Crossdressing in public

[Sehnsucht]

This analogy, while a bit... odd, is pretty much right. One thing that some trans people try to do, and they shouldn't do, is try to hide their past, especially if they fall under the category of those who transitioned later on in life (18 years +). It's fine to live, represent themselves, and identify as their preferred gender, but they also need to acknowledge when the time calls for it that they were physically a different gender, since their experiences then molds their personality, and memories cannot and should not be erased.

See my post a bit above where I originally introduce this giraffe business. 8P

Otherwise, good to know. And I agree with everything you present, including the remainder of your post:

If a trans person, especially those who have undergone all necessary surgeries, feel they need to reveal their birth-given physical gender, that's up to them. Regardless, trans people do not transition to "trick" the public for anything. Why anyone would believe this is based on conservative extremist views from politicians and media whose ignorance views the community in such a negative light.

The best thing you can do is get to know a transgender person, be it pre-transition, mid-transition, or post-transition. Many who aren't too aware of the community will come to find that trans people are just as much people as any other "normal" individual. Not that I'm implying you view the trans community as abnormal, more than I speak for the general public as a whole (especially those who have a misplaced sense of what "normal" really is).

I don't know any trans people, nor ever have. Though that's likely because I'm not all too much of a social person. Can't exactly meet people if I don't get out into the world as much. XP

And I know you're not implying anything on my part. Discrimination based on cosmetic or identity elements (dress, appearance, speech, coloration, gender, etc.) never made much sense to me. If one is to discriminate against anything, let it be toward those who exhibit unfavourable constitutions (hatred, bigotry, generally being a poopyhead, etc.).

 

[Gerpington]

I guess I have a better understanding of the terms now. I was also basing my own knowledge off of what OP said, when mentioned how the employee thought he was a girl, until seeing his ID. I guess it should just be appropriate to dispel the truth rather than dragging assumptions, let alone someone's feelings on for the ride. Especially if it's going to come out at one point or another. So basically, crossdressing with the intent to fool someone is perhaps my only reason as to why I'd be against it.

I may take this to PM for hijacking the thread, but back to transgenders. So if someone identifies themselves as a "transgender girl", that means they were initially born with...for a lack of better term, "boy parts" and decided to undergo a sex change? And vice versa? Or do they not have to go through an operation, and keep their respective "parts"? It's just whatever you want to identify as?

Finally, is there some brain chemistry, genetic, or biological code that can imply if one will identify as a transgender? Or is a product of the environment? I'm guessing it's both, but I'd like to see the science behind this as well.

I don't have much time before work, so I'll just give you a few links if you'd like to read up on stuff, but I'll explain your first few questions.

As far as I can tell (after talking to them a bit in pm), OP is a crossdresser and likes the illusion of it, but I comment as to why they crossdress, but I do not think they identify as female.

Now then, onto the meat the of it all. Before I start, just know I am no expert and will not pretend I am this is all from my own research I've done to better figure myself out. The term "Transgender" is an umbrella term that refers to any person who identifies as a different gender than that to which they were assigned at birth one must transition legally to be legally identified as the opposite gender by the law. It varies state to state, but over all this just means the changing of documents (birth certificate, driver's license, etc) Some states require the actual sex change, some require just the beginning of hrt (hormone replacement therapy), and and such forth, but over all you need a doctor's approval before you'll be able to do anything toward legally transitioning.

Physically transitioning does not just mean one goes through with a sex change opperation. It all depends on how the transgender person feels and what they need to be happy.

But quite a few get the hormone replacement therapy (in the case of a transgender woman they would get estrogen injections, transgender men would get testosterone injections) These injections change a person's appearance quite considerably the only thing that estrogen (in regards to transgender women) cannot change the voice a long with other factors. If gender dysphoria is caught before puberty and the parents give their permission, however, one can undergo puberty blockers to stop the main effects of puberty and thus an individual will be able to transition later in life far more seamlessly, but obviously this option is not open to many transgender people. Many do not under go the genital reconstruction surgery because it is a very expensive operation:

"The total cost of procedures for a single individual can vary from $7,000to $50,000, although average male-to-female surgery costs only $23,000over two years. Still, let's consider the absolute worst-case scenario, two$50,000 surgeries each year."

Quoted from here: http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2013/03/05/zimmerly-the-real-costs-of-sex-reassignment-surgery/


For your last question I am no expert on brain chemistry and won't try to be, but I found a few links and sources to support that, yes.

