Criticism Wanted (10/2/08, new request)

[metroid1117]

EDIT: I have boiled down the general advice to:
- More jabs
- More ground game
- More NAir and less FAir
- Mix up the approach
- Don't roll as much
- Punish at every opportunity possible

All posts have been enforcing those points so much that I feel it wouldn't be productive to ask for more criticism without playing for a longer time to implement these comments. Instead, I'd like to ask you guys to look through any match for any bad habits that my opponents exhibited that I did not take advantage of. Even if you don't do this, I'd like to thank all of you guys for your feedback; I'll make sure the time and effort you put into watching these videos won't go to waste .

metroid1117 (Ike) vs. Anonymous (ROB) - Win, 1-stock (wow, BAir stays out waaaaaaay too long)

metroid1117 (Ike) vs. Chunky
Match 1 vs. Ness - Win, 2-stock (lag played a part in this, as well as a gimp walk-off DAir)
Match 2 vs. Lucas - Win, 1-stock (lag played a part in this)
Match 3 vs. Lucas - Win, 1-stock (lag played a part in this)
Match 4 vs. Olimar - Loss, 1-stock (lesson = never use QD when your opponent is that close to the edge)

metroid1117 (Ike) vs. Nyjin (Gold Ike) (wow, these matches were fun)
Match 1 - Loss, 1-stock
Match 2 - Win, 2-stock
Match 3 - Loss, 2-stock (oh my, I got owned o_0)
Match 4 - Win, 2-stock
Match 5 - Loss, 1-stock (technically match 6; match 5 was not recorded)

Original Post:

I feel stupid for creating this thread so soon after I made an entertainment thread, but that was me being narcissistic about myself, my saved matches, and my new capturing device; my apologies.

Anyways, I obtained a video capturing device recently, so I recorded some matches and would like some feedback. Some things I'm looking for are mistakes that I made, habits I have, and/or habits that my opponents had that I didn't punish for. Even if you don't critique the matches, I hope you were at least amused/entertained by the matches.

Disclaimer: These are all Wi-Fi friendlies.

metroid1117 (Ike) vs. Anonymous (ROB) - Win, 1-stock (wow, BAir stays out waaaaaaay too long)

metroid1117 (Ike) vs. Chunky
Match 1 vs. Ness - Win, 2-stock (lag played a part in this, as well as a gimp walk-off DAir)
Match 2 vs. Lucas - Win, 1-stock (lag played a part in this)
Match 3 vs. Lucas - Win, 1-stock (lag played a part in this)
Match 4 vs. Olimar - Loss, 1-stock (lesson = never use QD when your opponent is that close to the edge)

metroid1117 (Ike) vs. Nyjin (Gold Ike) (wow, these matches were fun)
Match 1 - Loss, 1-stock
Match 2 - Win, 2-stock
Match 3 - Loss, 2-stock (oh my, I got owned o_0)
Match 4 - Win, 2-stock
Match 5 - Loss, 1-stock (technically match 6; match 5 was not recorded)

 

[Kinzer]

I won't flame you, I enjoy wifi being it my only way to get matches.

Anyway I don't want to say anything because I'm sure some better Ikes out there can tell you better than I can.

 

[metroid1117]

I won't flame you, I enjoy wifi being it my only way to get matches.

Anyway I don't want to say anything because I'm sure some better Ikes out there can tell you better than I can.

That was just a flame-shield against people like SCOTU who hate Wi-Fi so much that they want to ban it . I should probably get rid of that statement so that I don't look hostile >.>. But yeah, I am in the same boat as you; my competitive friends stuck to Melee and I play mostly Brawl now, but also Melee with them.

Any observation is greatly appreciated; I'm curious to hear your input.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Kinzer how can you not find matches? Isn't vegas full of tournaments at least it sounds like a city that would be with evo and mlg things in it. Yes I know mlg doesn't do brawl yet but It says something about the gaming community there which includes brawl.

Anyways I'll watch your videos tomorrow since I have crappy Internet right now

 

[Kinzer]

Kinzer how can you not find matches? Isn't vegas full of tournaments at least it sounds like a city that would be with evo and mlg things in it. Yes I know mlg doesn't do brawl yet but It says something about the gaming community there which includes brawl.

I'm 15 and I don't have my own car or driver's liceanse, also my parents work in the day.

Anyway if you want my feedback I guess I can look at your vids later.

