Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[Oracle_Summon]

Considering they stated in their latest investor meeting early this May that they have unannounced games still on schedule if things don't get worse around Japan (which is the opposite now, it's going really well, they lifted their state of emergency already in the remaining prefactures just days ago),

At this point I just want more first party Nintendo characters added to Smash and wanting lesser known franchises to be revived by Nintendo.

Golden Sun, Eternal Darkness, Battalion Wars, Excite Truck, Sin and Punishment, Elite Beat Agents, Disaster: Days of Crisis, Advance Wars, F-Zero, Chibi Robo, Punch out, Kid Icarus, Pilot Wings, Wave Race, 1080 Snow Boarding, Nintendogs, Mother/Earthbound, Zangeki no Reginleiv, Jill Drill Dozer, Geist and the Magical series would be pretty good games for Nintendo to flesh out more of their franchises.

Good news that ARMS is rising up in popularity due to Smash. Brings a smile to my face knowing that a Nintendo Franchise is doing well.

 

[Nazyrus]

At this point I just want more first party Nintendo characters added to Smash and wanting lesser known franchises to be revived by Nintendo.

Golden Sun, Eternal Darkness, Battalion Wars, Excite Truck, Sin and Punishment, Elite Beat Agents, Disaster: Days of Crisis, Advance Wars, F-Zero, Chibi Robo, Punch out, Kid Icarus, Pilot Wings, Wave Race, 1080 Snow Boarding, Nintendogs, Mother/Earthbound, Zangeki no Reginleiv, Jill Drill Dozer, Geist and the Magical series would be pretty good games for Nintendo to flesh out more of their franchises.

Good news that ARMS is rising up in popularity due to Smash. Brings a smile to my face knowing that a Nintendo Franchise is doing well.

I totally agree, bring moar 1st parties this time.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

At this point I just want more first party Nintendo characters added to Smash and wanting lesser known franchises to be revived by Nintendo.

Golden Sun, Eternal Darkness, Battalion Wars, Excite Truck, Sin and Punishment, Elite Beat Agents, Disaster: Days of Crisis, Advance Wars, F-Zero, Chibi Robo, Punch out, Kid Icarus, Pilot Wings, Wave Race, 1080 Snow Boarding, Nintendogs, Mother/Earthbound, Zangeki no Reginleiv, Jill Drill Dozer, Geist and the Magical series would be pretty good games for Nintendo to flesh out more of their franchises.

Good news that ARMS is rising up in popularity due to Smash. Brings a smile to my face knowing that a Nintendo Franchise is doing well.

Do you mean "revive" as in literally bring these franchises back from the dead, or just give them one last chance to show up in a Smash game?

 

[Nazyrus]

It's that time again to reset the clock every day of the week with people asking about smash on every nintendo tweet, lol. It's been a while… Playing XCDE to kill time on my end.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Do you mean "revive" as in literally bring these franchises back from the dead, or just give them one last chance to show up in a Smash game?

Bringing them back from the dead and hopefully turning them into mainstays. Showing up in Ultimate or any future Smash installment is just a bonus.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Bringing them back from the dead and hopefully turning them into mainstays. Showing up in Ultimate or any future Smash installment is just a bonus.

I mean, I can appreciate wanting to see them realized one last time in Smash as we've seen characters like Banjo & Kazooie get absolutely beautiful returns to the spotlight... but whole revivals of entire games are tough and expensive. It'd be nice if we saw it more often with those IPs, but Nintendo rarely does it even with Smash pushing things. ARMS works a little better because its a brand new game that's still readily available and had only fallen off for a couple years, whereas something like Golden Sun or Sin & Punishment hasn't really been seen in a decade and it's a lot harder to make that relaunch a reality.

I'm totally with you conceptually, but I just don't know how realistic it is to expect Smash to be able to do this sort of thing very much (and let's see if ARMS manages to actually have any legs this time or not).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Bringing them back from the dead and hopefully turning them into mainstays.

Unfortunately, this... isn't something I expect to see any time soon.

When a franchise dies, it usually just stays dead for one reason or another, often a lack of success. And when a franchise DOES get a revival, it might not even have started as such but instead a result of things changing during development.

Kid Icarus is a good example, having started as an original IP from Sakurai before having had many franchises under consideration, including Star Fox, before eventually being a Kid Icarus game.

Another "revival" is Fire Emblem, but Nintendo had no intention of reviving the franchise. In fact, Awakening was supposed to be the very last game of the franchise before it would join other dead franchises, but that game did very well and gave the franchise such a strong second wind that it just... suddenly became a very successful series from Nintendo. In other words, the franchise got very lucky.

And I'd say a big reason behind the lack of revivals is likely the risk. When a franchise dies, it's usually a lack of success, so a revival is often a gamble they just don't want to risk.

