Creating the Ultimate Life Form: Project Shadow

[Foresight]

You don't have to rework all of the specials, but I would suggest making down-b a counter move that triggers a small Chaos Blast instead of trying to figure out Chaos Boost. It's gotta be easier to do than Chaos Boost, and would be more practical and easier to balance. Even if you could figure out a way to implement Chaos Boost properly, balancing it would be very difficult, if not impossible.

And for the record, I'm 23 and never really played Shadow the Hedgehog. The idea of guns in Sonic game was just laughable to me. I still own my original Sega genesis, and still have the cartridges of the good games in the Sonic the Hedgehog series. I was just throwing the idea of the guns in there for a laugh. Maybe you should add it as taunt, like how Ganon flashes his sword.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Wow this sounds amazing! The only thing I have to nitpick at is that Shadow is just as fast as Sonic, so making him slower isn't canon. Otherwise keep up the good work!

Actually, the relative speeds of Sonic and Shadow aren't quite agreed upon across the Sonic continuum. In SA2 they were the same speed, although that was necessary for gameplay elements (note that in that game Knuckles and Rouge handled the same for the same reasons, and they've certainly been very different in later games!) Sonic Battle claimed that Shadow was faster, while Sonic 2006 and Sonic Rivals held that Sonic was faster. (Information obtained from sonic.wikia.com) I've decided to stick with slower because I want Shadow to be a bit more of a 'moderate' character than Sonic was - Sonic's abnormally high speed and weak attack power kind of set him way apart from the rest of the Brawl cast in a way that I'm not too sure I like. Shadow will lean a bit more toward the 'power' side of the spectrum so that he can fit in a little better with the rest of the cast (although compared to everyone else, he'll still be very much a speed-and-agility character.)

I was just throwing the idea of the guns in there for a laugh. Maybe you should add it as taunt, like how Ganon flashes his sword.

Hmm...

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Go by canon. Black night isnt canon. 2006 never happened. Cant really say about Battle. Chronicles isnt canon either.

Only canon games is Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Battle 2, and Battle 2 would be better to go by as Heroes was mad wack and Shadow was LOLOHMYGOD

It's simply a discussion on how Chaos Spear has differed in the media, not how to implement it into this character. As even non-canon games simply exist within the Sonic media if not the Sonic story plotline (no matter how much we try to forget ShTH-Sonic 2006 existed), whether the game in question is canon or not is a moot point.

Any and every Sonic fan is currently on their way to your very location to smite you where you stand.

That includes me.

Seconded. Shadow having guns was quite possibly the (IMO!) stupidest thing to ever happen to his character...aside from his added on origin story in his self-titled game. Who needs guns when they have crazy DragonBall Z-esque powers and control the very fabric of time-space?

In the meantime... I'd like to make either his Down Smash or Side Smash into Chaos Magic (the Sonic Battle attack where he snaps his fingers), but I don't know what animation to use. So far, my best idea is his battering item smash attack charge for the charging period, and the Super Scope starting animation for the actual attack, which looks kind of like he's pointing at the ground for a moment (adding a darkness explosion effect of course). Anyone have anything better?

I've always imagined Chaos Upper as his fsmash (attack from Sonic battle where he backhands the opponent with a fist laced with Chaos energy), but Chaos Magic would be a nice second. Dsmash I could actually envision having the same animation as before but with different properties, something like Falcon's/Ganon's dsmashes. Rolling into a ball is still a part of Shadow's character (though much greater focus should be put on his Chaos attacks).

Maybe give him the spikesmash all the Sonic mains were afraid to give Sonic?

 

[Sora Master2.0]

Sorry to just add on to the choas spear thing but it was awesome. I loved it in SAB2. Would it be his B or >B? I think we should keep the >B...
For the actualy move, could you perhaps use...some kind of spakle effect and just add a hitbox to it? And for the vB, are you sure you want to do that? It sounds AMAZING but way over powered. Well if you do plan on doing it, you could go for a captain falcon type of thing where "insert effect here" goes around him. Kinda like the ^taunt for Falcon.

 

[GHNeko]

It's simply a discussion on how Chaos Spear has differed in the media, not how to implement it into this character. As even non-canon games simply exist within the Sonic media if not the Sonic story plotline (no matter how much we try to forget ShTH-Sonic 2006 existed), whether the game in question is canon or not is a moot point.

