Could someone help me, please?

[mountain_tiger]

OK, so here's the deal. I can't kill with Sheik. At all. I know that Sheik has problems killing, but I literally cannot kill my opponent below 170%. Besides USmash, what other decent kill moves does Sheik possess?

 

[East]

The vanish, but that's high risk, high reward. You always have the option of turning into Zelda, or unstaling your nair so you can ftilt and then catch an opponent with the beginning of it which has greater damage and knockback. Other than that, tough break : \

Oh yeah, and gimping.

P.S. This question probably should be posted in the Q&A section.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Thanks, I'll give them a try. Though I'm not so sure about turning into Zelda. I mean, if you don't do it at the right time, you're pretty much asking for a fully charged smash to the face. I guess the best option would be to work on my edgeguarding then...

 

[SinkingHigher]

If it's taking you that long to land a kill move either your approach is dreadful or you're spamming all the kill moves.

Usmash
Fsmash
Dsmash
n-air
b-air
f-air
u-air
Vanish.

These are all the likely kill moves.

Vanish is not recommended. Easily punished, and it's not even the most powerful move, so the risk, imo, isn't worth it. If you take the time to practice, though, it becomes easy to bait a move and then Vanish KO.

If the opponent is offstage, a good f-air should KO. If they're near the edge of the stage, sweetspot b/n air will do it, but if you've staled them, it's not likely.

If they're in the air a sweetspot u-air should kill around 100%

If you know how to DACUS, that's a good surprise move.
Your best bet is decayed f-tilt to U-smash tipper. This is a guaranteed KO around 80 on lighter characters, like MK.

Alternatively, if the opponent is heavy, they get more out of being able to DI for the most part, and it's hard to star KO them, so edgeguarding is what you want to do here. Use a GTFO move like Dsmash to get them off the stage. Aerial or grounded needles will force recovery. From here you can intercept with an n-air or f-air, or if they're lower down or have a weak recovery, use the Chain.

Chainguarding is a technique where you perform the chain lock (see the guide) with the chain at least half way over the edge. Note that some characters can get through this, but most will take a lot of damage trying to get through it anyway.

If indeed you are spamming the kill moves, I recommend spamming these if you're going to spam anything. (I use the word spam lightly, simply to indicate that the move has decayed quite a bit. I don't recommend you use one or two moves only. This will get you killed.)

f-air
needles
chain b-airs (good for spacing and approach)
f-tilt (if you're a fan of the decay f-tilt > Tipper)

Save your Usmash, Dsmash, and at least one of the powerful aerials.

 

[Zankoku]

I have absolutely no qualms about waiting it out until my 3-decayed dsmash KOs G&W at 212%, really. : P

But yeah, if you actually want to KO at a decent %, short of good edgeguarding, you're stuck comboing into usmash with ftilt or transforming to Zelda.

 

[legion598]

Usmash, Dsmash, Bair off stage, Nair off stage, and Uair. But her best killing option in my opinion is DACUS and if u learn to DACUS it nearly takes away her disadvantage of weak kill moves, and its bad ***

tech chase with DACUS
dragon pawnch with DACUS
win with DACUS


AND NEVER USE ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chainmaillekid]

Vanish is probably my number 1 KO method. I am a bit excessive with vanish though...

In a 3 stock match, It is typical to have one of my KO's be from vanish.

And while it IS punishable, I think sinking higher eggagerates.

My vanish occasionally gets punished, But not any more frequently than anything else I do, Perhaps even less frequently.

After vanish, Gimping accounts for most of my KO's, its deffinitly more legit than vanish. But gimping can be risky as well. A ton of my deaths come from Lag gimping suicides.

 

[Lythium]

Don't decay your smashes. If you can gimp a character, do it up. That's how I get KOs.

But her best killing option in my opinion is DACUS and if u learn to DACUS it nearly takes away her disadvantage of weak kill moves, and its bad ***

tech chase with DACUS
dragon pawnch with DACUS
win with DACUS


AND NEVER USE ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!

I never use DACUS. It's not necessary for a win. Also, excluding Zelda as a kill option is personal choice, but I wouldn't rule it out. If you're stuck, Zelda works wonders.

 

[Zankoku]

dragon pawnch with DACUS

This doesn't even begin to make sense.