You may PM me if you wish to learn more, or ask me more personal questions on the matter (as I am a transgender individual myself), but I am always happy to at least attempt to inform those that wish to be informed.


Here's some two links for you:

the transgender brain:

http://transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/

http://www.newscientist.com/article...rences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.VCypRPldVEU

Effects of hormones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_(male-to-female)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_(female-to-male)

Puberty blockers:

http://gendercreativekids.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/TransActive-OHSC-Testimony.pdf

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

It will personally bother me for quite a while, due to the lack of experience being around cross dressers. Unless you count cosplays...seeing a man dressed up as Misty from Pokemon. That did not sit well with me, and that image still haunts me to this day.

Anyways, quick question. Do cross dressers identify themselves as the opposite gender? Or is it simply clothes they find appealing to wear? I would personally not enjoy being tricked into liking a person who I thought was a woman, only to be revealed that said person is a man.

I crossdress, because i prefer to look like woman, however i dont identify myself as a female.

 

[Gerpington]

Just to put a face to this argument. This is me, I am transgender. Can you honestly say you'd be able to tell if I simply walked passed you on the street? Those that seem bothered by transgender people and crossdressing never seem to be able to tell that I was assigned male at birth, sure you can tell if you stare at me for a decent amount of time, but the only people that are going to do that are likely people that I am close with or possibly store/ restaurant employees. So I don't see how we are so degenerate and disruptive to society.

It's not like I go up to people, shake their hand and say "Hello, My name is Quinn I am a female with a penis." and walk away.

 

[Sucumbio]

At least you shave. I have a coworker that's got a great body and at a distance totally passes for female but he won't shave even when he goes out in a dress lol

 

[Gerpington]

At least you shave. I have a coworker that's got a great body and at a distance totally passes for female but he won't shave even when he goes out in a dress lol

I don't have to shave often tbh. and I assume when I finally go on hormones I rarely will have to if ever.

 

[Sucumbio]

God i envy you. Body hair is the bane of my existence.

 

[Gerpington]

God i envy you. Body hair is the bane of my existence.

I weigh 110. There isn't enough body mass for hair to grow. Like most male born people have hairy chests? TMI but I only ever got a bit of hair around my nips and very thin hairs in the middle of my chest. Not noticeable at all.

My father may have left when I was really young, but he left decent genes so I forgive him.

 

[Sehnsucht]

It's not like I go up to people, shake their hand and say "Hello, My name is Quinn I am a female with a penis." and walk away.

As an agent of discord, I encourage you to do this all the time.

 

[Sucumbio]

Me on the other hand weigh in at 240 and have thick dark caveman hair all over me. I stopped hair removal cause it's coarse and curly and tends to ingrow. Bah laser hair removal but i need to rob a bank first lol

 

[Gerpington]

As an agent of discord, I encourage you to do this all the time.

Let me get the dating portion out of my life first and once I have a solid relationship (read: get away driver) I will happily do this.

Though years from now..the second part of that statement may no longer be true.

 

[Hina]

One thing that some trans people try to do, and they shouldn't do, is try to hide their past, especially if they fall under the category of those who transitioned later on in life (18 years +). It's fine to live, represent themselves, and identify as their preferred gender, but they also need to acknowledge when the time calls for it that they were physically a different gender, since their experiences then molds their personality, and memories cannot and should not be erased.

Er, I'm quoting somebody for that part. I'm not sure if it's part of this community's culture to italicize quotes, but directly stating it should make it obvious.

I wanted to mention this because I think that it depends on the situation whether or not the individual in person should hide their past. If one is a post-op transsexual who has taken years of hormones (in tandem with various therapies and other procedures though some optional), then they should decide if disclosing their past is worth doing on a case-by-case basis. Some people are willing to fatally harm transsexuals for their mere being while some would admire them for whatever qualities they believe shine through thanks to that part of their identity. It is much, much safer to only disclose the information to somebody after finding out if they are trustworthy or not. I'm not going to get too close to somebody who wouldn't accept me for that, anyway.

 

[Sucumbio]

Quinn a personal question I realize but are you going to have gender reassignment surgery? Oh and my wife says she'd flirt with you based on that photo ;]

 

[Gerpington]

Quinn a personal question I realize but are you going to have gender reassignment surgery? Oh and my wife says she'd flirt with you based on that photo ;]

Hormones yes, bottom surgery probably not.