The thing is though, what I think, is that if you want to give Shadow the most...shadow-ish moveset. You should go by canon, as side games tend to carry artistic licences with the actual character and they gain/lose things that they would other wise never have in canon.

Also, Sonic 06 NEVER. HAPPENED. I know you played the game. You know what happened at the end.

It. NEVER. HAPPENED.

 

[OniTheWolf]

Yeah, I agree with another post here (I can't find it though >.<, and don't feel like looking back) Shadow's down special should be like a counter move that unleashes a small Chaos Blast. I like the Down Smash being Sonic Battle Shadow's attack where both of his hands are engulfed in Chaos Energy and he attacks people on both sides of him. I also like the Chaos magic for FSmash Idea. ALso, maybe his DAir should spike. Give him maybe a Wolf DAir animation?

 

[DarkDragoon]

Yeah, I agree with another post here (I can't find it though >.<, and don't feel like looking back) Shadow's down special should be like a counter move that unleashes a small Chaos Blast. I like the Down Smash being Sonic Battle Shadow's attack where both of his hands are engulfed in Chaos Energy and he attacks people on both sides of him. I also like the Chaos magic for FSmash Idea. ALso, maybe his DAir should spike. Give him maybe a Wolf DAir animation?

He means to say HeavyThrowAirLw or SmashThrowAirLw animation for the spike.

;O can't transfer animations between characters.
-DD

 

[OniTheWolf]

Uploading a YT video right now, hopw you don't mind if I use the paragraphs you wrote about his Specials?

 

[OniTheWolf]

He means to say HeavyThrowAirLw or SmashThrowAirLw animation for the spike.

;O can't transfer animations between characters.
-DD

Aww **** , well, can we still make his Dair spike? Maybe like at thhe beginning if it's directly released onto an opponent?

Alright, YT video is still being processed, so quality is kinda butchured, but here it is anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAZEiFDUd_0&fmt=18

 

[PsychoticDust]

Actually, the relative speeds of Sonic and Shadow aren't quite agreed upon across the Sonic continuum. In SA2 they were the same speed, although that was necessary for gameplay elements (note that in that game Knuckles and Rouge handled the same for the same reasons, and they've certainly been very different in later games!) Sonic Battle claimed that Shadow was faster, while Sonic 2006 and Sonic Rivals held that Sonic was faster. (Information obtained from sonic.wikia.com) I've decided to stick with slower because I want Shadow to be a bit more of a 'moderate' character than Sonic was - Sonic's abnormally high speed and weak attack power kind of set him way apart from the rest of the Brawl cast in a way that I'm not too sure I like. Shadow will lean a bit more toward the 'power' side of the spectrum so that he can fit in a little better with the rest of the cast (although compared to everyone else, he'll still be very much a speed-and-agility character.)

Yeah that's where I got my info from. I just think that Shadow is the same speed as Sonic, due to averaging out the differences in games. Sorry for nitpicking, it's just that I am a BIG Sonic fan and think that you have something amazing here! Getting to the point though, I think that you have a very good and well thought out set of points and I support your project even further! (The reason I joined SWF after 2 years of using the forums!)

 

[DarkDragoon]

Aww **** , well, can we still make his Dair spike? Maybe like at thhe beginning if it's directly released onto an opponent?

Alright, YT video is still being processed, so quality is kinda butchured, but here it is anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAZEiFDUd_0&fmt=18

Yea, of course.
Nice video, too.

The reason I joined SWF after 2 years of using the forums!

o____o;;
-DD

 

[Revven]

Aww **** , well, can we still make his Dair spike? Maybe like at thhe beginning if it's directly released onto an opponent?

Alright, YT video is still being processed, so quality is kinda butchured, but here it is anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAZEiFDUd_0&fmt=18

That Dthrow looks automatically broken. Please don't let that in the final version... it's stupid and makes kills way too easy (SDs ftw lol). Uthrow shouldn't have the same SFX as the old one. Chaos Spear looks kinda broke of an edgeguard... makes things a bit ridiculous since it reaches that far. IMO, it shouldn't paralyze and it shouldn't have such long reach (what with that gigantic hitbox it has it makes chasing offstage pointless). You should also consider changing the KB of moves you aren't planning on changing (i.e his Bthrow and Fthrow) to at least make him a legit clone of Sonic.

Just some thoughts on watching the video.

