Custom Moveset controversy with VGBC

[Gidy]

Yesterday during VGBootCamp's Gimr, the president of VGBC, was asked if custom movesets we're going to be used during tournaments. His response was a no. Why? Not because of them being too overpowered. Not because of them being rejected by the community. They were banned because they take too long to unlock.

Let that set in

This is coming from people who primarily host Melee tournaments and the game, Melee, has a character that takes 24 hours to unlock. 24 Hours! In those 24 hours you would spend your time unlocking other characters. Now I know that Melee has been going on for awhile now so character data is stored on memory cards, but it took time for ANY smash game to unlock the characters. Just because this one takes less time than the others to unlock the characters that doesn't give it a reason to diss other options in the game.

D1, M2K, ZeRo and a whole bunch of other peoples are still supporting custom movesets.

Edit: Didn't know there was a competitive community section. Sorry mods

Edit2:

GimR just outright now said on stream that he was only complaining about how long they take to unlock and was concerned about that. He said that likely the first american tournaments won't allow custom movesets on the merit they take so long to unlock. He also mentioned he doesn't decide anything on the rule set at all.
.

So VGBC didn't ban custom movesets YET, but they possibly won't be used for the first few tournaments and they are worried about time for unlocking them.

 

[WertQuadNine]

I highly support custom moves! It could add a whole new twist to the competitive scene.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Well,I don't how can we can't resolved their complain through the use of sd cards ?
Anyways,I'm in full support of allowing custom movesets to be used in tournament rule play.It will add variety to the already growing meta game.

 

[XDaDePsak]

I already saw an official statement from Nintendo that custom movesets wouldn't be allowed in certain modes (like online) in order to preserve game balance.

 

[Pirate Goomba]

I would support custom movesets. They would be adding alot to competitive in terms of keeping it fresh and making different playstyles variable for different characters.

''takes too long to unlock'' is a very weak response.

 

[LordVacation]

I think if, like you said, the decision was due to power-- I'd understand.
The fact you can seemingly unlock everything in this new Smash in between washroom breaks in kinda silly...

 

[Gidy]

I already saw an official statement from Nintendo that custom movesets wouldn't be allowed in certain modes (like online) in order to preserve game balance.

This is nintendo trying to keep in touch with their community. The community did 4-3 Stocks and 8 minutes so I bet through game testing they did 2 stocks 5 minutes in order for pacing. However we have a broad new option available to us and I bet nintendo did this so the community would feel right at home.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

This would be incredibly disappointing and seems like very inadequate reasoning to outright ban what could be one of the best things about Smash 4.
There have to be ways around this. SD cards? Optimised unlock methods? C'mon, GimR.

 

[roymustang1990-]

I would support custom movesets. They would be adding alot to competitive in terms of keeping it fresh and making different playstyles variable for different characters.

''takes too long to unlock'' is a very weak response.

Yes it is a weak response.I agree. A better response would have been that custom movesets will make learning match ups a much greater task,overall more work.i could understood the annoyance.

 

[Gidy]

This would be incredibly disappointing and seems like very inadequate reasoning to outright ban what could be one of the best things about Smash 4.
There have to be ways around this. SD cards? Optimised unlock methods? Cmon, GimR.

I see SD Cards working especially since everybody in NA has a downloaded Smash game so transferring games/save data would work. I believe that custom characters are transferrable to the Wii U version too so you would only have to unlock them once

 

[Captain Norris]

That is the poorest excuse I have ever heard. Let the people decide if Custom Moves should or should not be banned!

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

While it may be difficult for the Wii U, it will be quite easy for the 3DS. Might be more reason for the 3DS staying relevant after Wii U version comes out.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Moved this thread.

Thank god GIMR isn't the be all and end all of this. I don't see why cutting one of the games most fantastic features is a good idea. lmao

 

[elliotnz]

Why would Nintendo go to all this effort with custom moves and then not make online capable

And I don't even want it. Too many variables to remember

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

It's silly reasoning. They should all be unlocked by the first big tourney for Smash 4.