I'm not sexual and my gender dysphoria is mostly about the roughness in my facial features and lack of curves. The penis is just kinda there and I can live with that.

The surgery is way out of my pay grade anyway.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I wanted to mention this because I think that it depends on the situation whether or not the individual in person should hide their past. If one is a post-op transsexual who has taken years of hormones (in tandem with various therapies and other procedures though some optional), then they should decide if disclosing their past is worth doing on a case-by-case basis. Some people are willing to fatally harm transsexuals for their mere being while some would admire them for whatever qualities they believe shine through thanks to that part of their identity. It is much, much safer to only disclose the information to somebody after finding out if they are trustworthy or not. I'm not going to get too close to somebody who wouldn't accept me for that, anyway.

Okay, perhaps "hide" wasn't exactly the best choice of a word on my part. The point I was mostly trying to make was that trans people shouldn't really be ashamed for having been born at an assigned gender, if that makes more sense. Does that make more sense?

EDIT: Also, if people are going to go into detail about their bodies, etc., that's what PMs are for, unless the debate was specifically about sharing info on one's body. Let's not muddy up this debate with unrelated conversations.

 

[Gerpington]

Okay, perhaps "hide" wasn't exactly the best choice of a word on my part. The point I was mostly trying to make was that trans people shouldn't really be ashamed for having been born at an assigned gender, if that makes more sense. Does that make more sense?

EDIT: Also, if people are going to go into detail about their bodies, etc., that's what PMs are for, unless the debate was specifically about sharing info on one's body. Let's not muddy up this debate with unrelated conversations.

Oops my bad.

 

[Tsukihi Araragi]

I don't really care. It's none of my business what you decide to wear.

But anyways, when I was little I thought that I was a girl who was mistaken for a boy. (I didn't know about body parts at the time.) There are times when I do feel like I was born in the wrong body but at the same time I have no interest in altering my body. I'm already really skinny and really lacking in any body/facial hair.

 

[Gerpington]

I don't really care. It's none of my business what you decide to wear.

But anyways, when I was little I thought that I was a girl who was mistaken for a boy. (I didn't know about body parts at the time.) There are times when I do feel like I was born in the wrong body but at the same time I have no interest in altering my body. I'm already really skinny and really lacking in any body/facial hair.

There's nothing wrong with that. I know a few people that identify as the opposite gender but don't really go through with HRT or anything past that. And if you're fine with your body how it is, no need to change it.

I was like you for a while too...I never had to shave till I was like 18 and I still have very little body hair and I am and always have been real thin.

 

[Tsukihi Araragi]

There's nothing wrong with that. I know a few people that identify as the opposite gender but don't really go through with HRT or anything past that. And if you're fine with your body how it is, no need to change it.

I was like you for a while too...I never had to shave till I was like 18 and I still have very little body hair and I am and always have been real thin.

I could easily pull off crossdressing, I just need to grow my hair out a little more. (The one on my head.)

 

[Sucumbio]

I see it now... Queens of Smash :D

Nah. But yeah i went through my 20s constantly fretting over my appearance and lamenting that I wasn't female. I found myself thinking I was alone in this strangest of categories... Male wanting to be female and yet still sexually attracted to women. My life ambition was to be a lesbian lol. I ended up taking way too many drugs in a pattern of self destruction because at least i didn't have to think about anything anymore. Then i met my wife, an actual lesbian, and somehow things changed. I didn't hide anymore. I grew my hair long, shaved my body and waxed too and started body sculpture. Then I started getting harassed at work and in public.

I folded, my soon to be bride was thousands of miles away in Mississippi, (we met on GFs PoTD) and i knew if i moved I'd need a job so i cut my long hair and went full Man mode. Been there ever since i suppose but i still daydream of being a woman. She's still a lesbian and she often wishes she had a penis. And yet even still she and I found mutual attraction - love is unpredictable if anything else.

Anyway, take of this what you will but it speaks to several things. The rigid lines of masculinity, femininity, the set-in-stone morals of sexuality, it's all bullocks. Humans are far more fluid in their desires and their perceptions of self and appeal, and it's mainly religion that's to blame for casting the molds that have served to oppress the masses as if somehow the species population, propagation and flourishing would be threatened without it.

 

[Gerpington]

you could of transitioned moved and then wouldn't have to explain to anyone because....there's a big ol fancy F on your legal documents.

