D= I can't SHDF anymore...

[ynnek123]

after playing an entire month of brawl, I decided to try melee again. God, was I surprised. Only now I realized how amazing the tech skill was you needed there. I can still fox perfect wavedash and waveshine, SHL with falco, but I can't short hop double fair with marth anymore!!! I didn't use the C-Stick for it before, and I got it perfectly when I first tried it, but now I'm not even able to do it WITH the C-stick. I can only do it in Slo-mo.... help me please!!

 

[SHDW23]

i don't know that the c-stick is going to help, it's a shorter distance (from x and y) to the a-button which is just as effective. i can't imagine be able to waveshine and not SHDF... just keep trying

 

[elvenarrow3000]

SHL isn't that hard <_<

The less you think about SHDF, the easier it is. I find the hardest part for me is timing the second slash. If you do it too early, you won't do it because of the lag from the first and if you do it too late, you hit the ground.

Find the rhythm. Listen to the sounds or watch the animation or something.

It's really not as hard as people say it is.

 

[ynnek123]

Thanks 11arrow. Yeah, I thought doing 10 consecutive SHL's while dashing back and forward was way harder the SHDF back in the times
But I think my problem is the first fair. sometimes, I press the a button too fast and he just jumps(sometimes he doesn't move at all, this part is weird lol) and I never get the second slash in time. Sometimes i do manage to start the animation, but up to the part where the hitbox hasn't come out yet =S I guess it's just that my timing's off =(

 

[Stryk9]

yeah shdf is technically much easier than a perfect waveshine lol, you'll get it back I'm sure, it's proly just a mental block now that you;re psyched.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Argh!!

Elven Arrow

Not Eleven Arrow

 

[Shai Hulud]

SHDF is not hard. You should try to pivot reverse wavedashes. That's hard.

 

[-NEOLINK-]

Yeah, it isn't too hard. You'll do it again eventually.

 

[jwei0502]

I'm not sure if this will help you, but I can do any amount of SHDF's on command.
I place my thumb so that it covers both Y and A buttons.
Then, i use a sort of wave-like motion so that i press Y, then A without even lifting my thumb from the controller.
After that, i just time the second slash from experience and then L-cancel.
I hopes this works for you like it does for me.

 

[Brightside6382]

Im just wondering but how could ANYONE help you with this? We aren't going to magically give you the proper finger movements and there isn't some fancy way to do this. Go into a match with a lvl1 comp and just start spamming it. No tricks no mindgames just PRACTICE

 

[QuickSi1ver]

Well you forgetting it is really unfortunate, but I cant do it in the first place.

 

[L__]

1. Do it in 1/4 time

2. Do it in 1/2 time

3. Do it in 2/3 time

4. Try not to screw it up in 1x time.

x_x

All I can say is just do it slow and work your way up...again.

 

[Killress]

1. Do it in 1/4 time

2. Do it in 1/2 time

3. Do it in 2/3 time

4. Try not to screw it up in 1x time.

x_x

All I can say is just do it slow and work your way up...again.

That might kind of screw up the timing, though...

 

[Havokbringer]

Slowing it down won't help because it's all about rhythm just practice you had it once it shouldn't be too hard nothing to really post about atleast.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I say we get someone to record a tempo of Short hop fairs, one with both whiffed and one with both with hitlag and first with hitlag and then just 2nd hitlag only, make an mp3 loop of it, then post it up. Point is to get the tempo of perfect shdf's EMBEDDED into your mind, whiffed and with hitlag, so to help it into your muscle memory, kinda like tapping your foot to the rhythm of your favorite guitar solo.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Argh!!

Elven Arrow

Not Eleven Arrow

Ah ha ha ha, elevenarrows, remember?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

It's really not that hard to figure out yourself, and my screen name is elvenarrow3000.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I slide from Y->when I do it usually, then c-stick
I do both slashes with the c-stick sometimes, but its real hard for me if facing to the left lol

 

[NJzFinest]

I had the same problem for 5 seconds.

Just don't do it to fast, because the Fair ends longer in Melee.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I had the same problem for 5 seconds.

Just don't do it to fast, because the Fair ends longer in Melee.

lol, 5 seconds. It took me about that long to master it because all things considered SHDF is a very easy tech. Much easier than retreating SHDL with Fox, for instance.

 

[Falco (MOP)]

Lol I can waveshine... and the SHDF is WAY WAY easier than waveshining XD. Try using A, a lot of people are apposed to anything but c-stick ariels, but IMO, I think the A button is better for SOME ariels... I could do the SHDF after like 5 minutes XD it took me weeks to learn waveshining... So Keep it up, you'll get it :D

- The MOP

 

[Shai Hulud]

It's harder to space it properly if you use A but then again SHDF approaches are not that good anyway. It's better for comboing and most of the time you will be moving forward when doing that. A lot of people use A / Z for first fair and C-stick for second so they can regain some aerial control. I use C-stick for both and have no trouble.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

SHDF is not hard. You should try to pivot reverse wavedashes. That's hard.

Wait wait wait....

You mean pivot, then turn around and wavedash? Or just pivot and backwards wavedash. Cuz the second one is really easy.

 

[Professor Pro]

after playing an entire month of brawl, I decided to try melee again. God, was I surprised. Only now I realized how amazing the tech skill was you needed there. I can still fox perfect wavedash and waveshine, SHL with falco, but I can't short hop double fair with marth anymore!!! I didn't use the C-Stick for it before, and I got it perfectly when I first tried it, but now I'm not even able to do it WITH the C-stick. I can only do it in Slo-mo.... help me please!!

