Corrin in 1.1.5

[Zephil]

The small amount of time needed to fully charge a limit affected him that much? Wow!
How's that matchup now? Around 55-45 Cloud?

People tend to overreact to patch changes, I did it too on this one at the beginning actually. While definitely better I still don't know if we can consider Clouds nerfs as definitive to affect the MU. Yeah, he is weaker but at the same time, he still beats us on the same areas, the only thing is that now he takes a little longer to get the kills.

 

[Quantumpen]

I think people are overlooking the only real meaningful cloud nerf: His u-air is not safe on shield anymore due to the histun reduction stemming from the moves damage reduction. That's actually pretty substantial for a lot of characters, that was pretty much Cloud's best move.

 

[Zephil]

I think people are overlooking the only real meaningful cloud nerf: His u-air is not safe on shield anymore due to the histun reduction stemming from the moves damage reduction. That's actually pretty substantial for a lot of characters, that was pretty much Cloud's best move.

That may be a big improvement for us because that may mean we can punish it with an instant DL

 

[Empyrean]

That may be a big improvement for us because that may mean we can punish it with an instant DL

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The only way we'll ever instant pin cloud's uair is by powershielding it AND if they miss the autocancel (which they shouldn't). Looks like the 1% nerf does however allow a shield grab now on a non-autocancelled uair, but like i said that should rarely happen with a good cloud.

---

Ally just won WFs of a michigan local using corrin. I don't know how serious he is playing and there isn't exactly much competition but hey, i guess it's something.

 

[Nah]

y'know i was sitting here for like half an hour typing something and then was like wait I shouldn't open my mouth cuz I say dumb **** half the time so instead I'll just ask: what the hell is kara

 

[atreyujames]

Well the speed nerf was only by 0.03 so... no. It's almost unnoticeable to the eye, and really shouldn't change anything after 1 or 2 day of getting used to it. In no ways will this make Corrin worse or really have any effect on anything. Our combos still work, and now we just need to be a tad closer than before for our DFS to have followups.

 

[atreyujames]

We've lost kill confirm combos. Uair is nowhere near as good at killing anymore and can not kill from fair>uair or nair>uair at ground level unlike pre-patch. We've also lost dtilt>uair kills at the 90-100% range, it doesn't kill and stops comboing after this percent.

Unless you can show me a new combo that we've gained that couldn't be done before, I can't justify agreeing with anyone that the percent changes to nair and fair are somehow a buff.

On fair>DFS: It's still unsafe, in fact it's MORE unsafe now. It's viable when an opponent is being sloppy, but it was previously too. I was at the point where if I intended to perform it I could on command. Making it easier doesn't improve competitive viability unless the percent that we can perform it from as a kill combo is now lower. That's not the case. And even so trying it isn't a smart idea.

We have lost no combo's... at all. Uairs damage did get nerfed, but its KBG got buffed. It combos at lower percents now and still kills at close to the same percent as before. I was just testing the Fair->Uair and Nair->Uair for the kill percents thread and they are still possible. Hell, pre-patch I was finding Fair to Uair to be really inconsistent but now it was rather easy to pull of albeit only on certain characters. BUT the Fair and Nair BUFFS (cuz thats what they are) extend the percent ranges of our combo's immensly. We can still start low percents with the usual Dtilt and Uptilt strings, with Fair combos sarting around 30% but now we can continue those into the hundreds! It gives us more options and damage when our kill combo's (which for certain combos have always had a veeery small window of time to read true) don't feel safe or confirmed.

On DFS again, all it did was move the percents we could kill with this up ~10% which in no way changes the viability of the kill. Whether it kills at ~60 or ~70 all that changes is whether you need to add another Fair before the DFS. We can still kill from ~50%-100% depending on the character and if we can get the proper spacing on the FF Fair.

If all you care about are kill cobos then by all means, lab out the percents. You should find that from 60% all the way up to 110%, we still hav a kill combo for almost every percentage. We are not in dire straights for that

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Don't even notice it, really. And I haven't had any trouble with the Dragon Ball > Side-B TIPPER.

 

[Delzethin]

Yeah, this feels really overblown. It's only a reduction of around 3-4%, nothing huge, and it doesn't seem to affect us significantly.

 

[Noro~]

It does reduce the range at which we can NeutralB > doublejump SideB tipper after paralysis ends significantly I feel. You now have to stand considerably closer when hitting the charged NeutralB or have to hit at higher percentages. Yes, you can just SideB tipper while the opponent is still paralysed, but the former method had much more kill potential.