 

[money113]

Aww **** , well, can we still make his Dair spike? Maybe like at thhe beginning if it's directly released onto an opponent?

Alright, YT video is still being processed, so quality is kinda butchured, but here it is anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAZEiFDUd_0&fmt=18

Ok, so quote from my brother, IndigoFenix, who's computer crashed and is therefore not able to post in his name:

"Thanks, but please take that off ASAP - 99% of that version is glitchy and/or likely to change and/or already changed, and I don't want people to become disinterested before I have a decent version ready. I'll get a better one as soon as I can, but please get rid of that video, OK? I'll keep you in mind when I'm ready for one to be made."

 

[Rykoshet]

That Dthrow looks automatically broken. Please don't let that in the final version... it's stupid and makes kills way too easy (SDs ftw lol). Uthrow shouldn't have the same SFX as the old one. Chaos Spear looks kinda broke of an edgeguard... makes things a bit ridiculous since it reaches that far. IMO, it shouldn't paralyze and it shouldn't have such long reach (what with that gigantic hitbox it has it makes chasing offstage pointless). You should also consider changing the KB of moves you aren't planning on changing (i.e his Bthrow and Fthrow) to at least make him a legit clone of Sonic.

Just some thoughts on watching the video.

Seconding these comments.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's basically accepted everywhere that Shadow is as fast as Sonic, or like .00001 MPH slower. He tends to have slower game play because they want to make his parts more unique (vehicles and guns and a lot more enemies oh my!), but when he actually races Sonic like in SA2, they are equals. If you want slower, look at Silver. lol.

IMO, a few things should be basically the same as Sonic, just with different knockback/%damage/hitboxes/starting and cooldown time. Like Maybe Nair, Bair, Bthrow and Usmash for example. Enough to nod towards their similarities in SA2.

I agree about Dthrow. That needs fixing. Is it possible to make it like dropping the opponent to the ground (Sonic's original Dthrow) and then jumping into the air and landing with Sonic's Dair? That would be different, but more Shadow like. And then maybe Sonic's Fsmash for Fthrow.

As for Chaos Magic.....use Sonic's Beam Sword smash animation and make it a Fsmash? And then make the Dsmash the end of Sonic's Utaunt (the part where he has a finger pointed each direction) and have two small blasts of chaos explosion stuff occur one on each side? Not sure which Chaos Power you could call it....maybe Chaos Nightmare?


Ah, so may ideas. Makes me wish I knew how to do things like this. lol.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

As a small aside, please keep the original animation of Sonic's Dair on Shadow.

That move was originally Shadow's anyway (the Shadow Eagle/Rocket from Sonic Battle. I don't know how Sonic ended up with it).

 

[Raziek]

This looks very promising, but I have to agree with tweaking the down-throw. That kind of "attach" mechanic just won't work. I also have a few questions regarding his recovery. Is he invincible during it? If he is, it might but a little OP> I'd suggest making him invisible but attackable, and MAYBE leaving some sort of trail or aura to indicate where he's going. Other than that, looks pretty cool.

Excellent Job.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

As a small aside, please keep the original animation of Sonic's Dair on Shadow.

That move was originally Shadow's anyway (the Shadow Eagle/Rocket from Sonic Battle. I don't know how Sonic ended up with it).

No, Shadow's was when he spun around and did something similar. Sonic had that exact same animation for an attack in Sonic Battle, but without the force flying down to earth. Sonic Rocket IIRC, I'd have to go grab my game to be sure which one it was.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I seem to remember Sonic's air/chase attack being the axe kick rather than a kick that stall'n'falls like Shadow Eagle/Rocket (though I do remember the fancy twirl he does before he falls...but being Shadow, I guess he just wanted to make the ultimate stall'n'fall by rising up in the air slightly before falling). I'll double check again though, as I admittedly played very little Sonic in that game.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Sonic had an axe kick, and he also had his Dair animation for a different air attack. I have most of the Sonic Battle Cards on my file. I'll check once I stop being lazy. >_>

EDIT:

Sonic Air Attack: Sonic Rocket AKA Dair Animation, card #12. I have 7 of them.
Sonic Aim Attack: Sonic Eagle AKA Axe Kick, card # 013, I have 1 of them.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Ok, my computer's back up again (for the time being - it's kind of old and due to die any day now). Since I don't think people read my brother's post:

First: Take off that video NOW - everything about that version is going to be changed. The down-throw sticking was an UNINTENDED GLITCH and will not be retained (the latest playable version is on the front page, it is actually called 'PriorShadow', since I kept it as the last playable version so that I could revert back if I seriously messed up the version that I'm working on now. The version called 'Shadow' is my original, glitch-filled version. A bit confusing, I know...)