That is your fault for playing brawl.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Wait wait wait....

You mean pivot, then turn around and wavedash? Or just pivot and backwards wavedash. Cuz the second one is really easy.

I mean the second one. If you think it's easy you aren't doing it fast enough. Ideally you want to start the wavedash on the pivot frame. I.e., pivot jump, then air-dodge on first airborne frame. In practice the way you do it is with the control stick make a motion like a quick dash dance, for instance dash left, pivot right, immediately tilt the stick back left at the angle about 15 degrees below horizontal, and start the jump + airdodge between the pivot right / tilt stick left motion. I can do it reasonably fast but if I try to do it frame perfect or close to frame perfect my accuracy is much lower.

Also pivoting reverse wavedashes is actually kind of useful. It's a very fast way to edgehog, and you can also do it to quickly turn around and put some space between you and your opponent when dashing away from them. It's not really useful enough for its difficulty level to warrant learning to do it though.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

You're making it much too hard on yourself by moving the control stick into WD position right after the pivot and timing the jump, when you can literally just pivot and start moving the control stick in the jump lag frames and then airdodge.

Also, it's not even necessary to be frame perfect as long as you actually pivot and don't dash back, you get enough distance out of it to be pretty useful without frame perfect accuracy. I use it a ton for movement and edgehogging, like you said.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Waveshining does not take weeks to learn. It'd take a week, tops.

 

[NJzFinest]

lol, 5 seconds. It took me about that long to master it because all things considered SHDF is a very easy tech. Much easier than retreating SHDL with Fox, for instance.

I think reverse SHDLs are easier O_o

You don't need to time anything, just do the inputs asap.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

It's really not that hard to figure out yourself, and my screen name is elvenarrow3000.

naw, I meant how I got your name wrong and said that should be your new nickname.

 

[ynnek123]

I think most people don't understand me. I COULD do this before brawl, easily. how would you think i can waveshine and NOT SHDF >_> I can even shdl to an extent
Anyways, I learned how to do it again. I did it easily, like before, perfect each time. just 7 minutes of practice.
I played brawl again. I played melee and couldn't do it. I can still waveshine and shdl.
moral of this story: brawl is damaging for melee marth =O

Edit: I think njz answered me. I'm probably just trying to do it too fast I never knew that it had a sort of timing to it although I mained marth/ falco >_>

and shai hulud , to edgehog I just run towards the ledge, wavedash, quickly turn away and wavedash again but that's only possible when you're pretty far away from teh ledge

 

[L__]

Then again, SHDF isn't gamebreaking...

*waits for a video involving a SHDF comeback. x_x*

 

[Shai Hulud]

I think reverse SHDLs are easier O_o

You don't need to time anything, just do the inputs asap.

Actually you do need to time the lasers for both of them to hit grounded opponents with the exception of Marth and Ganondorf. For most characters (Sheik, Peach, CF, etc., see my sig for a complete list) you need FRAME PERFECT timing to hit with both lasers. To fire both lasers at all, you need timing within a 3-frame window, which is much smaller than the window for SHDF. Additionally you have to do a relatively complicated motion with the control stick to dash backwards and then turn around during the lag frames of the jump.

That said, I can do frame perfect reverse SHDL with reasonable consistency (80-90%) but it's much, much, much harder than SHDF.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh whatever, three frame window. I'm pretty sure SHDF is a four frame window.

EDIT: Yeah, I just checked, it's a four frame window if you want to just get the first frame of attack out, but if you want to actually hit in front of you with the second fair, you've only got a two or three frame window. So take that, Foxes.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

lol, 5 seconds. It took me about that long to master it because all things considered SHDF is a very easy tech. Much easier than retreating SHDL with Fox, for instance.

Stop being so ****ing cocky. Nobody cares that you think everything is easy

 

[Zelareth]

Lol I must be defunct cuz it took me maybe a few days to learn wavedashing and I still haven't figured out SHDF o_O

 

[Shai Hulud]

Stop being so ****ing cocky. Nobody cares that you think everything is easy

Well everything IS easy if you claw. It's almost like cheating.

 

[KevinM]

I do it without Clawing.. but most of what you've mentioned isn't that useful

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Well everything IS easy if you claw. It's almost like cheating.

True, and most people here don't claw, so don't go around saying it's easy PERIOD, say "it's easy, if you claw like me" or something

Spoiler

[cocky]btw, I can SHDL using just the Y and B button, and SHDF using only the y button and c-stick. without clawing[/cocky]

 

[Shai Hulud]

True, and most people here don't claw, so don't go around saying it's easy PERIOD, say "it's easy, if you claw like me" or something

Spoiler

[cocky]btw, I can SHDL using just the Y and B button, and SHDF using only the y button and c-stick. without clawing[/cocky]

Yeah I guess I should have qualified it. I can SHDL with the thumb-sliding and the control stick methods but not as consistently. Firing the lasers on the earliest frame with thumb-sliding is very difficult (try hitting a standing Falco) and doing reverse SHDL with control stick is very difficult. IMO being good at SHDL is very difficult without clawing but if you can do it that's awesome.

And I can't SHDF with C-stick to the right without clawing =(

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Then again, SHDF isn't gamebreaking...

*waits for a video involving a SHDF comeback. x_x*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsElaVIshkI
2:30, shdf helped me set up for a ken combo for the stock.