 

[rathy Aro]

Also, excluding DACUS as a kill option is personal choice, but I wouldn't rule it out. If you're stuck, DACUS works wonders.

fixed.

@legion: How is DACUS a better kill move than upsmash? Do you not see how that makes no sense.
And DACUS is not the cure to sheik's killing problem (helps though). ftilt->upsmash is.

@OP: Read the Q&A

ftilt to usmash is the most effective followed by switching to zelda. After that an offstage bair or fair will probably do it. After that a dsmash then usmash then fsmash in terms of reliability.

maybe I'm a bad sheik, but I don't think you can realistically gimp consistently in a majority of sheik's matchups.

edit: nair is also a reliable kill move offstage. less reliable/gimicky ways to kill are using vanish and vanish gliding and DACUS (this can actually be effective IF AND ONLY IF you are good at using it).

 

[legion598]

^DACUS is better then U smash in the sense that it has more range and lands the sweet spot at a higher consistency due to stretching the hit box during the sliding animation


ankoku: I use DACUS as a long range anti-air against empty short hops on characters like marth jiggz and G&W and although it wont outprioritize their attack alot of the time it will likely surprise them if u do it at the right time

 

[SinkingHigher]

And while it IS punishable, I think sinking higher eggagerates.

Firstly, eggagerates. Rofl. (Not picking on your spelling, it's just a funny word)

Secondly, iirc I punished your Vanishes pretty well when we last played. I might be confusing you with someone else, but play someone like DM or Tristan and TRY to land on the floor after using vanish without getting hit.

I'm pro-Sheik and all, but her recovery is quite dreadful. MK knows this.

Legion, with all due respect, Ankoku has a lot more experience. DACUS might work well on WiFi and for the first few matches, but it's easy to predict.

The entire hitbox slides, not necessarily just the tipper. Unless you GRUST or something, it's more than likely you'll connect with the side hits. I'm not saying DACUS is a bad move by any means. It can be extremely useful, but Sheik has good set ups. DACUS is one of a few.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

If you're staling your Kill moves, then refresh your moves with double jab -> grab and pummel. Granted, Sheik's pummel sucks, so you won't be getting many hits in, but every little bit helps to refresh your moves, especially since Sheik has low killing power if her moves aren't at its best.

Otherwise, if you're very insistent on using your staled moves, then alternate what you are using instead of just spamming one or two moves, use all the options you have.

If all else fails, switch to Zelda.

 

[rathy Aro]

^DACUS is better then U smash in the sense that it has more range and lands the sweet spot at a higher consistency due to stretching the hit box during the sliding animation


ankoku: I use DACUS as a long range anti-air against empty short hops on characters like marth jiggz and G&W and although it wont outprioritize their attack alot of the time it will likely surprise them if u do it at the right time

>.>up smash=dacus

Firstly, eggagerates. Rofl. (Not picking on your spelling, it's just a funny word)

Secondly, iirc I punished your Vanishes pretty well when we last played. I might be confusing you with someone else, but play someone like DM or Tristan and TRY to land on the floor after using vanish without getting hit.

I'm pro-Sheik and all, but her recovery is quite dreadful. MK knows this.

Legion, with all due respect, Ankoku has a lot more experience. DACUS might work well on WiFi and for the first few matches, but it's easy to predict.

The entire hitbox slides, not necessarily just the tipper. Unless you GRUST or something, it's more than likely you'll connect with the side hits. I'm not saying DACUS is a bad move by any means. It can be extremely useful, but Sheik has good set ups. DACUS is one of a few.

If people are predicting your DACUS you're probably doing it wrong. Should be used as long range punishment (needles do this too, but they don't kill) or you can space yourself by walking away and then DACUS to punish whatever your opponent is doing. If you're in lag of an airdodge or landing lag or aerial lag you can't exactly do anything. And 13 frames is pretty quick for the distance your traveling to catch your opponent off guard even if you're familiar with the tech (assuming you don't spam it).

edit: I just thought of this. Instead of walking away to DACUS what about true pivot to DACUS as it would be faster and look insanely sexy.

 

[East]

dragon pawnch with DACUS

I tried it... I got no invincibility frames and I couldn't wake up with it >: (

 

[Canvasofgrey]

edit: I just thought of this. Instead of walking away to DACUS what about true pivot to DACUS as it would be faster and look insanely sexy.