And who know how it'll work in smash wii u? It doesn't have smash run. Who is to say that it'll take long when we don't even know the procedure?

Not GimR.

 

[R0Y]

Well, they should be, so I'm okay with this reasoning either way.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Yes it is a weak response.I agree. A better response would have been that custom movesets will make learning match ups a much greater task,overall more work.i could understood the annoyance.

"Custom moves would make the meta more interesting, banned."

k.

 

[BooSex]

Custom moves are being used in the tournament currently being run on ClashTournaments' stream. I'm sure everyone doesn't have everything but they should be perfectly time after the game is out for a while.

Care what GimR says. ;333

 

[Waluigi is too big]

Well, it looks like I'm not joining the competitive scene for this game. It is going to die pretty fast if they ban smash4's interesting mechanics that could breed to life into the competitive community.

 

[[TSON]]

Banning them because they're too hard to unlock is weird, but I think there might be too many possibilities to really make them legal. The first couple minutes of the game you'd have to bait out the special moves just to figure out which ones your opponent is running unless it shows up on screen (does it?).

It's not like fighting game assists where you pretty much would know from the CSS and it doesn't make a ton of difference either way, these are fundamental game-changing aspects that could completely change the way a character is played. You can't counterpick assists (say a character gets an energy projectile as a custom special, Ness might want to stay with default magnet rather than going for a customized one, etc) if you don't know what they are before the match starts.

Not only that, but it'll kinda mess up stuff like spacing. If you're expecting a move to work a certain way and a character to have a certain range limit and then suddenly they can shoot a fireball or breathe ice or something, that's weird. There would be tens of thousands of different special attack mixture possibilities to learn to space against, not just x number of characters. That would throw matchup knowledge basically out of the window.

And in addition to all of that, we have like what, 1000+ to test and make sure they aren't OP? What if one is? Or 13? How will everyone remember that 50/1000 (and which of those 1000) are banned? It's a cool idea but there's just too many things that it affects negatively.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Custom moves are being used in the tournament currently being run on ClashTournaments' stream. I'm sure everyone doesn't have everything but they should be perfectly time after the game is out for a while.

Care what GimR says. ;333

I'm losing huge respect for GimR for this. I guess we should ban the unlockable characters because they take time to unlock?

And yeah, ClashTournamets is holding a tournament with Custom Moves with no Counter Picking system and it seems to be fine.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I mean, initially it kinda makes sense because the game just came out. But honestly, later down the line, even in a few months, anyone who's put enough effort into the game to go to a tournament, let alone bring a setup, has probably clocked enough time to have them all.

 

[Gidy]

Why would Nintendo go to all this effort with custom moves and then not make online capable

And I don't even want it. Too many variables to remember

I'm not wanting to start regular movesets vs. custom movesets debate, but aren't "variables" what the competitive smash community like? Wavedashing, tech rolling, edgeguarding, L-Cancelling, Di, Smash Di, etc.

And you can use them online. Just not in With Anyone mode. Like I said, this is probably because Nintendo wants to be current with how tourney rules go.

 

[Captain Norris]

Banning them because they're too hard to unlock is weird, but I think there might be too many possibilities to really make them legal. The first couple minutes of the game you'd have to bait out the special moves just to figure out which ones your opponent is running unless it shows up on screen (does it?).

It's not like fighting game assists where you pretty much would know from the CSS and it doesn't make a ton of difference either way, these are fundamental game-changing aspects that could completely change the way a character is played. You can't counterpick assists (say a character gets an energy projectile as a custom special, Ness might want to stay with default magnet rather than going for a customized one, etc) if you don't know what they are before the match starts.

Not only that, but it'll kinda mess up stuff like spacing. If you're expecting a move to work a certain way and a character to have a certain range limit and then suddenly they can shoot a fireball or breathe ice or something, that's weird. There would be tens of thousands of different special attack mixture possibilities to learn to space against, not just x number of characters. That would throw matchup knowledge basically out of the window.