 

[Kirk]

You must JAB MORE! I barely saw any jabbing in the few matches I watched (I'm lazy...I know xD) Jabs are SO vital to Ike's game it's not even funny...it's the up close pressure you need to keep in control of a match.

A general suggestion...change up your approach. You approached with Fair almost every single time. A minute or so into the match I could predict exactly what you were going to do next. Too much Fair for my taste. I'd like to see some more empty jumps to jabs/grabs, dash attack spacing, Nairs, etc.

That's all I got for now.

 

[•Col•]

Wow, your Ike sucks.

Spoiler

Lol, just kidding... But seriously, I'll check these videos out later and edit this post then... =P

 

[gsninja]

You should short hop more, which would really help. Also, I agree with what Kirk said, jab more and don't approach with FAir so much.

 

[Akashi]

The only thing I can suggest is to stop dodge-rolling so much, it ruins your spacing. OCCASIONALLY (key word: occasionally, you're far from the average Ike, Met) I'd see you dodge roll back... then run to exactly where you were standing.

 

[Kinzer]

Well I looked at all the videos (yes all of them, so what?) and I noticed a few things.

One: although already mentioned, where's the jabs? Jabs are so crucial to Ike, you would have to be crazy not to use them. You were instead using Fair to replace this void, you really should trade your usage of fairs and jabs. You can look at it this way if you will "jabs are for damage-racking, Fairs are for aerial spacing and kills." With that said, it's all the more reason you have to keep your fair fresh.

Two: Now I'm not one to point fingers just because on a Wiimote it's impossible to perform Up-tilt without either wasting a jump or doing Upsmash, but you are either not using your up-tilt enough or you are using Upsmash too much, maybe even a combination of the two. I saw so many whiffed Upsmashes where you could've done something else to use.

Finally, I'm probably going to sound crazy by saying this, but you need to be a bit more aggressive, I saw some chances in those videos where you just let the opponent go right byside you or do something of his own. Now I'm not going to look back for that one part in that bunch of videos, but I saw one instance where you were next in front of your opponent in the air and you missed the chance to Bair them. Maximize Ike to his fullest potential, he lives to punish your foes' mistakes.

You wanted my criticism, so I just said what I thought could use some work. Again maybe other people out there might have better advice.

 

[metroid1117]

Thanks a lot for your input guys, it's helped me realize a lot of my faults. Looking back, I realize that I know how to shut people out fairly well, but I don't maximize Ike's ground game at all, nor his ability to keep the pressure at close-range. I'll be sure to keep this advice in mind the next time I play, as well as being more aware of when I roll.

Finally, I'm probably going to sound crazy by saying this, but you need to be a bit more aggressive, I saw some chances in those videos where you just let the opponent go right byside you or do something of his own. Now I'm not going to look back for that one part in that bunch of videos, but I saw one instance where you were next in front of your opponent in the air and you missed the chance to Bair them. Maximize Ike to his fullest potential, he lives to punish your foes' mistakes.

You wanted my criticism, so I just said what I thought could use some work. Again maybe other people out there might have better advice.

Yup, that's stuff that I'm looking for :D. About the missed BAir opportunities: I call Johns for Wi-Fi lag and the occasional instances when the C-stick doesn't respond . Also, if you noticed the DTilts, they were all supposed to be C-sticked dash attacks =.= (I changed my C-stick to "Attack" so I can control my DAirs more efficiently).

Also, if I could trouble you guys with more things, can you find any habits that my opponent had but I didn't punish for?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Well I didn't look trough what everyone said but I noticed a few things.

When you where recovering with aether you aimed for your opponent and when it got shielded you didn't move back towards the ledge. Remember that you can move aether from side to side before it starts to come down.

You almost always double jump before you use an aerial. This shuts away a lot of your options and when you get hit out of this your pretty screwed.

Like a few other people said start jabbing. You hardly ever used them same with Nair I think all I saw was jump jump Fair.

 

[neon..?]

it looks like you dont really jab and on that rob match you quick drawed then quick drawed again after you die it got really predictible also too much fair approach.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Well I didn't look trough what everyone said but I noticed a few things.

When you where recovering with aether you aimed for your opponent and when it got shielded you didn't move back towards the ledge. Remember that you can move aether from side to side before it starts to come down.

You almost always double jump before you use an aerial. This shuts away a lot of your options and when you get hit out of this your pretty screwed.

