Corrin in 1.1.5

[Avokha]

Are there people who use male Corrin? I don't think they exist. I suppose it's possible, but it's basically impossible.

Hey guys, male Corrin he-
(stops, realizes I will likely be put to death for playing male Corrin)
... Later people

 

[Astellius]

And out of curiosity, why the hate on male Corrin?

He is evil, and must be destroyed. That is all. Everyone who plays male Corrin is evil by association, and they must be destroyed as well. Especially this guy:

Hey guys, male Corrin he-
(stops, realizes I will likely be put to death for playing male Corrin)
... Later people

Such is dictated by the logic of the world.

 

[Banjodorf]

Is corrin a bad character now? :/

No? All that changed were percentages and minor speed reductions (and when I say minor I mean virtually unnoticeable) Counter isn't as reliable at killing (who uses Counters that aren't Witch Time in competitive play anyway?)

All of Corrin's tools still exist and it's not like she/he gained any landing lag. Corrin's probably going to be in about the same spot as before, honestly. Low-High-ish.

Though it's funny to see everyone going "CORRIN'S A DEAD CHARACTER NOW THANKS SAKURAI" and I'm just like are you serious?

TL;DR: Don't drop Corrin, she's still good.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He is evil, and must be destroyed. That is all. Everyone who plays male Corrin is evil by association, and they must be destroyed as well.

Of course you realize, this means war. Male Corrins have the right to be free too.

 

[WondrousMoose]

also just sayin', using lines as a reason is a pretty weak one since lines are equally bad

"You ready for this?"
"You ready for this?"
"You ready for this?"
"You ready for this?"

 

[Astellius]

Of course you realize, this means war. Male Corrins have the right to be free too.

Yes, they have the right to be free too. Free to be destroyed. To war! Let's do this! *turns into a dragon*

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yes, they have the right to be free too. Free to be destroyed. To war! Let's do this! *turns into a dragon*

The male Corrins shall put an end to this corruption! Male Corrin = Hoshido; Female Corrin = Nohr.

 

[Banjodorf]

The male Corrins shall put an end to this corruption! Male Corrin = Hoshido; Female Corrin = Nohr.

Obviously. Nohr master race.

Nohrians do what Hoshidon't.

 

[ThePuffDaddy]

I usually opt for the male versions of characters, but corrin is an exception . I just love her too much

 

[Ryochi]

No? All that changed were percentages and minor speed reductions (and when I say minor I mean virtually unnoticeable) Counter isn't as reliable at killing (who uses Counters that aren't Witch Time in competitive play anyway?)

All of Corrin's tools still exist and it's not like she/he gained any landing lag. Corrin's probably going to be in about the same spot as before, honestly. Low-High-ish.

Though it's funny to see everyone going "CORRIN'S A DEAD CHARACTER NOW THANKS SAKURAI" and I'm just like are you serious?

TL;DR: Don't drop Corrin, she's still good.

Thank goodness I'm not the only one that sees how much overreacting is going on.

Some of these nerfs she outright deserved and from what I'm hearing she got a slight buff too thanks to the damage nerfs. Why people are acting like she's garbage when these nerfs don't even look that significant (besides Counter and Uair) just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Fex13]

corrin is complete garbage now. cant even describe how bad that patch was for corrin. she cant even kill people at 10% with counter anymore. i mean, come on. what does she have left now?

 

[WondrousMoose]

corrin is complete garbage now. cant even describe how bad that patch was for corrin. she cant even kill people at 10% with counter anymore. i mean, come on. what does she have left now?

A nice figure.

 

[LordShade67]

Though it's funny to see everyone going "CORRIN'S A DEAD CHARACTER NOW THANKS SAKURAI" and I'm just like are you serious?

I WAS like this....before I labbed them again.

corrin is complete garbage now. cant even describe how bad that patch was for corrin. she cant even kill people at 10% with counter anymore. i mean, come on. what does she have left now?