 

[Deleted member]

I can't think of a single good reason why people have a problem with it since it doesn't harm anyone. The whole idea of there being "men's clothes" and "women's clothes" is a man-made concept that has no real, objective meaning. Being transgender makes this problem all the more annoying for me, since dressing in a way that matches my gender would be considered "crossdressing" by most people, so they'd end up getting their panties all wadded up over it.

 

[Sucumbio]

you could of transitioned moved and then wouldn't have to explain to anyone because....there's a big ol fancy F on your legal documents.

I wasn't ready. That's something else... when considering those who are not fully certain of their gender identity or sexual orientation there is an overwhelming majority within that population who keep it to themselves. It's unfortunate but I imagine as time goes forward that number will become less ... I hope so anyway.

My Gay and Lesbian Lit professor put it a way I've always liked to remember: It's a spectrum. Just about everyone has a moment in their life they may or may not recall when someone of the same sex made their heart "flutter." There's a similar spectrum for what gender we identify with, and what roles within those genders we accept and deny. It hope that as time passes this spectrum will be recognized with more open arms, and that people will break down the ages-old walls that have been erected to "protect" the "sanctity" of Man and Woman.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I see it now... Queens of Smash :D

Nah. But yeah i went through my 20s constantly fretting over my appearance and lamenting that I wasn't female. I found myself thinking I was alone in this strangest of categories... Male wanting to be female and yet still sexually attracted to women.

7 billion people in the world. I assure you, no matter what your case may be, you will never stand alone in your issues.

and it's mainly religion that's to blame for casting the molds that have served to oppress the masses as if somehow the species population, propagation and flourishing would be threatened without it.

I don't blame religion more so than I blame the people in power, beginning with Charlemagne, who warped and twisted the views and teachings of said religion, and then proceeded to brainwash the masses and murder countless others who were resistant to brainwashing.

 

[Sucumbio]

Ah well, that's depression for you, it gives one tunnel vision.

I am impressed that you'd identify Charlemagne so specifically as a catalyst, very interesting. The seeds of hatred are indeed spread far and wide throughout the history of the Church, and one could even locate evidence as far back as Constantine I and the First Council of Nicaea in year 325. Before this, early Christians were persecuted by Rome, but Constantine's Era saw a reformation so overpowering that it flipped the board, really. And in so doing the Church was allowed to create its first true set of global standards for living, worshiping, serving the Church, etc. It is here I believe that things while "better" than ever since St. Peter were also set up to fail.

 

[LightlyToasted]

Indeed. Personally i feel that Drag is more of a mockery than just dressing like a normal woman.
For me i try to dress as a casual female and act as myself. I think drag queens make dressing femininely seem comical to average person. but thats just me.

Eddie Izzard, a famous comedian wears womens clothing, he just enjoys the way it feels I guess. I was working backstage at one of his shows at a local theatre and he wasn't in full drag, but did have his nails painted. Just a way of expressing himself!

And cloths are cloths, while gender specific ones typically were made to compliment that gender USUAL body type, this is the 21st century. If someone wearing another genders clothing bothers you and you are a male, then chances are you are a hypocrite cause your panties are in a twist.

Though a nono on the nudity, and wear appropriate clothing for where you are going.(as in the context of where you are going...)

 

[Sneether]

Its very disgusting, if I had a girlfriend and she was wearing pants I would be horrified because she is dressing as a male and I should be the man of the house because well I am male

 

[Braydon]

I wasn't ready. That's something else... when considering those who are not fully certain of their gender identity or sexual orientation there is an overwhelming majority within that population who keep it to themselves. It's unfortunate but I imagine as time goes forward that number will become less ... I hope so anyway.

I hate to burst your bubble, well really not so much but anyway, there will always be closeted gays. People who feel uncertain of themselves get uneasy and nervous, and people who are uneasy and nervous feel the need to hide. They'll always hide, it's an inherent part of human nature.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Its very disgusting, if I had a girlfriend and she was wearing pants I would be horrified because she is dressing as a male and I should be the man of the house because well I am male

This is either satire or you are a time traveler from the 1800s.
Either way, you have failed quite badly.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Its very disgusting, if I had a girlfriend and she was wearing pants I would be horrified because she is dressing as a male and I should be the man of the house because well I am male

I'm assuming that's a joke.

I hate to burst your bubble, well really not so much but anyway, there will always be closeted gays. People who feel uncertain of themselves get uneasy and nervous, and people who are uneasy and nervous feel the need to hide. They'll always hide, it's an inherent part of human nature.

