Crossdressing in public

[AZ_Spellbound]

Hello Smashboards, i have a question. What's your opinions of people crossdressing in public?
I crossdress fairly often. The other day i picked up Destiny dressed as a female. I traded in games toward it, so the cashier need my I.D. He then became confused and found it slightly humorous.

Anyways, its a weird topic, but what do you all think?

 

[LarsINTJ]

It's not something I would feel comfortable taking part in, but I don't have a problem with other people cross-dressing. Obviously it indicates a particular harmless quirk, but everyone has quirks, they aren't the basis of someone's value as a person.

...so long as the quirks (acted upon) aren't contextually inappropriate or dangerously aggressive, that should go without saying.

 

[Thor]

Why should I be able to tell someone what they can and can't wear?

... That said, I'm against public nudity, because of public decency norms and some stuff (kids and perverts and a few other things are reasons to make people cover up). But as long as you ARE covered up [and there's not a risk of it falling off]...

I personally do not find any appeal in dressing as a woman would stereotypically dress (wearing a dress or skirt or whatever), but to each their own.

 

[ShyGuy16]

Hey, so long as you get the choice, then it's all gravy. If you work hard all day and want to spend what you make on something that makes you feel more like yourself, or something more fun, or even just something more comfy then by all means have at it. I know a guy who cross-dresses and even does pageants and all that in part because he finds it more enjoyable than his day job. Not that there really has to be a reason, so long as it makes you happy.

The only time I've ever been against cross-dressing was in middle school when a bunch of girls forced me into a kimono, put my hair in a bun and got the school newspaper to get a good picture in time for yearbook photos before I could object. It was not flattering on me at all.
...But you didn't need to know that story. XD

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

Hey, so long as you get the choice, then it's all gravy. If you work hard all day and want to spend what you make on something that makes you feel more like yourself, or something more fun, or even just something more comfy then by all means have at it. I know a guy who cross-dresses and even does pageants and all that in part because he finds it more enjoyable than his day job. Not that there really has to be a reason, so long as it makes you happy.

The only time I've ever been against cross-dressing was in middle school when a bunch of girls forced me into a kimono, put my hair in a bun and got the school newspaper to get a good picture in time for yearbook photos before I could object. It was not flattering on me at all.
...But you didn't need to know that story. XD

That's so awesome your friend does pagents. I have always wanted to do one.
Awwww I love kimonos XD

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Depends what you look like.

 

[LarsINTJ]

Depends what you look like.

Someone burly and hairy like me wouldn't be too convincing, lol.

At any rate, the opposite gender has a slightly different skeletal structure, something we can't really mimic or change.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Someone burly and hairy like me wouldn't be too convincing, lol. At any rate, the opposite gender has a slightly different skeletal structure, something we can't really mimic or change.

If someone dresses themselves in clothes that make them look good to the outside public then they will receive a generally favorable feedback. If someone dresses themselves in clothes that make them look bad and stand out then they will receive a generally negative feedback. I would get offended if someone cross dressed poorly because they are essentially exposing themselves to the general public in a manner that will offend most people's aesthetic sense because it makes them feel good.

There should be a social obligation that the few moments where strangers are forced to co-exist with one another should be moments where each individual stranger attempts to reduce the amount of strain their existence has on every other stranger in the shared vicinity. Cross dressing has its limits.

 

[LarsINTJ]

If someone dresses themselves in clothes that make them look good to the outside public then they will receive a generally favorable feedback. If someone dresses themselves in clothes that make them look bad and stand out then they will receive a generally negative feedback. I would get offended if someone cross dressed poorly because they are essentially exposing themselves to the general public in a manner that will offend most people's aesthetic sense because it makes them feel good.

There should be a social obligation that the few moments where strangers are forced to co-exist with one another should be moments where each individual stranger attempts to reduce the amount of strain their existence has on every other stranger in the shared vicinity. Cross dressing has its limits.

Unless they're on private property and disregarding the owner's preferences for upholding a particular standard of appearance (to the extent that they wish for you to leave yet you refuse) then it can't really be said that a cross-dresser is doing anything morally wrong.

Aesthetics are definitely important to keep in mind though, first impressions significantly impact how others judge you... with cascading consequences.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Damn, you can crossdress successfully as a girl? So jelly

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Unless they're on private property and disregarding the owner's preferences for upholding a particular standard of appearance (to the extent that they wish for you to leave yet you refuse) then it can't really be said that a cross-dresser is doing anything morally wrong. Aesthetics are definitely important to keep in mind though, first impressions significantly impact how others judge you... with cascading consequences.