 

[Flawlessh]

apparently our air speed was nerfed by .03
and our item throw strength was also nerfed
and our "2nd hit" of DFS was nerfed (there saying its not the bite but like the upper hitbox of the projectile or something)

So now can we all agree that corrin got a nerf? None of this "oh we got a buff cuz we can combo 10% later then normal"

sure the .03% is prob just like the running speed, only a couple frames slower but with all of this added up its quite big.

 

[Nah]

The list of changes right now is, from the primary patch notes/mining thread:

Uair:
Damage: 10 -> 9
KBG: 94 -> 99

Nair: Early/Late Damage: 8/6.5 -> 7/5,5

Fair: Damage: 8.5 -> 7.5

Dragon Fang Shot:
Fully Charged Damage: 13 -> 11
Uncharged Damage (Hitbox 2): 11 -> 9
Non-Fully Charged Damage: 4-10 -> 4-8

Counter Surge:
Damage Multiplier: x1.3 -> x1.2
Counter Active Frames: 7-29F -> 7-24F
Bugfix: Damage scales properly instead of being limited to the minimum 8% when slowed down.

Walk Speed: 1.2 -> 1.15
Run Speed: 1.5 -> 1.45
Air Speed: 1 -> .97

Front/Back Roll:
Total Frames: 29F -> 30F
Intangibility: 4-16F -> 4-14F

So Uair really did get a KBG increase so it kills only a couple of % later....but the mobility nerfs were a bit worse than we thought. Not sure what exactly those other changes to DFS mean.

 

[Ingoro]

apparently our air speed was nerfed by .03
and our item throw strength was also nerfed
and our "2nd hit" of DFS was nerfed (there saying its not the bite but like the upper hitbox of the projectile or something)

So now can we all agree that corrin got a nerf? None of this "oh we got a buff cuz we can combo 10% later then normal"

sure the .03% is prob just like the running speed, only a couple frames slower but with all of this added up its quite big.

What's up with the need to categorize it? He/she changed and how you categorize it, is debatable. Not really sure with what you're trying to achieve with a sarcastic figurative quote.

 

[Hero_2_All]

U-air is still the biggest nerf as it kills mario 6% later on center of FD. For comboing, our ability has gone up, not down. This is regardless of these speed nerfs (more like 20% later on combos and earlier stuff strings better into more stuff). This is simply because the target will be closer and the speed is less of a factor. Were speed nerfs could adversely effect us is a little bit in spacing (by a little I mean a little, like if your spacing was down to a couple frames of positioning). The base of every smash game is to... "not get hit ", and "get hits" (also killing with those hits :3). Long as our ability to do those is not worsened then corrin will be good (killing with those hits was the biggest nerf, while getting hits has gone up).

 

[Nah]

What's up with the need to categorize it? He/she changed and how you categorize it, is debatable. Not really sure with what you're trying to achieve with a sarcastic figurative quote.

It's that it's pretty much clear now that the character has indeed been nerfed (not that I ever really thought that any of the nerfs were buffs in disguise) and everyone kinda needs to accept that so we can begin to figure out how to adapt to the changes. Holding on to the belief that practically nothing happened is only going to hurt us in the long run.

What's truly debatable at this point is how much the nerfs are going to affect Corrin. Which I think will be not much, but you still need to adapt to even small changes.



....I find it a bit odd though that they'd nerf Corrin after buffing the ever-loving **** out of (and to a much lesser extent, he's also still bad). Though at the same time it's borderline miraculous that this was all we got given the insane quantities of salt Corrin's produced since her reveal.

 

[Banjodorf]

\

It's that it's pretty much clear now that the character has indeed been nerfed (not that I ever really thought that any of the nerfs were buffs in disguise) and everyone kinda needs to accept that so we can begin to figure out how to adapt to the changes. Holding on to the belief that practically nothing happened is only going to hurt us in the long run.

What's truly debatable at this point is how much the nerfs are going to affect Corrin. Which I think will be not much, but you still need to adapt to even small changes.



....I find it a bit odd though that they'd nerf Corrin after buffing the ever-loving **** out of (and to a much lesser extent, he's also still bad). Though at the same time it's borderline miraculous that this was all we got given the insane quantities of salt Corrin's produced since her reveal.

Yeah. It's not that people here are saying Corrin hasn't been nerfed. Just that one of the changes is more of a buff, and that the nerfs aren't so bad that they've crippled Corrin to unviability. I won't deny that there are nerfs, that's just dumb.