This is because society, especially one formed from years of religious conservatism, has made being any form of the LGBT community taboo and shameful. If, and I stress the word, "if", society generations down the road finally accomplishes universal equality and tolerance, religions' existence notwithstanding, I'll hazard a bet that more and more people wouldn't need to be closeted, as they would have nothing to really fear outside of say a few conservatives who find LGBT-related issues to not be their cup of tea.

 

[Sneether]

I'm assuming that's a joke.

This is because society, especially one formed from years of religious conservatism, has made being any form of the LGBT community taboo and shameful. If, and I stress the word, "if", society generations down the road finally accomplishes universal equality and tolerance, religions' existence notwithstanding, I'll hazard a bet that more and more people wouldn't need to be closeted, as they would have nothing to really fear outside of say a few conservatives who find LGBT-related issues to not be their cup of tea.

Yes it is

 

[Braydon]

This is because society, especially one formed from years of religious conservatism, has made being any form of the LGBT community taboo and shameful. If, and I stress the word, "if", society generations down the road finally accomplishes universal equality and tolerance, religions' existence notwithstanding, I'll hazard a bet that more and more people wouldn't need to be closeted, as they would have nothing to really fear outside of say a few conservatives who find LGBT-related issues to not be their cup of tea.

No people who are uncertain of themselves feel uneasy because it's an inherent part of human nature. You can only blame so much on religion. Yes there would be less closeted gays if it weren't for religion, that doesn't mean religion is entirely to blame for people trying to hide that they're gay.

Further more trying to blame conservatives for your problems with a blanket statement is quite like discriminating against the LGBT community. You're pretty much insinuating it's reasonable to fear conservatism. You know, I wouldn't consider the LGBT community to be quite my cup of tea, but I try to be tolerant, so I'd appreciate not being crucified.

 

[Claire Diviner]

No people who are uncertain of themselves feel uneasy because it's an inherent part of human nature. You can only blame so much on religion. Yes there would be less closeted gays if it weren't for religion, that doesn't mean religion is entirely to blame for people trying to hide that they're gay.

Believe me, religion had a big hand in the condemnation of homosexuals. It's not just Christianity either, as religions, such as Islam has also had a history of LGBT oppression.

Here are a couple of interesting reads on the matter, as homosexuality and religion has had quite the history; some good, some [obviously] pretty bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity_and_homosexuality

http://legacy.fordham.edu/Halsall/pwh/index-med.asp#c5

http://legacy.fordham.edu/Halsall/pwh/index.asp

Further more trying to blame conservatives for your problems with a blanket statement is quite like discriminating against the LGBT community. You're pretty much insinuating it's reasonable to fear conservatism. You know, I wouldn't consider the LGBT community to be quite my cup of tea, but I try to be tolerant, so I'd appreciate not being crucified.

Where did I say conservatism is to be feared? I guess when I say "a few conservatives", it somehow encompasses all of them? Please.

 

[Braydon]

When you say that the few are conservative, it implies pretty heavily that the two are linked, that conservatism is linked to discrimination. If you didn't think it was linked to conservatism why would have to specify that the few would be conservative?

Also again, I never said religion is blameless, but blaming people feeling the need to be closeted on religion is quite an overreach.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

When you say that the few are conservative, it implies pretty heavily that the two are linked, that conservatism is linked to discrimination. If you didn't think it was linked to conservatism why would have to specify that the few would be conservative?

Also again, I never said religion is blameless, but blaming people feeling the need to be closeted on religion is quite an overreach.

The reason people feel the need to be closeted is almost entirely because of fears of how people around them will react. Almost all of that, virtually all of the virulent, socially acceptable homophobia? It comes from religion. Without that, there's no reason to be closeted. No reason to pretend to be straight. The degree to which religion is not responsible is the degree to which non-religious factors have led to the marginalization, ostracism, and "othering" of homosexuality. And that degree is not very large.

 

[Braydon]

The reason people feel the need to be closeted is almost entirely because of fears of how people around them will react. Almost all of that, virtually all of the virulent, socially acceptable homophobia? It comes from religion. Without that, there's no reason to be closeted. No reason to pretend to be straight. The degree to which religion is not responsible is the degree to which non-religious factors have led to the marginalization, ostracism, and "othering" of homosexuality. And that degree is not very large.