And in addition to all of that, we have like what, 1000+ to test and make sure they aren't OP? What if one is? Or 13? How will everyone remember that 50/1000 (and which of those 1000) are banned?

What id you could be allowed to watch your opponent pick their moves? For example, there is a rock paper scissors match, and the winner gets to choose the custom moves second. This would happen after they both choose their character. That way, tghere would be no baiting.

 

[roymustang1990-]

"Custom moves would make the meta more interesting, banned."

k.

And I like how you ignored my first post,where I already said I was favor of custom moves being used in tournament play.

 

[Gidy]

What id you could be allowed to watch your opponent pick their moves? For example, there is a rock paper scissors match, and the winner gets to choose the custom moves second. This would happen after they both choose their character. That way, tghere would be no baiting.

And is it bad that players should learn to adapt? These custom moves are kind of like adding newcomers. You don't know what their moves are, but you will over time.

 

[Booster]

I think Doctor Mario/Lucina/Dark Pit's reasoning behind them not being alts is worse.

 

[infomon]

I don't care if custom moves are banned in some tournaments that occur within the first 6 months of the game coming out.

Because those tournaments don't really matter. Everyone is n00bs. "I was the best in a brand new game when we were all n00bs" is kinda irrelevant.

GimR can do what he wants for his tournaments, but people can also run their own smashfests and tourneys.

 

[GamerGuy09]

And I like how you ignored my first post,where I already said I was favor of custom moves being used in tournament play.

Sorry if I sounded rude, I was referring to GimR's thought process, not yours.

 

[Untouch]

Screw them, this CT tournament is hype as hell with custom moves.
If moves are too strong, ban them. I don't see anything TOO strong right now.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Sorry if I sounded rude, I was referring to GimR's thought process, not yours.

Understandable.Moving on then.

 

[JetpackX]

So that means... No Palutena?!?!?!? No Ice Breath Kirby?!?!?

Welp. Palutena is officially banned from tournaments.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Moved this thread.

Thank god GIMR isn't the be all and end all of this. I don't see why cutting one of the games most fantastic features is a good idea. lmao

Yeah, beat me to it. I was going to ask why GIMR's opinion should be the end of the discussion.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

If Custom Movesets are banned for such a reason as "they're too hard to unlock", then I'll just stop playing by competitive rules, and not go to tournaments. Custom Moves is one of the things I'm most excited for about this game, since it can make the competitive scene have far more depth than it already has.

 

[Captain Norris]

And is it bad that players should learn to adapt? These custom moves are kind of like adding newcomers. You don't know what their moves are, but you will over time.

You took what I said out of context. that was in response to having matches drag on due people waiting to figure out the moves the opponent has. I am saying that they could already know the moves ahead of time. I am all in favor of custom moves

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Interesting reasoning. Can't say I completely disagree with it, from watching their streams unlocking all moves DOES seem to take a long time.

Did he say whether it was for early tournaments (since in the first few months, it's fair to not expect people to have unlocked everything) or all tournaments?

So that means... No Palutena?!?!?!?

She has default specials.

 

[Ffamran]

Can't they, y'know, ask Nintendo for a "tournament" edition or something that has all the characters and moves unlocked?

 

[TimeSmash]

Uh yeah no, it's lovely to have an opinion but don't try to make it a rule. I don't really favor Nazis. If something takes too long to unlock, clearly you're not being dedicated enough, and Smash 4's unlock rate has been shown to be extremely generous

 

[GamerGuy09]

Can't they, y'know, ask Nintendo for a "tournament" edition or something that has all the characters and moves unlocked?

I could totally see an alternate online mode that does include custom moves if there is demand for it.

 

[JetpackX]

Can't they, y'know, ask Nintendo for a "tournament" edition or something that has all the characters and moves unlocked?

Ultimate Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U?