Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[meleebrawler]

This is fine all and all, but we're in an odd position where Spring Man currently being an AT has put absolutely everything into question. Is it him or Springtron as the shoo-in, or did they decide to say "screw it" to tradition and do something different?

I mean, it must have taken balls to even accept in the first place. It feels like this round of DLC is steadily sliding down into "anything goes".

Thing is, even just going with Springtron would still be technically bucking the tradition of always adding the main protagonist first.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Thing is, even just going with Springtron would still be technically bucking the tradition of always adding the main protagonist first.

Yeah, though he'd technically be "close enough".

Some tradition is going to break soon, and we don't know which one. It's like finding a needle in a stack of needles.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I could see Spring Man being promoted and Springtron taking his role as an assist.

You know, I wonder if they might not feel the need to make a replacement ARMS AT. The promoted assists don't really have replacements, as you no longer need a randomly appearing character to see boxing, a Pokemon shooting flames, Phazon being shot at your opponents, or in this case extendible arms during a Smash fight.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, I wonder if they might not feel the need to make a replacement ARMS AT. The promoted assists don't really have replacements, as you no longer need a randomly appearing character to see boxing, a Pokemon shooting flames, Phazon being shot at your opponents, or in this case extendible arms during a Smash fight.

Don't forget about someone tossing healing items at you.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Don't forget about someone tossing healing items at you.

I couldn't really think of anything for Isabelle.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At any rate, the whole prospect seems a little daunting to do for a smaller team compared to the base game.

Promoting an AT one game after the fact is one thing, but this would seem a little more off-the-cuff even by the game's standards.

 

[Dorayaki]

I think the problem about the promotion theory is, NIntendo did actually pay efforts to do the asisst trophies. If they did't want to waste the efforts, they sure were able to create more assist trohpies along with the fighters as long as they're different.

For now we don't have a new Punch-Out assist trohpy which is indeed kinda boring. AC at least hired a bus driver to carry the fighers.

 

[SmashChu]

At any rate, the whole prospect seems a little daunting to do for a smaller team compared to the base game.

Promoting an AT one game after the fact is one thing, but this would seem a little more off-the-cuff even by the game's standards.

I believe I mentioned it in this thread but the problem promoting AT in the same game is that it affects people who don't have the DLC. For ARMS, it's probably easier to pick someone else and have Spring Man stay the AT. It also allows them to experiment and they can pick a character they think people will like rather than just going for the main guy. Regardless, other ATs don't have an easy replacement and adding him just means you remove an assist trophy. Unlike costumes and spirits, it's much harder to work around this.

 

[Guynamednelson]

is that it affects people who don't have the DLC

You don't know that. For all we know the AT will still have a chance to spawn if no one's playing as Spring Man.

Wouldn't be the first time a DLC character really feels like they were added after the base game either. The intro is supposed to showcase the complete roster, but once Piranha Plant was added it can't.

 

[SwitchButton]

So what tracks you guys want remixed? The FE guy only got one remix so I'm not sure how many we're gonna get. Hopefully more since ARMS is a fresh IP

For me it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWlFEx3ETQ&t

 

[GoodGrief741]

The other question is, would they really be willing to dedicate all those resources into doing that and hope something else doesn't break in the process?

It seems like the easy solution, but it's hard to know if that's even the actual outcome. Especially since doing that would basically cause the more vocal people to aggressively demand more AT changes.

If the character is Spring Man, it would be nice to know if the whole teaser thing was done in an in-universe sense, otherwise it's hard to see the point of doing all that setup anyway.

I agree that. We cannot know whether there are system issues with DLCs adding codes to change the base game process, keep assuming that doesn't seem respectful to the programmers.

Problem remains that why that result didn't already happen in the base game with Springton appears as an assist trohpy so that it wouldn't cause contradictino when Spring Man joins. Similiarly, if Issac has the chance to be a fighter, I'd wish that Jenna was the assist trohpy in the base game so that I can have Issac and Jenna fight together.

A texture swap is not something that screws with code that much, hell it's so basic that mods can do it without much effort.

