Corrin in 1.1.5

[Rawbinator]

That feel when you wake up in the morning to find your new main nerfed...I don't get it at all, but I'll manage I guess. Not used to nerfs after maining Shulk before lmao

 

[Flawlessh]

half charged bite / almost full charge bite still has more knockback then full bite (tested on edge of smashville on fox at 50% fully charged didnt kill but semi charged did)

 

[Nah]

At least these nerfs are bearable. I was rather concerned when I heard "nerfs" cuz I was certain that the nerfs would be overreactionary and hurt a lot. But they don't seem to be so.....

Like, the run speed difference is essentially the difference between Robin's and Jiggs's runs, ie practically nothing.

the real surprise with this patch was that there was no Ike buffs lol

 

[Green Zelda]

At least these nerfs are bearable. I was rather concerned when I heard "nerfs" cuz I was certain that the nerfs would be overreactionary and hurt a lot. But they don't seem to be so.....

Like, the run speed difference is essentially the difference between Robin's and Jiggs's runs, ie practically nothing.

the real surprise with this patch was that there was no Ike buffs lol

0/10 not enough fire emblem bias

 

[ZapCorp]

So, overall this patch has taken away most of the reason to whine about Corrin and some of our easy kills, and given us a slightly better combo game and the fear of Daddy Sakurai.

 

[Arrei]

As long as Counter Surge still punishes haphazard aerial chases, I'm content with it.

 

[Phenomiracle]

How badly was the Counter nerfed? I haven't seen any hard numbers on that just yet.

None of the other nerfs look too drastic, but yeah, a few were stupidly unnecessary.

 

[Splebel]

I don't know why people think the counter nerf was unnecessary. In competitive smash it is fine but in casual smash that move is overpowered. No one should be surprised that counter surge was nerfed.

 

[Kenjin]

I want to clarify something. i'll link this: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Corrin
Correct me please if I say something wrong here but:
Moves have 3 stats. Damage dealt, base knockback (how far it sends), and KBG (the scaling of the knockback).

Uair doesn't kill later if they only changed the damage dealt.

But I'm not sure she actually earned new combos, unless she lost KB on her aerials or she actually benefits from dealing less damage.

 

[ZapCorp]

I want to clarify something. i'll link this: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Corrin
Correct me please if I say something wrong here but:
Moves have 3 stats. Damage dealt, base knockback (how far it sends), and KBG (the scaling of the knockback).

Uair doesn't kill later if they only changed the damage dealt.

But I'm not sure she actually earned new combos, unless she lost KB on her aerials or she actually benefits from dealing less damage.

Knockback is based off of an equation that involves damage dealt, so uair will kill later and aerials will combo better because they allow for shorter chases.

 

[PK Gaming]

I want to clarify something. i'll link this: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Corrin
Correct me please if I say something wrong here but:
Moves have 3 stats. Damage dealt, base knockback (how far it sends), and KBG (the scaling of the knockback).

Uair doesn't kill later if they only changed the damage dealt.

But I'm not sure she actually earned new combos, unless she lost KB on her aerials or she actually benefits from dealing less damage.

I tested Uair on both versions.

It straight up kills later, but admittedly not my too much.

 

[Kenjin]

So how is Cloud's Down B sending you so far while dealing only 1%?

 

[Flawlessh]

So how is Cloud's Down B sending you so far while dealing only 1%?

because its knockback growth is like 400 compared to other moves being under 100
EDIT:
also finishing touch isnt based on weight its based on fall speed if i remember (fox lived the longest from it even know hes light AF, with dedede and greninja living almost just as long)

 

[Kenjin]

So you mean in Kurogane, because Uair has less damage you'll see the base KB going down as well?

Well, if it stays better than Cloud's Uair i'm ok.

 

[Arrei]

BKB and KGB are just numbers used in the formula. And damage itself is also used in the formula. So changing any of them changes the overall knockback.

 

[MaxRevenge]

How badly was the Counter nerfed? I haven't seen any hard numbers on that just yet.

None of the other nerfs look too drastic, but yeah, a few were stupidly unnecessary.

Damage multiplier: 1.3x -> 1.2x
Active counter frames: 30 -> 25
KBG and BKG values: Don't know if this changed or not

 

[Maraphy]

How are the roll nerfs going to effect Corrin's gameplay? Should they never use rolls now?

Was rolling always a bad option anyway?

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

The roll lag seems trivial hopefully. Run speed was overkill and I wish uair was not nerfed.

 

[ThePuffDaddy]

I'm still upset that characters were nerfed at all to be honest with you, kinda ruins any chance of a real meta developing. :/

 

[Phenomiracle]

The roll lag seems trivial hopefully. Run speed was overkill and I wish uair was not nerfed.