 

[PK Gaming]

The list of changes right now is, from the primary patch notes/mining thread:

Uair:
Damage: 10 -> 9
KBG: 94 -> 99

Nair: Early/Late Damage: 8/6.5 -> 7/5,5

Fair: Damage: 8.5 -> 7.5

Dragon Fang Shot:
Fully Charged Damage: 13 -> 11
Uncharged Damage (Hitbox 2): 11 -> 9
Non-Fully Charged Damage: 4-10 -> 4-8

Counter Surge:
Damage Multiplier: x1.3 -> x1.2
Counter Active Frames: 7-29F -> 7-24F
Bugfix: Damage scales properly instead of being limited to the minimum 8% when slowed down.

Walk Speed: 1.2 -> 1.15
Run Speed: 1.5 -> 1.45
Air Speed: 1 -> .97

Front/Back Roll:
Total Frames: 29F -> 30F
Intangibility: 4-16F -> 4-14F

So Uair really did get a KBG increase so it kills only a couple of % later....but the mobility nerfs were a bit worse than we thought. Not sure what exactly those other changes to DFS mean.

Huh, so our air Speed was hit too. It shouldn't make much of a difference since 0.97 is still well within the average range.

The changes to DFS just affect the damage at every charge level. Uncharged shots are the same, but charges at level 1, 2, etc do less damage.

They really took a crowbar to Counter's activate frames though, yowch. We now get 17 instead of the standard 22, making it noticeably easier to punish. Couldn't they have just toned down the damage multiplier? Haha.

 

[Ingoro]

It's that it's pretty much clear now that the character has indeed been nerfed (not that I ever really thought that any of the nerfs were buffs in disguise) and everyone kinda needs to accept that so we can begin to figure out how to adapt to the changes. Holding on to the belief that practically nothing happened is only going to hurt us in the long run.

What's truly debatable at this point is how much the nerfs are going to affect Corrin. Which I think will be not much, but you still need to adapt to even small changes.



....I find it a bit odd though that they'd nerf Corrin after buffing the ever-loving **** out of (and to a much lesser extent, he's also still bad). Though at the same time it's borderline miraculous that this was all we got given the insane quantities of salt Corrin's produced since her reveal.

I honestly doubt people will hold back on these 'nerfs' I find saying "changes" a more positive approach to the patch as opposed to saying that we've been nerfed.
What if in a few months time we somehow find a combo from weak hit Nair into Fair into DFS and this combo kills between 20-30 percentages ranges and we're able to constantly use that in tournament play?. I would then consider this patch overall a 'buff' to the character.

However, I see no potential into slowing a character down so I'm agreeing on that aspect of the changes that it is a nerf to the character.

Sorry for being a bit harsh but saying things like "Holding on to the belief that practically nothing happened is only going to hurt us in the long run." quite overdramatization. What does that even mean? You expect players to give up the character so easily after a few variables changed? And how would holding on to the beliefs actually reflect into labbing for example? If players try their 1.1.4 combos and they don't work now... well after 1 or 2 attempts, they are gonna know and try something different.

 

[Hero_2_All]

I honestly doubt people will hold back on these 'nerfs' I find saying "changes" a more positive approach to the patch as opposed to saying that we've been nerfed.
What if in a few months time we somehow find a combo from weak hit Nair into Fair into DFS and this combo kills between 20-30 percentages ranges and we're able to constantly use that in tournament play?. I would then consider this patch overall a 'buff' to the character.

However, I see no potential into slowing a character down so I'm agreeing on that aspect of the changes that it is a nerf to the character.

Sorry for being a bit harsh but saying things like "Holding on to the believe that practically nothing happened is only going to hurt us in the long run." quite overdramatization. What does that even mean? You expect players to give up the character so easily after a few variables changed? And how would holding on to the beliefs actually reflect into labbing for example? If players try their 1.1.4 combos and they don't work now... well after 1 or 2 attempts, they are gonna know and try something different.

all our old combos work better with some new ones (the confirm into dtilt u-air is an exception and is tighter and is more 50/50 atm, with up b being the air dodge punish), but ya im just trying to keep us positive and show people its not like the sky is falling XD. Personally I love the changes, nerfs, or what ever they are. One of my biggest grips day one was that corrin didn't chain aerials to higher percents, but now she does (also wanted high mobility like marth, but hey a man can dream). Friend and I will get back from college this Saturday so ill see if we can't lab some stuff out.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's odd that Corrin's air speed got weakened too. His recovery was already mediocre to begin with, so the air speed nerf does nerf his recovery a little.