I believe I mentioned it in this thread but the problem promoting AT in the same game is that it affects people who don't have the DLC. For ARMS, it's probably easier to pick someone else and have Spring Man stay the AT. It also allows them to experiment and they can pick a character they think people will like rather than just going for the main guy. Regardless, other ATs don't have an easy replacement and adding him just means you remove an assist trophy. Unlike costumes and spirits, it's much harder to work around this.

How does Spring Man being a fighter affect the people who don't buy him? Whatever the change might be that happens to people who buy him, it won't be applied to the people who don't.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So what tracks you guys want remixed? The FE guy only got one remix so I'm not sure how many we're gonna get. Hopefully more since ARMS is a fresh IP

Does it need the remixes though?

Yeah, Byleth only got one remix, but it doesn't matter when the overall soundtrack of 3H is still a banger, especially the songs that made it in Smash.

I could see ARMS be treated similarly, especially since...

1. Most songs in ARMS are remixes of the main theme already, so making a remix of a remix...
2. ARMS is a fighting game. By definition, its soundtrack already fits in Smash as is.

I think we'll get a remix of the main theme, an unremixed main theme, all 15 original stage tracks and maybe a Hedlok theme or two.

 

[NOSTARSICK]

So what tracks you guys want remixed? The FE guy only got one remix so I'm not sure how many we're gonna get. Hopefully more since ARMS is a fresh IP

For me it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWlFEx3ETQ&t

I'd love Via Dolce to be in the game (remix or not)

 

[Sigran101]

I understand a lot of the arguments against assist trophies being upgraded, but can we please please PLEASE stop saying "They can't just upgrade one, because then fans of other assist trophies will be upset that theirs wasn't upgraded". That's literally the case for every ****ing character they add. Has there ever been a character reveal where people weren't upset that it wasn't their most wanted? You can't please everyone, and smash fans being babies about it isn't a reason to withhold content that would otherwise be made.

 

[Dorayaki]

A texture swap is not something that screws with code that much, hell it's so basic that mods can do it without much effort. .

It's base game content so I doubt that you can swap it, it's like I sold you a bacon sandwitch, but I gave you the wrong food, I must call you back to exchange the right food, unless I have the superpower to convert your food, For video games, it'd sure need coding to change the process.

As mentioned that we're not programmers so we're not the one to determine how easy it is. Still, the time and effort could better be kept to do more game contents than the programming job.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It's base game content so I doubt that you can swap it, it's like I sold you a bacon sandwitch, but I gave you the wrong food, I must call you back to exchange the right food, unless I have the superpower to convert your food, For video games, it'd sure need coding to change the process.

As mentioned that we're not programmers so we're not the one to determine how easy it is. Still, the time and effort could better be kept to do more game contents than the programming job.

Base game content has already been changed for people who have DLC. If you buy certain Mii Costumes, certain Spirit battles are different than how they are for people who don't.

And it doesn't take much programming knowledge to know that a texture swap doesn't take long. I wouldn't even expect them to do that though, just deactivate an AT when the character is in play. Which is extremely easy, and again has already been done.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Base game content has already been changed for people who have DLC. If you buy certain Mii Costumes, certain Spirit battles are different than how they are for people who don't.

And it doesn't take much programming knowledge to know that a texture swap doesn't take long. I wouldn't even expect them to do that though, just deactivate an AT when the character is in play. Which is extremely easy, and again has already been done.

Well that depends. Flipping a switch is easy, but there needs to be a switch to flip in the first place. We know that they've got conditionals linked to stages but they may need to impliment one for character picks, which would have to take tag Smash into account.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Well that depends. Flipping a switch is easy, but there needs to be a switch to flip in the first place. We know that they've got conditionals linked to stages but they may need to impliment one for character picks, which would have to take tag Smash into account.

Gray Fox says different things if Snake is present, so there has to already be code for ATs to be affected by what fighters are there.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

Be lying if I said I wouldn't feel bummed out if it was Spring Man (or just him anyway). Nintendo teasing with so many possible characters and they go with the obvious box art mascot? Why raise so much chatter then? If they had just announced him off the bat during that Direct, it wouldn't bug me and I wouldn't have minded then if it was Spring Man. It's why I think it's either actually someone else or it's a Bowser Jr situation like others have said.