The exception to that is Mother. That one is dead specifically because Shigesato Itoi is done with the series and will never be revived regardless of demand because it all depends on Itoi.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Unfortunately, this... isn't something I expect to see any time soon.

When a franchise dies, it usually just stays dead for one reason or another. And when a franchise DOES get a revival, it might not even be intended.

Kid Icarus is a good example, having started as an original IP from Sakurai before having had many franchises under consideration, including Star Fox, before eventually being a Kid Icarus game.

Another "revival" is Fire Emblem, but Nintendo had no intention of reviving the franchise. In fact, Awakening was supposed to be the very last game of the franchise before it would join other dead franchises, but that game did very well and gave the franchise such a strong second wind that it just... suddenly became a very successful series from Nintendo. In other words, the franchise got very lucky.

And I'd say a big reason behind the lack of revivals is likely the risk. When a franchise dies, it's usually a lack of success, so a revival is often a gamble they just don't want to risk.

The exception to that is Mother. That one is dead specifically because Shigesato Itoi is done with the series and will never be revived regardless of demand because it all depends on Itoi.

The very least EarthBound could get is a continuity reboot, obviously without Itoi at the helm. Even then it wouldn’t be the same

I do think F-Zero has enough demand for a revival, just that Nintendo seems to have trouble figuring out how exactly to approach it

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The very least EarthBound could get is a continuity reboot, obviously without Itoi at the helm. Even then it wouldn’t be the same

Without Itoi, I think Mother would lose a lot of its spirit.

I do think F-Zero has enough demand for a revival, just that Nintendo seems to have trouble figuring out how exactly to approach it

Wasn't that an excuse they threw out for the Wii U GamePad?

 

[Glaciacott]

I personally don't get the need to see every franchise ever be alive and kicking. Like, I remember playing Geist when it came out. Turns out it kind of sucked and devs rightfully never really tried again. I don't mind that property dying, it happens to a ton of games.

Then there's stuff like Eternal Darkness, where the team that made it no longer exists. Would nintendo giving the IP to someone at random really revive it? I would argue at that point it wouldn't really be eternal darkness anymore.

I think it's more important that games remain accessible in some way or form so that anyone in the future can play them, but outside of that I don't think the companies that make games should keep everything they've touched alive and kicking. It's fine sometimes for a game to exist and not be a franchise or a live game. And it's not like Nintendo is exactly lacking in ongoing properties to pay attention to, nor is the world lacking in indie companies filling in existing gaps (like that one company doing the f-zero like game, or Wargroove filling the niche left open by Advance Wars.)

Lastly, some games just exist under different circumstances. What sucks about Golden Sun, iirc, is not that it died as much as that it didn't really end. Wasn't that game supposed to be a trilogy? See, for that it's unfortunate that it stopped existing. Mother 3, meanwhile, was an excellent endpoint for the Mother series and adding more games to that property for the sake of it is unnecessary. Just release Mother 3 globally instead.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"Dead franchises" are always a tricky topic.

It's strange because even if an IP doesn't get a new game, it still has value as long as re-releases happen.

It's because of this that I don't truly think some IPs like Earthbound, F-Zero, Golden Sun, Pilotwings, Punch Out!! and Kid Icarus aren't truly dead. Interest in the IP is known, so if a dev wants to they can make another one. We saw that happen with Kid Icarus and Punch Out!! once before.

Meanwhile IPs that got completely left behind like Geist and Drill Dozer may never be seen again. Those are the ones that are true no hopers.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Honestly, I think Nintendo would revive a lot more franchises if they saw a way to gauge public willingness to buy.

Or maybe they don't do Gamecube virtual console because then they'd be forced to admit that the fans and the money think Thousand Year Door is better than the new stuff.

 

[fogbadge]

At this point I just want more first party Nintendo characters added to Smash and wanting lesser known franchises to be revived by Nintendo.

Golden Sun, Eternal Darkness, Battalion Wars, Excite Truck, Sin and Punishment, Elite Beat Agents, Disaster: Days of Crisis, Advance Wars, F-Zero, Chibi Robo, Punch out, Kid Icarus, Pilot Wings, Wave Race, 1080 Snow Boarding, Nintendogs, Mother/Earthbound, Zangeki no Reginleiv, Jill Drill Dozer, Geist and the Magical series would be pretty good games for Nintendo to flesh out more of their franchises.

Good news that ARMS is rising up in popularity due to Smash. Brings a smile to my face knowing that a Nintendo Franchise is doing well.

nintendo will never let chibi-robo die

 

[Guybrush20X6]

nintendo will never let chibi-robo die

I think Chibi-Robo's in a comparable position to Kirby in the Gamecube era where there's not been a proper main game in ages and they keep using the brand for experimental spin-offs like Photo-finder and Zip-lash.

Is it too much to ask for an HD Chibi-robo game in the style of the original? That way we can see the dust mites and take the fight to them!

