Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
ah
yeah im not keen either
tell me about it
I think that Joker is extremely poorly represented in Smash, and him only having Arsene is part of that.
I think him only having Arsene is fine.
If they could pull off Hero with four different models, with voice acting for the four, and all those spells he got, I think they could have done multiple Persona.
The difference between that and the Personae is that each Persona is functionally different, not just visually. Implementing Arsene took enough resources as is, and adding others like Beelzebub or Mara would've meant we had to wait longer for him.
Remember how everyone in Persona 4 Arena had one Persona, whether they have Wild Card or not? Yeah.
Given that the Hero could've had eight different models were it not for time constraints, I think it would've been either multiple Heroes or multiple Personas. Both is unrealistic.
Arsene isn't much in the way of resources, he's just a model that follows Joker around. If Personae did give him a different change in moveset in Smash, then yeah, totally, but as it stands Arsene isn't much different than one of Shulk's arts.
I don't think it was a lack of trying either, but it's clear that Sakurai had a gameplay idea that Joker only broadly fit, and he made it happen anyway. If he can do that with Joker he can do it with ARMS as well.
The problem with this argument is that Sakurai still kept stuff that made sense for Joker to do.
This. I've had people told me how the Weapon Triangle "didn't matter" thanks to Three Houses, and look what happened.
In general, Sak tends to be much more respectful to guest characters. Meanwhile, Nintendo doesn't mind him messing with their own toys, especially since the Mario cast semi-constantly changes up their gameplay and portrayals like vaudeville actors in their own series anyway.
I still love the irony of Byleth wielding the triangle.
Number 2 still seems better than what they did to Joker. At least those would still be things that you can do in ARMS and not made up whole cloth.
Aside from using guns and grappling hooks (and even then, the second one is only in Royal), what can Joker do on his own?
I could honestly see Nintendo being the one to outright force the idea of alts to bring as many characters as possible rather than a Sakurai idea, ngl.
Thing is, the four heroes all share the same animations, whereas multiple Personas couldn't.
That's a fair point. So far we haven't seen Nintendo ideas, FP1 seems like they generally appealed to Sakurai with their choices for the most part (while still being buddy-buddy with other companies at the same time), FP2 could be when they show their hand.
Reminds me of the theory of Cendrillon supposedly being designed with Smash in mind...and we have yet to see Kasumi make any sort of appearance in this game, months later.
i thought Kasumi was more due to the Jane ponytail thing?
Yes, that too, but Persona fans did still read into Cendrillon having a design that's similar to Arsène.
On his own? Just that, and shooting. But he's never on his own. Joker's weird because it's like having a Pokemon Trainer whose moveset consists mostly of throwing Pokeballs and potions and riding a bike, and sometimes a Charizard spawns behind him and makes those attacks stronger.
So?
Which would likely apply to Persona as a whole, and despite this, we got games like Persona 4 Arena.
Pretty much his depiction in Smash is what Joker is capible of doing: He's highly acrobatic (Arsene has very high agility, meaning Joker will dodge attacks more often than the other party members), uses swift strikes with a knife, and occasionally uses a gun.
I agree with your point that most gauges are inaccurate, and that it's usually in the service of the moveset. When that's the case, it doesn't bother me (Mac though, they could definitely have gone for something more faithful for him). But those characters already had those gauges/mechanics as part of their game. With Joker they completely made it up, and can at best be traced to one thing that happens once in a cutscene and isn't tied to gameplay at all.
That doesn't make it completely innaccurate or bad representation. Just a really loose interperetation based on something that does happen in the game.
Fair enough...
It hasn't already?
Misango's Spirit could function as a Down B in Smash. It changes colors constantly, cycling between red, blue and yellow, and can turn into a pillar when Misango shields for long enough. Misango can absorb the spirit by using Down B and wear it like a mask, giving it different attributes like Shulk's Monado Arts. Red increases his weight values and buffs his throw attacks but reduces his speed and jump height, blue functions like Acceleratle and increases ground speed, air speed and jump height but makes him lighter and nerfs throw attacks, yellow decreases movement speed and throw attack power, but passively charges a Rush Attack and can auto-block attacks while he's rushing. He removes the mask if he presses Down-B again or is hit with a strong-enough attack.
Nah. The poll we got in this thread is a poor indicator of it, that's for sure.
typical
I don't think them having glove-type ARMS is the only good argument because most of the cast has that already. As long as we keep the idea of the ARMS being extendable, the lack of proper boxing gloves isn't too much of a detriment, imo.
It would probably be the series symbol regardless of who we get.