Run nerf seems trivial as well.

That said, I'd expect run speed to be noticeably buffed considering all these other changes. This is a bit absurd.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

I'm still upset that characters were nerfed at all to be honest with you, kinda ruins any chance of a real meta developing. :/

I feel Sheik and Bayo had to be nerfed to increase character diversity, but every other character could have been untouched or used a few good buffs.

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm still upset that characters were nerfed at all to be honest with you, kinda ruins any chance of a real meta developing. :/

How so? They didn't nerf anything value.

Most of the changes are nearly irrelevant (roll, run, walk), some of them are tradeoffs (Fair and Nair are supposedly better at comboing) and the one hard nerf (Uair) is something can definitely live with.

I'm going to be honest, the footstool DFS combos were nice, but hardly consistent. Top level Corrin's weren't really making use out of it.

So relax everyone. No need to panic.

 

[shedinja33]

I really dislike nerfs
You get settled to a character and have thought up a good strategy but one slight angle change and you're back to square one

Infrequently, buffs do less helping than you'd think

 

[Ragna92]

Wow... finally happy about my main and then comes a nerf. While it isn't that bad of a nerf it was pretty unnecessary.

Run speed nerf... as if Corrin wasn't already slow enough on the ground.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wow... finally happy about my main and then comes a nerf. While it isn't that bad of a nerf it was pretty unnecessary.

Run speed nerf... as if Corrin wasn't already slow enough on the ground.

At least he's not Ganondorf slow.

 

[Phenomiracle]

At least he's not Ganondorf slow.

That aint comfort homes

 

[Planty]

Is almost full charge DFS bite weaker too or did it keep its KB? It was always stronger than the full bite. Also people are ignoring that hitstun is tied into KB. By nerfing KB, Fair and Nair have less hitstun. Do they really combo better now or are people just assuming? Also is D-tilt -> Uair still a true kill combo?

 

[Nah]

When was Dtilt to uair a true kill combo?

 

[Planty]

When was Dtilt to uair a true kill combo?

The window was tight, around mid-90s on Sheik. Not earlier or later. You also had to buffer the first jump and double jump almost immediately. It was really tough to do without practice. I did hear once that it worked on Roy from 90-122, but I was never able to replicate it.

 

[Empyrean]

Idk I don't mind most of these nerfs. Uair definitely sometimes killed at questionable percents before so the 1% nerf isn't too outlandish. Nair and fair damage nerfs slightly reduce our damage output but if they indeed do combo better that probably won't matter much. I'm not sure why they would nerf run and walk speed (if i had to venture a guess it would be to differentiate her from Ike some more, stats-wise) but so long as we keep our airspeed and excellent initial dash (and dash to shield) I'm not too mad.

I don't know how much these nerfs are gonna affect Corrin in the long term, but seeing as the best characters around got some significant nerfs we probably got the better end of the Nerf straw.

wait i mean OH NO WHY THEY NERF MUH CHARACTER LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE GARBAGE SO UNFAIR

 

[ThePuffDaddy]

How so? They didn't nerf anything value.

Most of the changes are nearly irrelevant (roll, run, walk), some of them are tradeoffs (Fair and Nair are supposedly better at comboing) and the one hard nerf (Uair) is something can definitely live with.

I'm going to be honest, the footstool DFS combos were nice, but hardly consistent. Top level Corrin's weren't really making use out of it.

So relax everyone. No need to panic.

I was referring to nerfs in general, not Corrin specifically.


I play Corrin like all day every day, she's still fine lol, her nerfs arent much.

 

[Skitrel]

I'm still upset that characters were nerfed at all to be honest with you, kinda ruins any chance of a real meta developing. :/

People look at these nerfs wrong.

For aerial Corrin play-styles it took 4 decent strings of 3 hits(fair/nair/uair) to kill an opponent previously. It now takes 6 decent strings with the killing power of uair and the a total 9-12% reduction in damage over the course of an opponent's stock.

People regularly don't understand the full implications of a 1% change to a single move, let alone a 1% change to the main aerial combos a character has.

Those of you with play-styles that focus on her aerials, you've been hit very hard. Those of you with play-styles that utilise IP punishes more, you've not been touched. If you previously relied on her aerials a lot, you're going to find things much much harder.

My honest opinion here, this has made Corrin a more defensive character. Previously she could rush down pretty well and apply enormous pressure, now she has to be reactionary and can't chase opponents with the same pressure. That movement speed change is pretty significant for her ability to keep opponents heavily pressured, now her chase doesn't have the same fear factor it did.