I'm hoping ARMS gets the sequel treatment to iron out the kinks and flesh of the parts that were lacking. First and foremost, give us fully voiced Biff and not his underwhelming simlish.

 

[kirbsmash]

I'm hoping ARMS gets the sequel treatment to iron out the kinks and flesh of the parts that were lacking. First and foremost, give us fully voiced Biff and not his underwhelming simlish.

Sadly, they did that because his voice is different in each languages. His voice is deep in Engish but it's not in Japanese.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Honestly, I think Nintendo would revive a lot more franchises if they saw a way to gauge public willingness to buy.

Or maybe they don't do Gamecube virtual console because then they'd be forced to admit that the fans and the money think Thousand Year Door is better than the new stuff.

Not just TTYD but imagine Switch online GCN and they released all 4 of the GCN Mario Party's. They know all of those are 1,000 times better than anything ND Cube has crapped out since they got their hands on the IP. You make those games readily available to everyone then it makes the new Mario Party at $60 a tougher sell.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

We're in June, guys and gals!

 

[NOSTARSICK]

I can't wait to see who it is

 

[Guybrush20X6]

We're in June, guys and gals!

And we're getting the first lot of Nintendo news soon. Granted it's for Pokemon S&S's expansion pack but still, hope it's the first of many.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ansion_pass_news_teased_for_tomorrow_2nd_june

 

[NOSTARSICK]

And we're getting the first lot of Nintendo news soon. Granted it's for Pokemon S&S's expansion pack but still, hope it's the first of many.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ansion_pass_news_teased_for_tomorrow_2nd_june

I can't wait for that either honestly, or for the ps5 news this week! After the really crappy weekend I had, I need something like this week

 

[fogbadge]

We're in June, guys and gals!

ive been in june for ages

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As far as I see it, the best chance for lesser used first-party IP characters to get in is if enough fans do this:

Demand, loudly.

That's how we got and , mainly. Doesn't matter if it'll have to wait until sometime after Ultimate's support ends. As much as we expect companies to go to Nintendo to ask about character inclusion, fans should do the same.

We're in June, guys and gals!

Yeah, this month should be looking packed with news, even if not all of them are too exciting.

Only time will tell.

But regardless, at least the 3rd party purists can shut up now.

Yeah, was misinterpreted to a ridiculous extent. All this hullaballoo over someone simply saying we were getting newcomers.

 

[Dukefire]

Just remember this from Sakurai as the final preparations for the ARMS newcomer.

It could be Helix or someone else past popularity, but that is part of Smash Speculation before the Boss shows the results

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Just remember this from Sakurai as the final preparations for the ARMS newcomer.

It could be Helix or someone else past popularity, but that is part of Smash Speculation before the Boss shows the results

Always did, always will. Unfortunately not everyone does, so constant reminders like this are needed.

 

[Dukefire]

Also, Nintendo is starting to show official news starting with updates on Pokémon SWSH Isle of Armor.

Spoiler: Announcement

Serebii Update: The next Pokémon Sword & Shield Isle of Armor news is to be revealed tomorrow, June 2nd, at 13:00 UTC. Details @ https://t.co/gDbXkHSvkT pic.twitter.com/BuriNpMcDf

— Serebii.net (@SerebiiNet) June 1, 2020

Interesting or not for you, there is hope that the Smash News will happen soon. It is just the matter of when

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Just remember this from Sakurai as the final preparations for the ARMS newcomer.
View attachment 273421

It could be Helix or someone else past popularity, but that is part of Smash Speculation before the Boss shows the results

it could also just be anyone aside from Spring Man or Ribbon Girl specifically, since those two are on the cover of ARMS and if they don’t play ARMS they won’t know who the others are

(which is why I’m leaning toward Min Min)

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Just remember this from Sakurai as the final preparations for the ARMS newcomer.
View attachment 273421

It could be Helix or someone else past popularity, but that is part of Smash Speculation before the Boss shows the results

Yeah, this quote seems to have been forgotten quite quickly. This quote alone is why I'm hoping for Coyle, gameplay wise. I feel like it's a character that even could borrow more from Dhalsim in Street Fighter (beside the obvious reach, there's teleports, yoga fire and yoga flame like moves with her Lokjaw, the way she is floaty and could be a lightweight like Rosalina and Mewtwo as a way to counterbalance her reach...). Incineroar borrows from Zangief and Alex so...

I still do think we will end up with Min-Min though (which I'm fine with), between the party crashes and especially the "special request" mentionned by Sakurai.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Just remember this from Sakurai as the final preparations for the ARMS newcomer.
View attachment 273421

It could be Helix or someone else past popularity, but that is part of Smash Speculation before the Boss shows the results

Keep in mind in the same direct, he was still showing off the character who's the face of Fatal Fury and SNK, not a random KoF character like Chin.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

"Dead franchises" are always a tricky topic.