Please tell me this isn't....serious. It's still a tool in Corrin's back pocket(if they even have them. Friggin' dragon armor.) for disadvantage, it's just killing later now. That's it.

 

[Banjodorf]

corrin is complete garbage now. cant even describe how bad that patch was for corrin. she cant even kill people at 10% with counter anymore. i mean, come on. what does she have left now?

**** YOU NAMDAI. Now I have to fish for kills at 30%! 30! ****ING! PERCENT!

LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE

Please tell me this isn't....serious. It's still a tool in Corrin's back pocket(if they even have them. Friggin' dragon armor.) for disadvantage, it's just killing later now. That's it.

I guarantee they're being sarcastic.

 

[Astellius]

The male Corrins shall put an end to this corruption! Male Corrin = Hoshido; Female Corrin = Nohr.

You... you... Hoshidan filth! Choosing to betray the family who loved and raised you for the one you don't remember at all except that they popped you out of a uterus! Unforgivable! *dons black Nohrian armor* Though we Nohrians walk the path of darkness, we know which side is truly evil...! Prepare for our conquest!

 

[MacSmitty]

*Uses Male Corrin
Well Male Corrin users, I guess we've got trouble with the female Corrin users.

 

[Arrei]

"IIII WIIN!"

That's the reason I don't ever use male Corrin. I can't stop thinking of CDi Link when he says that.

 

[Hero_2_All]

That's the reason I don't ever use male Corrin. I can't stop thinking of CDi Link when he says that.

well i mean male's I win, and female's GOOD reference the c Di's soooo thats the reason.

 

[Banjodorf]

That's the reason I don't ever use male Corrin. I can't stop thinking of CDi Link when he says that.

And FemCorrin says "GOOD!" exactly like CDi Zelda. I hope Treehouse did this intentionally.

 

[Arrei]

Perhaps so, but GOOD was hilarious in its psychopathy and "I WON" was... not.

 

[Zephil]

lol this thread have evolved from Patch 1.1.5. to a debate between waifu and husbando

While I am enjoying it, I think we should keep the debate in another thread.

The running speed nerf is annoying but is not like Corrin was fast anyways. The good thing is that thanks to our spacing we are not forced to run so much as we cover much more space than most chars.

 

[Banjodorf]

Perhaps so, but GOOD was hilarious in its psychopathy and "I WON" was... not.

I dunno, I thought the way Cam Clarke read it was pretty funny. There's so much emphasis, and in a way that's not bad, just amusing.

The running speed nerf is annoying but is not like Corrin was fast anyways. The good thing is that thanks to our spacing we are not forced to run so much as we cover much more space than most chars.

I'm a bit annoyed that they'd make such a minor change, but as you said it's not like we relied on our run speed before. And airspeed didn't change at all, so we didn't lose much.

It's not like our Fsmash lost any range, either.

 

[LordShade67]

The running speed nerf is annoying but is not like Corrin was fast anyways. The good thing is that thanks to our spacing we are not forced to run so much as we cover much more space than most chars.

This is pretty much how I felt even in 1.1.4 after a while. Our ground mobility is not that big a deal when we have a solid Foxtrot, one of,if not the fastest Shield Dash in the game, and giant hitboxes on alot of our attacks.

 

[Hyjacked]

I'm just sitting here alternating between Lord and Lady Corrin... Nobody mind me >>

 

[Shiminuki]

Based on this, Corrin's Uair has slightly more knockback growth.

KBG: 94 -- > 99

Thought I'd leave this here.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm just sitting here alternating between Lord and Lady Corrin... Nobody mind me >>

...I also do this. Blue/Green MCorrin is a pretty sick palette, and pink and black FCorrin are just as good if not the best. And the defaults are nothing to sneeze at. Love their design in general.

Thought I'd leave this here.

Get this out of here. Corrin is completely unplayable now. We can't have facts getting in the way of reactionism!