This isn't the point I'm making. If you go out in public looking gaudy and have poor presentation sense then expect to be treated poorly. If you go out well polished and aesthetically well presented then expect to be socially accepted. I'm not making a commentary about morals or private property. I'm stating that presentation matters when it comes to judging these things and cross dressers who are in camps that 'stand out' are aware that the attention they are generating when they go out as such is not mostly going to be positive feedback.

 

[LarsINTJ]

Assuming the topic of debate, "Is it OK to cross-dress in public"?, I was just clarifying that it is not an ethical concern, didn't mean to suggest that @ #HBC | Acrostic might consider it an ethical issue.

Whether or not it is OK to cross-dress in public depends on what you hope to achieve by cross-dressing, will it be advantageous, superficial or detrimental for your social relations in a given context?

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

Damn, you can crossdress successfully as a girl? So jelly

Yeah, it takes some work, but i guess i can pull it off.

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

This isn't the point I'm making. If you go out in public looking gaudy and have poor presentation sense then expect to be treated poorly. If you go out well polished and aesthetically well presented then expect to be socially accepted. I'm not making a commentary about morals or private property. I'm stating that presentation matters when it comes to judging these things and cross dressers who are in camps that 'stand out' are aware that the attention they are generating when they go out as such is not mostly going to be positive feedback.

This is very true. As much as I don't like seeing people getting made fun of for their attire, doesnt have to be crossdressing. It can be anything somebody wears, look decent. If your dressing to get attention, then be prepared to get all types of feedback.

 

[Dark Lady]

Is this seriously a topic? O_O

Err...while crossdressing can be problematic in some aspects
(i.e

If you go out in public looking gaudy and have poor presentation sense then expect to be treated poorly. If you go out well polished and aesthetically well presented then expect to be socially accepted.

is... not a proper opinion. Not incorrect, sadly, due to the way current society functions)

it also is a means of expression for many. My main concerns with public crossdressing generally align with some of the attitudes of those who do; as some men who crossdress as women want to 'behave like a woman' which prolongs poor stereotypes, and can be misogynistic to a damaging extent.

To sum up: Perfectly fine. Just don't be a jerk if you're crossdressing. Especially if you're crossdressing to resemble a lady.

The most repect I have ever had for a crossdresser is for Conchita Wurst. Soooo badass!

 

[tyrannosaurusrik]

I give props to those who crossdress (especially if done very well. Even if not, that still takes a lot of bravery).

@ Dark Lady - That reminds me of this huge debate and commentary of white gay men appropriating/stealing black women's culture. One statement that stuck out to me the most was one stating something along the lines with "if that is how you are (gay white male with "black women" mannerisms) and identify as such, and as long as you do so respectfully and not mockingly, it is fine." It is not saying that you can "steal" the culture without knowing the struggles or dilemmas of black women, but be who you are respectfully.

I feel like culture appropriation is touchy subject, but interesting how it can relate to gender appropriation. Could mockingly being a lady or women be offensive, when drag (dress as girl/guy (essentially opposite of your sex and gender)) is such a popular form of entertainment in LGBT.... community?

 

[RunawayTarantula]

I'm completely fine with crossdressing. I mean, it's none of my business what you decide to wear. In fact, it's really impressive how well some people pull it off.

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

I give props to those who crossdress (especially if done very well. Even if not, that still takes a lot of bravery).

@ Dark Lady - That reminds me of this huge debate and commentary of white gay men appropriating/stealing black women's culture. One statement that stuck out to me the most was one stating something along the lines with "if that is how you are (gay white male with "black women" mannerisms) and identify as such, and as long as you do so respectfully and not mockingly, it is fine." It is not saying that you can "steal" the culture without knowing the struggles or dilemmas of black women, but be who you are respectfully.

I feel like culture appropriation is touchy subject, but interesting how it can relate to gender appropriation. Could mockingly being a lady or women be offensive, when drag (dress as girl/guy (essentially opposite of your sex and gender)) is such a popular form of entertainment in LGBT.... community?

Indeed. Personally i feel that Drag is more of a mockery than just dressing like a normal woman.
For me i try to dress as a casual female and act as myself. I think drag queens make dressing femininely seem comical to average person. but thats just me.