 

[Skitrel]

y'know i was sitting here for like half an hour typing something and then was like wait I shouldn't open my mouth cuz I say dumb **** half the time so instead I'll just ask: what the hell is kara

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LE1emLDAZ8

It's just a colloquial nickname for this tech that became the more common name for it. I believe the name of the original finder or something like that, I can't really recall, I just picked it up as the name they use for the tech from the Marth boards which is the only character board that really makes use of it as its only real use is with having an extra movement option for spacing perfectly with tipper characters.

I should get around to responding to the rest of things here but I'm strapped for time. I'm pleased that people have moved into some more tangible differences though. People shouldn't get me wrong and mistake my talk for sky-is-falling talk, I just want to steer things towards objective before/after differences that can be written in specifics. IE - You could do this before/You can't now. And you couldn't do this before/You can now.

There's a tangible negative. We've lost things but we're still good, however we should clearly dictate what has been lost and what has been gained rather than quibbling about positivity or negativity. It's more constructive to construct a clear picture with lists and data rather than an emotional one on how it "feels".

 

[Arrei]

I find it a bit odd though that they'd nerf Corrin after buffing the ever-loving **** out of (and to a much lesser extent, he's also still bad). Though at the same time it's borderline miraculous that this was all we got given the insane quantities of salt Corrin's produced since her reveal.

Well, the difference there is that Corrin started in a good place. Safety, combos, kill setups, the works. Ike, Marthcina, and to a somewhat lesser extent Robin started out straight-up bad. Ike and Marth received almost nothing but nerfs from Brawl to 4 and nowhere near enough to make up for them, especially Ike, who lost power in practically all of his moves and was still slow as molasses. (They saw fit to nerf Fsmash while keeping it the slowest smash in the game. What the flip, Namdai?)

Now, it still perplexes me that they needed to nerf the movement of a character with such middling movement stats to begin with. Perhaps her Uair juggle game was just a smidge too potent? Perhaps they thought she moved too similarly to existing FE characters?

 

[Planty]

What if in a few months time we somehow find a combo from weak hit Nair into Fair into DFS and this combo kills between 20-30 percentages ranges and we're able to constantly use that in tournament play?. I would then consider this patch overall a 'buff' to the character.

That existed pre-patch and pretty sure it still exists this patch. I've gotten it to work on light fast-fallers (mainly Sheik and Fox). Admittedly though, I have no idea what the specifics are or whom exactly it works on.

At 30-ish, land with a Fair/Nair -> fullhop Fair -> double jump -> footstool -> land with Fair/Nair -> DFS. It's kinda tough.

 

[Astellius]

Honestly, I think my performance as Corrin has improved with the patch changes. Aerial string attacks seem noticeably more fluid to achieve now, at least for me. Fluidity of performance, of course, is something that's very hard to measure, especially when compared with hard data changes. However, I seem to get better aerial command now because the follow ups seem more natural. Anyone else feel this as well?

 

[Fex13]

Honestly, I think my performance as Corrin has improved with the patch changes. Aerial string attacks seem noticeably more fluid to achieve now, at least for me. Fluidity of performance, of course, is something that's very hard to measure, especially when compared with hard data changes. However, I seem to get better aerial command now because the follow ups seem more natural. Anyone else feel this as well?

i have the exact same feeling. the only thing that really annoys me, is that you cant follow up DFS with tipper lunge as well anymore. overall, the patch was pretty good for us, imo. (mainly due to sheik/cloud nerfs, even though the cloud nerf was just a minor one)

 

[Rufure]

Annnnd we got a run Speed nerf.

We can manage that too, but sheesh, talk about unnecessary.

The run speed pissed me kinda off because it was already hard to combo with Corrin tbh

 

[VioletSmashfan]

The run speed pissed me kinda off because it was already hard to combo with Corrin tbh

The run speed nerf (along with the other speed nerfs) were totally unnecessary, Corrin was already a slow character to begin with, he/she needed a speed buff badly.

Guess this means Corrin will be in lower tiers now, they really do hate the new FE characters it seems.

 

[Planty]

The run speed nerf (along with the other speed nerfs) were totally unnecessary, Corrin was already a slow character to begin with, he/she needed a speed buff badly.

Guess this means Corrin will be in lower tiers now, they really do hate the new FE characters it seems.

WHAT??? The speed nerfs are barely noticeable and have an insignificant effect on Corrin's viability. She's still a character that can threaten at midrange just by standing in the right spot and is heavily rewarded for smart, patient play.