 

[Garo]

So what tracks you guys want remixed? The FE guy only got one remix so I'm not sure how many we're gonna get. Hopefully more since ARMS is a fresh IP

For me it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWlFEx3ETQ&t

I'd be fine even with no remixes, but the tracks I absolutely want to see added in one form or another are:

DNA Lab
Sparring Ring
[NAME REDACTED]
Replay
Sky Arena
VS Hedlok (Grand Prix)

 

[Spatman]

I voted for her. Not because she is my favorite pick but I do think she has a decent chance. At this point I'm thinking its less likely than I initially thought but I'm sticking to my choice


Personally, I was kinda starving for a reveal of some kind so this is realistically the most I could have hoped for
Now we get to the other fun part, figuring out what their moveset is gonna be like. Kinda hype to me.

mmm, but why? I mean, we already knew they were working on something new, we already knew they would have been other 6 characters, and now even if they did that announcement we don't know who the character will be, how he/she will work and we must wait other 2+ months (more or less the same quantity of time passed bewtween Byleth reveal and this announcement)

I really can't see from which point of view this announcement was good

 

[fogbadge]

i wonder if we'll get new spirits for fighters who already have one, seems unlikely but its possible isnt it?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

i wonder if we'll get new spirits for fighters who already have one, seems unlikely but its possible isnt it?

Fighter Spirits, definitely. Regular spirits... unless they got actual alternate canon outfits I doubt it

 

[Garo]

i wonder if we'll get new spirits for fighters who already have one, seems unlikely but its possible isnt it?

My guess is the current ARMS spirits will get a permanent spot on the ARMS Spirit Board alongside all the new additions. Maybe they'll also get more fitting conditions (music etc.) like the Cuphead spirits if the ARMS content allows for it.

Speaking of spirits, DLC legends have always had a unique effect so I wonder what the ARMS legend will give. I kinda hope it's grab range up as the only way you can currently increase that is to train a spirit in Zangief's Dojo.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Base game content has already been changed for people who have DLC. If you buy certain Mii Costumes, certain Spirit battles are different than how they are for people who don't.

So far, this only happened with the Cuphead Spirit, iirc. But would they go back to the hundreds of base game fights to change a handful of them?

Sounds like a recipe for a gigantic mess if they make even one mistake...

And it doesn't take much programming knowledge to know that a texture swap doesn't take long. I wouldn't even expect them to do that though, just deactivate an AT when the character is in play. Which is extremely easy, and again has already been done.

To say that it would just be a texture swap is a disservice to Springtron. They'd make his whole model from scratch and rearrange the lighting because he's made of metal, not skin, and they only way that part can be done quick is by half-assing it, which is very unlike what Sakurai's team has done so far.

The actual "switch" to swap Spring Man for Springtron might not take that long, but everything else will.

Gray Fox says different things if Snake is present, so there has to already be code for ATs to be affected by what fighters are there.

Being fair, that's not a new detail. That's a carryover from Brawl.

Yes, the code exists, but that doesn't mean they'll do anything with it because they haven't done anything with it for over a decade at this point.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Maybe we should just consider that they'll go for the simplest solution possible; ignore the AT completely and pick the next best thing.

Who that is? I have no bleeding clue, as long as it gets everyone to stop talking about it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

My guess is the current ARMS spirits will get a permanent spot on the ARMS Spirit Board alongside all the new additions. Maybe they'll also get more fitting conditions (music etc.) like the Cuphead spirits if the ARMS content allows for it.

Speaking of spirits, DLC legends have always had a unique effect so I wonder what the ARMS legend will give. I kinda hope it's grab range up as the only way you can currently increase that is to train a spirit in Zangief's Dojo.

The terror of Melee Marth's Grab range may yet return.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The terror of Melee Marth's Grab range may yet return.

At least, we'd be able to visually see the nightmarish grab instead of having someone use the Force

 

[Trevenant]

The terror of Melee Marth's Grab range may yet return.

With 10x more ending lag too.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, let's just say that battles on the Bridge of Eldin will suddenly get much harder.

 

[GolisoPower]

So what tracks you guys want remixed? The FE guy only got one remix so I'm not sure how many we're gonna get. Hopefully more since ARMS is a fresh IP

For me it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWlFEx3ETQ&t

I would want the Temple Grounds theme, and the Max Brass Hedlok Battle theme to be remixed.