 

[tyrannosaurusrik]

That's the one thing I don't understand about the LGBT... community: we (the community) mostly don't fight or even support trans issues or lifestyles, yet we love Ru Paul's Drag Race and such. It's okay for entertainment but not real life issues? No community is perfect, but support needs to be stronger. Yes, the LGBT... community is a large clump of issues (attractions, identity, etc.) but the common issue is the varience on the gender norm.

With that being said, whether cross dressers label themselves and trans or not, I dig it and I support it.

I tried heals once. It sucked and not for me. Haha.

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

That's the one thing I don't understand about the LGBT... community: we (the community) mostly don't fight or even support trans issues or lifestyles, yet we love Ru Paul's Drag Race and such. It's okay for entertainment but not real life issues? No community is perfect, but support needs to be stronger. Yes, the LGBT... community is a large clump of issues (attractions, identity, etc.) but the common issue is the varience on the gender norm.

With that being said, whether cross dressers label themselves and trans or not, I dig it and I support it.

I tried heals once. It sucked and not for me. Haha.

I agree, like im just a crossdresser haha i have no plans to change my gender. im also heterosexual.
I suppose the LGBT shafts the trans portion of there community a bit. I really dont know, i dont really follow that community to be honest.

 

[Sucumbio]

I guess it depends on why the cross dresser is doing it. For those individuals who are one gender but identify as the other, and wish to dress to match their identity, I see no issue with it. But I suppose I'm with others when it comes to public decency. The same can be said of straight people who identify as their biological gender. Fat chicks shouldn't wear skinny tight short shorts. Showing that camel toe and ****? God how horrendous.

 

[smashbroskilla]

I think if you're going to do it put some effort into it at least. I work for a company that owns a popular night club that has been going on for 20 years. You got every type of person that comes into this club. From your bro dudes that talk about boats to cross dressing industrial/goth kids. My thing is this. If you're going to do it put some effort into it. I don't know what it's like or have ever done it myself but wow have I seen some dudes that slipped on a blouse or dress and walked out of the house. Last I checked women didn't have 5 o' clock shadow beards and looked at themselves in the mirror before they left the house.

 

[SmellTheJava]

As long as it's cute..

 

[Altanic]

I don't see anything wrong with it at all. Do what you want to do and what you like to do.

 

[Doon]

i'm open to this idea and support it. you should be proud of the gender and body you have, and not let anyone think otherwise or mislead them in a way that is supposed to confuse or alter your true identity.

 

[Near]

It's a degenerate and downright pathetic idea.

What else should I think of it?

 

[Carrill]

I see a huge problem in this thread...

When asked about crossdressing, everyone who's posted so far seems to be picturing a situation with a man who wishes to feminize himself. Why has no one brought up the subject of a woman who wants to appear more masculine? Do people not see that as a problem? If so, why is okay to despise men who want to express femininity and completely ignore the opposite?

This makes me believe that it isn't really crossdressing that people hate. People just hate men who dare to express femininity and femininity in general. It's awful.

 

[Mataata]

I think it's kind of insulting to transgendered people.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I personally don't believe in the term "cross dressing". What we wear does not define our gender; it is an expression of our taste in clothing. Also, Carrill made a bull's eye of a point when she mentioned that men dressing in clothing seen as feminine receive the worst bitter venom from the public, while women who dress in clothing seen as masculine are lauded for breaking the gender role mold and being labeled a strong woman and/or tomboy. It's actually a gross double-standard, and will likely remain an issue for no less than five more generations.

@ Mataata : The term is actually "transgender". "Transgendered" implies a past tense verb, which is actually incorrect; the term doesn't exist in the community. Just a little heads up.

 

[Thor]

It's a degenerate and downright pathetic idea.

What else should I think of it?

Care to explain?

 

[Near]

Care to explain?

Has society really reached the point where I need to explain to you why a man wearing a dress and walking around in public like that is degenerate?

I might be getting old, but rest assured that if I saw a man in a dress like that walking next to me and my kids I'd punch his teeth in.

 

[Gerpington]

As a transgender individual I don't mind people expressing themselves in a way society normally disapproves of...but only if you are doing it in a tasteful way. Drag queens/Drag kings bug me, is basically what I am saying.

With that said I don't really have to try to come off as the gender I wish to live as...so few think I am cross-dressing when I throw on my usual casual attire (I wear a lot of dresses, skirts, and leggings when not at work).