I might be done with some aspects of the next version soon, which should be a bit better graphically, at least. Up-B is incomplete, though, and causes some weird problems if you try to use it.

 

[OniTheWolf]

Ok, my computer's back up again (for the time being - it's kind of old and due to die any day now). Since I don't think people read my brother's post:

First: Take off that video NOW - everything about that version is going to be changed. The down-throw sticking was an UNINTENDED GLITCH and will not be retained (the latest playable version is on the front page, it is actually called 'PriorShadow', since I kept it as the last playable version so that I could revert back if I seriously messed up the version that I'm working on now. The version called 'Shadow' is my original, glitch-filled version. A bit confusing, I know...)

I might be done with some aspects of the next version soon, which should be a bit better graphically, at least. Up-B is incomplete, though, and causes some weird problems if you try to use it.

Alright, got rid of it. Can't wait to see your next playable version.

@ Falco,Rykoshet, and others: Once the Newer Version is up, I'll make a newer video for Project Shadow. Apparently. the DThrow was an unintended glitch.


I think Chaos Spear should still stun, but for less time, and if you can, make it somewhat like R.O.B's B- can be use excessively, but not spammed. Chaos Spear Gimping FTW!

 

[kataklysm336]

I have noticed alot of threads like this. When each "new" character is finally finished will they be selectable on the CSS or will they replace a current character? I noticed that they had created new squares for all the pokemon, sheik, and ZSS, and didn't know if that was possible for new characters, while still retaining the character they are made from.

 

[Chis]

It's basically accepted everywhere that Shadow is as fast as Sonic, or like .00001 MPH slower. He tends to have slower game play because they want to make his parts more unique (vehicles and guns and a lot more enemies oh my!), but when he actually races Sonic like in SA2, they are equals. If you want slower, look at Silver. lol.

I second this. Looks good so far :D

 

[kciD]

So...if this works well (which I hope it does, Shadow would be really fun to play), and we figure out how to add characters to the select screen instead of having to replace them, would Shadow possibly be an official Brawl+ character?

If so, how many "outside" characters that were not in Melee will be allowed?

I hope this isn't too off-topic. I will definitely test out Shadow, and hope he's better than Sonic. I don't like Sonic too much, mostly with the B moves. I'll still try Shadow, though. I can't wait until the next playable release!

 

[Thunderhorse+]

So...if this works well (which I hope it does, Shadow would be really fun to play), and we figure out how to add characters to the select screen instead of having to replace them, would Shadow possibly be an official Brawl+ character?

If so, how many "outside" characters that were not in Melee will be allowed?

Probably none. I don't think any of the Melee characters will make it officially into Brawl+ either (including Roy). They'll probably just be fun things people can mess around with like WDing and manual L-canceling. Allowing even one character that's not part of the original Brawl cast would open a huge can of worms as to who can and who can't be allowed.

As much as I would love to see Shadow as an official Brawl+ character, there is very little chance of that ever happening.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Probably none. I don't think any of the Melee characters will make it officially into Brawl+ either (including Roy). They'll probably just be fun things people can mess around with like WDing and manual L-canceling. Allowing even one character that's not part of the original Brawl cast would open a huge can of worms as to who can and who can't be allowed.

As much as I would love to see Shadow as an official Brawl+ character, there is very little chance of that ever happening.

Pft. The WBR just needs to exercise their pimp hand and say "NO", once people start complaining about certain ones being added as opposed to others.
-DD

 

[Sora Master2.0]

Pft. The WBR just needs to exercise their pimp hand and say "NO", once people start complaining about certain ones being added as opposed to others.
-DD

This

I think the melee characters have a pretty good chance. People like...Ryu from Street Fighter might be alittle ridiculous, but Shadow sounds reasonable.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Guys I want Shadow in Brawl+ as much as you do (probably moreso ), but let's face the facts: the WBR doesn't even want to add a hitbox to an animation that already exists (Lucas' zair).

What makes you think they're inclined to add in a whole new character?