 

[Planty]

Can we organize some sort of Corrin boards tournament of female vs male Corrin users?

On topic, for some reason I don't think that Uair knockback was changed. D-tilt -> Uair kills at the same % as 1.1.4 if I'm remembering correctly. Does somebody know at what % Uair killed from the ground last patch so I could test it this patch?

EDIT: so somebody posted while I was typing this that Uair has higher KBG (94 -> 99) which explains my confusion with kill %.

 

[skaterat5000]

have they been giving anyone else issue after the patch? his damage nerfs i could understand but he feels way too slow now in my opinion

 

[Skitrel]

Snip

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[Read back in the thread or these quotes would be absurd]

Wow looks like I enflamed some optimistic pssions.

The thing is guys. No one is being objective here. There's a lot of positive emotional responses and no real look at the negatives.

On combos: Being able to combo at a higher percent is not a particularly good thing unless the combo leads to a kill. The changes actually stopped that, thus a nerf.

Being able to do combos we could already do slightly easier isn't an improvement at the competitive level, everyone was already getting the combos we knew just fine.

We've lost kill confirm combos. Uair is nowhere near as good at killing anymore and can not kill from fair>uair or nair>uair at ground level unlike pre-patch. We've also lost dtilt>uair kills at the 90-100% range, it doesn't kill and stops comboing after this percent.

Unless you can show me a new combo that we've gained that couldn't be done before, I can't justify agreeing with anyone that the percent changes to nair and fair are somehow a buff.

On fair>DFS: It's still unsafe, in fact it's MORE unsafe now. It's viable when an opponent is being sloppy, but it was previously too. I was at the point where if I intended to perform it I could on command. Making it easier doesn't improve competitive viability unless the percent that we can perform it from as a kill combo is now lower. That's not the case. And even so trying it isn't a smart idea.

DFS defensively: Defensive use of DFS has taken a major hit due to the decreased on-shield safety. Many slower opponents can punish where they couldn't punish before.

Run speed: 2% isn't insignificant. A 2% reduction puts us 1.3 frames behind for every 1 second of running time. It's enough to make our juggle game fail against a bunch of the cast now who can breverse safely enough to pass uair>fair combos. This was such a good part of Corrin's game, I'd argue that before this change she was the best anti-air character in the cast, that now goes back to Cloud.

Pivot and kara fsmash now slide a noticeably lower distance.

Pivot grab has reduced versatility. Mixups against landing opponents that worked previously don't work against some air speed characters now.

Counter: Deserved a nerf. Glad it wasn't a hitbox change to be honest, but it needs to be on the long list of losses.

***

Please. By all means disagree with me guys. But don't just offer subjective points. Please offer something quantifiable to justify the optimism. I'm not seeing anything quantifiably positive. A lot of feelings without any concrete points.

Break it down into Gains vs Losses

And just to reiterate - Being able to do something slightly easier that most of us could already do anyway isn't actually a gain.

I really don't care how a character gains damage in Smash 4 when the difference that separates the top tier of the cast and the rest has ALWAYS been kill confirms. The characters that can confirm the kill to end a stock win tournaments, the characters that can do tonnes of damage but don't have confirms do not win tournaments. We just lost our confirms.

The saving grace in the kill confirm issue is that we've still got an absolutely excellent kill throw.

 

[Hyjacked]

...I also do this. Blue/Green MCorrin is a pretty sick palette, and pink and black FCorrin are just as good if not the best. And the defaults are nothing to sneeze at. Love their design in general.

I like Green McCorrin (what I'm calling him now) and Default Lady myself.

 

[Zephil]

[Read back in the thread or these quotes would be absurd]

Wow looks like I enflamed some optimistic pssions.

The thing is guys. No one is being objective here. There's a lot of positive emotional responses and no real look at the negatives.