Her anti air also greatly benefitted from her walk speed, which allowed her to stay under opponents and abuse uair>nair frametraps to never allow characters like Captain Falcon to get back to ground. This is no longer the case, even a character like him can move far enough horizontally for Corrin to no longer be able to play the juggle game she previously had. All the top 15 competitive characters? Corrin doesn't threaten them any more like she could.

There's a lot of optimism going on in here, a lot of it sounds like FG talk to be honest. This has hit competitive Corrin really hard. These are hard hitting changes that have changed a significant number of matchups.

My prediction? She becomes a less interesting character now. Where we were previously seeing a different style from every competitive Corrin we're going to see everything revolve around IP/DL, the most reliable tool in her kit.

This was definitely an overreaction to the crying about Corrin. My guess is that the new "pay2win" mantra that only started after the last DLC was a particularly scary thing for them to hear internally so they've hit hard to try and stop that.

 

[Empyrean]

According to @LordWilliam1234's 1.15 frame data sheets, the 1% damage nerfs to nair, fair, and uair wasn't enough to affect their shield safety, staying at -7, -8 and -8 OoS respectively. However, full charge Dragon Fang Shot's damage having been reduced by 2% and being a projectile, its safety on shield went from -30 OoS in 1.14 to -35 OoS in 1.15 so it's quite a bit more unsafe now.

Funny enough, the damage nerf on nair and fair was enough to reduce their hitlag by 1 frame, going from 8 to 7 frames in 1.15, which makes the window to DI both moves 1 frame shorter. Not a gamechanger by any means, but cool, I guess.

 

[ThePuffDaddy]

According to @LordWilliam1234's 1.15 frame data sheets, the 1% damage nerfs to nair, fair, and uair wasn't enough to affect their shield safety, staying at -7, -8 and -8 OoS respectively. However, full charge Dragon Fang Shot's damage having been reduced by 2% and being a projectile, its safety on shield went from -30 OoS in 1.14 to -35 OoS in 1.15 so it's quite a bit more unsafe now.

Funny enough, the damage nerf on nair and fair was enough to reduce their hitlag by 1 frame, going from 8 to 7 frames in 1.15, which makes the window to DI both moves 1 frame shorter. Not a gamechanger by any means, but cool, I guess.

Well that's something at least.

 

[Hero_2_All]

People look at these nerfs wrong.

For aerial Corrin play-styles it took 4 decent strings of 3 hits(fair/nair/uair) to kill an opponent previously. It now takes 6 decent strings with the killing power of uair and the a total 9-12% reduction in damage over the course of an opponent's stock.

People regularly don't understand the full implications of a 1% change to a single move, let alone a 1% change to the main aerial combos a character has.

Those of you with play-styles that focus on her aerials, you've been hit very hard. Those of you with play-styles that utilise IP punishes more, you've not been touched. If you previously relied on her aerials a lot, you're going to find things much much harder.

My honest opinion here, this has made Corrin a more defensive character. Previously she could rush down pretty well and apply enormous pressure, now she has to be reactionary and can't chase opponents with the same pressure. That movement speed change is pretty significant for her ability to keep opponents heavily pressured, now her chase doesn't have the same fear factor it did.

Her anti air also greatly benefitted from her walk speed, which allowed her to stay under opponents and abuse uair>nair frametraps to never allow characters like Captain Falcon to get back to ground. This is no longer the case, even a character like him can move far enough horizontally for Corrin to no longer be able to play the juggle game she previously had. All the top 15 competitive characters? Corrin doesn't threaten them any more like she could.

There's a lot of optimism going on in here, a lot of it sounds like FG talk to be honest. This has hit competitive Corrin really hard. These are hard hitting changes that have changed a significant number of matchups.

My prediction? She becomes a less interesting character now. Where we were previously seeing a different style from every competitive Corrin we're going to see everything revolve around IP/DL, the most reliable tool in her kit.

This was definitely an overreaction to the crying about Corrin. My guess is that the new "pay2win" mantra that only started after the last DLC was a particularly scary thing for them to hear internally so they've hit hard to try and stop that.