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Guys I want Shadow in Brawl+ as much as you do (probably moreso ), but let's face the facts: the WBR doesn't even want to add a hitbox to an animation that already exists (Lucas' zair).

What makes you think they're inclined to add in a whole new character?

They actually do want to add in characters. That's why Almas is working on the character engine to add new characters to replace certain textures.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

They actually do want to add in characters. That's why Almas is working on the character engine to add new characters to replace certain textures.

just because almas is working on that doesn't mean the backroom would so easily let a new character in.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

just because almas is working on that doesn't mean the backroom would so easily let a new character in.

It has been clear that the WBR has already intended to add new characters into Brawl+.

And it won't easaily be let in. The WBR will probably take the most popular characters and/or balanced (i.e. Roy) into Brawl+.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Neko get in here and back me up. Help a brotha out .

 

[IndigoFenix]

Actually, one of the reasons why I picked Shadow is because (aside from the obvious) you tend to see very few Sonics on Wi-fi matches, so even if they don't make him official he still might be a popular download.

In any event, does anyone know a command that moves the character in mid-air depending on which direction on the control stick you press? I've been pulling apart and porting over Zelda/Sheik/Meta Knight teleport moves, as well as space furries/Lucario/Pikachu's Up-B over and over and splicing them together in various different ways, but no luck... I've got the invisibility down, but I can't figure out how to control the motion. Can anyone give some help here?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

It has been clear that the WBR has already intended to add new characters into Brawl+.

And it won't easaily be let in. The WBR will probably take the most popular characters and/or balanced (i.e. Roy) into Brawl+.

just because some backroom people are interested/involved with making characters doesn't mean that they're going to add them to brawl+. do you realize the ramifications behind adding a new character to a game? for fun, definitely, but adding a new character would take a lot of discussing. and who's to say the version of roy that's being worked on is the one that should be let in? who's to say xxxxx's version isn't better? don't be ridiculous. adding new characters to a game that's going to be played around the country for money and at tourneys would require A LOT of foresight, planning and people who know what they're doing.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Actually, one of the reasons why I picked Shadow is because (aside from the obvious) you tend to see very few Sonics on Wi-fi matches, so even if they don't make him official he still might be a popular download.

In any event, does anyone know a command that moves the character in mid-air depending on which direction on the control stick you press? I've been pulling apart and porting over Zelda/Sheik/Meta Knight teleport moves, as well as space furries/Lucario/Pikachu's Up-B over and over and splicing them together in various different ways, but no luck... I've got the invisibility down, but I can't figure out how to control the motion. Can anyone give some help here?

Well...what I know about Lucario's anyways...and its probably true for Furry Fire and stuff...but they have a start up, travel, and end animation[plus a few more random "bounce" subactions and stuff]...and yea...I didn't look through your .pac to see how that is set up for you, but if you rip Lucario's stuff and apply it to the right spots...then you should be all set.

It isn't animation specific because I did manage to swap out animations for the travel. After I release the current Mewtwo build I'll see if I can make Shadow move.

A LOT of foresight, planning and people who know what they're doing.

>__> That...is what the WBR is...isn't it?
-DD

 

[DarkDragoon]

Dangit doubleposts.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

just because some backroom people are interested/involved with making characters doesn't mean that they're going to add them to brawl+. do you realize the ramifications behind adding a new character to a game? for fun, definitely, but adding a new character would take a lot of discussing. and who's to say the version of roy that's being worked on is the one that should be let in? who's to say xxxxx's version isn't better? don't be ridiculous. adding new characters to a game that's going to be played around the country for money and at tourneys would require A LOT of foresight, planning and people who know what they're doing.

Exactly. And the WBR will heavily test these new characters before even considering to add them into Brawl+.

I know how much testing and balancing will be needed, but it is happening. I am well aware how the slightest unbalanced/unfair character will change Brawl+.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Exactly. And the WBR will heavily test these new characters before even considering to add them into Brawl+.

I know how much testing and balancing will be needed, but it is happening. I am well aware how the slightest unbalanced/unfair character will change Brawl+.

Also, the creator has to be willing to hand over their character TO Brawl+ for the WBR to balance and rebalance the stats as they see fit for future balancing endeavors.
-DD

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Also, the creator has to be willing to hand over their character TO Brawl+ for the WBR to balance and rebalance the stats as they see fit for future balancing endeavors.
-DD

Of course. Who wouldn't want to let the WBR use a character that he/she made?