On combos: Being able to combo at a higher percent is not a particularly good thing unless the combo leads to a kill. The changes actually stopped that, thus a nerf.

Being able to do combos we could already do slightly easier isn't an improvement at the competitive level, everyone was already getting the combos we knew just fine.

We've lost kill confirm combos. Uair is nowhere near as good at killing anymore and can not kill from fair>uair or nair>uair at ground level unlike pre-patch. We've also lost dtilt>uair kills at the 90-100% range, it doesn't kill and stops comboing after this percent.

Unless you can show me a new combo that we've gained that couldn't be done before, I can't justify agreeing with anyone that the percent changes to nair and fair are somehow a buff.

On fair>DFS: It's still unsafe, in fact it's MORE unsafe now. It's viable when an opponent is being sloppy, but it was previously too. I was at the point where if I intended to perform it I could on command. Making it easier doesn't improve competitive viability unless the percent that we can perform it from as a kill combo is now lower. That's not the case. And even so trying it isn't a smart idea.

DFS defensively: Defensive use of DFS has taken a major hit due to the decreased on-shield safety. Many slower opponents can punish where they couldn't punish before.

Run speed: 2% isn't insignificant. A 2% reduction puts us 1.3 frames behind for every 1 second of running time. It's enough to make our juggle game fail against a bunch of the cast now who can breverse safely enough to pass uair>fair combos. This was such a good part of Corrin's game, I'd argue that before this change she was the best anti-air character in the cast, that now goes back to Cloud.

Pivot and kara fsmash now slide a noticeably lower distance.

Pivot grab has reduced versatility. Mixups against landing opponents that worked previously don't work against some air speed characters now.

Counter: Deserved a nerf. Glad it wasn't a hitbox change to be honest, but it needs to be on the long list of losses.

***

Please. By all means disagree with me guys. But don't just offer subjective points. Please offer something quantifiable to justify the optimism. I'm not seeing anything quantifiably positive. A lot of feelings without any concrete points.

Break it down into Gains vs Losses

And just to reiterate - Being able to do something slightly easier that most of us could already do anyway isn't actually a gain.

I really don't care how a character gains damage in Smash 4 when the difference that separates the top tier of the cast and the rest has ALWAYS been kill confirms. The characters that can confirm the kill to end a stock win tournaments, the characters that can do tonnes of damage but don't have confirms do not win tournaments. We just lost our confirms.

The saving grace in the kill confirm issue is that we've still got an absolutely excellent kill throw.

I agree with your point about the counter and the use of DFS defensively even though I always felt is not a very strong option defensively as I believe DFS should be more a mix-up, an edgeguard, or a landing punish and should not be used much as a zoning tool.

What I don't agree much is with the impact of the running speed nerf. I understand that it affects the pivot and kara smash and also the pivot grab but Corrin still punish very hard an opponent above her. I haven't feel a lack of impact in my juggles and if what you say about the breverse is a fact then we have to adjust to different punishes, for example if now they can escape the uair>fair mixup, I am pretty sure they still can get hit by DL or we can even land before then and adjust to the breverse move.

The space we control with our moves is still amazing and thanks good none of it was nerfed. Probably now we struggle more on large stages but then that just means we have to use more the smaller ones, now think twice before choosing T&C and maybe think about CP to Lylat (which btw is not as bad as what people think and can actually be good for Corrin)

 

[PK Gaming]

I did some hard labbing with pre and post patch Corrin, and the various "aerial combos are easier to land" claims actually check out.

Nair outright doesn't send them as far in 1.15, making it easier to connect with Fair/Nair/Uair follow ups. We have new followups that are actually impossible to perform in 1.14.

 

[Planty]

On combos: Being able to combo at a higher percent is not a particularly good thing unless the combo leads to a kill. The changes actually stopped that, thus a nerf.

You can still combo into kills.

Being able to do combos we could already do slightly easier isn't an improvement at the competitive level, everyone was already getting the combos we knew just fine.