I'm sorry do I need to repeat myself?

I thought I just went over this. People who feel unsure (of their sexuality) will feel uncomfortable (of making it publicly known) because people who are unsure, feel uneasy. regardless of whether or not people will think ill of them, they will worry what people will think.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm sorry do I need to repeat myself?

I thought I just went over this. People who feel unsure (of their sexuality) will feel uncomfortable (of making it publicly known) because people who are unsure, feel uneasy. regardless of whether or not people will think ill of them, they will worry what people will think.

And yet, awkward, unsure straight people have no problem with admitting openly that they are straight.

The problem is heteronormativity, brought on largely by religious zealotry. If being gay isn't "abnormal", then people won't feel uneasy or uncomfortable about it any more than they would feel uneasy about being straight. But no - people assume that you're straight. If you're gay, it's somehow a big deal. In many places, it'll get you kicked out of your home or mocked, bullied, and abused.

 

[Braydon]

And yet, awkward, unsure straight people have no problem with admitting openly that they are straight.

The problem is heteronormativity, brought on largely by religious zealotry. If being gay isn't "abnormal", then people won't feel uneasy or uncomfortable about it any more than they would feel uneasy about being straight. But no - people assume that you're straight. If you're gay, it's somehow a big deal. In many places, it'll get you kicked out of your home or mocked, bullied, and abused.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason people assume other people are straight is because, most people are? You see, gays count as a minority group because they're the minority... You sound like your talking about the fictional world all fox news casters fear where everyone turns gay and there are no more children and humans go extinct.

A sexually awkward person "admitting openly that they are straight" is basically admitting to the default, it's not really telling people anything more than they already assumed. Further more if they refuse to answer a lot of people would assume they're gay, so really it's because of the stigma, that they want to avoid, that they readily say they're straight. You know they might not even say they were straight if it weren't for stigma about gays.

Straight people openly admitting to being straight is as much a result of homophobia as closeted gays are, but that doesn't mean it's the only cause.

This isn't a legitimate argument it's something you fabricated on the spot to contradict me. Just twisting, and twisting, and twisting, arguments.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason people assume other people are straight is because, most people are? You see, gays count as a minority group because they're the minority... You sound like your talking about the fictional world all fox news casters fear where everyone turns gay and there are no more children and humans go extinct.

Yes, they are technically a minority as far as statistics know. Also, I did not see anything in Budget Player Cadet_'s post that would read as if gays are everywhere. If anything, his argument is further strengthened by the fact that homosexuals are treated as a minority, especially with the maltreatment the LGBT community receives in just the U.S. alone, never mind the far tighter-a**ed countries, like those in the Middle East, or Russia.

A sexually awkward person "admitting openly that they are straight" is basically admitting to the default, it's not really telling people anything more than they already assumed. Further more if they refuse to answer a lot of people would assume they're gay, so really it's because of the stigma, that they want to avoid, that they readily say they're straight. You know they might not even say they were straight if it weren't for stigma about gays.

You're implying that sexually awkward people would feel shame in admitting to being straight. 7 billion people in the world, I'm sure there are some who would fear admitting to being straight, but it's not like you see religious groups or even LGBT supporters wielding "God hates straights" picket signs.

Straight people openly admitting to being straight is as much a result of homophobia as closeted gays are, but that doesn't mean it's the only cause.

Not really. Straight people oftentimes don't need to admit to being straight because society has by and large taught that being straight is a normal default, so unless they're "metrosexual" (as the term goes), there's no reason for people to challenge their sexuality. For the longest time, I thought Niel Patrick Harris was straight until he openly admitted to being homosexual.

This isn't a legitimate argument it's something you fabricated on the spot to contradict me. Just twisting, and twisting, and twisting, arguments.

How the hell was it fabricated on the spot?! If you pay attention to the various media, especially outside Fox "News", there are articles and stories of LGBT people being ostracized daily, some in a very rage-inducing manner. Google, by itself, is filled to the brim with articles detailing such accounts.

 

[Braydon]

I didn't say that she made up discrimination against gays on the spot, I said her argument for believing gays wouldn't be closeted without discrimination was fabricated.

You're implying that sexually awkward people would feel shame in admitting to being straight. 7 billion people in the world, I'm sure there are some who would fear admitting to being straight

That's the point I was trying to make, even with no discrimination some people aren't going to want to talk about it and so, there will always be closeted gays.