 

[fogbadge]

as long as it gets everyone to stop talking about it.

like thatll ever happen

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

like thatll ever happen

I mean in the sense of "at least people won't need to guess who it is anymore".

As it is right now none of us can agree whether it is Spring Man or anyone else.

 

[TheZoologist]

Have been thinking a lot about what they could do with an ARMS fighter and seeing people's reactions and who they want to be represented in it, I personally think (and hope) the way they're not flat out saying who it will be and showing the whole ARMS roster, they're gonna go the Bowser Jr./Inkling/Hero route and have an 8-in-1 fighter with Spring Man breaking the obviously-fan-made rule of Assist Trophy means no chance as playable and be upgraded to the main fighter of ARMS with Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Min Min, Kid Cobra, Twintelle, Helix, and Dr. Coyle as alternate forms given their similar body types, so four male and four female alts like the Inklings. The most popular characters from ARMS are already represented as an Assist Trophy and Spirits and given Sakurai's choices in the past, it seems strange he'd go for a character not already representing ARMS in Smash, so I'm fairly confident ARMS will have multiple characters represented in one fighter for maximum fan service and ease of play. What this means for future DLC is anyone's guess if Spring Man makes the leap from Assist Trophy to playable, but I'm really hoping all 8 of these characters, especially Spring Man who's design and style I really like, are the characters chosen for Smash. In fact, I think it could be possible they replace Spring Man's Assist Trophy with Springtron and it would still work just fine, and with the big 8 represented as playable characters, that would leave the other crazier designed characters like Master Mummy, Mechanica, Byte & Barq, Max Brass, Lola Pop, Misango, and even Biff to be represented as Spirits. I've been stoked for ARMS to be represented in Smash ever since the first reveal trailer, even though I haven't played the game, I really dig the style and designs of the characters, and was super bummed when Spring Man was just an Assist Trophy. It seems silly for a Nintendo fighting IP outside of Smash to NOT have playable representation in Smash so I hope it's represented well. It'll be cool having an official boxing match between Little Mac, Ryu, Terry, and *unnamed ARMS representative* in the Boxing Ring, and I personally feel this makes up for Fire Emblem getting yet another representative.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean in the sense of "at least people won't need to guess who it is anymore".

As it is right now none of us can agree whether it is Spring Man or anyone else.

i dont think any of us would be able to agree regardless of AT spirits or costumes in the game

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Obviously...

Alright, new question that elaborates on a point from earlier.
So, assuming that the ARMS fighter(s) can fit into having 's body type being used as a base, which ones would fit this reasonably, regardless of gender?

Twintelle notwithstanding.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I mean in the sense of "at least people won't need to guess who it is anymore".

As it is right now none of us can agree whether it is Spring Man or anyone else.

Even without Spring Man being an AT, I could see us debate whether it's Spring Man or not because of that guessing game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Obviously...

Alright, new question that elaborates on a point from earlier.
So, assuming that the ARMS fighter(s) can fit into having 's body type being used as a base, which ones would fit this reasonably, regardless of gender?

Twintelle notwithstanding.

Min Min, probably

 

[GolisoPower]

Obviously...

Alright, new question that elaborates on a point from earlier.
So, assuming that the ARMS fighter(s) can fit into having 's body type being used as a base, which ones would fit this reasonably, regardless of gender?

Twintelle notwithstanding.

Yeah, I'mma have to agree with Rie here. Min Min seems to fit Bayonetta's body type.

Speaking of which, we know Bayonetta's being used for an ARMS character, but I'm curious as to what the Wicked Weaves would have to do with it (since the 7.0.0 glitch involved those). I mean, it seems most likely to me that WIcked Weaves would be used in some way for the ARMS stretchy attacks, but for some reason, I just don't see how they match up.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Obviously...

Alright, new question that elaborates on a point from earlier.
So, assuming that the ARMS fighter(s) can fit into having 's body type being used as a base, which ones would fit this reasonably, regardless of gender?

Twintelle notwithstanding.

Well the other ones who could fit the bill of adult woman would be Dr. Coyle and Lola Pop. (not sure how old Ribbon girl is but I'm sure ti's late teens.)