Yes it is. Consistency is important. And not having to be 3 frames away from the ground when you hit someone with your aerial is a pretty big buff.

can not kill from fair>uair or nair>uair at ground level unlike pre-patch.

Yes you can. Or at least I've heard you can.

We've also lost dtilt>uair kills at the 90-100% range, it doesn't kill and stops comboing after this percent.

Yes you can. I was testing this on Sheik. Kills at just about the exact same % as pre-patch.

A 2% reduction puts us 1.3 frames behind for every 1 second of running time.

Just curious as to how this was figured out.

And no, losing 1.3 frames for every second of running is not significant. When in the world do you even run for more than 2 or 3 seconds while juggling?

It's still unsafe, in fact it's MORE unsafe now.

(In regards to Fair to DFS) assuming that Lord Williams spreadsheet on page 2 of this thread is correct (It probably is), Fair and Nair have the exact same shield safety as before.


Nerfs that don't completely destroy an integral aspect of a character (Luigi D-throw tornado) are generally overrated. Corrin went down like 2 or 3 spots on a tier list, max.

 

[Zephil]

I even believe Corrin hasn't moved at all. The new combo potential and consistency at even higher %s from fair and nair makes her more scary and, lets be real, the counter is still useful and still kills when the opponent makes a dumb and predictable move.

 

[Flawlessh]

I even believe Corrin hasn't moved at all. The new combo potential and consistency at even higher %s from fair and nair makes her more scary and, lets be real, the counter is still useful and still kills when the opponent makes a dumb and predictable move.

i do think the biggest nerf we got was the neutral B dmg. I can almost never get the side-b tip off of it even fully charged cross stage i cant get the tip in time (maybe the minimal speed nerf on top of the dmg nerf did this)

but the counter nerf didnt really do much, it just took rid of the dumb off the move, sure i cant kill little mac at 0% but i can kill a DDD at 50%ish from an uncharged downsmash.

 

[Lavani]

Uair getting KBG increased alongside the damage nerf results in it only killing 3% later than it used to. Fair/Nair now send opponents at 110% where they used to at 98%. It's objectively an improvement to kill combos, both widening the window and extending it far enough to compensate for opponents DIing uair. And it only gets better with rage.

Full charge DFS lost literally 1 frame of hitlag and has the same shieldstun it used to.

 

[Empyrean]

imo any shifts of Corrin's placement on the hypothetical tier list or any changes in how her MUs are played are more likely due to buffs/nerfs to characters around her than her own actual nerfs. The Sheik MU in particular probably got sooooo much better, what with Sheik's fair range getting smaller and losing the 50/50, with the added bonus of killing her earlier due to the weight nerf. Can't wait too see this played out at higher levels of play.

 

[Hero_2_All]

i do think the biggest nerf we got was the neutral B dmg. I can almost never get the side-b tip off of it even fully charged cross stage i cant get the tip in time (maybe the minimal speed nerf on top of the dmg nerf did this)

but the counter nerf didnt really do much, it just took rid of the dumb off the move, sure i cant kill little mac at 0% but i can kill a DDD at 50%ish from an uncharged downsmash.

Well it was never that good to full charge it. If u get the timing and spacing for the pop up off of uncharged it has a larger window for aerial tipper side b than full charge ever did.

 

[ThePuffDaddy]

Corrin probably went up on the tier list, tbh. Solely because matchups like sheik getting better because of her nerfs that were much worse and Meta knight going down pretty considerably it would appear in the tier list. Plus Cloud is much less scary with limit now.

 

[Green Zelda]

Corrin probably went up on the tier list, tbh. Solely because matchups like sheik getting better because of her nerfs that were much worse and Meta knight going down pretty considerably it would appear in the tier list. Plus Cloud is much less scary with limit now.

The small amount of time needed to fully charge a limit affected him that much? Wow!
How's that matchup now? Around 55-45 Cloud?