 

[atreyujames]

The run speed nerf (along with the other speed nerfs) were totally unnecessary, Corrin was already a slow character to begin with, he/she needed a speed buff badly.

Guess this means Corrin will be in lower tiers now, they really do hate the new FE characters it seems.

The run speed nerf is almost entirely unnoticeable. For a visual comparison look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxOOnvqilmk

It's barely a 2-3 frame difference. It should not effect anyone's gameplay more than a minuscule amount. Every combo we had before is still possible and not any harder to pull off, EVEN Dragon Ball into Tipper Lunge. The speed nerf is being over-exaggerated to high heaven. The only nerf that makes any real difference is the Uair one, and even then it only kills ~5% later. Corrin is no worse than before, I would even warrant to say she is better, since the Fair/Nair damage nerfs make combos easier to pull off and extends them into higher percent ranges.

 

[Azraekos]

It's practically unnoticeable. There's a few combos that are slightly harder to land now, but none are coming to mind right now.

Even though I've become a Corrin main after maining Ike since release, this slight speed nerf is actually somewhat appreciated. It makes combos more satisfying to land.

 

[PK Gaming]

It does reduce the range at which we can NeutralB > doublejump SideB tipper after paralysis ends significantly I feel. You now have to stand considerably closer when hitting the charged NeutralB or have to hit at higher percentages. Yes, you can just SideB tipper while the opponent is still paralysed, but the former method had much more kill potential.

That isn't because of the speed nerf. What's happening is that they're exiting stun quicker due to the fact that DFS does less damage (which means they're in stun for less time).

 

[Ingoro]

Guys, I've something to address. Could there be a possibility of Corrin's moves being lowered in attack priority? This might just be fiction all my head but to me it feels like disjointed moves such as Fsmash and Dragon Pin have been lowered on the attack priority list. I saw these two moves clash with tilts from Pikachu over the past weekend. Thoughts on this?

 

[Lavani]

Guys, I've something to address. Could there be a possibility of Corrin's moves being lowered in attack priority? This might just be fiction all my head but to me it feels like disjointed moves such as Fsmash and Dragon Pin have been lowered on the attack priority list. I saw these two moves clash with tilts from Pikachu over the past weekend. Thoughts on this?

Fsmash and sideB have been flagged as low priority since Corrin's release. Can be clanked by aerials, can be clanked regardless of the other attack's power. Same with Bayo's smashes.

I feel like eating a shoe whenever sideB clanks on Fire Fox, but yeah, it's not new.

 

[Arrei]

Wait, is Dragon Lunge not considered an aerial attack? I thought aerials could only trade and not clank?

 

[Lavani]

Wait, is Dragon Lunge not considered an aerial attack? I thought aerials could only trade and not clank?

It's either because it's flagged as a low priority move, or because the spear arm is technically an article (could be thought of as an item) rather than a part of Corrin. Whatever the reason, it can definitely clank on aerials.

 

[PK Gaming]

The Nair > Uair kill set up is real (10:27:50)

I mean, I knew it was real but it's nice to see it play out in an actual match.

 

[OshaHott]

Anyone that's good at the game wanna play? I just downloaded Corrin and Bayo last night and need a sparring partner! (Btw, even though I'm okay at the game, with these 2 I'm pretty much a FG Mac using a Corrin! xD)

 

[Deleted member 189823]

The Nair > Uair kill set up is real (10:27:50)

I mean, I knew it was real but it's nice to see it play out in an actual match.

Are you sure that's an actual combo, though? Seemed like there was enough time for MasterRaven to do something and maybe he got caught off-guard? Regardless, it was pretty awesome. I was there. <3

 

[PK Gaming]

Are you sure that's an actual combo, though? Seemed like there was enough time for MasterRaven to do something and maybe he got caught off-guard? Regardless, it was pretty awesome. I was there. <3

Probably not a true combo, but for sure the opportunity to do so wouldn't have been there in 1.14 (since Nair sends them further).

But yeah overall, it looks most people have to look out for Nair at higher %. Keep em awake :o

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I happened to test D-Tilt to Mario and he dies off of it at 107 in FD (U-Air kills him at 115 after the D-Tilt) without DI or RAGE. Goes to say how much of a difference that made. Now, I'm not sure what was the percentages on WiiU pre-patch, but it probably kills like 8-10% later on 3DS. On 3DS, Mario dies at 122 from U-Air. I also killed a Sheik in tournament at 97% with only 48% of RAGE on me. about roughly the same height on Smashville.