Confirmation: Floating Ball of Doom Spotted (frame data)

[HailCrest]

The entire middle circle.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

The entire middle circle, however, it has been determined w/ PSA that when you sweetspot back air someone when they are on the ground, it will only do 10 damage, whereas if you get them in the air, you do 12 damage.

 

[HailCrest]

Hey, how do you get information on hitboxes and stuff? I'd like to see the hitlag of each hitbox and knockback power and angle (relative to other moves, just to compare) but I don't want to trouble you to do it since you seem busy enough as it is, and also it's the holidays for me and I'd like to have something to do lol. I think I'd be able to see it, since I have homebrew channel with Gecko and stuff.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Woah, it's the holidays?

 

[orange/xd]

When you're in 'in lucas's upsmash', anything is possible.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I have the pac and am playing around with it now. I can get a video up if no one else is able.

Also, yeah, I'd like to see magnet, pkt/2 hitboxes, too. I know the last pkt2 box is GIANT

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yeah, I think I might make a .pac for his jab, grabs and specials thanksgiving break

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

Yeah, I think I might make a .pac for his jab, grabs and specials thanksgiving break

Dang, spending break time on Lucas?
Someone get this guy a medal.

<3 RocketPSIence

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Psh, I'd be doing so much more for Lucas if I didn't have school... Hell, If I didn't have school, I'd probably try to figure out how to hex so I would be able to show the hitbox on the PK Moves. I'd also collect a whole bunch more data too, such as D-throw to U-tilt percents w/ DI

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

Psh, I'd be doing so much more for Lucas if I didn't have school... Hell, If I didn't have school, I'd probably try to figure out how to hex so I would be able to show the hitbox on the PK Moves. I'd also collect a whole bunch more data too, such as D-throw to U-tilt percents w/ DI

I know what you mean. I did it for the dtilt combo percents. It was cool doing research-y things for my main.

 

[Veril]

DON'T BE LIKE LEAF! READ THIS SO YOU UNDERSTAND THE FORMULA POSTED
Lag on throw =[First actionable frame (ie, the frame a shield would first appear on) •w - Release frame •w]

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: each of the values modified by weight must be rounded up in order to calculate lag. Merely multiplying base lag by weight mod will NOT always or even often give you the correct value. w=1 for a set value throw, or the characters weight if its ∂W.

Lucas
f-throw (∂W): initial hitstun = 57 ----- lag = [53-23=30] ----- 10 dmg
b-throw (∂W): initial hitstun = 57 ----- lag = [53-20=33] ---- 10 dmg
u-throw (∂W): initial hitstun = 47 ----- lag = [55-25=30] ---- 10 dmg
d-throw (∂W): initial hitstun = 42 ----- lag = [50-41=9] ------ 7dmg

Hitstun values are for Brawl+ 5.0, which probably is useless to most of you. "doesn't care"

Release frames are important because that reflects the amount of time the opponent has to DI. Choice reaction time is ~15 frames; keep that in mind.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Since it's Brawl+ I don't think it needs to be added to the OP...

 

[Veril]

Don't be dense. Only the hitstun values are for B+. The lag formula should be accurate for normal brawl.

I wouldn't have posted it here if it was only applicable to B+. It would have stayed in the wbr with most of my other research... Actually I was compelled to post it after seeing the awesomeness that is this thread. Kudos on the hitbox data. I will probably nab the pictures for moves that went unaltered.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Oh, I really didn't understand the formula at all so I just assumed it was Brawl+ stuff. Sorry it it came across as 'dense'. Anyway, if you could PM about how to work with the formula more in depth, it would really help this guide even more.

 

[Veril]

The anatomy of a throw is pretty much the same as it was in melee.

Hopefully this will help:

choice reaction time (frames) = the number of frames an alert and attentive player will able to react and respond to... whatever, in this case its recognizing the throw used and choosing how to DI vs. reading DI and following up. The typical choice reaction time is 15 frames. The upper limit is ~12 (pro-level reflexes).

ROF = release on frame. This value is important because it is the window in which the player being thrown can recognize the throw and choose to DI.

FAF = first actionable frame. Uh, fairly self-explanatory. The first iasa frame after a throw.

lag = frames between ROF and FAF. This is a double edged sword. It lowers the advantage and reduces the combo window, BUT it also represents the time in which the thrower can read DI and choose their response to combo.

advantage at 0 = Hitstun - lag when throwing a character at 0% damage. This is the combo window, probably the most important value. Its important to note that growth rates vary across the cast (highest for Jiggs, lower for FastFallers)

∂W = weight dependent throw. This means that the FAF and ROF are both modified by the character weight value. Many thanks to Magus for providing me with those. <3

lag = [FAF - ROF = base lag]. Lag is variable on ∂W throws. All Lucas's throws are weight dependent. If you want I can post charts.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

That would be excellent

 

[ZMan]

its a good thing we have psience in the community otherwise. we are all too lazy to do **** like this (or at least i am)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Hey guys, after Dekar's post about the frame data stuff, I think I might update this to look nicer and to include more info...

 

[prOAPC]

i want videos and/or gifs

 

[Yink]

Dang, spending break time on Lucas?
Someone get this guy a medal.

<3 RocketPSIence

He DOES deserve a medal. We were talking on AIM last night and even when doing that he was working.

I've never seen someone so determined to keep working on it. You Lucas mains should be so proud to have him <3

 

[rPSIvysaur]

:D Thanks Yink.

 

[Yink]

So Lucas mains, rPSI is kind of forcing me to make graphics for you guys, it's kind of cruel and unusual.

Spoiler

No I'm just kidding, but he asked me to make a banner for this thread. keke

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I will use Ness as slave labor

Spoiler

JK <3 Ness 4Ever

 

[HailCrest]

ifz u dun git da banna aut bai 2day i iz guna whipz ya

well jk but i seriously want to see it, yink's hell good with art

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Does someone think that they could make some .gifs for the hitboxes? I'll also ask in the Workshop or Ike boards (b/c they already have .gifs :grumpyface: )

 

[HailCrest]

Does someone think that they could make some .gifs for the hitboxes? I'll also ask in the Workshop or Ike boards (b/c they already have .gifs :grumpyface: )

The Ike board's animated gifs take a hell long time to load, and besides no one wants to do the dastardly 120 frames for usmash :x

 

[rPSIvysaur]

T.T

I guess so, but I also need to make a new .pac that has all the moves.

I guess I'll just try to get someone to make a video for Lucas.

Anyway, I'm updating it as of now. Tell me what you think about the colors.

 

[prOAPC]

where are the pics?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'm reworking it right now

The .pac before was messed up so I hope to have someone make a video instead. If you still want to see the pictures just visit my Photobucket account. http://s261.photobucket.com/home/mapler227

 

[orange/xd]

This is gonna look ****** (bad***)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Alright guys I have almost all of the frame data done. It's almost time for the video: HYPE IT UP!

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'm going to hurt those people that are making my Dazzle take forever to get here

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

>_<

Dazzle should hurry

 

[prOAPC]

i still don't see the pictures T_T where are they?

can you give me the frame data for jumps? FH and SH? Please *_*

and, according to the data, if i'm frame perfect, which combinations of double aerials/specials can i use with a single full jump?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Dazzle still on back-order, sorry, I asked someone to help me make a vid.

SH is 33 IIRC, FH is way too variable with FF and fall direction to be able to use the frame data reliably. And you should be able to know what Lucas can do in a full hop.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Assuming you can dair and still have time to DJ, then you could find a rough estimate of FH frames.

Uhh

Why isn't this stickied?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I don't know why it isn't, I guess I could ask Levi to do it.

 

[HailCrest]

is the latest .pac up on your mediafire? i can record a pretty low-quality video for it, but it can only be up by next weekend (assuming i'm not swamped with stuff on a weekend olololololol)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Nah, Id rather have a higher quality vid. I'll probably ask more people.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Kirks making the video for us, XD.