Like a few other people said start jabbing. You hardly ever used them same with Nair I think all I saw was jump jump Fair.

This

And most of the hits you made were lucky shots

 

[Kinzer]

^ Yep.

Ike's isn't just some guy to bluntely swing Ragnell around, you gots to be precise.

 

[•Col•]

Ok, just watched the first 3-4 matches...

Just something I noticed... Don't always be afraid to use Quickdraw to recover... =P At :45 in the first ROB match, I saw it in slow motion... xD I saw the ROB starting to jump out... "Uuuusse Quuiiickdraaaaaaaaaaaaaw!" Instead you airdodge, and get a bair to the face. D:

Also, at 2:12, you could've quickdrawed onto the top platform to avoid the PK Thunder.

Meh, just stuff I noticed right away... o-o Lol, and like everyone else said... Needs moar jab. D:

 

[Jim Morrison]

you'll get sympathy from me cause it was better than most ike i've seen (excluding wifi) which is about 2

 

[PhoenixoKaZe]

use tilts more in conjuction with smashes for damage racking or spacing and to keep ur kill moves and f-airs fresh. J more jabs or jab-canceling helps like every else says already lol. Also make every hit count. cause u get punished for ur laggy whiffed smashes o-o XD ^^

 

[metroid1117]

Bumped; see the first post. Thanks for everyone who has commented on this thread and given me their feedback, I'll be sure to take these to heart.

 

[lcampoy8]

lol I played chunky before

and the other Ike doesn't really short hop either

 

[Kirk]

I'll be watching all the vids again, except the Ike dittos. Nothing personal...I just F***ing hate Ike dittos.

I'll edit this post before I go to sleep attempting to answer your question.

EDIT:

Anonymous #1: He ALWAYS came below the stage and up right to it while recovering...and you got him good for that. It's always good to know recovery patterns. His approaches...were almost all aerials...mainly Nair with an occasional Bair...shield and jab/grab as necessary for punishment. If he hit, he would usually followup with walking Ftilts and the like...but basically he always came straight at you with Nair...so use that to your advantage.

Chunky #1: Overall pretty well...there were a few times where you could have shielded some dash attacks and punished for them. Also learning to punish the PK attacks is key. There were times where you could have, but you flubbed a tech/airdodge to get there in time or got hit first. It's easy to see those coming and there's a lot of lag afterwards.

Chunky #2: Same deal here. You missed A LOT of punishes for PK attacks. Misspacing of a dash attack, slow reaction to blocking/dodging to name a few. I counted at least 5 times where you could have done something about it. It's harder to punish the PK Fires because he retreats them like he does...but there WERE times where you could attack and get in there before he recovered. Another note, Dsmash at the ledge was common...I use common because...even though he only did it twice...he killed you both times with it. First time is understandable...but you should expect it the next time...a simple drop down aether would have taken care of that.

Chunky #3: Yeah...his recovery was WAY too predictable for his own good...you missed A LOT of key moments there to hit him hard. He really liked to come from underneath the stage...which leaves a huge opening. You more so caught on as the match went on...which is good...but regardless you can't let all the moments pass by. His Upsmashes were somewhat scattered...which is a good thing for you...but unfortunately you were slow on the uptake to get in and punish most of the time. His B-sticking tricksies were also fun to watch But you could see...after he did a PK Fire you could pretty much expect a Magnet one next...just something to think about.

Chunky #4: Kind of goes without saying...cause it IS Olimar vs. Ike...he likes to grab A LOT. It tough as hell to get around it...but you just gotta know about it. Most of his damage was from grab followups. He basically saved his Usmash for the kill move...which is what Olimar should be doing anyhow. You used that to your advantage towards the end of your last stock so you knew about this...he got a little smash happy and you punished for it...he barely ever grabbed you and only went for the Usmash kill. Timing your invincibility at the edge so that he can't attack you off so he can tether later...but that's basic strategy.

I know...no one is perfect and we all make mistakes...I simply calls em as I sees em :D

 

[Kinzer]

You just haven't prepared yourself for Ike dittos Kirk.

 

[Kirk]

You just haven't prepared yourself for Ike dittos Kirk.

More like...I've played 7639874239874678632 Ike dittos in my time...and I don't take too kindly to them any longer >.>

Also edited previous post...at first glance that's what I could get.

 

[Kinzer]

You'll get no Sympathy from the mirror Ikes. (Yeah I'm just really bored and messing with the top of line Ikes.)