'd usually do. Since this thread I've realized what makes pros pro and how I would become one. I dont intend to be in any smash tournaments ever, I've realized that it is to late in the game to become pro. But I'm still practicing to be awesome at the revolution smash. I shouldnt master dash dancing, whos to say the next smash will include this. The thing I need to know is mind-games. Even if not all the same mind games can be used in the upcoming smash, I will still know what makes smash...well smash.

This thread has been revolutionizing to me, and I'm sure to others who have read it. I hope this thread continues forever and always. ^_^

WOW, you are the smartest newbie ever. All anyone new ever posts about is how to wavedash/l cancel properly, but you my friend are one step ahead. Even when I first joined smashboards I made it a point to learn all of the technical crap before I even thought about developing mindgames, and I'm still paying for that mistake whenever I lose to someone simply becuase they've outsmarted me. Technical skill is very important, but mindgames are what win matches. It's a shame that more new people don't think the way you do.

 

[A Sexy Bum]

great post makes u think of the game in a whole new prospective

 

[MookieRah]

@MetroidPrism
While mindgames are a bigger issue than tech skill (which is what your friends are practicing) you need both. You should go ahead and practice those techniques and then incorporate them into your trix. It's easier to fool people when you have more options to do so. Also, tech skill is something that builds on itself. Regardless if dash dancing or wavedashing or all that is in the next game, it only helps you to get good at them now because after mastering those, other things seemingly get easier to do as well. You are heading on the right track though, to truely beat someone you have to outthink them. There is only so far you can go by abusing certain moves or abilities of a character without putting much thought behind it.

 

[Sephi_hatu]

Mindgames? Theyre simple. Nice example is if your samus against pretty much anyone. Charge up your beam, then shoot a super missile at your opponent, then follow it up with the charged blast. If they dodge the missile, they get blasted. Of course, you could just jump over it, but what are the odds there gonna think to do that if theyre running at ya?

 

[The_Great_Nuge]

I also think Mindgames are ove and can mean many diffrent things

 

[krazyzyko]

you're right.

....later

 

[MprisM]

I wasnt aware that I'm cool for liking mindgames. X_x

But heh sure. Thanks for the support, im getting them technicals down pretty well on my spare time. I'm in foods right now (off topic) so I cant say much else.

Foods = noob class.

But thanks for the support there noob-loob.

 

[cb_marth]

WOW awsome post man I think thats what splits the great smashers to the eilte ones! I think mindgames is the greatest thing to have in a 1 on 1 match!...I myself yet to master mindgames but I'm working on it now and soon I will have it mastered, Mindgames are so great cause theres no limit on it its up to you and your style on how far you go with the MG. I think thats what makes Ken such a great player the mix of his perfect timing and his mindgames makes him a insane Marth player!..all and all great post man very impressed!

 

[g-regulate]

ive got crucial mindgames

btw when i get to 1000 posts can i change my avatar

 

[N1c2k3]

ok but only if pichu ditto

$5000000, let's go...

Greg: Can you change your avatar yet?! I'm dying in suspense...

Mindgames are too kool for you...

 

[hell'ssurvivor]

i have always told my friend this. we all play mind games on each other virtualy (in the game), physicaly, and mentaly, one of my friends calls me a cheater because he says that since i play with him a lot i know where he's going but when me and him went to some kids house to play him i whooped the kids a** with mind games (and he had good skills), my hint to all of u about mindgames is that once u start doing the mind game sucessfuly at first ur opponent will start hesitating and they will fall for almost anything. but keep in mind u still need tech skill

 

[Juggleguy]

A great example of mindgames is predicting your opponents while edgeguarding. If you are standing at the edge and your enemy is about to up-B, will he try to sweetspot or will he land on the stage to avoid your edgehog? You have options; edgehog, fake edgehog (ledgehop or roll up then smash), or jumping out to aerial them to death. I first noticed this when watching Bombsoldier vs Ken videos. Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

 

[Brookman]

g-reg is truly a smash lord

 

[g-regulate]

does anyone need aspirin for their mindgraines?

 

[thekyelur]

This guy i play has crazy mind games cuz I know what hes gonna do but im reluctant to beleive it and he kills me with simple techniques

 

[AngeloBangelo]

does anyone need aspirin for their mindgraines?