It's strange because even if an IP doesn't get a new game, it still has value as long as re-releases happen.

It's because of this that I don't truly think some IPs like Earthbound, F-Zero, Golden Sun, Pilotwings, Punch Out!! and Kid Icarus aren't truly dead. Interest in the IP is known, so if a dev wants to they can make another one. We saw that happen with Kid Icarus and Punch Out!! once before.

Meanwhile IPs that got completely left behind like Geist and Drill Dozer may never be seen again. Those are the ones that are true no hopers.

It's a shame because Drill Dozer got Assist Trophy back in Brawl but got cut in Smash 4. You think they would rerelease that game on Switch Online or the Virtual Console sometime ago because of this.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Still kinda funny to think that ARMS was considered "dead" to most of the world.
Just because something doesn't pull in Colladooty numbers doesn't mean it's a failure.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Still kinda funny to think that ARMS was considered "dead" to most of the world.
Just because something doesn't pull in Colladooty numbers doesn't mean it's a failure.

Exactly! Just look at the Shantae franchise for example. The first game was kind of obscure for years and the rarest Game Boy Color game and WayForward brought the series back in full storm with Risky's Revenge on the DSI 8 years later. It's amazing how much the Shantae franchise has grown when it was so small when it started.

 

[MattX20]

Regarding sales, Smash Ultimate as of the end of March of this year has sold nearly 19 million copies worldwide. It would certainly help give ARMS a second chance/revival in public interest once the fighter is actually revealed

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Exactly! Just look at the Shantae franchise for example. The first game was kind of obscure for years and the rarest Game Boy Color game and WayForward brought the series back in full storm with Risky's Revenge on the DSI 8 years later. It's amazing how much the Shantae franchise has grown when it was so small when it started.

Shantae is a good example of a game coming into it's own when the world was ready for it. It's also the only indie to be in base Ultimate that wasn't directly published by Nintendo at any point.

Now if only the first game would get a slightly less clunky remake.

 

[fogbadge]

As far as I see it, the best chance for lesser used first-party IP characters to get in is if enough fans do this:

Demand, loudly.

That's how we got and , mainly. Doesn't matter if it'll have to wait until sometime after Ultimate's support ends. As much as we expect companies to go to Nintendo to ask about character inclusion, fans should do the same.

doesnt always work though, poor isaac

Keep in mind in the same direct, he was still showing off the character who's the face of Fatal Fury and SNK, not a random KoF character like Chin.

you wouldnt have thought so with the way the community reacted

Still kinda funny to think that ARMS was considered "dead" to most of the world.
Just because something doesn't pull in Colladooty numbers doesn't mean it's a failure.

isnt it about the 20th best selling switch game?

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

My interpretation of the ARMS game being "dead" stigma more came from the fact that Nintendo dropped support of it very quickly (at least compared to Splatoon and Mario Tennis Aces) , it didnt take off at all in the e-sports scene (something Nintendo was pushing for), and the online playerbase became pretty baron.

However ARMS is far from a "failure" in terms of sales. 2 million plus for a New Fighting game IP is not bad at all. Also the character designs are top notch which is probably one of the reasons we are getting an ARMS character in Smash. I would love to get an ARMS sequel that expands upon the lore, gameplay, and mechanics.

Also one thing ARMS didnt fail at like a lot of other Nintendo games (including Ultimate) is the online play. ARMS still remains the best/smoothest online 1st party title to date (Tennis Aces is a close 2nd).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If even 10% of all people who bought Smash Ult got fighter pass 2 then that's another 2 million in exposure.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Still kinda funny to think that ARMS was considered "dead" to most of the world.
Just because something doesn't pull in Colladooty numbers doesn't mean it's a failure.

The turnover rate of young and/or new consumers tends to be really fast. It's why you occasionally see recycled plots in TV shows, for instance.

Also, it didn't even have amiibo. The only amiibo I saw for it was all fan-made, from what I could tell.

doesnt always work though, poor isaac

At least there's a plan B for that one.

However ARMS is far from a "failure" in terms of sales. 2 million plus for a New Fighting game IP is not bad at all. Also the character designs are top notch which is probably one of the reasons we are getting an ARMS character in Smash. I would love to get an ARMS sequel that expands upon the lore, gameplay, and mechanics.

I think the main issue with not knowing lore is that the planned tie-in Dark Horse comic has been WIP for years.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I don't know why certain people would assume Arms was a failure when it was a new Nintendo IP that sold over 2 million copies on it's first game.

 

[Dukefire]

ARMS is a great game, but it got overshadowed by Breath of the Wild and Smash Ultimate during it's first year

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

ARMS is a great game, but it got overshadowed by Breath of the Wild and Smash Ultimate during it's first year

And Splatoon 2, don't forget.