I imagine that's really hard to set up since you basically have to reset from a dash to true pivot to another dash and DACUS.

 

[chainmaillekid]

Firstly, eggagerates. Rofl. (Not picking on your spelling, it's just a funny word)

Secondly, iirc I punished your Vanishes pretty well when we last played. I might be confusing you with someone else, but play someone like DM or Tristan and TRY to land on the floor after using vanish without getting hit.

Last time I played you, You did punish my vanish Really good once.
I did a gliding vanish into your falcons Forward B.
Give or take a few frames, and I would have KO'd you, but instead I got spiked XD

Anyway, I watched one of the replays and counted how many times I used vanish offensivly, how many times you were able to punish it, and how many times it hit.
But I forget what the numbers were...

I'll go check

[edit]
My matches with you are old enough that I must have deleated them D:

But I did look at all my other recent replays I have aginst people and I took the data from that.

On average I use vanish as an offensive attack 2.6 times in a standard 3 stock match.

My vanishes Hit 40% of the time.
My vanishes result in a KO 26% of the time.

And my vanish is punished 13% of the time.


In the match I played aginst your falcon, I think I used vanish 10 times, and you punished it 3 times. I cant remember how many times it hit though...


Also note, The people I play aginst are better than myself. Im not playing Noobs and getting vanish KO's and feeling all special for it, Im playing good people.

 

[<π]

vanish is not an awesome kill move, it's knock back angle hurts it's effectiveness a lot. nair suffers from similar problems.

Dacus is an upsmash

ftilt->usmash is good.
forcing dodges is good and finishing with nair.

The more I play sheik the more I realize zelda is important for kils after sheik's ftilt->usmash zone is over pretty much any of zelda's attacks will kill. usmash being a highlight move.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Last time I played you, You did punish my vanish Really good once.
I did a gliding vanish into your falcons Forward B.
Give or take a few frames, and I would have KO'd you, but instead I got spiked XD

Anyway, I watched one of the replays and counted how many times I used vanish offensivly, how many times you were able to punish it, and how many times it hit.
But I forget what the numbers were...

I'll go check

[edit]
My matches with you are old enough that I must have deleated them D:

But I did look at all my other recent replays I have aginst people and I took the data from that.

On average I use vanish as an offensive attack 2.6 times in a standard 3 stock match.

My vanishes Hit 40% of the time.
My vanishes result in a KO 26% of the time.

And my vanish is punished 13% of the time.


In the match I played aginst your falcon, I think I used vanish 10 times, and you punished it 3 times. I cant remember how many times it hit though...


Also note, The people I play aginst are better than myself. Im not playing Noobs and getting vanish KO's and feeling all special for it, Im playing good people.

Not to make johns, but Falcon is just a fun character. I don't main or second him. Plus it was wifi. People better than me (which there are a lot of) will most likely punish you EVERY time.

Play DM if he's willing and you'll see what I mean.

 

[chainmaillekid]

Not to make johns, but Falcon is just a fun character. I don't main or second him. Plus it was wifi. People better than me (which there are a lot of) will most likely punish you EVERY time.

Play DM if he's willing and you'll see what I mean.

Falcon being just a 'fun character' pretty much goes without saying.

And no way anybody could punish vanish Every time, perhaps most of the time... but not every time, Unless I was just spamming it or something.

Vanish isn't always punishable.

And who is DM?

 

[Zankoku]

When you use Vanish in a way that isn't punishable, you're committing yourself to an action that completely gives up the advantage and resets the situation to neutral if you miss.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Vanish itself isn't a bad move. In fact, I think Vanish is very very good.

It's just the situation and the position you place yourself in after Vanish.... Well, that's when you're screwed over.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

so whats the FAQ sheik thread for.... ?

 

[<π]

so whats the FAQ sheik thread for.... ?

Questions like.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

like this one right?

well im trying the true pivot with dacus.

and its weird when i true pivot . i buffer a dacus and it dacus's the opposite way.

discussions? or idea to use this .

 

[Zankoku]

If you're gonna derail this thread which I only kept open 'cause people were discussing in it already, I may as well close it.