*Bump*

No but they might be hungry. Your mindgames should satisfy their hunger, but if not... Offer them a pizzown from Pizza Hut. Possibly with extra pepperownage.

This thread is too good to ever die... EVER.

 

[g-regulate]

angelobangelo how do i change my avatar/stuff under my name? like, the mindgraines got me so confused that i cant operate it.

 

[AngeloBangelo]

Pay for it with a premium membership. Or I know that some of the older members can just do it because they're totally awesome like that. I know you're just as awesome as any Broomer so ask a mod or something if they'll allow you to.

 

[g-regulate]

lol the day when i win some money for playing thi **** game ill get a membership

 

[Blind]

Me: Hey Drew, you know when you do a waveshine and the guy automatically grabs the edge?
Dr DrewtheDragon: yeah
Me: Well, I was working on it, and you can do a spin in your shine, reverse wavedash from it, shine them again, and you'll be off the stage facing the edge. Insta-hedgehog.
Dr DrewtheDragon: Oh. I just don't shine them when they're at that distance. I do a grab instead.
Me: Oh...
Dr DrewtheDragon: You stick to the tech skill. I'll stick with the mindgames
Me: And then we can go to a big tournament, combine and form a giant robot, blowing everybody up?
Dr DrewtheDragon: Actually, we'd probably just form PC Chris.

Oh, and as for not going to tournaments and working your hardest to get good in the short time you have left... it's good to be focusing on your mindgames and thinking about the NEXT smash, but...

Mitch Hedberg: Some lady asked me why I drink red wine, she said, "don't it give you a headache?" I said yeah. At the end. But the beginning and middle are GREAT. I'm not gonna not do something just cuz I don't like what happens at the end. 'Hey Mitch, you want an apple?' 'No, cuz eventually, it'll be a core.'

Cmon man. Improve for the sake of improvement, and play the game cuz you like it. Don't worry about becoming a pro, strive towards it because you're making yourself better. Plus, you never know just how handy the skills you pick up in this game will be when you start the next one. Plus, won't you feel silly if the next Smash isn't a tournament worthy game and has too many broken things in it (competitively speaking) and we all have to stick with Melee for another couple years? You'll be glad you picked up l-cancelling early.

 

[MookieRah]

I have discovered something that makes it easier to mindgame, something very simple, and way more effective than it should be.

For starters, my Marth is crap. It really is. I just never could get that great with him. However, the other day I was smashing with the rest of the Tupeloopas, and was getting bored. I decided to pick Marth, and instead of trying to win I thought that it would be fun to just make my opponent look as stupid as possible. To tell you the truth, I never would have ever guessed the outcome. All the sudden I was landing tons of tipped fsmashes, off the stupidest things. I noticed more about my opponents play as well. I was tipping people from techs and **** with ease, which is normally something that I have to be focused to do. I was playing n00bishly, but smart, and I was handing out 2-3 stock ***** to people I normally go even with.

But yeah, try that next time you play. Go into the battle thinking only of making your opponent feel stupid. You just might surprise yourself.

 

[UltVGmer]

I have discovered something that makes it easier to mindgame, something very simple, and way more effective than it should be.

For starters, my Marth is crap. It really is. I just never could get that great with him. However, the other day I was smashing with the rest of the Tupeloopas, and was getting bored. I decided to pick Marth, and instead of trying to win I thought that it would be fun to just make my opponent look as stupid as possible. To tell you the truth, I never would have ever guessed the outcome. All the sudden I was landing tons of tipped fsmashes, off the stupidest things. I noticed more about my opponents play as well. I was tipping people from techs and **** with ease, which is normally something that I have to be focused to do. I was playing n00bishly, but smart, and I was handing out 2-3 stock ***** to people I normally go even with.

But yeah, try that next time you play. Go into the battle thinking only of making your opponent feel stupid. You just might surprise yourself.

Its funny how that happens, i mean whenever me and my friends are playin for fun we come up wit the craziest mind gamez and **** while we're just playin around. Dam u MookieRah, u've shown me the next level of my smash capabilities while I couldnt see it right in front of me!!

:monkey: