Confirmation: Floating Ball of Doom Spotted (frame data)

[Veril]

How did you come up with an advantage of 0 for autocanceled nair? Is the 7 frame shieldstun on the final hit a typo (that's quite a bit for vBrawl shieldstun)?

FH is way too variable with FF and fall direction to be able to use the frame data reliably.

Just find the maximum non FF FH duration.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It's the shield hitlag plus shield hitstun. I did it the way 3god did it.

 

[Veril]

That's silly. Almost as silly as counting hitlag in move duration (like the Jiggs frame data thread does)...

If you list shieldhitlag, why would you than add that to shieldstun... they aren't the same thing. It makes no sense to me. Add the SHLD to shieldstun, that actually is useful.

The way you define shieldstun ("the period of time, immediately after Shield Hitlag") suggests that you would not have added SHL to it. You should change that. Its completely pointless and misleading to add SHL (which doesn't affect adv) to a variable that is used specifically to calculate advantage on block.

Good s*** otherwise. :D

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Alright, I just did what 3God did, Ill fix that as soon as I get to an actual computer.

 

[Veril]

Thank you. I'm probably gonna use some of your shieldstun data since powershield-stun in B+ is identical to the shieldstun in normal brawl.

I'm surprised at how much shieldstun d-tilt has.

Do any of his moves have a SHLD?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Just try not to shield poke with dtilt, it's worse on hit XD.

I'm not so good with abbreviations, what does SHLD stand for again?

 

[Veril]

What does SHLD stand for again?

shield-hitlag differential: The difference between the attacker and defender shield-hitlag.

Just try not to shield poke with dtilt, it's worse on hit XD.

lol I don't use Lucas in vBrawl. He's terrible.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

IIRC Usmash has SHLD, but it's so terrible most ways you won't be noticing in match. I don't have any data on the differential.

 

[prOAPC]

Just find the maximum non FF FH duration.

yeah, i thought about that to, but i didn't say anything because i don't know much about that stuff

lol I don't use Lucas in vBrawl. He's terrible.

what did Jiggs do to you?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

:/

It's a not very useful IMO. But I can try to gather that info later.

 

[Levitas]

so what's the consensus? you guys want this stickied?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Of course I would, but lets see what everyone else thinks

 

[Levitas]

so what's the consensus? you guys want this stickied?

Of course I would, but lets see what everyone else thinks

the irony here is mind boggling.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

The fact that a Wobbuffet is talking is even more mind bottleing.

 

[prOAPC]

sticky please

 

[rPSIvysaur]

So I was really perplexed as to the numbers I had arrived at earlier so I took another look at d-tilt. It turns out that Lucas doesn't go into hitstun meaning SHLD. I'm testing it right now.

lol, I forgot to subtract the two when I changed them all. BUT IT STILL HAS A S***LOAD OF SHIELDSTUN. I went into frame by frame again and found that it had 5 frames of shieldstun. Jeeze. BTW, it still has the -3 frame advantage (really, really good, if you did this to Lucas' shield, Lucas can't do ****).

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I just got some new info up on Lucas' Jump (including full-hop).

I also got a new section that has Lucas' D-tilt on hit advantage, it's not pretty.

 

[prOAPC]

58 frames for full hop? :S i needed at least 2 more for what i was planning
now that i read it again, you are missing the specials -.-

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Specials are special

You also have to remember that specials can change your vertical speed. That's why I hate specials.

BTW, PK Fire takes 53 frames to complete.

 

[HailCrest]

especially for lucas where all his specials change his vertical speed/momentum lol

did you put the yellow circle hitbox data for PK fire and thunder and magnet in?

 

[Levitas]

58 frames for full hop? :S i needed at least 2 more for what i was planning
now that i read it again, you are missing the specials -.-

Do it on a slant.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

BTW, what were you going to try APC? The more I look at Lucas' PKF, the more I'm sure it gives him a slight boost upwards, which would explain alot why he gets a signifigant boost from ZJ as compared to Ness.

 

[Levitas]

BTW, what were you going to try APC? The more I look at Lucas' PKF, the more I'm sure it gives him a slight boost upwards, which would explain alot why he gets a signifigant boost from ZJ as compared to Ness.

Look at lucas's DJ animation. He starts off flipping iirc, and the PK fire prevents that. If the "jump" uses directions anchored to lucas's body as forces propelling him up, then maybe they have two forces that are meant to be in opposite directions at different times that would now be in the same direction because he doesn't go upside down.

That's just a guess, of course. All that's clear is that whatever prevents him from going up is on frame two of his double jump.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I doubt that Levi, upward moment isn't anchored to any specific bone that is rotated when Lucas jumps, instead it is mapped to his TransX IIRC which doesn't rotate, but shows the position of Lucas' body. And when Lucas is bound to the air, his TransX bone stays in the same spot and it switches the to the engine for aerial movement. I think that since Lucas' and Ness' second jumps are momentum based if you interrupt their double jump while their getting the momentum boost from it. Then it seems that Lucas has something special to his side-b that it could be a multiply the height Lucas gets from double jump.

 

[HailCrest]

I saw before in a theory that Lucas' ZJ was because his double jump was combined of a strong upward force and a less strong downward force that caused him to have his bouncy DJ trajectory. PK Fire can be used to cancel small amounts of upward momentum so I think it gives a very weak downward force. Using it in conjunction with Lucas' DJ would replace his DJ's downward force with PK Fire's weaker downward force, leaving the upward force free to wreak lots of havoc, i.e. a good as hell recovery.

Though I saw this theory 9 months ago and I'm not sure whether it's been disproven yet.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I smell BS. I have legitmate facts to back mine up.
Edit: Well more of a good understanding of how Brawl mechanics work.

 

[prOAPC]

yeah, i read that too hailcrest

i'm writting all posibilities that Lucas can do in a single full hop, including aerials and specials, i don't have my own wii, so i have to do it with only theory, and then practice it when i play at my friend's home

 

[Veril]

You should figure out the exact adv formula for d-tilt on those characters... for me. That would be awesome.

I figured out the adv formula against a few characters in B+, and comparing the two is interesting to me cause I'm lame like that (been working towards understanding hitstun for like, the last 7 months)... obv its not completely perfect cause kb and hitstun are calculated after damage is applied but w/e

Y-intercept: -7 (B+)
Bowser: 0.05769x (5 @ 208)
Luigi and Mario: 0.06190x (6 @ 210, 6@ 211)
Peach: 0.06403 (6 @ 203)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOtwomIykVE

Lucas' Hitboxes.

 

[HailCrest]

awesoomeeee

dtilt has slightly less range than ftilt, which has more range than fsmash and the same range as dsmash 3rd hit!

ledge getup has huuuuge disjoint

psi magnet is tiny; only about twice the radius of the white circle

pkt2 has pretty good disjoints on the sides of lucas' body.

you also forgot 100% ledge attack and getup attacks btw.

how did you get into single player?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

**** ledge attack above 100. How the **** am I supposed to get above 100 to be able to do it when I can't hurt myself. Also, I can't my self go into tumble .

 

[prOAPC]

use a CPU or a friend

psi magnet's sucks :S i don't know why i love that move that much lol

 

[HailCrest]

get a custom stage with spikes and magnet right after you get hit with one until you have 100%. problem solved, lol

psi magnet rocks because magnet pull gives that "SURPRISE, BIZZOTCHES" range. Kinda like dacus.

... oh i wish lucas had dacus

 

[Yink]

So...sorry this is going to seem really weird but, why is this thread a sticky? Shouldn't you just include it in your Index of Important Threads?

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

I have requests.

like reallly important requests.

Can you add.

-shiled drop advantages for all moves
* i.e. for dair autocancel advantage would be -9, Shield drop advantage for would be -2
* nair AC would be 0, shield drop would be +7.
* dtilt has -3, shield drop +4
-The amount of hitstun done when you hit the opponent with a move. I'm sure there is a formula for it somewhere. I think I saw Shaya post it.
-powershield adavantages
* dtilt advantage would be -3, but on Powershield I think it becomes -8? I'm not too sure how that works. I think the opponent recieves no shield stun but still recieves hit lag, and there's no shield drop lag?
- For the hitbubbles is there a way you can get Lucas' hurtbox shaded one color, and the hitbbox another? So we can measure the disjoint. preferrably contrasting colors.

i think thats all i want atm lol. It's not that much tbh. well the hit stun thing and hurtbox thing might be :O

Edit: I lied. I would also like Dair [on hit] frame advantages @ 0, 20, 40, 60. and I need to know if they change depending on how stale the move is. I can do alot if I learn these things ._.

I'm trying to make a guide.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Sure thing boss.
I'll do it as soon as I can.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Yeeeee. I can't wait :D

Though I expect it to take a month or so @_@

 

[KoozyK]

Bumped...
This thread needs to be worked on to look a little better. no offence rocket

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Holy crap this thread is old.

 

[KoozyK]

i know right, i want some gifs in here -_-