Hardly "FG talk". Her dmg output as of now is overall better. Corrin's aerial combos combine much better and later due to f air and n air having less knock back (also we have been given new kill set ups because of this). With 2 extra f airs and or n airs on a stock u have made up the stated dmg deficit with extra credit. Personally ive been stringing aerials up to much higher percents. You are right in saying the string has less dmg. Because of this her burst dmg at lower percents is now less. Yet, now corrin can string the same combos into the 80's and 90's which was impossible before without platforms. Before at said percents she could follow into one aerial from a combo starter. Now she can combo 2 to 3 aerials at these percents off a combo starter. As such her aerial dmg is much more consistant moving into higher percents when before it dropped off (albeit less bursty). Also corrin's speed was decreased by 2 percent ( but acceleration was not touched so short burst should be no diffrent). Hurts a little, but its not like she cant juggle her u-tilt anymore. Also aerial speed was un touched. U -air needed the nerf with these f air and n air changes (true combos to u air at a percent and hight old u air would kill... its super easy bake). Maybe she is as worse as you say, maybe better, only time will tell.

According to @LordWilliam1234's 1.15 frame data sheets, the 1% damage nerfs to nair, fair, and uair wasn't enough to affect their shield safety, staying at -7, -8 and -8 OoS respectively. However, full charge Dragon Fang Shot's damage having been reduced by 2% and being a projectile, its safety on shield went from -30 OoS in 1.14 to -35 OoS in 1.15 so it's quite a bit more unsafe now.

Funny enough, the damage nerf on nair and fair was enough to reduce their hitlag by 1 frame, going from 8 to 7 frames in 1.15, which makes the window to DI both moves 1 frame shorter. Not a gamechanger by any means, but cool, I guess.

Good to know.. also only 1 frame hit lag reduction off all that knock back reduction... neet.

 

[Planty]

People look at these nerfs wrong.

For aerial Corrin play-styles it took 4 decent strings of 3 hits(fair/nair/uair) to kill an opponent previously. It now takes 6 decent strings with the killing power of uair and the a total 9-12% reduction in damage over the course of an opponent's stock.

People regularly don't understand the full implications of a 1% change to a single move, let alone a 1% change to the main aerial combos a character has.

Those of you with play-styles that focus on her aerials, you've been hit very hard. Those of you with play-styles that utilise IP punishes more, you've not been touched. If you previously relied on her aerials a lot, you're going to find things much much harder.

My honest opinion here, this has made Corrin a more defensive character. Previously she could rush down pretty well and apply enormous pressure, now she has to be reactionary and can't chase opponents with the same pressure. That movement speed change is pretty significant for her ability to keep opponents heavily pressured, now her chase doesn't have the same fear factor it did.

Her anti air also greatly benefitted from her walk speed, which allowed her to stay under opponents and abuse uair>nair frametraps to never allow characters like Captain Falcon to get back to ground. This is no longer the case, even a character like him can move far enough horizontally for Corrin to no longer be able to play the juggle game she previously had. All the top 15 competitive characters? Corrin doesn't threaten them any more like she could.

There's a lot of optimism going on in here, a lot of it sounds like FG talk to be honest. This has hit competitive Corrin really hard. These are hard hitting changes that have changed a significant number of matchups.

My prediction? She becomes a less interesting character now. Where we were previously seeing a different style from every competitive Corrin we're going to see everything revolve around IP/DL, the most reliable tool in her kit.

This was definitely an overreaction to the crying about Corrin. My guess is that the new "pay2win" mantra that only started after the last DLC was a particularly scary thing for them to hear internally so they've hit hard to try and stop that.

This is a knee-jerk reaction. Fair and Nair changes are buffs if anything. Her combo game is noticeably better now and a better combo game absolutely makes up for a tiny damage reduction. Your overall damage output is higher. And apparently their shield safety wasn't reduced either.

Also Uair didn't change too much. I was testing D-tilt -> Uair and it kills at almost the exact same percents.

Mobility changes aren't even noticeable. At least running isn't. Walking feels about the same too. I'm not denying that it was nerfed but it's nothing major. Also air speed, initial dash, and dash to shield are all the same.

Also Fair/Nair to DFS is so easy now and the percent window to do it is bigger too.

 

[Green Zelda]

Also Fair/Nair to DFS is so easy now and the percent window to do it is bigger too.

Can I see a video of this? it sounds really cool!

 

[Hero_2_All]

Can I see a video of this? it sounds really cool!

This was a known set up even before the patch. Its just now much more consistant as a combo finisher. Hell today i u tilt to fair to bite a mew two for a stock. Btw pre patch video:
https://youtu.be/uZNCcbUHvqY

 

[Meta651]

Someone knows if that kill setup of Fair to DFS still works?

EDIT: I said nothing, thanks Hero

 

[Hero_2_All]

Someone knows if that kill setup of Fair to DFS still works?

It does, and is even easier thanks to knock back reductions. It can even do it after an aerial f air or n air into double jump DFS.

Someone knows if that kill setup of Fair to DFS still works?

EDIT: I said nothing, thanks Hero

No problem