But if you identify as a male and wear dresses and such, good on you bro fight the stupidity that is societal norms. As for women that wish to dress more masculine, good on you sister. A lot of women shop in the men's clothing department anyway because functional pockets are freakin impossible to find in feminine attire and not everyone likes carrying around a purse.

Tl;dr to each their own. Just don't be disrespectful.

Has society really reached the point where I need to explain to you why a man wearing a dress and walking around in public like that is degenerate?

I might be getting old, but rest assured that if I saw a man in a dress like that walking next to me and my kids I'd punch his teeth in.

You can frick right off, sir.

 

[Noize]

Has society really reached the point where I need to explain to you why a man wearing a dress and walking around in public like that is degenerate?

I might be getting old, but rest assured that if I saw a man in a dress like that walking next to me and my kids I'd punch his teeth in.

I'd say society has reached a point where its values are swiftly changing and being reconsidered. The Scotts for centuries have worn something that is structurally a skirt and Link dances around in a tunic, which now a day is primarily a feminine piece of clothing. Would you punch Link if you saw him walking down the streets because he's in tights and what can technically be considered a dress? Does your idea that this is a degenerate act stem from something, or is it in place due to a lack of applying logic?

BTW. If you were to actually follow through with that, you should be ready for assault charges. Just saying they're people too and considering them less based on stylistic choices...Well, there's a number of foul things I could say.

 

[DunnoBro]

It should be approached the same way any new fashion trend should be:

Does it look stupid? If not, cool.

I don't personally approve of crossdressing but people should have every right to dress as they like as long as it isn't obscene/provocative. (Which is subjective, but they should be aware of their own lines and not cross them)

It is technically degeneracy though as it blurs the lines between the genders, which more often than not leads to weaker psyches, weaker personalities, and overall much weaker families. Societal norms aren't as arbitrary as some would like to think, and when we're totally ignorant to their construction we should be ready to accept the consequences of their deconstruction.

(Technically playing smash bros could be explained as being degenerate though, so not sure we should put much stock in the term)

It is also progress, as individuals should be free to express themselves however they wish. The opinions of the many should not hinder the feelings of the few.

Which is it more? I think that's up for the person to decide.

Some fun crossdressing facts though:

The main reason women look better in men's clothing than the reverse isn't so much the double standard(though people are naturally more accepting of whatever women do) but rather because men's clothing are very casual and not designed around a very specific, curvy, feminine frame. Women's clothing generally tries to accentuate those features and when men wear them without them, it should be understandable when we notice the difference more.

Heels were originally intended for men, Iirc for butchers to avoid getting blood on their shoes, though women eventually repurposed them into their own fashion.

@ Dark Lady - That reminds me of this huge debate and commentary of white gay men appropriating/stealing black women's culture. One statement that stuck out to me the most was one stating something along the lines with "if that is how you are (gay white male with "black women" mannerisms) and identify as such, and as long as you do so respectfully and not mockingly, it is fine." It is not saying that you can "steal" the culture without knowing the struggles or dilemmas of black women, but be who you are respectfully.

I feel like culture appropriation is touchy subject, but interesting how it can relate to gender appropriation. Could mockingly being a lady or women be offensive, when drag (dress as girl/guy (essentially opposite of your sex and gender)) is such a popular form of entertainment in LGBT.... community?

I believe if one wants to live in a multicultural society they should be prepared for their culture to spill off and actually "melt" into other cultures. And being familiar with the history of that culture shouldn't be a per-requisite when it isn't for people typically involved in that culture.

And yes, mockingly being a lady or man can be offensive just as being mockingly ANYTHING else can be offensive. This seems like an offensive issue than crossdressing issue.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Has society really reached the point where I need to explain to you why a man wearing a dress and walking around in public like that is degenerate?

I might be getting old, but rest assured that if I saw a man in a dress like that walking next to me and my kids I'd punch his teeth in.

So who are you to dictate what is "degenerate"? Where did you get these so-called "values"? If you saw a woman walking by you and your children in a white tanktop, no bra, and a pair of ripped jeans, would you punch her in the face too, or are you one of those hypocrites who live by a gross double standard?

 

[Thor]

Has society really reached the point where I need to explain to you why a man wearing a dress and walking around in public like that is degenerate?

I might be getting old, but rest assured that if I saw a man in a dress like that walking next to me and my kids I'd punch his teeth in.

Yes, actually. I'm clearly horribly degenerate, but I can't explain why.

Would you punch someone's teeth in if they painted all your boy children's rooms pink and all your girl children's room blue? Or would you discipline your daughter if she said she wants to be an engineer?

 

[Near]

Yes, actually. I'm clearly horribly degenerate, but I can't explain why.

Would you punch someone's teeth in if they painted all your boy children's rooms pink and all your girl children's room blue? Or would you discipline your daughter if she said she wants to be an engineer?

Your analogies don't match, though.
You think a man dressing like a woman and exposing the public to his idiotic, borderline sick fetish is in any way analogous to a choice in colors [in your own bedroom, no less] or a productive career choice?
Just goes to show how effed up your moral compass is if these things are comparable in your mind.

The rest of your are employing pitifully emotional arguments. The fact is, we don't need to see it. If you have a bizarre fetish for doing it, keep it within your own bedroom.
Just like how I wouldn't want to see, in the street: a woman with her twins hanging out, a man in a tight speedo showing his bulge, a disgusting feathery, leathery... thing from the pride parade, a man wearing a fursuit or whatever, etc.


I'm not particularly surprised to see this disgusting degeneracy here, obviously, especially since I assume you're all 90s/millennials. But ask yourself: do I really want to live in a world where everyone enacts his inappropriate fetishes in public? Do I really want to go out to the park with my children and have them exposed to all kinds of bizarre fetishes because everyone wants to "express themselves"? Do I want to walk with them past the guy in tight leather around his bulge, or some "transfox"or whatever barking in public with his little fox ears?

No.

It's clearly just a cry for attention, like your generation knows to do too well.

And don't even get me started on transvestites.

 

[DunnoBro]

While I don't completely agree you make valid enough points for me not to address every little detail, but in the end violence is no proper response. People should be free to be degenerate just as others should be free to point out they believe others are degenerate.

 

[Twewy]

I believe crossdressing is alright. It is your body, you may do as you please with it, and the way you dress won't change the way (some) people view you as a person. Like with anything, though, it only gets annoying when someone brags about it like they've accomplished something with their lives. Being proud is one thing, but bragging is another.

 

[Thor]

Your analogies don't match, though.
You think a man dressing like a woman and exposing the public to his idiotic, borderline sick fetish is in any way analogous to a choice in colors [in your own bedroom, no less] or a productive career choice?
Just goes to show how effed up your moral compass is if these things are comparable in your mind.

The rest of your are employing pitifully emotional arguments. The fact is, we don't need to see it. If you have a bizarre fetish for doing it, keep it within your own bedroom.
Just like how I wouldn't want to see, in the street: a woman with her twins hanging out, a man in a tight speedo showing his bulge, a disgusting feathery, leathery... thing from the pride parade, a man wearing a fursuit or whatever, etc.


I'm not particularly surprised to see this disgusting degeneracy here, obviously, especially since I assume you're all 90s/millennials. But ask yourself: do I really want to live in a world where everyone enacts his inappropriate fetishes in public? Do I really want to go out to the park with my children and have them exposed to all kinds of bizarre fetishes because everyone wants to "express themselves"? Do I want to walk with them past the guy in tight leather around his bulge, or some "transfox"or whatever barking in public with his little fox ears?

No.

It's clearly just a cry for attention, like your generation knows to do too well.

And don't even get me started on ********.

I don't really think they are analogous at all. I was looking for some other concession from you actually, but you didn't bite. In the 1930s, boys' rooms were supposed to be pink and girl's rooms were supposed to be blue. You also gave no general stance on gender roles.

Explain to me how dressing like a woman is a sick fetish please? A fully modest man in a nun suit, for example.

I think (as I said above) there is something to be said for public decency, but I don't see how a man wearing a non-revealing animal suit (or a dress) is that bad - don't sports teams have two of those (Falcons vs Colts or Broncos or Eagles for example) every Sunday 17 weeks a year? You have strong language and have made a judgment, no doubt, but you've only backed it up with an ad-hom at this point, as well as a dubious claim that it is a cry for attention.

For what it's worth, I try to dress mostly in basketball shirts and t-shirts, half of which say nothing and the rest of which reference either trivial things (Facebook, rpsls) or Chuck Norris or Thor.

I'm also curious as to what you think of those who change their genders. And why you seem to think tolerance is a vice, not a virtue.

Do you support forcing women to wear veils as well? Should people have almost no exposed skin? If not that, then what dress is and isn't okay? How do you draw a line?